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18 minutes of new Final Fantasy 16 gameplay has been published

GymWolf

Member
That looked flashy, visually pleasing but also boring pathethically easy.

I hope the difficulty in that video is journalist level, else I dont see myself ever touching this, at least not full price anyway..

Hopefully we can get a demo
I readed this bit on reee, not sure if the dude readed this in an interview or if it's tale from his ass, from how it is phrased, it seems like something the devs said:

The enemies hang back on purpose. You have to beat the game and play on a higher difficulty for multiple enemies to attack at once. Apparently they didn’t want to overwhelm players.

Total horsecrap if true.
 
Yeah I dunno - I'm a big franchise fan, but if this was called anything else (like Clive: The Journey or whatever) I don't think I'd be interested in this gameplay at all. I've never really liked a character action game and this looks extremely combat heavy and repetitive with sponge-y enemies and non-stop effects and dialogue. Frankly it looks exhausting to actually play.

I'm almost obligated to buy it, just to have an opinion on it, but these gameplay videos don't fill me with a ton of hope...
 

Sethbacca

Member
I readed this bit on reee, not sure if the dude readed this in an interview or if it's tale from his ass, from how it is phrased, it seems like something the devs said:

The enemies hang back on purpose. You have to beat the game and play on a higher difficulty for multiple enemies to attack at once. Apparently they didn’t want to overwhelm players.

Total horsecrap if true.
Why would that be horsecrap? Just play on the higher difficulties if that's what you want? Why are options suddenly a bad thing?
 
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GymWolf

Member
Why would that be horsecrap? Just play on the higher difficulties if that's what you want? Why are options suddenly a bad thing?
Maybe you missed the fact that you have to beat a 50++ hours game once to unlock hard mode.

So the majority of people who only play long ass game once are stuck with retarded enemies and baby mode for the only run they are gonna do because devs don't trust you to chose between hard or normal by yourself.

You are right, this is beyond horsecrap.

There is a small chance that they guy was talking bullshit but knowing past square games, it sound painfully familiar with their modus operandi.
 
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Sethbacca

Member
Maybe you missed the fact that you have to beat a 50++ hours game once to unlock harder mode.

So the majority of people who only play long ass game once are stuck with retarded enemies and baby mode for the only run they are gonna do because devs don't trust you to chose between hard or normal by yourself.

You are right, this is beyond horsecrap.
Ahhhh gotcha. Yep I missed that. Okay then yeah that's definitely horsecrap. All difficulty settings should always be available out of the box.
 

Astray

Gold Member
I have long moved on from Final Fantasy being my be-all, end-all of turn-based JRPG, so I can actually vibe with this.

Stagger seems quite critical in this game, note how the larger enemies barely take damage until it's achieved.

Really like the overall art design and music too. I hope I'm not too busy at work because I think I will play this day 1.
 

hyperbertha

Member
>
Jerking left and right isn't enough. He should be torn to shreds in 3 slashes max.

Again, gameplay > realism

>I know that's not how character action games work, and that's why they have very limited appeal, especially these days

DMCV which came out in 2019 sold over 6 million lol. Not that your argument is relevant anyway, the bottom line is FF16 is meant to have a similar gameplay style and if you don't like it then that's just a you thing.

> As I said before, it looks like the enemies are to be stunted on, not actually fought.

And you're basing this off Clive fighting some basic weak humanoid soldiers and HEAVY units. Yes, the miniboss shown isn't going to be able to hit fast with that hammer it swings around which makes it seem like you're just stunting on them. Let's reserve this judgement when we see more enemy types than just from an 18 minute snippet.

>The solution is simple: Make it harder to hit enemies with that fireball. Make them capable of dodging or blocking it, and make them capable of narrowing the window of opportunity to use it by making them credible threats to Clive.

I don't see why they should need to, it is not meant to be a high damage move. Should fire in the turn based games instakill every enemy because... realism? It's a video game, it isn't meant to be realistic. Should every small fireball instakill an enemy in a video game now? Really reaching with these nitpicks, come on.

>I don't think I need to explain further why that type of thing doesn't appeal to people at face value anymore. The standard has been raised. Screen nukes that aren't even screen nukes don't engage people as much as tactile, lethal and consequential combat does.

This isn't reflective of what your original complaint about enemies "not reacting to it" which you haven't addressed but whatever I guess. You haven't really explained why FF16's combat isn't "tactile" or "lethal" either but i'll entertain this.

There is plenty of tactics that can be applied with all of the Eikon abilities at your disposal. Each Eikon has a different elemental status effect, you can choose which one is best suited against the particular enemy you are facing for one and swap between them instantaneously depending on the situation. You can also swap between 9 command moves(3 Eikons, 3 command moves for each one) to apply the one which best suits the situation. The combat looks very tactical as a matter of fact.

And I don't get how exactly it isn't "lethal" either. There is now a hard 3-6 potion cap unlike FFXV so you can't spam healing items anymore and there isn't a "hold square to dodge endlessly" system like XV so you can easily get hit. Although from watching the footage it is misleading as the player(who is probably experienced as it is one of the devs) is fighting a hammer wielding grunt with extremely easy telegraphs. Against other enemy types besides fodder humans(which is the only other general type of enemy that we saw in the footage), they are going to be much harder to react to and to generally defeat.

>None of that reasoning is going to make those encounters fun. People will just roll their eyes at having to spend 2 minutes per heavy zero out their meters and cooldowns.

Better than 2 minutes pressing attack over and over.

>These are fundamental design choices. Not nitpicks in the slightest.

Complaining about HEAVY enemies not reacting all the time sounds nitpicky as hell to me.
Looking at this thread, atleast 70 percent of comments agree with us. This ain it. I agree with that post. Attacks feel extremely inconsequential. After the likes of elden ring, this kind of combat just doesn't fly. Increase enemy damage greatly, and reduce enemy health bars by 60 percent. That will greatly improve this design. Right now it's entirely reliant on visual spectacle which will get old in 30 minutes.
You bring up devil may cry, but that game doesn't really have damage sponges except for bosses and even then bosses do massive damage and have multiple stages to keep things interesting.
 

The Cockatrice

Gold Member
I readed this bit on reee, not sure if the dude readed this in an interview or if it's tale from his ass, from how it is phrased, it seems like something the devs said:

The enemies hang back on purpose. You have to beat the game and play on a higher difficulty for multiple enemies to attack at once. Apparently they didn’t want to overwhelm players.

Total horsecrap if true.
ron swanson computer GIF


Did they miss the memo about ER being a huge hit? You'd think they would know by now, players love a challenge more than not. Theres only a handful of sissies around here on gaf and outside that cant handle a challenge. I guess it explains the low preorders as well. People noticed the weak combat as well. Eh I have a huge backlog anyway, no rush to get it. PC release sounds better.
 
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supernova8

Banned
Very disappointed the video is not 60fps performance mode. Thing is almost unwatchable to me, all I can think about is how bad the motion looks in it, how does anyone play 3D games like that at those low framerates I have no clue.

Well, a few more weeks until I can see it running properly myself.
Yeah the overdone motion blur + claustrophobic camera + overuse of particle effects made it unwatchable for me.
To be fair I was probably never going to play it anyway but seeing a few seconds of this hasn't done anything to make me want to even try it.
 
Yeah I don’t think so, SE has lost trust this game has received less pre-orders than 15.

This game is basically a final fantasy skinned DMC game where if you equip certain accessories you can play the game with one hand, This isn’t a final fantasy game for the hardcore fans it’s a joke.
Someone isn't paying attention. Those accessories are optional for casuals. The game has already been stated to have a new game plus on day one and two difficulty modes one is reportedly harder than Dante must die. That's as hardcore as it gets.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
I was avoiding watching this because I am on a media blackout... but had to. Now that I have, I have a major little concern.

And I don't know if it's too late for them to actually do something about it.

Its that the combat is too easy. Mostly because the enemies just stay there and wait for you to ki them. You can have the best combos and combat system in the world, but if there isn't that actual sense that you can die or that slight dread when getting into a fight... there will be absolutely no satisfaction. It just becomes mindless button-mashing with no real sense of strategy.

I really wish they made those difficulty settings available from the start. let those of us that want a more challenging experience be able to choose it and pay that way from the beginning. If three hits can kill you from a similarly leveled enemy, and enemies can be relentless, it would make this game 1000 times better.
 

hussar16

Member
That's a good thing lol. You guys just want constant long winded animations for everything and automated tracking?
No we want a product tht looks like it's from this decade. The camera the hud the gameplay all look very outdated early ps3. Look at any third person game today and it looks nothing liek final fantasy. I would say that removing alot of the particle effects might help but I'm no so sure. Ff15 was a step in right direction but then they messed it up
 

iorek21

Member
Man, Ironblood Fanatic took 2 minutes to be killed and there were 3 of them (one being a reskin). The Lich took 3 minutes.

It's a pain to watch and must be even worse to play it since those enemies are barely a challenge. Just imagine have to up the difficulty for a little more challenge and having to fight those things for 5 minutes each.
 
I was avoiding watching this because I am on a media blackout... but had to. Now that I have, I have a major little concern.

And I don't know if it's too late for them to actually do something about it.

Its that the combat is too easy. Mostly because the enemies just stay there and wait for you to ki them. You can have the best combos and combat system in the world, but if there isn't that actual sense that you can die or that slight dread when getting into a fight... there will be absolutely no satisfaction. It just becomes mindless button-mashing with no real sense of strategy.

I really wish they made those difficulty settings available from the start. let those of us that want a more challenging experience be able to choose it and pay that way from the beginning. If three hits can kill you from a similarly leveled enemy, and enemies can be relentless, it would make this game 1000 times better.

I HATE when games withhold a hard difficulty while making normal too easy

Do we know that's going to be the case here for sure?
 

Madflavor

Member
Man, Ironblood Fanatic took 2 minutes to be killed and there were 3 of them (one being a reskin). The Lich took 3 minutes.

It's a pain to watch and must be even worse to play it since those enemies are barely a challenge. Just imagine have to up the difficulty for a little more challenge and having to fight those things for 5 minutes each.

Okay but let's be real, whoever is playing in the IGN footage is playing like crap. I'm not just saying that. There are so many moments in the footage where they're just wildly attacking the air, and even I can tell when they're not using their skills efficiently to down even the more simple enemies. We also don't know what kind of build this person is running, but there's no way it's optimal.

You know this is gonna be one of those games where people are posting videos on youtube of strong builds that melt enemies in seconds.

This could easily be a case of a game that feels better to play than watching. And if that's the case, then IGN is definitely not doing it any favors. I refuse to believe the combat is actually bad when every since single journalist and content creator who previewed the game has said the combat feels great.
 
Looking at this thread, atleast 70 percent of comments agree with us. This ain it. I agree with that post. Attacks feel extremely inconsequential. After the likes of elden ring, this kind of combat just doesn't fly. Increase enemy damage greatly, and reduce enemy health bars by 60 percent. That will greatly improve this design. Right now it's entirely reliant on visual spectacle which will get old in 30 minutes.
You bring up devil may cry, but that game doesn't really have damage sponges except for bosses and even then bosses do massive damage and have multiple stages to keep things interesting.
People on this thread "agreeing" with you doesn't make it right. Argument ad populum fallacy. Even going by this extremely daft NPC drone "most popular opinion must be right!!!" logic pretty much all of the previews said they think the gameplay is great. People like DevilNeverCry who have experience and appreciation for an action game say it's great. Yeah, I think i'll trust that over a bunch of nitpicking salty FF purists, some of whom have never touched an action game.

> Attacks feel extremely inconsequential. After the likes of elden ring,

That's your problem. You're comparing it to Elden Ring and failing to realise not every action game is meant to be like Souls. It's meant to be more like DMC. If you don't like it, fine but don't blame it on the game. It's not for you.

>Right now it's entirely reliant on visual spectacle which will get old in 30 minutes.

An empty statement. I already been over the sheer amount of depth and variety this combat system offers with switchable eikons and being able to use almost a dozen command moves on the fly and being able to jump cancel, air dash and what not. The gameplay system isn't just "visual spectacle" like you keep trying to paint it as. You still haven't provided an actual counter-argument to that and until you do, this statement is invalid.

>You bring up devil may cry, but that game doesn't really have damage sponges

I can tell you never played DMD mode before. Even on HAH Proto Angelo is a sponge.
 
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Madflavor

Member
I think there's also a couple of things people should acknowledge here. First is that sometimes you can't get a real feel for the combat until you actually play it and try it yourself. Starting out a game when you're underpowered, getting used to the combat system, and gradually get better and unlock more power, is not the same as jumping into a combat video and watching Clive light up the battlefield.

Second, a game not being played well can make for a bad showing. You may have seen already in this latest IGN video and the Liquid Boss video that the IGN Japan version is much better, because that player actually knows what they're doing.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Okay but let's be real, whoever is playing in the IGN footage is playing like crap. I'm not just saying that. There are so many moments in the footage where they're just wildly attacking the air, and even I can tell when they're not using their skills efficiently to down even the more simple enemies. We also don't know what kind of build this person is running, but there's no way it's optimal.

You know this is gonna be one of those games where people are posting videos on youtube of strong builds that melt enemies in seconds.

This could easily be a case of a game that feels better to play than watching. And if that's the case, then IGN is definitely not doing it any favors. I refuse to believe the combat is actually bad when every since single journalist and content creator who previewed the game has said the combat feels great.
Honestly, my only issue with the game so far is that it just looks too easy.

That's made worse by the fact that I agree with you that whoever is playing is playing like crap. Cause it just highlights the fact that the enemies pretty much just stand there and watch you hit them. In those 18 minutes, I think I could count only like 4-5 times when the enemy attacked and you had to evade or block.

And I am sure there are those that would love that, but what know I love.. is not just in the game... but apparently seems to be locked behind a full game completion. Now having seen enough of this to see its easy... that pisses me the hell off.

let me be abe to select a harder difficulty from the start.
 
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mortal

Gold Member
The more I see about the gameplay, the more worried I become.

I really want to love this game but... something feels off.

It's been talked to death but damage sponges aren't fun to fight.
Edit: Nevermind misunderstood.
 
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Yeah I dunno - I'm a big franchise fan, but if this was called anything else (like Clive: The Journey or whatever) I don't think I'd be interested in this gameplay at all. I've never really liked a character action game and this looks extremely combat heavy and repetitive with sponge-y enemies and non-stop effects and dialogue. Frankly it looks exhausting to actually play.

I'm almost obligated to buy it, just to have an opinion on it, but these gameplay videos don't fill me with a ton of hope...
seriously. the director's said that the game's 35-40 hours long. that's one helluva lotta flashy beating on low-level sponges...
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
The damage sponge argument is tired…there is a stagger gauge. Use some strategy like the game clearly intends you to do.

Yep. And in most of the official gameplay we see, the devs are clearly not even attempting to do anything to the stagger gauge. They want to show off the fancy animations and attacks/combos without instantly pulverizing the enemies.

As with gaming "journo" footage, take it with a grain of salt. If I listend to gaming "journos" then I would never have played cuphead of DOOM 2016.
 

ProtoByte

Member
The damage sponge argument is tired…there is a stagger gauge. Use some strategy like the game clearly intends you to do.
Yeah, because chewing away at a bar for a canned stagger state whilst doing little to no significant damage is fun, dynamic gameplay design.

Even FF7R has this problem, but it gets more of a pass because attacks don't look or feel as inconsequential as they do in XVI, enemies do actually fight back, encounters don't have nearly as much visual noise, and the flow of combat is much more deliberate. That, and Square is somewhat justified in thinking they need to passify nostalgia whiners by trying to bridge the gap between real time and ATB with that project.
 
Nothing about this game is an RPG. It is a character action game in the style of god of war with some devil may cry animations thrown in for good measure. Traditional JRPG's have a number of mechnic, stylistic, and other things that make them a fairly distinct genre. I like all sorts of games, and have been gaming for over 30 years. This game is a betrayal to the series that has been falling from grace from the JRPG heyday in the 90s and into the early 2000s. The company obviously feels it's flagship property is too niche to compete, in today's market of endless action games, open world games, etc etc, that all feel and play similarly. They have said as much. They have been trending in that direction for the last 2 decades, slowly but surely. They finally just said, the hell with it, and made this entry a full on character action game with some FF skin/tropes thrown on top. You can call anything an action RPG, it's a meaningless sub genre at this point. This is clearly not a traditional FF game or JRPG, because square feels those games cannot be a AAA experience anymore. This is the result. It's a damn shame too.
 
This direction Square Enix is taking this series must be a young person thing, and I just don’t get it. I really hope the rumored FF9 remake isn’t just another action rpg.
Square has made it clear they feel classic JRPGs are back to niche status. It's a shame. I think the genre and this series deserves better than that. So instead they made a character action game in the vein of god of war or devil may cry, with some very light RPG elements thrown in, which most modern titles have. To me, it's a slap in the face to the fans and the series as a whole.
 

cash_longfellow

Gold Member
Yep. And in most of the official gameplay we see, the devs are clearly not even attempting to do anything to the stagger gauge. They want to show off the fancy animations and attacks/combos without instantly pulverizing the enemies.

As with gaming "journo" footage, take it with a grain of salt. If I listend to gaming "journos" then I would never have played cuphead of DOOM 2016.
One word…exactly!
 

cash_longfellow

Gold Member
Yeah, because chewing away at a bar for a canned stagger state whilst doing little to no significant damage is fun, dynamic gameplay design.

Even FF7R has this problem, but it gets more of a pass because attacks don't look or feel as inconsequential as they do in XVI, enemies do actually fight back, encounters don't have nearly as much visual noise, and the flow of combat is much more deliberate. That, and Square is somewhat justified in thinking they need to passify nostalgia whiners by trying to bridge the gap between real time and ATB with that project.
Ohhh, so you’ve played 16? How is it?….nevermind, it’s another believe in “journalist” reviews before I purchase a game type folk. Holler at me after the game sells hot cakes, and then…maybe I’ll respect your opinion before you’ve even laid your hands on the game…probably not though. Because you haven’t actually played the fucking game 🤦‍♂️
 
I’m going to be honest I think this game, by and large, looks so phenomenal (even visually, aside from the character models).

And I’m not trying to be annoying with my shtick. It is (sadly) 100% genuine. But I just cannot be a stan for this game unless I know for a fact that Visual Works (or New Image Studio) CG cutscenes are in. Since Yoshi-P’s interview wasn’t clear. Sigh

9D7dgCb.jpg

Like, look at how beautiful and elegant Jill looks 😭 it’s a good upgrade from her in-engine model.
 
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Agreed 100%, pls square, bring back turn based combat, miss the old good times of been staring at my screen choosing the same skills for 3 minutes to kill a enemie been all leveled up.



This is how a NOT boring combat should look.

I would take this with updated graphics over the devil may cry action game stuff.
 
You just mentioning dmc makes me want to replay 3. I don’t like the new one sadly. I hate v gameplay
Do give 3 a try. It is less focused around constant juggles than 5 and combat overall feels more purposeful.

I got bored of 5 after the 200ish hour mark but 3 still feels exhilirating to this day.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Do give 3 a try. It is less focused around constant juggles than 5 and combat overall feels more purposeful.

I got bored of 5 after the 200ish hour mark but 3 still feels exhilirating to this day.
I finished 3 when it came out. I am saying it’s awesome and I want to replay it
 
I’m going to be honest I think this game, by and large, looks so phenomenal (even visually, aside from the character models).

And I’m not trying to be annoying with my shtick. It is (sadly) 100% genuine. But I just cannot be a stan for this game unless I know for a fact that Visual Works (or New Image Studio) CG cutscenes are in. Since Yoshi-P’s interview wasn’t clear. Sigh

9D7dgCb.jpg

Like, look at how beautiful and elegant Jill looks 😭 it’s a good upgrade from her in-engine model.
Benedikta is the superior waifu!
ApZn2sj.png
 
Do the enemies even fight back? Or are they just there to absorb a million hits from the main character?

This game looks exhausting.
 

ProtoByte

Member
Ohhh, so you’ve played 16? How is it?….nevermind, it’s another believe in “journalist” reviews before I purchase a game type folk. Holler at me after the game sells hot cakes, and then…maybe I’ll respect your opinion before you’ve even laid your hands on the game…probably not though. Because you haven’t actually played the fucking game 🤦‍♂️
Have we not all played enough games to be able to understand what we're seeing?

Relax with the defensiveness. I'm sure the game will score highly and sell well. But there's a reason the excitement and subsequent preorders are lower energy than they "should" be.
 
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