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[Stephen Colbert]

To sum up, there is absolutely no good reason why the ingame OS should take up more than 8mbs of ram. If the 360's OS can do all it does, and output all the fancy graphical effects it has, all in 1080p resolution, using only 32mbs or ram, there's no reason why the 3DS should need anywhere close to as much ram for the in game OS.

The only functions you should be able to do with the OS without actually exiting out of the game, are those functions that don't use up a lot of ram.

The web browser should only launch when you exit out of the game completely, not when the game is merely suspended. This is what the PS3 does and no one seems to mind.

This has several effects....

1. Developers would be able to use 120mbs of ram for their games, rather than 64-96mbs of ram only. Ergo, we get better quality games, better ai, more enemies, higher res textures etc.

2. The web browser would be two orders of magnitude better, since it could be designed to make use of 128mbs of ram rather than 32-64mbs of ram.

 

[SnakeXs]

There is absolutely no good reason why the ingame OS should take up more than 8mbs of ram.

Breathing room to add more features in the future?

 

[Lonely1]

Exactly. Wasting a ton of the systems ram solely for the purpose of letting people browse online while in the middle of a game, is stupid.

Make the in game OS footprint 4-8mbs of ram, give the remaining 120mbs to developers for their games, and make anyone that wants to browse the web have to quit out of their game in order to do so.

The web browser could also be far better since it would have access to the full 128mbs of ram rather than just 32mbs, since the game would be closed when it's running.

The 3DS is a gaming console first and foremost. It should prioritize the games.

8MB is too low for a modern console. It needs its DRM, access to voice chat, friend lists, etc while in game. If they set a too small part of RAM for the OS, there's no going back.

 

[AceBandage]

8MB is too low for a modern console. It needs its DRM, access to voice chat, friend lists, etc while in game. If they set a small apart of RAM for the OS, there's no going back.

Pretty much.
They can always decrease it if they want to. They can't increase it.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

8MB is too low for a modern console. It needs its DRM, access to voice chat, friend lists, etc while in game. If they set a too small part of RAM for the OS, there's no going back.

There's no reason why a friends list should need more than 8mbs of ram. None of those features should need all that much ram.

 

[Truth101]

There's no reason why a friends list should need more than 8mbs of ram. None of those features should need all that much ram.

There's no reason for them not to set a large amount of RAM away for the OS and then slowly decrease the amount of RAM saved for the OS if it is not needed. In the long run that will lead to a more balanced OS/game experience.

Also, we have yet to see the browser netfront is making for the 3DS, it might not be that awful.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

On another note, I'm absolutely shocked that the specs of the 3DS's cpu and gpu haven't leaked yet.

So many studios have dev kits already. Games are already out, the system is already out. So how is it that no one has bothered to leak the specs or the performance capabilities of the dev kits?

They must have gotten some rock solid NDAs in place.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

There's no reason why a friends list should need more than 8mbs of ram. None of those features should need all that much ram.

Dude. Chill. No reason to stroke out about the amount of ram they're reserving. They're doing exactly what they're supposed to - reserving as much as they could ever expect to use. If they don't need it in a year or two, they'll free up some of it in a required firmware update. If they locked themselves to 8 right now, and found an OMG new feature that would take up another 8 a year from now they'd be fucked.

 

[AceBandage]

On another note, I'm absolutely shocked that the specs of the 3DS's cpu and gpu haven't leaked yet.

So many studios have dev kits already. Games are already out, the system is already out. So how is it that no one has bothered to leak the specs or the performance capabilities of the dev kits?

They fear the Nintendo Yakuza... and

 

[UncleSporky]

The web browser should only launch when you exit out of the game completely, not when the game is merely suspended. This is what the PS3 does and no one seems to mind.

Holy crap no. Being able to quickly pop in and out of a game to check a guide or whatever is huge. That's one of the things I'm most excited about in the 3DS's future.

 

[Truth101]

Holy crap no. Being able to quickly pop in and out of a game to check a guide or whatever is huge. That's one of the things I'm most excited about in the 3DS's future.

I'm excited also, it will be great for my long hours of Harvest Moon and Animal Crossing.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

They fear the Nintendo Yakuza... and

 

[StickSoldier]

Holy crap no. Being able to quickly pop in and out of a game to check a guide or whatever is huge. That's one of the things I'm most excited about in the 3DS's future.

Yeah, as long as the games still have 96 MB of ram, and the OS has 32 MB its all good. 96 MB is good enough for games.

 

[UncleSporky]

Yeah, as long as the games still have 96 MB of ram, and the OS has 32 MB its all good. 96 MB is good enough for games.

Well y'know ideally they'd have 128 or more dedicated to games and a separate chip of 64 or more for OS/browser but I'll take what I can get. If 128 is the magic number and it gets me these features then I think 96/32 is a good split.

 

[StickSoldier]

Well y'know ideally they'd have 128 or more dedicated to games and a separate chip of 64 or more for OS/browser but I'll take what I can get. If 128 is the magic number and it gets me these features then I think 96/32 is a good split.

Hahah that aint no lie, but yeah if it's 128 MB in total, 96/32 is great. You wont see me complaining at all. It's a good balance IMO..

Also, wasn't there a rumor or something that initial dev kits only had like 64MB of RAM to work with, and it got upped last minute?
I wonder if that'll change some of the games we've seen already for their final product.

I'm sure it will help a lot of games out. I know the new RE:Merc trailer is bullshot with the res and all, but I bet it will look a lot better than the first few demos we saw. I also believe the RE: Rev will look better too.

 

[AceBandage]

Also, wasn't there a rumor or something that initial dev kits only had like 64MB of RAM to work with, and it got upped last minute?
I wonder if that'll change some of the games we've seen already for their final product.

 

[antonz]

Also, wasn't there a rumor or something that initial dev kits only had like 64MB of RAM to work with, and it got upped last minute?
I wonder if that'll change some of the games we've seen already for their final product.

I imagine developers who care ie Capcom and Nintendo as major ones will make sure to adjust things to take advantage of extra capabilities. Companies like Ubisoft will just churn out the shit then maybe take advantage on later things.

Ubisoft already has a ton of shovelware in development and you can bet they wont be rushing to upgrade that stuff.

 

[Emitan]

I imagine developers who care ie Capcom and Nintendo as major ones will make sur eot adjust things to take advantage of extra capabilities. Companies like Ubisoft will just churn out the shit then maybe take advantage on later things.

Ubisoft already has a ton of shovelware in development and you can bet they wont be rushing to upgrade that stuff.

Ubisoft probably turned down the 96MB dev kits. "Nope, don't need 'em. We can crank out a year's worth of games in a month!"

 

[AceBandage]

Well, I have no faith in a single major Western dev anyway... for any system actually.
It's very rare that they surprise me with a good game.

 

[antonz]

Ubisoft probably turned down the 96MB dev kits. "Nope, don't need 'em. We can crank out a year's worth of games in a month!"

heh yeah I mean they already have the ----z series games getting ready to start flooding market in june

 

[heyf00L]

8MB is too low for a modern console. It needs its DRM, access to voice chat, friend lists, etc while in game. If they set a too small part of RAM for the OS, there's no going back.

They can pull a PSP and add more RAM to future hardware releases and screw over the early adopters.

I ain't even mad, tho.

 

[DonMigs85]

Nintendo is a master of squeezing data into tiny constraints (heck have you seen the size of some of their old game's battery-backups), so I wouldn't be surprised if the OS takes up 16MB or less. But even on the Wii, the browser tends to run out of memory pretty fast and has primitive Flash support so I don't expect an iPhone-quality browser on here.

And just to clear things up: Was PSP's bandwidth only around 0.6GB per sec?

 

[wazoo]

Nintendo is a master of squeezing data into tiny constraints (heck have you seen the size of some of their old game's battery-backups), so I wouldn't be surprised if the OS takes up 16MB or less. But even on the Wii, the browser tends to run out of memory pretty fast and has primitive Flash support so I don't expect an iPhone-quality browser on here.

Iphone has a very primitive flash support too.

 

[AceBandage]

Iphone has a very primitive flash support too.

If by primitive you mean non-existent.

 

[DonMigs85]

Iphone has a very primitive flash support too.

Maybe the 3DS and iPhone will team up to kill Flash dead.

 

[Minsc]

The iPhone and perhaps by extension the Android phones are the only systems (even including the PC) I've ever felt like RAM was used properly. Being able to suspend any program/game and instantly resume it with no loading screen BS is amazing.

The suspend feature on handhelds is great, pretty much what I'm talking about, but smartphones go one step further and let you suspend a game, return to the OS, load an app, suspend that app, load a different app, suspend that, return to the game instantly, suspend it, load a different game from a suspended state, and then a third and a fourth, then return to the OS again, with everything all suspended ready to start again instantly. On the PSP, I hate to switch games, because I have to save/sit through the loading/title screens.

I don't care how fast/slow the RAM is, the ability to have it in excess and suspend damn near everything is the future. If I could pay an extra $50 for a 3DS with 512MB of RAM so I could suspend 5 or 6 games at a time instead of 1, I would.

 

[Effect]

Also, wasn't there a rumor or something that initial dev kits only had like 64MB of RAM to work with, and it got upped last minute?
I wonder if that'll change some of the games we've seen already for their final product.

I wonder if this is why the Resident Evil games look even better now. There certainly seems to have been a graphic change for the better with Resident Evil: Mercenaries since it was originally shown off when you look at the recent Jill and Wesker trailer. Hopefully this means Kid Icarus will be taking advantage of it as well.

 

[mrklaw]

The iPhone and perhaps by extension the Android phones are the only systems (even including the PC) I've ever felt like RAM was used properly. Being able to suspend any program/game and instantly resume it with no loading screen BS is amazing.

The suspend feature on handhelds is great, pretty much what I'm talking about, but smartphones go one step further and let you suspend a game, return to the OS, load an app, suspend that app, load a different app, suspend that, return to the game instantly, suspend it, load a different game from a suspended state, and then a third and a fourth, then return to the OS again, with everything all suspended ready to start again instantly. On the PSP, I hate to switch games, because I have to save/sit through the loading/title screens.

I don't care how fast/slow the RAM is, the ability to have it in excess and suspend damn near everything is the future. If I could pay an extra $50 for a 3DS with 512MB of RAM so I could suspend 5 or 6 games at a time instead of 1, I would.

define 'instantly'. Because if you do all that, the first game sure as hell isn't resuming instantly. The screen you were on will appear instantly, but often it'll have been shut down by that point and need to do some housekeeping in the background. It can mask that pretty well, but its not instant.

and it helps that everything is on flash. You could probably do somethign like that with 3DS by dumping an image of the RAM onto SD card when you start up something new.

eg play Ridge Racer, in the middle of a race, press HOME. Game is suspended. You then take the card out and put in SFIV and press play. It then dumps the 96MB ram containing the active Ridge Racer gameplay onto SD card, and launches SFIV. Quit SFIV, put RR back in and you should be able to reload the RAM from SD card and continue from where you left off.

and 96MB should take only a couple of seconds to copy across, you could do it in the background while booting up the next game.

 

[mandiller]

I've played with a Dev 3DS and it said it had access to 96MB of RAM. So I guess 96MB for games, 32MB for the OS? That sounds about right.

 

[Minsc]

define 'instantly'. Because if you do all that, the first game sure as hell isn't resuming instantly. The screen you were on will appear instantly, but often it'll have been shut down by that point and need to do some housekeeping in the background. It can mask that pretty well, but its not instant.

6 apps is nothing on an iPhone 4. I frequently do 12 fine, but there's lighter ones in the mix then. I just tested a 4 game / 3 app split with a few heavier things (Infinity Blade, Final Fantasy 3, Carcassonne, Pinball HD, iBooks, Reeder, AccuWeather), and it worked perfectly, the apps/games were functional the instant as they appeared on the screen, no masking at all. I normally juggle even more on the device without having an app lose it's state and have to do the housekeeping in the background you run in too when the state is overwritten.

 

[blu]

There's no reason why a friends list should need more than 8mbs of ram. None of those features should need all that much ram.

Never heard of the psp2k/psp3k/pspgo, I take it, where games could access 24MB out of 64?.. Oh, hi Colbert.

 

[H_Prestige]

The iPhone and perhaps by extension the Android phones are the only systems (even including the PC) I've ever felt like RAM was used properly. Being able to suspend any program/game and instantly resume it with no loading screen BS is amazing.

The suspend feature on handhelds is great, pretty much what I'm talking about, but smartphones go one step further and let you suspend a game, return to the OS, load an app, suspend that app, load a different app, suspend that, return to the game instantly, suspend it, load a different game from a suspended state, and then a third and a fourth, then return to the OS again, with everything all suspended ready to start again instantly. On the PSP, I hate to switch games, because I have to save/sit through the loading/title screens.

I don't care how fast/slow the RAM is, the ability to have it in excess and suspend damn near everything is the future. If I could pay an extra $50 for a 3DS with 512MB of RAM so I could suspend 5 or 6 games at a time instead of 1, I would.

Exactly. Devs don't need to gimp their games to bite sized chunks if the system can store multiple save states at any given moment.

 

[Luigiv]

Now that I actually have my system, one rather cool, unpublicised feature is that the Camera app can run in 2 different states; A complete functionality full app state and a cut down multitask app state.

Here's to hoping the browser can do the same too.

The iPhone and perhaps by extension the Android phones are the only systems (even including the PC) I've ever felt like RAM was used properly. Being able to suspend any program/game and instantly resume it with no loading screen BS is amazing.

The suspend feature on handhelds is great, pretty much what I'm talking about, but smartphones go one step further and let you suspend a game, return to the OS, load an app, suspend that app, load a different app, suspend that, return to the game instantly, suspend it, load a different game from a suspended state, and then a third and a fourth, then return to the OS again, with everything all suspended ready to start again instantly. On the PSP, I hate to switch games, because I have to save/sit through the loading/title screens.

I don't care how fast/slow the RAM is, the ability to have it in excess and suspend damn near everything is the future. If I could pay an extra $50 for a 3DS with 512MB of RAM so I could suspend 5 or 6 games at a time instead of 1, I would.

To be fair, iDevices only got multitasking added last year and the interface for it feels just as haphazardly tacked on as it actually is. Maybe things are better on the iPhone 4 and iPad 2 with their 512MB chips, but on my Touch gen 4 it's use is fairly limited.

Personally I quite like Nintendo's approach to multitasking. Whilst it doesn't give you much freedom, I do appreciate that what is and isn't multitaskable is well defined and the interface is actually designed with the functionality in mind. Also it allows for the OS and background processes to be much lighter, which is important for a dedicated gaming system.

That being said the lack of a save state feature on the 3DS is almost criminal. VC games on the Wii have it, so you would think Nintendo would want to build on that feature and expand it's usefulness in a brand new system.

 

[M3d10n]

"Outputting 1080p" has nothing to do with the 360 OS using 32MBs of RAM.

The OS responsibility isn't only to run friends list and whatnot. It's very likely Nintendo has gone 360 on the 3DS and the OS is the one handling several tasks that in the DS and Wii were hardcoded into games, like managing the network connectivity, dealing with storage, decrypting stuff, etc.

Their current OS most likely doesn't uses anywhere near the 32MBs of RAM, but since the limit is there from day one they won't risk hitting a roadblock like Sony did when they found out they couldn't add new functions to their OS without breaking tons of existing games.

With 32MBs, Nintendo is probably planning on other multitasking features beyond the browser. It gives them a lot of freedom to update and even overhaul the OS over time, which quite frankly is absolutely necessary if they want the 3DS to be successful in the long term.