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Analysis 12.15 - 10.28= 1.87 Teraflops difference between the XSX and PS5 (52 CU's vs. 36 CU's)

Bogroll

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Is the 1.87 TF power difference (at best for PS5) more than it appears as the TF's are more lets say powerful in RDNA2 than GCN ?
In old money(GCN) were talking a difference of around 3.5-4 TF at a guess.
 

MaulerX

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"On the other hand, the PS5 is quite less powerful than the Xbox Series X when it comes to the CPU and especially the GPU. Not only is the official TFLOPs count quite different (12 for the Xbox Series X and 10.28 for the PS5), Sony's next-generation console is also using variable frequency on both CPU and GPU, unlike Xbox Series X.

This means that the CPU frequency won't always be at 3.5 GHz and most importantly the GPU frequency won't always be at 2.23 GHz,
which would be insanely high. In fact, our hardware team (who's crafting a deep dive analysis right now) at Wccftech believes the usual clock could be well below that frequency, leading to a much lower TFLOPs count."
 

Jigsaah

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Seems reasonable.

That's why I think the "war" has only just begun.
And it's gonna be more interesting as well. Current-gen was a bit boring as far as competition's concerned.
Here's another thing I just thought of though and pardon the qualifiers here. Let's imagine that people are not like me and aren't going to buy both regardless (I know, impossible, right?). Let's say that a significant percentage is going to go PS5 or Xbox. If people favor Xbox but don't have a Series X budget, they have the S to fall back on. I would imagine this means that Sony would have to price from $399 to $449 at the most to provide a deterrent to people jumping ship by giving a familiar price. I guess both companies are doing that now that I think about it. There are of course other factors and its not that simple. I think over the past 20 years though, the gaming community, including more casual players, has matured into a set of ways. This may prove to be the biggest barrier to break and one that favors Sony considerably.
 
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Pallas

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"On the other hand, the PS5 is quite less powerful than the Xbox Series X when it comes to the CPU and especially the GPU. Not only is the official TFLOPs count quite different (12 for the Xbox Series X and 10.28 for the PS5), Sony's next-generation console is also using variable frequency on both CPU and GPU, unlike Xbox Series X.

This means that the CPU frequency won't always be at 3.5 GHz and most importantly the GPU frequency won't always be at 2.23 GHz,
which would be insanely high. In fact, our hardware team (who's crafting a deep dive analysis right now) at Wccftech believes the usual clock could be well below that frequency, leading to a much lower TFLOPs count."
Harder for developers? I thought we heard nothing but glowing reviews from developers about the the PS5.
 
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The Github leak was true.

PS5 is using 9.2tflops, they've increased the clock speed to the Max at 10.28 TFLOPs, and the CPU as well. When playing games on PS5 you won't be getting the exact number of 10.28Tflops, it'll be in the 9.2tflops to 10.28Tflops range.

Also on PS5 you probably be only getting Basic Ray Tracing since it relies on higher CUs, while Xbox Series X hasn't boost any clock speeds, it has 12Tflops and 52CUs. On Xbox Series X you can expect more advanced Ray Tracing.
 
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Psykodad

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Ahhh man I wish these wars would just end lol

It’s just with the general consumer, they aren’t really focused on the general specs(though tflops may matter to them now, idk) like we are. Price is probably the most important detail for them, well that and if it can play their games smoothly.
Lol nah man, the wars are the fun part. Every couple of years, a full year of shitposts, memes/jokes and speculation.
We will have to wait 6-7 years before this happens again. Lol

But yeah, price is very important, even more so with the recession.

Here's another thing I just thought of though and pardon the qualifiers here. Let's imagine that people are not like me and aren't going to buy both regardless (I know, impossible, right?). Let's say that a significant percentage is going to go PS5 or Xbox. If people favor Xbox but don't have a Series X budget, they have the S to fall back on. I would imagine this means that Sony would have to price from $399 to $449 at the most to provide a deterrent to people jumping ship by giving a familiar price. I guess both companies are doing that now that I think about it. There are of course other factors and its not that simple. I think over the past 20 years though, the gaming community, including more casual players, has matured into a set of ways. This may prove to be the biggest barrier to break and one that favors Sony considerably.
Don't forget the recession due to corona as well.
 
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The Github leak was true.

PS5 is using 9.2tflops, they've increased the clock speed to the Max at 10.28 TFLOPs, and the CPU as well. When playing games on PS5 you won't be getting the exact number of 10.28Tflops, it'll be in the 9.2tflops to 10.28Tflops range.

Also on PS5 you probably be only getting Basic Ray Tracing since it relies on higher CUs, while Xbox Series X hasn't boost any clock speeds, it has 12Tflops and 52CUs. On Xbox Series X you can expect more advanced Ray Tracing.
Yup, you didn’t watch the actual video either.
 

sinnergy

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2nd incoherent video after DF, imo, the hardware sounds to exotic, it still sounds like a mess to me. Sony really scrambled to get somewhere near series X in the end.

I think the velocity architecture in Series X where developers have 100 gig available instantly for assets is a much more elegant way of doing things .

Also the lack of VRS is worrying.
 

Roxkis_ii

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"On the other hand, the PS5 is quite less powerful than the Xbox Series X when it comes to the CPU and especially the GPU. Not only is the official TFLOPs count quite different (12 for the Xbox Series X and 10.28 for the PS5), Sony's next-generation console is also using variable frequency on both CPU and GPU, unlike Xbox Series X.

This means that the CPU frequency won't always be at 3.5 GHz and most importantly the GPU frequency won't always be at 2.23 GHz,
which would be insanely high. In fact, our hardware team (who's crafting a deep dive analysis right now) at Wccftech believes the usual clock could be well below that frequency, leading to a much lower TFLOPs count."
Lead systems architect says the ps5 will run in boost mode a majority of the time, but I guess he was lying and these people who aren't working on the ps5 are right. 🤔
 

Shmunter

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2nd incoherent video after DF, imo, the hardware sounds to exotic, it still sounds like a mess to me. Sony really scrambled to get somewhere near series X in the end.

I think the velocity architecture in Series X where developers have 100 gig available instantly for assets is a much more elegant way of doing things .

Also the lack of VRS is worrying.
Don’t have time to watch, no vrs confirmed on PS5?

But regarding the velocity etc. PS5 is definitely a gen ahead in their ssd approach. Not much to dispute here, at least on paper.
 

Bryank75

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"On the other hand, the PS5 is quite less powerful than the Xbox Series X when it comes to the CPU and especially the GPU. Not only is the official TFLOPs count quite different (12 for the Xbox Series X and 10.28 for the PS5), Sony's next-generation console is also using variable frequency on both CPU and GPU, unlike Xbox Series X.

This means that the CPU frequency won't always be at 3.5 GHz and most importantly the GPU frequency won't always be at 2.23 GHz,
which would be insanely high. In fact, our hardware team (who's crafting a deep dive analysis right now) at Wccftech believes the usual clock could be well below that frequency, leading to a much lower TFLOPs count."
I wouldn't worry about it, Xbox series X is only getting cross generation stuff for a few years.... and Xbox devs are not that great.

If PlayStation can get GOW, Horizon and Bloodborne out of a 1.84 tflop PS4... I'm pretty excited thinking what they'll do with over 10!

Plus the X is bottlenecked, the high end ram is only 10 gigs, the other 6 is way slower and it doesn't have a super fast SSD to make up for the difference.... was just watching a video that explained where some of the efficiencies are coming from.

PS5 doesn't need to fill it's Ram, it will basically be able to read almost off the SSD directly cause it's so fast.
 
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2nd incoherent video after DF, imo, the hardware sounds to exotic, it still sounds like a mess to me. Sony really scrambled to get somewhere near series X in the end.

I think the velocity architecture in Series X where developers have 100 gig available instantly for assets is a much more elegant way of doing things .

Also the lack of VRS is worrying.
So you listened to Cerny, listened to DF, and somehow you still think Sony scrambled to get close to XSX? LOL
 
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sinnergy

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Don’t have time to watch, no vrs confirmed on PS5?

But regarding the velocity etc. PS5 is definitely a gen ahead in their ssd approach. Not much to dispute here, at least on paper.
As I recall the ms solution seems to have lanes dedicated to the velocity architecture handeling assets like a cartridge basically given you 100 gig extra ram, imo they’ll even out.
 
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All I know is that he legitimately downplayed TF's even before he got to the GPU talk. At that point everyone knew it was less powerful.
lol He didn’t downplay TFs. He as well as Richard and John in the DF video said the same thing insiders had been saying for months; TFs don’t tell the whole story and trying to use them as some measure of power is a fool’s errand. Hell, I just saw early today on Twitter a dev who had 22 AAA games under his belt stretching from Nintendo to Sony to MS laughed when someone tried to throw TFs in his face. He said no one in the industry uses TFs to compare power. That says it all.
 

Ralf

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Greetings for all "insiders" from GAF and ERA!!.

Github > "insiders"

Exactly. Some people are jumping through hoops today trying to downplay/damage-control this. Variable frequency isn't a good looking choice.
Variable frequency is fucking nightmare for developers. Too many compromises and restrictions.
 
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Maxwell House

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Lead systems architect says the ps5 will run in boost mode a majority of the time, but I guess he was lying and these people who aren't working on the ps5 are right. 🤔
Lol, what would you expect the lead engineer at Sony to say? He is downplaying the obvious power difference with PR speak. He screwed up royally with his design choices. The PS5 is going to run loud and hot while outputting less graphic muscle than the Xbox Series X. Guarantee if Cerny could go back in time 18 months the PS5 would have way more than 36 CUs.
 
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sinnergy

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lol He didn’t downplay TFs. He as well as Richard and John in the DF video said the same thing insiders had been saying for months; TFs don’t tell the whole story and trying to use them as some measure of power is a fool’s errand. Hell, I just saw early today on Twitter a dev who had 22 AAA games under his belt stretching from Nintendo to Sony to MS laughed when someone tried to throw TFs in his face. He said no one in the industry uses TFs to compare power. That says it all.
It’s Pro vs X , imo it’s even worse. Sony could have known MS was going in this direction.

See how that turned out.

As of now it’s 320 bit bus vs 256 , 12 GBPs vs 16 GBPs , 3.5 GHz CPU vs 3.6 , 3.8 GHz , 10.3 TF vs 12.1 TF, 52 CU vs 36 for ray tracing , shall I continue, what do you think will happen? Series X will have the best graphics. And that’s what enhances the gaming experience, always have been.

It’s a continuation of cheap checker boarding , tricks to get there.

Sony ffed up, audio is their Kinect 🤣
 
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Maxwell House

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I wouldn't worry about it, Xbox series X is only getting cross generation stuff for a few years.... and Xbox devs are not that great.

If PlayStation can get GOW, Horizon and Bloodborne out of a 1.84 tflop PS4... I'm pretty excited thinking what they'll do with over 10!

Plus the X is bottlenecked, the high end ram is only 10 gigs, the other 6 is way slower and it doesn't have a super fast SSD to make up for the difference.... was just watching a video that explained where some of the efficiencies are coming from.

PS5 doesn't need to fill it's Ram, it will basically be able to read almost off the SSD directly cause it's so fast.
Lol, where did you get this nonsensical bottleneck in the XseX from?
 
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Ralf

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Exactly. Some people are jumping through hoops today trying to downplay/damage-control this. Variable frequency isn't a good looking choice.
Variable frequency will be fucking nigtmare for developers. Too many compromises and restrictions
 
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cyber69

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The Github leak was true.

PS5 is using 9.2tflops, they've increased the clock speed to the Max at 10.28 TFLOPs, and the CPU as well. When playing games on PS5 you won't be getting the exact number of 10.28Tflops, it'll be in the 9.2tflops to 10.28Tflops range.

Also on PS5 you probably be only getting Basic Ray Tracing since it relies on higher CUs, while Xbox Series X hasn't boost any clock speeds, it has 12Tflops and 52CUs. On Xbox Series X you can expect more advanced Ray Tracing.
Agreed. When I play games, I have a Teraflop counter app (top right of my screen) to ensure my 2080 TI is meeting its marketed Tflop count at 13.5.
 
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It Pro vs X , and see how that turned out. 320 bit bus vs 256 , 12 GBPs vs 16 GBPs , 3.5 GHz CPU vs 3.6 , 3.8 GHz , 10.3 TF vs 12.1 TF, 52 CU vs 36 for ray tracing , shall I continue, what do you think will happen? Series X will have the best graphics.
Yeah, you are doing a lot of assuming before real world performance has even been taken into account. Not to mention, you completely forgot Sony’s 1st Party studios and the ICE team. The X being stronger didn’t matter when God of War won Best Technical Design at DICE Awards on 2019. Sure didn’t matter when Death Stranding won again in February 2020. Shall I continue?
 

Bryank75

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Lol, where did you get this nonsensical bottleneck in the XseX from?
It wont apply to most games, particularly 3rd party ones but if 1st party want, they could go to town with huge numbers of assets loading in at once.... a massive city with loads of details and the surrounding countryside etc etc..... it just means that PS5 has to hide less.

Xbox will be very powerful but the assets will not appear on screen as fast or as many all at once I believe.... similar to how spider-man was limited in speed by the loading.

The SSD in the PS5 is like extra Ram... do you get me? They have blurred the line between the two!
 

Roxkis_ii

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How can anyone have a discussion with the constant fud?
All I know is that he legitimately downplayed TF's even before he got to the GPU talk. At that point everyone knew it was less powerful.
Being the most powerful didn't seem to move the needle for the Xbox one x, or win any console generations.

Also, according to the rumors from devs with the dev kits, the power number on paper didn't seem to stem their enthusiasm when actually working with the console.

It seems like really specific users that care about the tflops of each console, but if the games are there, and the price is reasonable, no one will really care......Expect if that tflops number is all you have over your competition.
 

captainraincoat

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the 10tf at peak sounds like it’s a boost mode

Anyone that’s owned a ps4 pro will tell you how great Sony is at bringing in the immersive experience of having a 747 jet in your living room with a boost mode

this things gonna run hot and Sony sucked ass in the physical design of the ps4.....not just once but 3 times.

Im all for a cheaper next gen console but if this thing doesn’t have a decent cooling solution it’s a hard pass
 

sinnergy

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Yeah, you are doing a lot of assuming before real world performance has even been taken into account. Not to mention, you completely forgot Sony’s 1st Party studios and the ICE team. The X being stronger didn’t matter when God of War won Best Technical Design at DICE Awards on 2019. Sure didn’t matter when Death Stranding won again in February 2020. Shall I continue?
We are talking about power, not artistry, but I could have know it all spirals down to yeah better games on PlayStation 🥴
 

cyberheater

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Given how hot this thing will run I’m a bit worried about how much throttling will happen when the thermal paste gives up.
 
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sinnergy

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They never count when you are the one with less of them, sure.
Thats why my 2070super has the same exact performance of a 2080ti, because they are a useless metric...oh wait :ROFLMAO:
Totally useless , just like horse power. When you can have torque 🤣
 

Gamernyc78

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The fuckery is you misinterpreting the context of the comment. High clocks like that need more expensive cooling to avoid what you inferred and thus jives with the possibility that the PS5 might cost the same as Xbox while being less powerful. Or do you honestly think that the possibility of this happening is not there?
No I understood the context of the comment, you just flipped it after a few of us stated tht your point was moot as tht is the reason for expensive cooling 🤦‍♂️

Good shit though lol
 
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We are talking about power, not artistry, but I could have know it all spirals down to yeah better games on PlayStation 🥴
I guess you don’t even know what the DICE Awards are or that the award for Best Technical Design goes to the game with best graphics and that they have a separate award for Art Design, but it’s ok champ, your ignorance is pretty apparent at this point. 👌🏾

They never count when you are the one with less of them, sure.
Thats why my 2070super has the same exact performance of a 2080ti, because they are a useless metric...oh wait :ROFLMAO:
Welp! Ya got me! John and Richard from DF are also liars and complete shills for taking Sony’s money! D dark10x
 
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GymWolf

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I guess you don’t even know what the DICE Awards are or that the award for Best Technical Design goes to the game with best graphics and that they have a separate award for Art Design, but it’s ok champ, your ignorance is pretty apparent at this point. 👌🏾



Welp! Ya got me! John and Richard from DF are also liars and complete shills for taking Sony’s money! D dark10x
Well they got me and ever person in this planet who upgrade his gpu...
 
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Trainsmove

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Lol, it's not enough that they have a 12.1 vs 10.3 scenerio, Xbox fans have to spread even more FUD. Are you guys still that worried about the PS5? Cerny said that the system will be running constantly in Boost Mode, due in large part to their cooling system being able to handle that kind of heat. 10.3 Tflops isn't just a rare occurence. That is what it will run at the vast majority of the time. And it will only downclock slightly if the CPU is demanding more.
Just like when he told you that FP16 meant that it was PS4 pro
8.4tf.
 
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Just like when he told you that FP16 meant that it was PS4 pro
8.4tf.
Sigh. You have no clue what you are talking about do you? I guess with that logic, MS’s claim that the XSX is outputting 25TF of power involving RT is bullshit too right or does that only apply to consoles you don’t like?