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[2014] Xbox One Indie Parity Clause impacting number of announcements for system

shiftplusone

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Sep 14, 2009
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some of the stuff from PSX was insane to me

like, the number of "heres our game on PC and ps4" with no mention of xbox one was nuts.

Orcs must die was the biggest one for me though. the last 2 were xbox and pc, now they're skipping xbox entirely, and my assumption is because of this clause.
 

Marcel

Member
Feb 16, 2012
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Do indie games every drive console sales? Sales wise, I personally don't think any of those games would be anything to push consoles off shelves.

Content wise, that's great! I'm excited to see all these games come out for PS4. 2015 is looking great!

Indie games now fill in a middleware gap that used to exist. They're usually not meant to drive console sales.
 

sn00zer

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Mar 31, 2009
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What's the unspecified date? Because unless they all get passes, none of them can come out due to the parity clause.

It is likely that many of them may get passes. But this raises another issue. If 'good', or 'desirable' games (by MS' measure) get a waiver for the parity clause because MS want them, that creates exactly the same non-level playing field that was being fought against. Self-publishing becomes a joke if MS can still cherry pick the games they want and effectively block others from the market.

You should probably read the OP. :p

I did, they require X1 exclusive content. This could be a simple as a new enemy type, like Shovel Knight or a new character like Super Time Force. Im saying that while I understand the parity clause sucks and it will have to change in the coming year, a lot of these games could facilitate something as simple as a new character costume, enemy type, "secret area" etc. to get around it.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Sep 29, 2011
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Didn't say that at all, I just don't generally value them as much as middle to high end game projects. They're not worth the asking price on PS4, and I only ever get them for the system when they're ps+.

Fine, a lot of people do buy these games though. Your personal opinion is not at all relevant to the point brought forward by the OP.
 

GeoramA

Member
Jul 23, 2005
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64
1,500
Didn't say that at all, I just don't generally value them as much as middle to high end game projects. They're not worth the asking price on PS4, and I only ever get them for the system when they're ps+.
There you go again, passing opinions off as fact.
 
Apr 9, 2014
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And people keep claiming and claiming the PS4 ha no games.
I was going to say the xbox gamers have adpoted Microsofts vision with the XB1 and indie games and often insult the PlayStation 4 by calling it the indie station and saying it has no games. Would a vast majority on the Xbox One even care to buy indie games?
 

Slixshot

Banned
Jun 21, 2013
6,355
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That's a nice post right there. Happy to have all of the current consoles so I don't have to worry about it, but it really is interesting to think what MSFT will do going forward.

some of the stuff from PSX was insane to me

like, the number of "heres our game on PC and ps4" with no mention of xbox one was nuts.

Orcs must die was the biggest one for me though. the last 2 were xbox and pc, now they're skipping xbox entirely, and my assumption is because of this clause.

I don't think they'd even mention an Xbox port at PSX.
 

Steverulez

Member
Dec 13, 2006
16,951
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1,150
England
steverulez.co.uk
some of the stuff from PSX was insane to me

like, the number of "heres our game on PC and ps4" with no mention of xbox one was nuts.

Orcs must die was the biggest one for me though. the last 2 were xbox and pc, now they're skipping xbox entirely, and my assumption is because of this clause.

The second one wasn't on Xbox, actually. Shame because I loved the first
 
Jun 27, 2010
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Let me know and I'll add them to the list, so long as they fit the criteria and were not announced prior to Sept. 1st. (I'll add Grave as well)

Apologies. I thought a few I came across last month were new announcements, but they all seem to stem back to E3.

Your list is solid.
 

Nightengale

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Jun 12, 2013
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LOL. This guy thinks that by removing an indie game they're going to magically insert a AAA game instead.

I could have sworn that GwG for XB1 was a richness of free AAA games every month.

After all, they have so few of those "not-a-game" compared to the other guy, who apparently loves padding their library with stuff that don't matter.

/sarcasm
 
May 17, 2010
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If Microsoft dropped their parity clause, wouldn't it be a smart business move for Sony to institute one of their own? It's clear indies are choosing the PS4 over the Xbox One with that clause in place.
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Dec 7, 2006
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I did, they require X1 exclusive content. This could be a simple as a new enemy type, like Shovel Knight or a new character like Super Time Force. Im saying that while I understand the parity clause sucks and it will have to change in the coming year, a lot of these games could facilitate something as simple as a new character costume, enemy type, "secret area" etc. to get around it.

No, that clause is no longer an option for XB1. You can no longer add exclusive content to get around the parity clause.
 

Endo Punk

Member
Sep 4, 2011
8,780
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Wait a min... so you're telling me developers are not allowed to release their games for XBL if it's not day and date with PS4 version? They are only hurting their playerbase and nothing else, what kind of logic is this.
 

Doukou

Member
Jul 31, 2014
2,450
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The clause needs to go.

Also minor annoyance but how is stuff like Peggle 2 indie? Indie does not mean digital only.
 

Naughty_Doge

Member
Jul 31, 2014
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This is all so weird coming from the company that put indies in the spotlight on consoles. Between this and that article about not paying their indie developers, MS seems so hostile and careless towards the little guys.

Drop the clause, Phil.
 

Marcel

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Feb 16, 2012
11,276
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If Microsoft dropped their parity clause, wouldn't it be a smart business move for Sony to institute one of their own? It's clear indies are choosing the PS4 over the Xbox One with that clause in place.

I'm sure talk of a new parity clause would get Sony or anyone else a huge PR smack on the mouth, considering how poorly MS' parity clause is viewed by the media, the public and actual indie developers.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
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Wait a min... so you're telling me developers are not allowed to release their games for XBL if it's not day and date with PS4 version? They are only hurting their playerbase and nothing else, what kind of logic is this.

it's from Phil Spencer's GUIDE ON HOW TO TREAT GAMERS LIKE FIRST CLASS CITIZENS™ book.
 
Oct 28, 2014
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"Why not develop for XB1 first?" one of the questions in the main topic.
Are indie devs not complaining about not getting paid for months? That could be one reason as to why...... imo
Dunno about you but when i work in intend on getting paid on time. I can understand sometimes shit happens but some of them have been going on 3 months now.
Thats one reason i think indie devs might avoid the XBOX1
 

Final Verdict

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Mar 5, 2014
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I agree, you shouldn't have to FORCE developers to release on your platform at the same time, you should build your program up where it is so good that they WANT to make publishing on your platform a priority.

Drop it Phil!
 

Skenzin

Banned
Jan 1, 2006
847
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I can see MS side on this issue. With everything else they stacked against themselves, they don't want to be seen as getting 'leftovers'. Sucks for small devs, but as a matter of principal I rarely buy games previously released on other systems. 1) the hype energy is 0. 2) they're usually bad ports handed to outsourced devs for a cash grab. From sales history people rarely buy them anyway.
 

Nightengale

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Jun 12, 2013
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Wait a min... so you're telling me developers are not allowed to release their games for XBL if it's not day and date with PS4 version? They are only hurting their playerbase and nothing else, what kind of logic is this.

You need to get special permission for it,and chances are only if you're a rockstar dev who has something MS is willing to bend their rules for.
 

Version 3.0

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Jun 18, 2005
12,706
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The parity clause is so stupid. But.

I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I really don't care about well over half those games.

Almost all of them are gonna come to PC and I'm gonna ignore almost all of them. Might as well be iOS games (a lot are!). Just nowhere near my radar.

Just not my thing.


What does your personal taste in games have to do with the topic? I doubt I'll play many of these, either, but that's not the issue. The issue (from a customer's perspective) is being denied the choice if you're an Xbox One owner, for no good reason.

chibigans: very nice OP.
 

Nafai1123

Banned
Apr 7, 2008
12,712
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If Microsoft dropped their parity clause, wouldn't it be a smart business move for Sony to institute one of their own? It's clear indies are choosing the PS4 over the Xbox One with that clause in place.

I would argue that it would not be smart business because it would negatively impact relations between Sony and indie developers as well as it's customers.
 

see5harp

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May 12, 2009
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Is the indie clause the real reason that the libraries are so different though? I don't care how MS gets games on the platform, they just need to do it quicker. Dude running ID@XBOX is failing hard and his friends in the press sector need to call him out on it.
 

keit4

Banned
Apr 11, 2009
6,116
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Great read. And i agree, the parity clause has to go. Someone tweet this thread to Phil and Chris Charla.
 

Llamadeus

Banned
Jun 9, 2013
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Does this mean PC wins? I mean you guys have heard about steam sales and humble bundle right?

Nah, who am I kidding. This is fanboy list wars bullshit. Xbox Done amirite??
 

3rdamention

Member
Oct 27, 2006
7,996
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1,005
Great write up! Really gives a detailed and inside look into the process and how the parity clause has been nothing but detrimental. They really need to get rid of it ASAP.



Yeah, this is a very good write up OP! It is quite telling just how many new excited Indie Titles have been announced on PS4 in the past few months, that have not even a hint at an Xbox One release, at least not yet!



Sure, sure, many of these Indie games will eventually come to Xbox One, but people who own both systems, will probably buy it for the system it releases on first. And people who only own an Xbox One, may have to wait months before they get to play certain Indie titles that released on PS4 months ago.


I dont know what is going on with Indies and the Xbox One, if its the parity clause, if its development ease, relationships with the console makers, who knows. But something strange is going on and it is pretty obvious that Independent Developers are choosing the PS4, first, in droves right now.


There is no way to paint this in a positive light!
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
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Is the indie clause the real reason that the libraries are so different though? I don't care how MS gets games on the platform, they just need to do it quicker. Dude running ID@XBOX is failing hard and his friends in the press sector need to call him out on it.

it's a hugely dominant factor, yes. Many in the indie community have essentially sworn off XBO due to it. It's a pretty big discussion point in indie communities actually.
 

PhatSaqs

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Jun 7, 2004
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With free dev tools being given out, theres no way they drop the clause. Devs need to be asking and championing for there to be a way into the ID club by way of loaners/paying for your own dev kits. That way theres a different avenue into the club sans parity clause.
 

ClearData

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Jul 23, 2013
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Indie games are the lifeblood of a console nowadays. Between each drought of AAA titles you have several great games to play. Summer of Arcade was so great back then.

Sony is doing great with content and Nintendo is coming along. But Microsoft should wise up to the needs of indies and not act like such a mega corp throwing weight around.
 

Jomjom

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Nov 26, 2009
11,734
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If Microsoft dropped their parity clause, wouldn't it be a smart business move for Sony to institute one of their own? It's clear indies are choosing the PS4 over the Xbox One with that clause in place.

Huh? You see that STFU announcement with Shu Yoshida as a playable character? That wouldn't have happened if Sony implemented such an idiotic policy.

You know why I didn't feel anything when Below was announced for Xbox One? Because I know soon after it'll release on PS4 with extra content.

Not to mention Kratos in Shovel Knight. That kind of stuff is the stuff I eat up as a Playstation fan.
 

Raide

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Oct 29, 2007
24,342
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MS have Minecraft. As soon as they talk MC plans, it will sell multiple millions of units. Most of the OP lists will be lucky to break a few 100k. Its not all about quantity of indie titles, since so many of the really good ones can get crushed under the weight of the amazing ones that get all the Sony PR push.

I do think MS needs to sort out their weird indie rules sooner than later though. It makes it way more difficult in the coming generations to get good will when they just screw people around now.
 
Mar 7, 2012
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this will open the eyes of the "microsoft is doing great with spencer"

no.they are just doing packs for less money than before and looking to buy new exclusives..if they take game dev seriously as they say things like this need to be fixed asap
 
Jun 27, 2010
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Great read. And i agree, the parity clause has to go. Someone tweet this thread to Phil and Chris Charla.

They know, they've responded to criticisms about it several times. They just don't care...

The only real way to get them to drop it would be for developers to boycott the platform until it's dropped. MS will only respond when it starts to hurt their bottom line.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
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You can't do that - that's exactly what the parity clause prevents. If you release on PS4, you CANNOT release later on XB1.

Wait now, Leondexter. You totally can if the wise and gracious King Phil Spencer hears your pleas and determines you have a really really good reason for not being day and date on XBO (and if your game is "important" enough, they will also make an exception).

Isn't that so kind? Isn't that so sweet? They're so understanding!

Miles Quaritch said:
MS will only respond when it starts to hurt their bottom line.

How is it not? Every game less they receive on the platform is less revenue for them, and they are now receiving HUNDREDS of less games in total. They're just truly daft on this subject.
 

Marcel

Member
Feb 16, 2012
11,276
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Indie games are the lifeblood of a console nowadays. Between each drought of AAA titles you have several great games to play. Summer of Arcade was so great back then.

Sony is doing great with content and Nintendo is coming along. But Microsoft should wise up to the needs of indies and not act like such a mega corp throwing weight around.

360 had a great library of middleware back in the day which is why this stance is confusing to me. They've pretty much squandered the goodwill that they built up.
 

BlackBuzzard

Banned
Sep 23, 2013
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I see it as Microsoft trying to throw around their weight that they don't have. Their plan to bully indie devs into releasing first on Xbox One backfired completely.

If they will ever swallow their pride and kill the parity clause who knows, im just glad it completely backfired.
 

Toki767

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May 8, 2009
35,857
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Wait now, Leondexter. You totally can if the wise and gracious King Phil Spencer hears your pleas and determines you have a really really good reason for not being day and date on XBO (and if your game is "important" enough, they will also make an exception).

Isn't that so kind? Isn't that so sweet? They're so understanding!

Phil knows what's best for first class citizens.