• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

3 Doctors from Harvard, Stanford, & Oxford University speaking out about alternatives to pandemic lockdown policies

Jan 11, 2019
13,633
49,529
1,320
Tokyo, Japan
As experts of infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical, and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection.

“This is the saner approach, the more scientific approach,” the authors tell Freddie Sayers​


Coming from both the left and right, and around the world, we have devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice.

Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed.

Fortunately, our understanding of the virus is growing. We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza.

As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity.

The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk. We call this Focused Protection.

Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19. By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent PCR testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home. When possible, they should meet family members outside rather than inside. A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals.

Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity.
 

poppabk

Member
Jan 21, 2008
12,380
1,336
1,350
USA
Maybe, but we are 2 1/2 months later and have a vaccine, so this is kinda irrelevant at this point.
 

Madonis

Member
Oct 21, 2018
1,499
1,060
365
Most cities/countries have relaxed their lockdowns, with a few exceptions, so I think it'll work out as long as people do take mask-wearing and social distancing seriously until the vaccine is fully distributed.
 

CloudNull

Banned
Oct 14, 2019
1,765
4,660
465
What the fuck are you all going on about? Many states in the US are locked down tight as shit with no intentions of opening back up. My state never opened back up and the economy is totally fucked. My company has now gone backwards and locked down other offices that had previously opened. The next wave of lockdowns is starting even with the vaccine.
 
Last edited:
Jan 11, 2019
13,633
49,529
1,320
Tokyo, Japan
Maybe, but we are 2 1/2 months later and have a vaccine, so this is kinda irrelevant at this point.
This is retarded.
What the fuck are you all going on about? Many states in the US are locked down tight as shit with no intentions of opening back up. My state never opened back up and the economy is totally fucked. My company has now gone backwards and locked down other offices that had previously opened. The next way of lockdowns is starting even with the vaccine.
NPCs.
 

Joe T.

Member
Oct 3, 2004
4,453
7,250
1,770
Montreal, Quebec
Most cities/countries have relaxed their lockdowns, with a few exceptions, so I think it'll work out as long as people do take mask-wearing and social distancing seriously until the vaccine is fully distributed.

US's neighbors to the north:



The majority of Canada just entered hard lock down again, "non-essential" businesses all closed and a return to school delayed.
 
Jan 11, 2019
13,633
49,529
1,320
Tokyo, Japan
Harvard doctors make a leftist claim: evidence-based-peer-reviewed-science

Harvard doctors making a different claim: right-wing-russian-Trump-science-denying-conspiracy-theorists
These fucking globalists, smh
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Feb 21, 2018
24,156
51,423
1,215
US's neighbors to the north:



The majority of Canada just entered hard lock down again, "non-essential" businesses all closed and a return to school delayed.

Yes because closing Walmart is going to change the below

AGE GROUPNUMBER OF DEATHS IN THE PAST 14 DAYS1RATE OF MORTALITY PER 100,000 PEOPLE IN THE PAST 14 DAYSNUMBER OF CUMULATIVE DEATHS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMICCUMULATIVE MORTALITY RATE PER 100,000 PEOPLE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC
0-4 years0-0-
5-9 years0-0-
10-19 years0-0-
20-29 years0-< 5n.p.
30-39 years0-< 5n.p.
40-49 years0-16* 5.8
50-59 years< 5n.p.7529.2
60-69 years0-238110.0
70-79 years14* 9.7643445.0
80 years and more8079.52,8092,792.5
Missing0---
Total964.63,788183.4

94 out of the 96 deaths in the last 2 weeks were people over 70, 80 of them over 80. I am sure these people were getting sick and caught the virus while shopping at Walmart. Maybe they went to the gym, hit up Super Sex, and then went to Crescent street for a few beers and dancing.

I can gurantee you during our lockdown more 80+ are going to die while 0 under 50 and maybe 1 or 2 under 70 will die. But sure its because we are bad boys and girls and don't listen.

If lockdown, social distancing, masks all did the trick how hard is it to shove a mask on some 80 year old in a nursing home and keep them social distanced? I guess all the Trumpers are coming across the border coughing on grandma while she is hooked up to a dialysis machine.

Regardless of what they do, the deaths for the under 60 have remained pretty much the same. Lockdown we get barely any deaths, no lockdown we get barely any deaths.

Our government failed in protecting the old, continue to fail, and to distract us from this they are punishing everyone and blaming the population as if we are going into old age homes and coughing on the old people and killing them. Yup thats exactly what is happening thats why 80 80+ year old died because Timmy went to meet his friends, and Steve ran his casse croute, and Bob went for a few beers.
 
Jan 11, 2019
13,633
49,529
1,320
Tokyo, Japan
Yes because closing Walmart is going to change the below

AGE GROUPNUMBER OF DEATHS IN THE PAST 14 DAYS1RATE OF MORTALITY PER 100,000 PEOPLE IN THE PAST 14 DAYSNUMBER OF CUMULATIVE DEATHS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMICCUMULATIVE MORTALITY RATE PER 100,000 PEOPLE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC
0-4 years0-0-
5-9 years0-0-
10-19 years0-0-
20-29 years0-< 5n.p.
30-39 years0-< 5n.p.
40-49 years0-16* 5.8
50-59 years< 5n.p.7529.2
60-69 years0-238110.0
70-79 years14* 9.7643445.0
80 years and more8079.52,8092,792.5
Missing0---
Total964.63,788183.4

94 out of the 96 deaths in the last 2 weeks were people over 70, 80 of them over 80. I am sure these people were getting sick and caught the virus while shopping at Walmart. Maybe they went to the gym, hit up Super Sex, and then went to Crescent street for a few beers and dancing.

I can gurantee you during our lockdown more 80+ are going to die while 0 under 50 and maybe 1 or 2 under 70 will die. But sure its because we are bad boys and girls and don't listen.

If lockdown, social distancing, masks all did the trick how hard is it to shove a mask on some 80 year old in a nursing home and keep them social distanced? I guess all the Trumpers are coming across the border coughing on grandma while she is hooked up to a dialysis machine.

Regardless of what they do, the deaths for the under 60 have remained pretty much the same. Lockdown we get barely any deaths, no lockdown we get barely any deaths.

Our government failed in protecting the old, continue to fail, and to distract us from this they are punishing everyone and blaming the population as if we are going into old age homes and coughing on the old people and killing them. Yup thats exactly what is happening thats why 80 80+ year old died because Timmy went to meet his friends, and Steve ran his casse croute, and Bob went for a few beers.
FUCK THIS SHIT!!!@!

I'VE HAD IT WITH THESE MOTHERFUCKING SNAKES ON THESE MOTHERFUCKING PLANES!

WE NEED THIS LOCKDOWN TO END!
 

poppabk

Member
Jan 21, 2008
12,380
1,336
1,350
USA
This is retarded.
Its literally the point of the article.

"Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed."

Now you can argue that we should be following this guidance still with a vaccine, but it would be better if they came out with a new statement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MiyazakiHatesKojima
Jan 11, 2019
13,633
49,529
1,320
Tokyo, Japan
Its literally the point of the article.

"Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed."

Now you can argue that we should be following this guidance still with a vaccine, but it would be better if they came out with a new statement.
 

Madonis

Member
Oct 21, 2018
1,499
1,060
365
What the fuck are you all going on about? Many states in the US are locked down tight as shit with no intentions of opening back up. My state never opened back up and the economy is totally fucked. My company has now gone backwards and locked down other offices that had previously opened. The next wave of lockdowns is starting even with the vaccine.

US's neighbors to the north:



The majority of Canada just entered hard lock down again, "non-essential" businesses all closed and a return to school delayed.

I'm sorry about this, but the point wasn't that literally nobody in the U.S. (or elsewhere on Earth) is locked down.

Compared to a few months ago, when literally everyone was under total lockdown, it's undeniable things have indeed changed in various places.

This doesn't deny the presence of setbacks or locations where a new set of lockdowns have happened. It's still, however, not the same as before.
 
Last edited:
Jan 11, 2019
13,633
49,529
1,320
Tokyo, Japan
I'm sorry about that, but the point isn't that literally nobody is locked down.

Compared to a few months ago, when literally everyone was under total lockdown, it's undeniable things have indeed changed in various places.

This doesn't deny the presence of setbacks or locations where a new set of lockdowns have happened. It's still, however, not the same as before.
At the price of being vaccinated.
 

Joe T.

Member
Oct 3, 2004
4,453
7,250
1,770
Montreal, Quebec
I'm sorry about this, but the point wasn't that literally nobody in the U.S. (or elsewhere on Earth) is locked down.

Compared to a few months ago, when literally everyone was under total lockdown, it's undeniable things have indeed changed in various places.

This doesn't deny the presence of setbacks or locations where a new set of lockdowns have happened. It's still, however, not the same as before.

Many of us are worse off now than we were a few months ago in summer and there's no rational explanation to support it, definitely not one backed up by local data or science. Trump had it right and he was steamrolled for it: everything needs to open back up.

He's also been a fantastic salesman for big pharma which is making a killing on this overplayed pandemic, a critique I curiously don't see coming from his biggest detractors who are usually quick to trash him for the slightest misstep (sometimes literally).
 
Jan 11, 2019
13,633
49,529
1,320
Tokyo, Japan
Many of us are worse off now than we were a few months ago in summer and there's no rational explanation to support it, definitely not one backed up by local data or science. Trump had it right and he was steamrolled for it: everything needs to open back up.

He's also been a fantastic salesman for big pharma which is making a killing on this overplayed pandemic, a critique I curiously don't see coming from his biggest detractors who are usually quick to trash him for the slightest misstep (sometimes literally).
NPCs will take the vaccine, suffer the consequences, and earn the Mark of the Beast.

The rest of us.....to the gulags.
 

Liljagare

Member
May 8, 2013
2,163
635
745
Sweden
Holy smokes, you really have fallen for the Qanon stuff, hook line and sinker.

You do know there is no reality behind all of this right? Start looking into your sources, they all fall apart.
 
Last edited:

Dacon

Member
Apr 24, 2011
4,192
5,154
1,115
Houston, Texas
Holy smokes, you really have fallen for the Qanon stuff, hook line and sinker.

You do know there is no reality behind all of this right? Start looking into your sources, they all fall apart.

What the fuck does Qanon have to do with anything here?

Also "You're wrong look it up" isnt a counter argument to the statements presented by these Doctors.
 
  • Fire
Reactions: MiyazakiHatesKojima

CloudNull

Banned
Oct 14, 2019
1,765
4,660
465
I'm sorry about this, but the point wasn't that literally nobody in the U.S. (or elsewhere on Earth) is locked down.

Compared to a few months ago, when literally everyone was under total lockdown, it's undeniable things have indeed changed in various places.

This doesn't deny the presence of setbacks or locations where a new set of lockdowns have happened. It's still, however, not the same as before.

There is no statistical evidence that lockdowns work. The fact that there is a second wave of lockdowns coming when we have multiple vaccines is insanity also The idea so many people are okay with this shows people have drank the koolaid. I don’t understand how anyone can argue this is justified when statistically this disease has a super high survival rate.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MiyazakiHatesKojima
Jan 11, 2019
13,633
49,529
1,320
Tokyo, Japan
There is no statistical evidence that lockdowns work. The fact that there is a second wave of lockdowns coming when we have multiple vaccines is insanity also The idea so many people are okay with this shows people have drank the koolaid. I don’t understand how anyone can argue this is justified when statistically this disease has a super high survival rate.
These NPCs will never admit they're wrong and have been fooled because it would cause them to have a nervous breakdown.

Just pray that the sane aren't harmed by these insane protocols.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CloudNull

Liljagare

Member
May 8, 2013
2,163
635
745
Sweden
What the fuck does Qanon have to do with anything here?

Also "You're wrong look it up" isnt a counter argument to the statements presented by these Doctors.

Wth are you doing, and sorry, but this is straight paragraphed from the Qanon conspiracy posts?

Also, doctors, that have registered licences, that you can look up? And, not find registered, you mean those "doctors"?
 
Last edited:

Liljagare

Member
May 8, 2013
2,163
635
745
Sweden
These NPCs will never admit they're wrong and have been fooled because it would cause them to have a nervous breakdown.

Just pray that the sane aren't harmed by these insane protocols.

Dear lord, its literarly like protesting TBC during its height.

But I guess your grandma was just talking about the "imaginary" WW2 to you when you were young.
 
Last edited:

Halo is Dead

Member
May 20, 2018
6,999
12,597
780
Wth are you doing, and sorry, but this is straight paragraphed from the Qanon conspiracy posts?

Also, doctors, that have registered licences, that you can look up? And, not find registered, you mean those "doctors"?
I just did a quick google search of each doctor. They are all proudly displayed on each of their respective University / Institution's website including their credentials .
 

poppabk

Member
Jan 21, 2008
12,380
1,336
1,350
USA
I just did a quick google search of each doctor. They are all proudly displayed on each of their respective University / Institution's website including their credentials .
I don't think there should be any question about their credentials, and they should be free to give their opinion, but it also doesn't mean it is right or that we in turn shouldn't be free to question their views.
It's not like you couldn't find 20 experts with similar credentials that would support lockdowns and could back it up with data.
In 5 years time we will have a clearer picture of what we did right and what we did wrong, why things that should have worked failed, and the things that we just lucked into -but right now it is all educated guess work, using incomplete data sets and supposition.
 

Halo is Dead

Member
May 20, 2018
6,999
12,597
780
I don't think there should be any question about their credentials, and they should be free to give their opinion, but it also doesn't mean it is right or that we in turn shouldn't be free to question their views.
It's not like you couldn't find 20 experts with similar credentials that would support lockdowns and could back it up with data.
In 5 years time we will have a clearer picture of what we did right and what we did wrong, why things that should have worked failed, and the things that we just lucked into -but right now it is all educated guess work, using incomplete data sets and supposition.
All I was doing was disputing that guy's claim they were "fake" doctors.
 

GribbleGrunger

Dreams in Digital
Oct 12, 2012
16,377
9,668
1,240
Another three quacks to put on ignore. That list is getting awfully long. Ask Bill, he'll put you right.