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4K 120hz Firmware rollout begins for Sony X900H / XH90

Amaranty

Amaranty

Member
rnlval said:
LG NANOCELL's 4K 120 hz does NOT blur like Sony's fake 4K 120 hz competition. "It still looks better than any Nanocell TV" is false.

Sony X900f is a VA panel
www.displayspecifications.com

54.6" Sony XBR-55X900F - Specifications

Specifications of Sony XBR-55X900F. Display: 54.6 in, VA, Direct LED (Full-Array Local Dimming), 3840 x 2160 pixels, Viewing angles (H/V): 178 ° / 178 °, Brightness: 600 cd/m², Static contrast: 6000 : 1, Refresh rate: 100 Hz / 120 Hz, Frame interpolation: 960 XR (Motionflow XR), TV tuner: Analog...
www.displayspecifications.com

Sony X900f doesn't include Dolby Vision IQ.



LG NANOCELL91 includes Dolby Vision IQ in addition to Dolby Vision.
Click to expand...
X900F has Dolby Vision. At least on Netflix.
 
S

SpokkX

Member
MikeM said:
I am aware there are drops. My point was that I didn't see screen tearing. Even with the video posted, I don't see any noticeable tearing. Or am I just blind to it on this game/video?
Click to expand...
Tearing or framedrops are basically the same thing. Framerate target is not met

It depends on if vsync is enabled or not in that specific game
 
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HTK

HTK

Banned
I really enjoyed the Sony X900H, I did take it back to get the CX OLED it was just better in terms of picture and gaming performance. However, Android TV or Google TV is the way to go on TV's, I cannot stand LG's user interface.

Anyway, glad you guys are getting this firmware its a great TV.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
HTK said:
I really enjoyed the Sony X900H, I did take it back to get the CX OLED it was just better in terms of picture and gaming performance. However, Android TV or Google TV is the way to go on TV's, I cannot stand LG's user interface.

Anyway, glad you guys are getting this firmware its a great TV.
Click to expand...
Weird because webOS is way superior to Android or Google TV.
Actually it is by a long shot the best TV OS in the market.
 
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sloppyjoe_gamer

sloppyjoe_gamer

Gold Member
I have a X950G, so i'm missing this update i guess lol.....i thought i read somewhere that the G series CAN get it too but Sony isn't doing it for that line for some reason.
 
MikeM

MikeM

Member
General question: Is it worth doing the 4k120fps update? Or is the picture quality better at 1080p120fps due to the X900H issues with 4k120?
 
R

Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
SpokkX said:
Tearing or framedrops are basically the same thing.
Click to expand...
They explicitly aren't, a tear is an unsynced frame with the refresh rate, so it can also happen with higher fps, it's not exclusive to framerate dropping.
Saying they are "basically the same thing" is completely and utterly wrong.

I've also not seen any tearing in 120fps games on my xsx/xh90, black ops cold war included, though I only play zombies; no tearing on PC either.
 
HeisenbergFX4

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
SpokkX said:
Tearing or framedrops are basically the same thing. Framerate target is not met

It depends on if vsync is enabled or not in that specific game
Click to expand...

Just no

MikeM said:
General question: Is it worth doing the 4k120fps update? Or is the picture quality better at 1080p120fps due to the X900H issues with 4k120?
Click to expand...

100% worth it though if you are gaming with a PC thats when the problems seem to occur.

Gaming on consoles with games that are true 4k 120fps there is no issue.

Problems seem to arise when people play console games that are 4k locked to 60 yet run the Xbox in 120hz as I did see that this weekend.

But again when I switched to say Ori running true 4k 120fps those stair stepping issues were gone
 
MikeM

MikeM

Member
Reizo Ryuu said:
They explicitly aren't, a tear is an unsynced frame with the refresh rate, so it can also happen with higher fps, it's not exclusive to framerate dropping.
Saying they are "basically the same thing" is completely and utterly wrong.

I've also not seen any tearing in 120fps games on my xsx/xh90, black ops cold war included, though I only play zombies; no tearing on PC either.
Click to expand...

Thanks for confirming.
 
Kilau

Kilau

Member
ethomaz said:
Weird because webOS is way superior to Android or Google TV.
Actually it is by a long shot the best TV OS in the market.
Click to expand...
That is certainly a preference thing, aside from the magic remote. Google TV is fantastic on my Sony. I got very comfortable with the Android side of things using a Shield TV for years and now that’s updated to Google TV also.
 
MikeM

MikeM

Member
So I just did the update and played some PS5 and Series X with 120 fps games (Doom Eternal) and wow. No blur at all. I guess it really does not affect consoles. I also noticed that the lag that was previously present on sound passthrough via optical out of the TV to my HT is gone too. Win!
 
dotnotbot

dotnotbot

Member
MikeM said:
So I just did the update and played some PS5 and Series X with 120 fps games (Doom Eternal) and wow. No blur at all. I guess it really does not affect consoles. I also noticed that the lag that was previously present on sound passthrough via optical out of the TV to my HT is gone too. Win!
Click to expand...

Sony improved it a lot by adding some kind of sharpening, you won't spot the difference now unless maybe using the TV as a PC monitor with no scalling set in Windows and sitting at a monitor distance. You can verify using test patterns that it's still not native 4k but there's no blur during normal use.

It could be worse, 2021 Sony OLEDs don't drop the resolution but instead they drop bit depth in 4k HDR 120 Hz mode to ~8 bits resulting in bad banding. That's probably how Sony decided to counter all the complaints about "fake" 4k as they advertise "4k 120", not "4k 120 HDR10".

2021 Panasonic OLEDs also drop the resolution in 4k 120 Hz. It seems to be unavoidable on those Mediatek SOCs. Sony will probably switch to the newer SOC in 2023.
 
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MikeM

MikeM

Member
dotnotbot said:
Sony improved it a lot by adding some kind of sharpening, you won't spot the difference now unless maybe using the TV as a PC monitor with no scalling set in Windows and sitting at a monitor distance.

You can verify using test patterns that it's still not native 4k but there's no blur during normal use.

It could be worse, 2021 Sony OLEDs don't drop the resolution but instead they drop bit depth in 4k HDR 120 Hz mode to ~8 bits resulting in bad banding. That's probably how Sony decided to counter all the complaints about "fake" 4k in 120 Hz mode as they advertise "4k 120", not "4k 120 HDR10".

2021 Panasonic OLEDs also drop the resolution in 4k 120 Hz. It seems to be unavoidable on those Mediatek SOCs. Sony will probably switch to the newer SOC in 2023.
Click to expand...

Good to know. This TV is temporary for gaming anyways.
 
JeloSWE

JeloSWE

Member
dotnotbot said:
Sony improved it a lot by adding some kind of sharpening, you won't spot the difference now unless maybe using the TV as a PC monitor with no scalling set in Windows and sitting at a monitor distance. You can verify using test patterns that it's still not native 4k but there's no blur during normal use.

It could be worse, 2021 Sony OLEDs don't drop the resolution but instead they drop bit depth in 4k HDR 120 Hz mode to ~8 bits resulting in bad banding. That's probably how Sony decided to counter all the complaints about "fake" 4k as they advertise "4k 120", not "4k 120 HDR10".

2021 Panasonic OLEDs also drop the resolution in 4k 120 Hz. It seems to be unavoidable on those Mediatek SOCs. Sony will probably switch to the newer SOC in 2023.
Click to expand...
2023, sigh! that's a long way away to fix what should already be working.
 
StateofMajora

StateofMajora

Banned
Reizo Ryuu said:
I'm guessing whoever cheaped out on the chip, contracted a bunch of them and they are now stuck with them for a while.
They probably also got fired.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t bet on that. Sony’s TV division are a bunch of pure assholes atm, it was definitely an cost saving measure everyone agreed on.

Sony has not been trying with their TVs since 2018. Not saying they aren’t great TVs (depending on which model we are talking), just that they’ve been slacking across the board lately.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
S0ULZB0URNE said:
Not IMO
Click to expand...
I'm not even sure what you guys disagree.

webOS is simple, easy to use and navigage... it doesn't take the full screen so you can manage and shift between apps pretty fast.
It is smooth too... even in the most powerful hardware TVs the Android / Google TV doesn't reach the performance of webOS in not so powerful hardware TVs.

The only advantage Android / Google TV has is the number of Apps avaiable.

Kilau said:
That is certainly a preference thing, aside from the magic remote. Google TV is fantastic on my Sony. I got very comfortable with the Android side of things using a Shield TV for years and now that’s updated to Google TV also.
Click to expand...
Preference is a thing... yes.
But that doesn't change the key advantages in use, performance and navigation that webOS has over Android / Google TV.

I will even say Android was not made to run in TVs at all.
Google always wanted to try to adapt it to TV screens but it is not ideal yet... Google TV UI is a better move in that regard I guess but still is not there.
The biggest issue is that the Android Core is not TV UI friendly and due that they are having a hard time to reach the desired UI for TVs.

I wanted a new Sony TV because two important things for me: LG OLED panel and Sony Image processor.... that combination is killer.
Android TV was a downgrade for me.
In any case Sony left Brasil in 2020 so no TV is being sold here anymore... I had to brought a LG CX for me.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
ethomaz said:
I'm not even sure what you guys disagree.

webOS is simple, easy to use and navigage... it doesn't take the full screen so you can manage and shift between apps pretty fast.
It is smooth too... even in the most powerful hardware TVs the Android / Google TV doesn't reach the performance of webOS in not so powerful hardware TVs.

The only advantage Android / Google TV has is the number of Apps avaiable.
Click to expand...
I couldn't stand the wii-mote like waving of the remote and I also find Android/Google TV and it's apps superior.

As far as you comparing the hardware's power... I am not sure where you are getting this from?
 
dotnotbot

dotnotbot

Member
StateofMajora said:
I wouldn’t bet on that. Sony’s TV division are a bunch of pure assholes atm, it was definitely an cost saving measure everyone agreed on.

Sony has not been trying with their TVs since 2018. Not saying they aren’t great TVs (depending on which model we are talking), just that they’ve been slacking across the board lately.
Click to expand...

All other companies except LG and Samsung also use Mediatek SOCs and Sony used best available one at the time XH90 released.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
S0ULZB0URNE said:
I couldn't stand the wii-mote like waving of the remote and I also find Android/Google TV and it's apps superior.

As far as you comparing the hardware's power... I am not sure where you are getting this from?
Click to expand...
You don't need to use the "wii-mote" like waving... it is just a easy to use way for the controller... you can disable and use the controller in the normal way.
BTW Android/Google TV has more Apps available... most just bad conversions from the Android versions... but the Apps itself are not superior to the ones found in webOS.... the opposite some webOS apps works better than Android TV counterpart.

The TV specs shows the processor that runs the OS.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
ethomaz said:
You don't need to use the "wii-mote" like waving... it is just a easy to use way for the controller... you can disable and use the controller in the normal way.

The TV specs shows the processor that runs the OS.
Click to expand...
Yes you do by default.
LG's TV's don't have better chipsets than the Sony's and this is why Sony(along with Panasonic) have the best picture processing in the industry.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
S0ULZB0URNE said:
Yes you do by default.
LG's TV's don't have better chipsets than the Sony's and this is why Sony(along with Panasonic) have the best picture processing in the industry.
Click to expand...
The webOS with mid-range processor runs better than Android TV in high-end processors.
It is not about chipset itself but performance.

And that has nothing to do with the picture processing chip.
 
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JohnnyFootball

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
SpokkX said:
Tearing or framedrops are basically the same thing. Framerate target is not met

It depends on if vsync is enabled or not in that specific game
Click to expand...
No they're not. In fact they are the result of two completely opposite things happening!

Tearing occurs when the framerates are exceeding the refresh rate, where another frame is being pushed to the screen before the previous one can finish, which is why Vsync forces frames to only come thnat have been finished. Fast Sync mitigates this by sending only the most recently completed frame.

Framedrops occur when the frames drop below the minimum refresh rate and frames get repeated.

I am open that you might be using a definition of framedrop that I have never seen.
 
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StateofMajora

StateofMajora

Banned
I’ve pretty much decided to get the a90j on BF, but it is kind of funny that the c1 is better spec’d in terms of HDMI standards at almost half the current price.

Tbh I fully expect Sony to not update it to VRR, but maybe I’ll be surprised.

It makes no difference to me personally as I’ll be using black frame insertion and outputting 4K/60 so I won’t get blur and VRR couldn’t be used anyway.
 
JohnnyFootball

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
ethomaz said:
I'm not even sure what you guys disagree.

webOS is simple, easy to use and navigage... it doesn't take the full screen so you can manage and shift between apps pretty fast.
It is smooth too... even in the most powerful hardware TVs the Android / Google TV doesn't reach the performance of webOS in not so powerful hardware TVs.

The only advantage Android / Google TV has is the number of Apps avaiable.


Preference is a thing... yes.
But that doesn't change the key advantages in use, performance and navigation that webOS has over Android / Google TV.

I will even say Android was not made to run in TVs at all.
Google always wanted to try to adapt it to TV screens but it is not ideal yet... Google TV UI is a better move in that regard I guess but still is not there.
The biggest issue is that the Android Core is not TV UI friendly and due that they are having a hard time to reach the desired UI for TVs.

I wanted a new Sony TV because two important things for me: LG OLED panel and Sony Image processor.... that combination is killer.
Android TV was a downgrade for me.
In any case Sony left Brasil in 2020 so no TV is being sold here anymore... I had to brought a LG CX for me.
Click to expand...
WebOS is actually an outstanding OS in terms of responsiveness, but............................ it is missing WAYYY too many apps and as such I have to use a Roku. The most obvious app it's missing is HBO Max.

For older TVs, that were using OREO, the performance on Sony TVs of Android was dreadful, but Sony made the switch to Google TV and the results have been much better Im told.
 
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S

SpokkX

Member
JohnnyFootball said:
No they're not. In fact they are the result of two completely opposite things happening!

Tearing occurs when the framerates are exceeding the refresh rate, where another frame is being pushed to the screen before the previous one can finish, which is why Vsync forces frames to only come thnat have been finished. Fast Sync mitigates this by sending only the most recently completed frame.

Framedrops occur when the frames drop below the minimum refresh rate and frames get repeated.

I am open that you might be using a definition of framedrop that I have never seen.
Click to expand...
did not state if to few or too many frames were ready - the target is not met

It is a shorter way of saying what you just said

anyway on topic VRR solves BOTH problems :)
 
JohnnyFootball

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
SpokkX said:
did not state if to few or too many frames were ready - the target is not met

It is a shorter way of saying what you just said

anyway on topic VRR solves BOTH problems :)
Click to expand...
VRR does not solve the problem of FPS exceeding the max refresh rate.
 
rnlval

rnlval

Member
dotnotbot said:
It's not false, he meant far superior contrast with local dimming and high brightness vs shitty edge lit IPS. It looks miles better, slight blur or not, there's just no contest in HDR picture quality between these 2. It's kinda baffling listing DV IQ as an advantage on LG when it has poor HDR performance in the first place.

Remember that HDR/DV is an absolute standard always mastered to be viewed in a controlled environment - pitch black room. It requires as much contrast as you can get so VA (or OLED of course) panel is pretty much essential, IPS even with thousands of dimming zones will always have horrible blooming and super compressed near-black details due to low contrast.

Viewing HDR content in a bright room is pointless. You're losing almost all the advantage High Dynamic Range gives you, especially in the lower end of range. You can't make up for that with TV settings or DV IQ.
Click to expand...
LG Nanocell IPS have a wider view angle, geometry resolution, superior color reproduction. Both IPS vs VA has pros and cons.

My primary usage for my LG Nanocell91 65 inch is for RTX 3080 Ti's HDMI 2.1 VVR/G-Sync and reduced burn-in potential e.g.

HDMI 2.1 VVR/G-Sync @ 4K 120 hz gaming features is my primary purpose for the LG Nanocell IPS. PC monitor 1st, then Netflix as secondary.

I would have bought LG OLED equivalent if Netflix was the primary purpose.
 
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rnlval

rnlval

Member
JohnnyFootball said:
VRR does not solve the problem of FPS exceeding the max refresh rate.
Click to expand...
NVIDIA's Control Panel has a max frame rate setting.

Amaranty said:
X900F has Dolby Vision. At least on Netflix.
Click to expand...
Dolby Vision shouldn't be limited by Netflix.

My statement is based on http://www.sonypremiumhome.com/premium-television/X900F.php

"HDR Certification: HDR 10, HLG, DV & IMA X Enhanced3"

JiEMvwn.jpg


It's Sony's problem to update their corporate websites.
 
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Exoil

Exoil

Member
Exoil said:
Let's see if we really get the VRR update in late 2021. I'm not holding my breath though.
Click to expand...
Well, I'll be damned. I just got the first update with VRR for my XH90. There's another one coming coinciding with Sonys planned VRR update for the PS5 if I understand the information released correctly.
 
Vasto

Vasto

Member
Exoil said:
Well, I'll be damned. I just got the first update with VRR for my XH90. There's another one coming coinciding with Sonys planned VRR update for the PS5 if I understand the information released correctly.
Click to expand...

Updated my 900H yesterday with the VRR update. :messenger_beaming:

Any word on when the next VRR update is coming?
 
cormack12

cormack12

Gold Member
Andodalf said:
It doesn't show it as an option at all on the detect TV screen? You many need to enable it on the TV for that HDMI input, which is the case on some TVs.
Click to expand...
Ill try that again in a bit. When I flick to 120Hz it does say its reduced the resolution to push it.
 
cormack12

cormack12

Gold Member
Yeah just read it now

I tested out the VRR and ALLM update and it works as expected. After updating my TV, a new option was added in the External Inputs – HDMI Signal Format menu. HDMI 3 and HDMI 4 both have Enhanced Format (VRR) added to the options list. Here you can enable and disable the feature
 
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