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Drama 30 fps killing my eyes! Devs should abandon it!

Oct 2, 2019
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Which games? Even on my Gameboy (1989), 60fps was standard.
5th gen games, from FF7-9 where battles were 15 FPS to Zelda OoT average of 15-25 FPS, Doom was 25 FPS and even lower on some console versions, there were a lot of sub 30 games that gen, people love to rag on about 30 vs 60 these days and while 60 is better it doesn't mean a solid 30 is unplayable.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

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5th gen games, from FF7-9 where battles were 15 FPS to Zelda OoT average of 15-25 FPS, Doom was 25 FPS and even lower on some console versions, there were a lot of sub 30 games that gen, people love to rag on about 30 vs 60 these days and while 60 is better it doesn't mean a solid 30 is unplayable.

There were also tons of gameboy games that barely hit 20 FPS, often times even dipping below that. Clearly they fail to remember much about those games oe played primarily via emulation and not on official hardware.
 
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rofif

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Low framerates have always looked like shit. And the comparison to film is retarded, in film it's bearable because film isn't interactive. 24FPS with decent motion blur can look...okay...as long as the refresh rate is a multiple of 24. As soon as you ask me to control basically anything on screen however that low framerate is laid bare. It's 2020 2021, 60FPS should be the bare minimum target.
Not really. Film works because each frame is not a capture of a point in time but a capture of a chunk of time.
This is exactly why waterfall recording looks terrible if you use very fast shutter speed vs normal or low.
It is easier to build up a motion of you use pictures that capture motion and not time. Otherwise you need a lot of pictures like 240hz.

It's super easy to test with camera and anything moving. It brain don't see still pictures. Waterfall looks correct only with low shutter speed like in movies.

The feel is terrible below 30. 30 is ok in shower games. 60 is optional for feeling but still needs lots of motion blur
 
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Stiflers Mom

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If it's stable 30 fps, it can be okay. Vanquish did it, and it worked.
That said, more FPS is always better, and 60 should be minimum going forward.
 
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cireza

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I share the sentiment OP. 30fps in games with free camera is a blurry nightmare, really hurts the eyes. I developed a natural reflex and don't focus at all on the screen when the camera is moving fast. You can be sure our blurry screens are the cause of eye problems as well.
 
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Self

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5th gen games, from FF7-9 where battles were 15 FPS to Zelda OoT average of 15-25 FPS, Doom was 25 FPS and even lower on some console versions, there were a lot of sub 30 games that gen, people love to rag on about 30 vs 60 these days and while 60 is better it doesn't mean a solid 30 is unplayable.

The very low framrates of old games didn't bother me as long as I was playing on a small CRT. But nowerdays... well, it's different.
 

ChoosableOne

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So, did you get a new TV recently?
I'm playing on a 75 hz Asus monitor. Motion blur off.
30 fps killed my father.
It's more difficult if a person breaths with his eyes "lollipop_disappointed:
It kills my eyes and my brain seeing all these boring topics about "oh my god, 30 fps is bad, my life is ruined".

30 fps is PERFECTLY FINE when stable on consoles. Stop the drama. I don't give a shit about 60+ fps on consoles and I will choose forever better graphics vs 60 fps.

You want real "low" framerate ? Play the N64 and enjoy 10-15 fps.

Help yourself:
1) Get a PC for 720+ fps
2) Enjoy life

You're welcome.
As time and technology moves on, we should adapt to it. Not so long ago, i was thinking 720p is the sharpest image that will ever come to this earth.
Must suck to turn on the TV then
How do you do with 24 FPS movies? I fucking hate motion in movies. The Transformers movies big fight scenes feel like a game stuttering when I watch it. That said, 30 FPS is 25% faster and not too bad in some games. I haven't noticed any issues in the new Spiderman on PS5. I plan to play TLoU 2 next so I will see if that game is problematic.
It doesn't bother me while watching a movie/tv show. Some people explained it here, you should read them. And i searched for some 60fps movies and i think they are looking really good. gemini man 60fps youtube link.
If you always game on consol with 30 fps games, it will probably be an ok experience. It hurts most when you switch from master race:messenger_smiling_horns:
I agree op. However tlou2 is a bad example. It runs preclude smooth at 30fps surprisingly. Try god of war now that is disgusting at 30fps
It depends on your perception of smooth. If you play it after a 60 fps game it is more difficult to take. I played god of war with unlocked frame rate on PS4pro and it was ok, couldn't play 30 fps version.
Pussy, back in my day we played 15-20FPS and we enjoyed it, we didn't even know what FPS was! Kids these days......
:messenger_grinning: Relax old man. This is what happens when you don't read OP. Oblivion killed my eyes with 15-20 fps(because my rigs power back then, that is). I was aware but couldn't fight with FPS though.
If 30fps could cause myopia, then i'm afraid watching movies at 24fps, your whole life, did most of the damage.
As explained before, they are different types of materials. But it could be, i don't know.
Yeah, most people prefer 60fps over 39fps, but:

“it’s really hurting my eyes and I’m concerned about the long term effects on my health”

Oh fuck off dude, what a load of shite!
It hurts my eyes, that's a fact. I'm wearing glasses so it can't go worse than this. Trying to save our future:messenger_halo:
30 FPS has never been an issue and the only ones making it an issue are overzealous console warring kiddies.
I love all of my consoles(ps2,3,4pro,nes,atari) and pc's(ati radeon 9819203810, celeron cpu's, and my dream pc with pentium 4 3.0ghz) that i had to this date. But we have to move on. I don't understand people who says "that was ok back then, why are you whining in 2021?". Should we use horse wagons instead of Tesla too?
 

GymWolf

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If you play on console get used to them or just build a pc for all the multiplatform games.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

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I'm playing on a 75 hz Asus monitor. Motion blur off.

It's more difficult if a person breaths with his eyes "lollipop_disappointed:

As time and technology moves on, we should adapt to it. Not so long ago, i was thinking 720p is the sharpest image that will ever come to this earth.


It doesn't bother me while watching a movie/tv show. Some people explained it here, you should read them. And i searched for some 60fps movies and i think they are looking really good. gemini man 60fps youtube link.
If you always game on consol with 30 fps games, it will probably be an ok experience. It hurts most when you switch from master race:messenger_smiling_horns:

It depends on your perception of smooth. If you play it after a 60 fps game it is more difficult to take. I played god of war with unlocked frame rate on PS4pro and it was ok, couldn't play 30 fps version.

:messenger_grinning: Relax old man. This is what happens when you don't read OP. Oblivion killed my eyes with 15-20 fps(because my rigs power back then, that is). I was aware but couldn't fight with FPS though.

As explained before, they are different types of materials. But it could be, i don't know.

It hurts my eyes, that's a fact. I'm wearing glasses so it can't go worse than this. Trying to save our future:messenger_halo:

I love all of my consoles(ps2,3,4pro,nes,atari) and pc's(ati radeon 9819203810, celeron cpu's, and my dream pc with pentium 4 3.0ghz) that i had to this date. But we have to move on. I don't understand people who says "that was ok back then, why are you whining in 2021?". Should we use horse wagons instead of Tesla too?

I am all for progress and would love to see more 60 FPS games, however my issue is with those that make hyperbolic shitposts claiming they 30 is unplayable, that it literally causes them pain, among other asinine claims.

Growing tired of all the low effort trash posts lately like those that I mentioned. Having an actual discussion is one thing. Making up shit is another.
 
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Coolwhhip

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regawdless

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Humans are very good at adapting. If you start to only play 30fps games, it stops being an issue after a while. But switching between high and low fps makes these low fps look pretty bad.

I was fine with 30fps and even the stuttering Bloodborne mess. Then I bought a good PC with a 144hz monitor and suddenly Bloodborne became unplayable. I'm not willing to go back to 30fps anymore, it's so distracting.

That said, Spider-Man on PS4 Pro at 30fps was acceptable for me for some reason and didn't fry my brain. Maybe it was the good motion blur.
 
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Mista

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I am all for progress and would love to see more 60 FPS games, however my issue is with those that make hyperbolic shitposts claiming they 30 is unplayable, that it literally causes them pain, among other asinine claims.

Growing tired of all the low effort trash posts lately like those that I mentioned. Having an actual discussion is one thing. Making up shit is another.
Speaking about myself. After playing on 60+ I just can’t go back to 30 anymore man. Played plenty of 30fps games this last gen, I managed but it doesn’t mean that it was alright for me.

Playing Death Stranding all over again when it launched on PC surely was a great smooth experience. It’s just a matter of what you’re getting used to at the end honestly. If there’s people that plays 30fps all their life then that’s fine too.

People just need to stop with the bollocks of downplaying the importance of high frame rate and keep saying 30fps is fine. At the end of the day I’m having the best of two worlds, high resolution and high frames.
 

Stefan.North

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30fps should be avoided like a plague in this day and age. 60fps should have been a standard long ago, but we had HD generation claming pixel count more important.
 
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Aidah

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I can't say that 30fps is killing my eyes because that would be nonsensical, however switching between 60 and 30 in succession in particular makes 30 look and feel like a total joke. I find it funny whenever someone calls a 30fps console game a general "technical showcase".

You have to accept the fact that a huge part of the console user base and general market is the oblivious type, "story" type...etc, so devs will make decisions based on that, or even cater to it. If you want a platform where a 30fps cap gets shat on you need a PC, it'll cover most cases.

For console exclusives, there has been a growing trend the past few years from platform holders and devs to focus more on performance and feel, and to offer choice. Combine that with the much more balanced new consoles compared to last, and you might just end up getting your wish somewhat often.

Now not all 30fps targets are due to the more shallow things like more detail, higher res, or more grass. Sometimes it's needed to achieve core game mechanics and ideas, and in that case you just have to accept the low performance as part of the package, as you really have no idea what the game would have to lose to target 60fps instead, and if the game will remain interesting then.
 
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Tchu-Espresso

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I turned off motion blur because it makes me sick even more.

Am i look like a troll to you(besides my avatar)? Are you happy with your 30 fps games? Or did you triggered because your beloved consoles(ps, xbox, switch, whatever) criticized? "lollipop_disappointed:
I don’t understand not liking motion blur, especially for 30fps games. It makes them feel so much better to play.
 
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JimboJones

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I don’t understand not liking motion blur, especially for 30fps games. It makes them feel so much better to play.
I think it depends on the game implementation some games are worse than others, I like when games give you a choice between per object motion blur and camera motion blur though.

Playing Spyro on Switch I had to leave it on, looks like crap without it.
 

Kuranghi

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I'm playing on a 75 hz Asus monitor. Motion blur off.
That explains it then, you have a display with a really low response time so 30 fps looks like crap on it without motion blur or black frame insertion (MB being a bandaid for the problem and BFI being a better solution but harder to do because you need tons of light to counter the brightness drop, which monitors don't usually have).

Try connecting the PS to one of your TVs in the house (Not an OLED, same problem) and see if you think it looks any better than the monitor. Also check the model of the TV so we can compare the response time to that of the Asus monitor.

I wouldn't recommend playing 30fps games on panels that have really fast response times, like most monitors or OLED TVs, it will look like shit, ask anyone here who bought an OLED after only owning LCDs before. Suddenly they will be more interested in games being 60fps minimum because 30 looks extremely stuttery on their new TV, TLOU2's motion in particular probably looks quite jarring on an OLED (without motion blur turned on) vs. an LCD TV.

I'd prefer the technology to get better at presenting the 30 frames per second to our eyes in a way that doesn't introduce stutter than we downgrade all graphics just to push more frames.
 
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billyxci

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honestly i think 30fps is fine on consoles if implemented properly. it's not all about frame rate but pacing. could be a solid 30fps but shitty pacing ruins it. also 30fps is largely depedant on what kind of screen you have. on my old TV i had no problems with 30fps but on my OLED it is a disaster cause those TVs are designed for 40-120hz.

and i say this as someone who is used to playing at 165Hz on PC and my eyes start to hurt if it goes below 90fps. 90-120hz is the sweetspot. above 120hz it's diminished returns. i can still obviously play games at 60fps but it's jarring when you're running at ~120-160fps and it drops to like 40-60fps.
 
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dorkimoe

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Started torchlight on xsx and it’s awful. It has to be 30fps or something, coming from playing a 60fps game to this really is unplayable.
 
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billyxci

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Started torchlight on xsx and it’s awful. It has to be 30fps or something, coming from playing a 60fps game to this really is unplayable.
after all these years it's nice to see console owners realise we weren't talking shit. 30fps is fine in some situations but imo 60fps should be absolute minimum.
 
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dorkimoe

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after all these years it's nice to see console owners realise we weren't talking shit. 30fps is fine in some situations but imo 60fps should be absolute minimum.

yeah I used to play state of decay 2 on pc and alternate with that and my Xbox. Was terrible going down to 30
 

Neo_game

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Personally I do not have any problem with 30fps.It seems some people just can't adjust or do not want to but I am sure your brain can adapt. Though you probably are going to do much better in 60fps as time to render each frame is some 16ms compared to some 32ms for 30fps. But then same can be said about kb + mouse and a controller playing FPS games especially. It also depends on the display.
 
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Airbus Jr

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honestly i think 30fps is fine on consoles if implemented properly. it's not all about frame rate but pacing. could be a solid 30fps but shitty pacing ruins it. also 30fps is largely depedant on what kind of screen you have. on my old TV i had no problems with 30fps but on my OLED it is a disaster cause those TVs are designed for 40-120hz.

and i say this as someone who is used to playing at 165Hz on PC and my eyes start to hurt if it goes below 90fps. 90-120hz is the sweetspot. above 120hz it's diminished returns. i can still obviously play games at 60fps but it's jarring when you're running at ~120-160fps and it drops to like 40-60fps.
If youre a PC gamer then you shouldve know that 30 fps on consoles has nothing to do with developer unwilling to do so

Its because of console hardware limitation
 

Roronoa Zoro

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Do you hear that approaching thunder?



Its the sound of 1000s of frothing at the mouth Sony fans furiously typing up dissertations on why 30fps is perfect for games and super extra cinematic.


What have you done op....WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!
It's not perfect but it's nice to have the better graphics option. They built those preferences into the console settings so I suspect many more games will go that route in the future. That way I and many others can keep playing with all these nice extra effects and not really noticing anything bad about 30 and you and others can go on playing at 60
 
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Mabdia

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Well i totally agree that 30fps looks like shit. I mean, IInfamous second son looks better to me and I think it is more impressive than Uncharted 4, Horizon, Ghost of Tsushima and the last of us2 (and I know that it isn't a 60fps game on Pro).
 

Roronoa Zoro

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They can but they won’t. Graphics sells, not high frames. So as long as it is a selling point, don’t expect anything else.
Well every console or PC has a limit if they keep pushing graphics to the max. I think the devs this new gen seem to be allowing more options which is what's probably best
 

JeloSWE

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They can but they won’t. Graphics sells, not high frames. So as long as it is a selling point, don’t expect anything else.
60fps sells to me. I often just buy the game on PC later because of it, so at least Sony is losing out on my money or I will wait for a 60fps patch, if none arrives then I might not buy the game at all.

I've never played a game in 30 when there is a higher fps option available and often the 30 fps taints the experience in a constant subdued frustration at less responsive controls and blurrier image in motion due to Sample and Hold of displays.
 

Rubberwald

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The funny thing is that I didn't mind 30 fps until I got myself XSX. It is not like there were no 60fps games before, but majority were 30 and it honestly didn't bother me. Very often I even chose 30 fps mode over 60 fps, because of visuals and steady framerate. After playing Valhalla, Immortals, Gears Tactics and many other games these past few months I got so used to 60, that going back to 30 feels like an eye-sore. It feels slow, unresponsive and choppy.
 
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Mista

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Well every console or PC has a limit if they keep pushing graphics to the max. I think the devs this new gen seem to be allowing more options which is what's probably best
On PC you always have options. New consoles the same but not as flexible as PC
The casual consumer doesn't give a damn about performance
60fps sells to me. I often just buy the game on PC later because of it, so at least Sony is losing out on my money or I will wait for a 60fps patch, if none arrives then I might not buy the game at all.

I've never played a game in 30 when there is a higher fps option available and often the 30 fps taints the experience in a constant subdued frustration at less responsive controls and blurrier image in motion due to Sample and Hold of displays.
You, me and plenty others. The people that are bringing the profit are the ones that doesn't give a damn
We both know very well that the market is bigger than a enthusiasts on a gaming forum
We aren't going to see any sacrifices as long as pretty images are the selling point
 

JeloSWE

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On PC you always have options. New consoles the same but not as flexible as PC
The casual consumer doesn't give a damn about performance

You, me and plenty others. The people that are bringing the profit are the ones that doesn't give a damn
We both know very well that the market is bigger than a enthusiasts on a gaming forum
We aren't going to see any sacrifices as long as pretty images are the selling point
I hope that now with the new generation and most new releases including 60fps it becomes a standard option, even for Naughty Dog.

Many argue that the comparatively weaker last gen CPU was the reason many titles couldn't keep up the fps. It's a plausible reason as when the PS4 pro released no titles went 60fps as the CPU didn't improve nearly as much as the GPU did.
 
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me: can i play this game?
devs: can your console/pc run it in 60 fps?
me: no, but im allright with a steady 30 fps.
dev:
me: sooooo..., can i play this game?
dev: no!
me:
dev: all i can do are muddy textures.
me: but why tho?
dev: bc OP FEELS that way!

:messenger_winking:
 

ChoosableOne

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I don’t understand not liking motion blur, especially for 30fps games. It makes them feel so much better to play.
It makes me dizzy. You can search on google, there are a lot of people like me.
That explains it then, you have a display with a really low response time so 30 fps looks like crap on it without motion blur or black frame insertion (MB being a bandaid for the problem and BFI being a better solution but harder to do because you need tons of light to counter the brightness drop, which monitors don't usually have).

Try connecting the PS to one of your TVs in the house (Not an OLED, same problem) and see if you think it looks any better than the monitor. Also check the model of the TV so we can compare the response time to that of the Asus monitor.

I wouldn't recommend playing 30fps games on panels that have really fast response times, like most monitors or OLED TVs, it will look like shit, ask anyone here who bought an OLED after only owning LCDs before. Suddenly they will be more interested in games being 60fps minimum because 30 looks extremely stuttery on their new TV, TLOU2 motion probably looks quite jarring on an OLED (without motion blur turned on) vs. an LCD TV.

I'd prefer the technology to get better at presenting the 30 frames per second to our eyes in a way that doesn't introduce stutter than we downgrade all graphics just to push more frames.
I think you may be right about this. I always thought that 60 fps spoiled me but this could be the case. I remember playing 30fps games on TV(years ago). It was not as good as a 60 fps experience, but never felt that bad like this. I will try it on my Samsung Full HD TV and let you know.
me: can i play this game?
devs: can your console/pc run it in 60 fps?
me: no, but im allright with a steady 30 fps.
dev:
me: sooooo..., can i play this game?
dev: no!
me:
dev: all i can do are muddy textures.
me: but why tho?
dev: bc OP FEELS that way!

:messenger_winking:
Tell that dev to give us two options pls.
 
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JeloSWE

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I don’t understand not liking motion blur, especially for 30fps games. It makes them feel so much better to play.
Object motion blur is generally good. But camera motion blur as you look around is horrible, I always turn that shit down to zero. Even I get a bit nauseated my lots of camera motion blur in games, not so much in movies. It a bit like getting car sic, it's a feedback loop between what you expect from your inputs or feel in the car and what your eyes see not adding up to what our senses have evolved for.
 
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