1984 Britain again: New law where clicking on terrorist propaganda once could mean 15 years in prison comes into force

MrTickles

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Feb 22, 2018
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New counterterror laws likened to “thought crime” by a United Nations inspector have come into force.


A raft of new measures mean people can be jailed for viewing terrorist propaganda online, entering “designated areas” abroad and making “reckless expressions” of support for proscribed groups.


The government also lengthened prisons sentences for several terror offences, ended automatic early release for convicts and put them under stricter monitoring after they are freed.




Sajid Javid said the Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Act 2019 gives “police the powers they need to disrupt terrorist plots earlier and ensure that those who seek to do us harm face just punishment”.


“As we saw in the deadly attacks in London and Manchester in 2017, the threat from terrorism continues to evolve and so must our response, which is why these vital new measures have been introduced,” the home secretary added.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/terrorist-propaganda-law-thought-crime-click-link-online-prison-a8866061.html?utm_source=reddit.com

 

DunDunDunpachi

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But how do you know it’s terrorist propaganda until you click on it?
I'm sure Google and Facebook will provide plenty of safe links for you to click.

The real question is why would you be clicking strange links outside of Google and Facebook? Didn't you get written up for "online curiosity" just last month? We've been told this is a pattern of terrorist sympathizers.
 

Breakage

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The British Home Sec talks about the Manchester bombing, but conveniently avoids mentioning that the bomber was rescued from Libya by the British Royal Navy – and up until a month before his rescue, he was being monitored by UK security forces.
 

Kadayi

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It'll be hard to prove intent here, and see this law being gutted quickly.
I guess it will largely depend on involvement. No ones getting sent to prison for clicking on a link, but I dare say if your browsing history revolves around militant extremism that might be regarded as an issue at a guess.

Certainly not defending the law, but some application of context is required here.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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I guess it will largely depend on involvement. No ones getting sent to prison for clicking on a link, but I dare say if your browsing history revolves around militant extremism that might be regarded as an issue at a guess.

Certainly not defending the law, but some application of context is required here.
The issue at hand is that there is no way to standardize or measure "intent".

What if someone is looking up Islamic terrorist groups and studying their doctrine because they can't believe this is a real thing? They need to see it for themselves and they want to judge the doctrine without the filter of media nor State. The best the State can do is infer what they might have done with the information, but no crime has been committed (except thoughtcrime).

When the State turns curiosity into something impolite, something suspicious, something dangerous, the culture dies.
 

Kadayi

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The issue at hand is that there is no way to standardize or measure "intent".

What if someone is looking up Islamic terrorist groups and studying their doctrine because they can't believe this is a real thing? They need to see it for themselves and they want to judge the doctrine without the filter of media nor State. The best the State can do is infer what they might have done with the information, but no crime has been committed (except thoughtcrime).

When the State turns curiosity into something impolite, something suspicious, something dangerous, the culture dies.
Well, ultimately it's up to the courts to determine that. No ones getting 15 years in Prison without an actual trial. The UK isn't Gitmo.
 
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The UK is a Nanny State filled with hypocrisy.

I am pretty sure most Terrorists or those curious will use the Dark Web more if/when they find this out.

If Google/Facebook show dangerous links then that is on them to take them down.

This just legitimises Government control on the public even more.

They do realise that the Neo Nazi Parties also promote terrorism too? Why not monitor those as well?
 

llien

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Feb 1, 2017
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I'm going to just assume this can be applied retroactively e.g "he said this phrase 5 years ago on Twitter, which is now considered a phrase of terrorist propaganda".

Weeee. :messenger_ok:
There is a charter in UN Human Rights prohibiting retroactively applying criminal laws.
 

petran79

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Good luck with various immigrant clashes like Kurds vs Turks over PKK, Indians and Pakistanis over Kashmir rebel groups etc
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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There is a charter in UN Human Rights prohibiting retroactively applying criminal laws.
While this may be true, if in order to convict there must be established a "clear pattern" of interest in so-called "terrorist propaganda", the person's past will definitely be included in such a determination.

So while they might not be convicted strictly based a tweet from 5 years ago, stuff like that will assuredly play a role in any convictions trying to establish the person's guilt.
 

Afro Republican

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In order for you to say 1984 "again" Britain would have had t have a period of American-like freedom which never happened.
 
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I'm sure Google and Facebook will provide plenty of safe links for you to click.

The real question is why would you be clicking strange links outside of Google and Facebook? Didn't you get written up for "online curiosity" just last month? We've been told this is a pattern of terrorist sympathizers.
*hears the sound of thousands of soldiers goose stepping outside of the door to his house*
 
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Taxexemption

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No one is going to jail for clicking on something once, that is horse shit.
They 100% will. Imagine this, you run a small business successfully. Someone who has the power to throw you in jail goes to the same bar as a big business mogul in your industry. They have a conversation, next thing you know, people are looking into your clicks in particular for anything that would qualify as a reason to jail you under these new laws. Next thing you know from one click that wouldn't have gotten noticed otherwise, you are now targeted, your business ruined, and Mr Moneybags now has one less competitor. People get targeted by government regulators who are solicited by private actors and offered bribes all the time. A law that is subjective will be abused by private actors for profit. Such laws ensure that we will live in a world where small groups of powerful interests have unlimited rights while individuals grovel for scraps and live in fear.


If you assume this law will only ever be used by people legitimately trying to stop terrorism sure. It won't. Regulations are used all of the time to target small businesses or individuals that those who are closer to the various sources of government power have issues with.
 

Breakage

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Also Britain; actually JOIN a terrorist organisation and we'll try and repatriate you when you come back.
British taxpayers are set to cover Shamima Begum's legal fees too:

Meanwhile a Christian teaching assistant is sacked for having the wrong views:

 

DocONally

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America does not have any Nazi dogs.

And if we did, we wouldn't jail the owners for the dog's thought crimes.
I don't get it, sorry.

Ah, you mean the pug...

America is slightly better than the UK I admit. I raise my kids with this idea.

(We had Black Sabbath though.)
 

Weilthain

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They 100% will. Imagine this, you run a small business successfully. Someone who has the power to throw you in jail goes to the same bar as a big business mogul in your industry. They have a conversation, next thing you know, people are looking into your clicks in particular for anything that would qualify as a reason to jail you under these new laws. Next thing you know from one click that wouldn't have gotten noticed otherwise, you are now targeted, your business ruined, and Mr Moneybags now has one less competitor. People get targeted by government regulators who are solicited by private actors and offered bribes all the time. A law that is subjective will be abused by private actors for profit. Such laws ensure that we will live in a world where small groups of powerful interests have unlimited rights while individuals grovel for scraps and live in fear.





If you assume this law will only ever be used by people legitimately trying to stop terrorism sure. It won't. Regulations are used all of the time to target small businesses or individuals that those who are closer to the various sources of government power have issues with.
I don't doubt there are nerfarious reasons behind all this, but still no.

Our morning television yesterday was debating about the muslim teenager who ran away to join ISIS. A girl joined a terroist organization and now wants to come back. She doesnt seem like she has any remorse and yet as a nation we are still providing her legal council and I reckon they'll let her back in and give her a council house - despite joining a terrorist group that vows to destroy western civilizsation.

The fact that we are debating such issues on TV where the public are giving every chance to sympathise will this girl using footage of her dead baby etc tells me that the government, corrupt as it may be, isn't ready to throw regular people in jail for up to 15 years for clicking on something by mistake online. Its not going to happen.

I do agree that the powers that shouldnt be would do something like what you described, I just think they would fabricate more than just one website = 15 years. They'd make up some more charges since the public would not go along with it. The aren't ready for that yet. We're at the point where we let terrorist back in the country and while most people don't accept it, so many do for some reason.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I don't doubt there are nerfarious reasons behind all this, but still no.

Our morning television yesterday was debating about the muslim teenager who ran away to join ISIS. A girl joined a terroist organization and now wants to come back. She doesnt seem like she has any remorse and yet as a nation we are still providing her legal council and I reckon they'll let her back in and give her a council house - despite joining a terrorist group that vows to destroy western civilizsation.

The fact that we are debating such issues on TV where the public are giving every chance to sympathise will this girl using footage of her dead baby etc tells me that the government, corrupt as it may be, isn't ready to throw regular people in jail for up to 15 years for clicking on something by mistake online. Its not going to happen.

I do agree that the powers that shouldnt be would do something like what you described, I just think they would fabricate more than just one website = 15 years. They'd make up some more charges since the public would not go along with it. The aren't ready for that yet. We're at the point where we let terrorist back in the country and while most people don't accept it, so many do for some reason.
Jailed for clicking on Islamic terrorism? Probably won't be jailed, sure.

Clicking on 4chan, tho? Clicking on a mirror of the NZ shooter manifesto because you wanted to read it for yourself?
 

MrRogers

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Don't have to imagine, was born there, best country in the world :messenger_horns:
“He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother"