4K market isn't big enough to carry a new generation of consoles yet so Microsoft & Sony's best bet is to be disruptive (Nintendo level of disruptive)

May 1, 2010
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#1
PS4 Pro 4 released in 2016 , Nintendo Switch released 2017 & Xbox One X released 2017

PS4 Pro / Xbox One X main selling point is that they are 4K versions of PS4 / Xbox One & I doubt if either one of them has sold 10 million units yet but Nintendo Switch can barely do 1080P when docked but Switch is somewhere around 28 million sold as of now & there is nothing standing in it's way or making it to 40 - 50 million by time the PS5 & Xbox Next come out. Also Xbox One S & Xbox One X both play 4K UHD Blu-rays but no one really care.

Next generation is the time to make a move like Nintendo made with the Wii & Switch because not enough people will care about 4K in 2020 the same way the none HD market was still bigger than the HD market in 2006.
 
Mar 23, 2018
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#2
PS4 Pro 4 released in 2016 , Nintendo Switch released 2017 & Xbox One X released 2017

PS4 Pro / Xbox One X main selling point is that they are 4K versions of PS4 / Xbox One & I doubt if either one of them has sold 10 million units yet but Nintendo Switch can barely do 1080P when docked but Switch is somewhere around 28 million sold as of now & there is nothing standing in it's way or making it to 40 - 50 million by time the PS5 & Xbox Next come out. Also Xbox One S & Xbox One X both play 4K UHD Blu-rays but no one really care.

Next generation is the time to make a move like Nintendo made with the Wii & Switch because not enough people will care about 4K in 2020 the same way the none HD market was still bigger than the HD market in 2006.
Nobody cares about blu-rays because nobody uses blu-ray anymore for anything. 4k is a standard thing already in todays age for tv's. try to buy a 1080p aint happening its all 4k even the cheapo trash screens are all 4k these days.

If people don't have a 4k screen it doesn't matter it will downsample or simple give you more performance, not like those games won't work on a 1080p screen.

All people care about is games, if the next series of games come exclusive towards there consoles people will upgrade it's nothing new 4k or not.

The only thing sony and ms has to do is push out a up to date box with there next generation approach for a cheap price and be done with it. The PS5 and xbox 2 will be very much a wii on that front.

However i can see a big step backwards with console focus from all party's to be honest as all party's are basically gearing up for service type of gaming. Consoles will become less and less meaningful.
 
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Gamezone

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#5
Every console game should have the option to choose between 4K or performance. There are still many people without 4K TVs, and Full HD screens are still cheaper. Unless you game or watch 4K movies there's not much reason to spend the extra money.
 
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May 1, 2010
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#7
Nobody cares about blu-rays because nobody uses blu-ray anymore for anything. 4k is a standard thing already in todays age for tv's. try to buy a 1080p aint happening its all 4k even the cheapo trash screens are all 4k these days.

If people don't have a 4k screen it doesn't matter it will downsample or simple give you more performance, not like those games won't work on a 1080p screen.

All people care about is games, if the next series of games come exclusive towards there consoles people will upgrade it's nothing new 4k or not.

The only thing sony and ms has to do is push out a up to date box with there next generation approach for a cheap price and be done with it. The PS5 and xbox 2 will be very much a wii on that front.

However i can see a big step backwards with console focus from all party's to be honest as all party's are basically gearing up for service type of gaming. Consoles will become less and less meaningful.

And how would you convince publishers to release exclusives for your console if it's just a more powerful version of your older console which also already has a more powerful version that came out a few years ago?
 
May 1, 2010
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#8
To be fair, PS4 Pro doesn’t support true and native 4K. It’s just this checkerboard fake 4K.

Xbox one X on the other hand supports true native 4K, e.g. RDR2 runs native 4K only ok Xbox one X.
Even with people falsely believing that Xbox One X is the only console that can do native 4K it's still not selling as much as PS4 which is my point.
 
Jan 12, 2018
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#9
I don’t agree. Look at Sony, they don’t neccessarily need power but they don’t need to rely on gimmicks either to sell nearly 100m ps4’s. As for 4K, walk into a Walmart, Target or Best Buy and you’ll see that 4K has already begun phasing out 2k TVs with prices as low as $230. People do care about 4K and plenty have already migrated or will likely migrate within the next couple years. Personally, I want next gen to emphasis 4K at 60fps.
 
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Jan 12, 2018
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#11
Every console game should have the option to choose between 4K or performance. There are still many people without 4K TVs, and Full HD screens are still cheaper. Unless you game or watch 4K movies there's not much reason to spend the extra money.
Being coerced into jumping from the HD revolution to the 4K revolution so soon, with just increased number of pixels as the "graphics leap" between generations is very, very cheap from the console makers & devs alike. A scene from Avatar featuring nothing but CGI at 720p will blow Battlefield V at 4K (with ray tracing or whatever bells & whistles enabled) out of the water in terms of visuals, ergo the gaming industry currently has the wrong priorities. There's so much more to graphics & picture quality than perpetually upping the pixel count. But TV manufacturers want the latter, so here we are.

Money grabbing is dictating the market right now.
 
Oct 22, 2013
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#12
Nobody cares about blu-rays because nobody uses blu-ray anymore for anything. 4k is a standard thing already in todays age for tv's. try to buy a 1080p aint happening its all 4k even the cheapo trash screens are all 4k these days.

If people don't have a 4k screen it doesn't matter it will downsample or simple give you more performance, not like those games won't work on a 1080p screen.

All people care about is games, if the next series of games come exclusive towards there consoles people will upgrade it's nothing new 4k or not.

The only thing sony and ms has to do is push out a up to date box with there next generation approach for a cheap price and be done with it. The PS5 and xbox 2 will be very much a wii on that front.

However i can see a big step backwards with console focus from all party's to be honest as all party's are basically gearing up for service type of gaming. Consoles will become less and less meaningful.

Exactly I was gonna ask what type of brand is he smoking. 4K market is ready there's no ifs or buts. I'm glad it's only OPs opinion and it's perfectly fine ..otherwise makes zero sense.
 
Apr 12, 2013
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#13
Nah, unless you mean something like the next version of VR, and/or Gamepass coming to everything like Netflix. Those will be the biggest things next gen imo. Crossplay will be the norm hopefully...all stuff that's started this gen that will be improved and expanded in the next.

Other than that I think they both just need some powerful and easy to develop for systems (MS less so unless they're jumping into VR as well) and we'll be good until 2026 or so.
 
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Mar 3, 2014
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#14
PS4 Pro 4 released in 2016 , Nintendo Switch released 2017 & Xbox One X released 2017

PS4 Pro / Xbox One X main selling point is that they are 4K versions of PS4 / Xbox One & I doubt if either one of them has sold 10 million units yet but Nintendo Switch can barely do 1080P when docked but Switch is somewhere around 28 million sold as of now & there is nothing standing in it's way or making it to 40 - 50 million by time the PS5 & Xbox Next come out. Also Xbox One S & Xbox One X both play 4K UHD Blu-rays but no one really care.

Next generation is the time to make a move like Nintendo made with the Wii & Switch because not enough people will care about 4K in 2020 the same way the none HD market was still bigger than the HD market in 2006.
Perhaps the fact that tens of millions of people already owned consoles that play the same games as the X and Pro affected sales. Hmm...
 
Likes: FeldMonster
May 1, 2010
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#15
I don’t agree. Look at Sony, they don’t neccessarily need power but they don’t need to rely on gimmicks either to sell nearly 100m ps4’s. As for 4K, walk into a Walmart, Target or Best Buy and you’ll see that 4K has already begun phasing out 2k TVs with prices as low as $230. People do care about 4K and plenty have already migrated or will likely migrate within the next couple years. Personally, I want next gen to emphasis 4K at 60fps.
PS4 was 8 years after Xbox 360 brought in the HD gaming console era & it was so many HDTVs that PS4 & Xbox One could release with only HDMI outputs & not even worry about people not having HDTVs to play them on.

Just 3 years ago people didn't even believe that we could get a 4K console at a reasonable price but now that we have them the generation should either be extended or the next consoles will need a different angle. they used up one of the die shrinks on PS4 Pro & Xbox One X so the raw power jump isn't going to be that big unless the price is pushed up & that would just put them in the "why not just get a PC" boat


I'm not saying they shouldn't make a 4K console I'm saying they need to do something else to separate the PS5/Xbox Next from PS4 Pro & Xbox One X because they just used the 4K card.
 
Jan 15, 2018
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NO! Hell no.

Nintendo’s strategy is completed shit for hardcore gamers.

And Sony has the winning strategy ... obviously. Unless you completely ignore everything that happened this generation and how Sony dominates by embracing core gamers and not worthless niche casual gaming gimmicks.

Cardboard .... Nintendo legitimately tried to sell consumers fucking cardboard. buahahhahahhahab
 
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#19
PS4 was 8 years after Xbox 360 brought in the HD gaming console era & it was so many HDTVs that PS4 & Xbox One could release with only HDMI outputs & not even worry about people not having HDTVs to play them on.

Just 3 years ago people didn't even believe that we could get a 4K console at a reasonable price but now that we have them the generation should either be extended or the next consoles will need a different angle. they used up one of the die shrinks on PS4 Pro & Xbox One X so the raw power jump isn't going to be that big unless the price is pushed up & that would just put them in the "why not just get a PC" boat


I'm not saying they shouldn't make a 4K console I'm saying they need to do something else to separate the PS5/Xbox Next from PS4 Pro & Xbox One X because they just used the 4K card.
The CPU upgrade alone will be worth upgrading to the next console.
 

Fbh

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#20
why are you assuming resolution is the only thing next gen systems will have to offer? There's also going to be a jump in graphics and maybe , with rumours of these new consoles having decent CPU's, better performance and stuff like more impressive physics, etc.

Look at the PS4 and how well it did this gen and yet it was never advertised as reaching resolutions that the PS3 couldn't. Yeah it reached 1080p way more frequently but it was never the main selling point. Nicer looking games than anything on last gen and games like Battlefield finally offering the full 64player experience where the changes that appealed to people. No one was like "oh but it's 1080p and we already have console that can do that "


Yes the Switch is doing well but that doesn't negate that there's a big market for a next gen of "power focused" systems
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
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#21
To be fair, PS4 Pro doesn’t support true and native 4K. It’s just this checkerboard fake 4K.

Xbox one X on the other hand supports true native 4K, e.g. RDR2 runs native 4K only ok Xbox one X.
Are you willing to prove or retract this claim?

Not talking about you, but too often i see people claim statements, evidence is asked to back it up and then they never come back to said topic despite being quoted. False pride forbading that you admit that you are wrong, or what?

To be fair, PS4 Pro DOES support true 4k. Its just, they don't hit it native as much as the 1X does. Lets not start with false facts eh?
Egg-actly. PS4 Pro is very much a 4K machine like X. It just does it on a more limited subset of games. Certainly at launch you had quite a few games hitting native 3840x2160 on the thing.
 
May 9, 2016
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#22
Exactly I was gonna ask what type of brand is he smoking. 4K market is ready there's no ifs or buts. I'm glad it's only OPs opinion and it's perfectly fine ..otherwise makes zero sense.
I don't know if I'm in the minority market-wise, but I'm nor ready to invest in a new TV/monitor.

This next gen potentially feels like the PS3/360 leap, where if you're not upgrading you screen you're not really getting much out of your console, save playing the latest games. I can't afford a whole new setup and a new console anytime soon. This is where the market may be ready, but I am not.

As far as the market being ready - maybe I drank the Cerny-Aid, but I'm far more interested in HDR, and I don't want to nerd down on TV tech and specs to know if a TV is going to be properly compatible. HDMI 2.1, 8-bit, 10-bit, Dolby Vision... I have no idea what this shit is, and if I have to talk to Best Buy employee for more than 5 seconds, I'd rather just not get involved.

Plus, if this is a CRT to HD jump where all my old games now look like ass on the thing that's supposed to look better, I can really wait it out.
 
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Jeff D

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May 24, 2018
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#23
PS4 Pro 4 released in 2016 , Nintendo Switch released 2017 & Xbox One X released 2017

PS4 Pro / Xbox One X main selling point is that they are 4K versions of PS4 / Xbox One
Pro's not a 4k version of the PS4, don't know where you got that from. faux K maybe, but certainly not 4K.

Next generation is the time to make a move like Nintendo made with the Wii & Switch because not enough people will care about 4K in 2020 the same way the none HD market was still bigger than the HD market in 2006.
4K is the standard as of right now in TV and has been for over a year, so i fail to understand your logic at all.

To be fair, PS4 Pro DOES support true 4k. Its just, they don't hit it native as much as the 1X does. Lets not start with false facts eh?
not true at all, very rarely does a Pro hit native 4k if at all when compared to an X.
 
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Teslerum

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#26
why are you assuming resolution is the only thing next gen systems will have to offer? There's also going to be a jump in graphics and maybe , with rumours of these new consoles having decent CPU's, better performance and stuff like more impressive physics, etc.
Not as big a leap as if we stayed at 1080p. In fact due to pixelcount increasing exponentially that leap will become smaller and smaller due to the resources utilized to play in said resolutions.

Which is why I really hope it stays at 4k max for a while. Hell, for most tv sizes 1080p was already plenty enough.
 
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Jeff D

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May 24, 2018
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#27
Even with people falsely believing that Xbox One X is the only console that can do native 4K it's still not selling as much as PS4 which is my point.
what's false about it, faux K on the Pro is not Native/true 4k. point your eyes to Digital Foundry, they may enlighten you on what machine can deliver on 4K or are you one of those guys that suddenly thinks the P's don't matter now that Xbox delivers more.
 
Jan 12, 2018
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Biggest issue is that 4k requires a large TV to clearly see the difference. Not many have space for that
Consoles & gaming are (IMO) at risk of becoming a hardcore techie hobby, with the 'enjoyment' factor resting upon having a whole bunch of combining toys, such as 4K, the newest surround sound systems & HDR etc.
 
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Likes: petran79
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#29
PS2 & Wii slapped Xbox 360 & PS3 around for years & PS4 & Switch will do the same thing to PS5 & Xbox Next if they try to sell off of 4K visuals alone



PlayStation 2 Still Dominating PS3, Xbox 360


Since its inception in late 2000 Sony's PlayStation 2 has sold a reported 115 million units worldwide making it the best selling console in history. And given its affordable price and large library of games, it shows no signs of slowing.

"We encourage third parties to continue development for PS2. If they bring a PS3 version out, they can bring a PS2 version out as well," said Sony'sDavid Reeves in an interview with Reuters. "There is a lot of money still."

Indeed there is as PS2 sales continue to impress. The last-gen console has outsold Sony's new flagship, the PlayStation 3, every month since the latter first launched this past October. By comparison, Microsoft's Xbox 360 has only outsold the PS2 twice during its 21 month life. The PS2 has even outsold the popular Wii on several occasions, though the Nintendo console outperforms the PS2 more often than not.







"What happened last time with PS1 is that they left a lot of money on the table by making the transition too quickly," Reeves added. As was the case with the first PlayStation, new PS2 games are expected for another two to three years.
 
May 1, 2010
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what's false about it, faux K on the Pro is not Native/true 4k. point your eyes to Digital Foundry, they may enlighten you on what machine can deliver on 4K or are you one of those guys that suddenly thinks the P's don't matter now that Xbox delivers more.
I know you see that list of 4K native PS4 Pro games posted in this thread
 
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#32
Convenience, portability (even if that takes the form of streaming/Remote Play'ing to your chosen device), and UI performance will end up mattering a lot more than raw power in the next generation. The smartest decision would be to ape Nintendo's hybrid idea, just make it more powerful.

Consider who the mass-market audience is. The hardcore power-hungry gamers will be in the minority this upcoming gen. Smartphone customers will be the ones determining which console wins the day.
 
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#33
You can’t even count the Switch as competition to the PS4 or the Xbox One. No one I know uses the switch as a home console. Everyone that’s bought one used it on the road or st work and on the small screen the graphical differences are less noticeable. Plus almost everyone buys exclusively Nintendo games or indies.

The Switch is more of a replacement to the 3DS than the Wii U. Nintendo simply merged the 2 since they knew they couldn’t be in direct competition with the big players yet keep their portable legacy going which is still huge in their homeland.

Lots of people prefer the nicer experience of playing on PS4 or Xbox One. It’s the reason I sold my Switch, I couldn’t stand looking at the blurry graphics on my 60 inch TV and I found my iPhone or my 3DS XL to be more than enough on the road.

I’m in the military and switch is huge here because it’s perfect when in the field and easier to carry than a laptop. At home though most people go back to their other console/Pc.

I see myself not needing it anymore with xCloud coming out shortly and good Internet being available pretty much everywhere I go when I visit my family so I’ll just stream to my laptop/iPhone .

Gamers don’t want gimmicks, they want better, faster, more powerful consoles. This gen they brought picture and video sharing and streaming and like others have said, the Netflix model is what will define next gen along with better graphics and 4K now being the new baseline. Cross play will also most likely be a big thing.
 
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#34
Next generation is the time to make a move like Nintendo made with the Wii & Switch because not enough people will care about 4K in 2020 the same way the none HD market was still bigger than the HD market in 2006.
Then it's a good thing that they make games too, right? Coming into the next generation, 4K won't be a selling point like it is now. It will be a standard. Like always, new tech will be always be cool, but the actual games themselves will be what sells the consoles.

Also, looking at sales data for X1X and Pro is misleading due to the fact that MS and Sony are cannibalizing those numbers by still selling base models at heavily reduced prices.
 
#35
I'm personally not fussed about 4k and 1080p is enough for me, I'd rather the power went elsewhere instead of a resolution that does not appeal to me.

But that said I understand some people want it and next gen has to be 4k supported and hopefully they support both resolutions but 1080p has more sparkles.
 
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#36
PS4 Pro 4 released in 2016 , Nintendo Switch released 2017 & Xbox One X released 2017

PS4 Pro / Xbox One X main selling point is that they are 4K versions of PS4 / Xbox One & I doubt if either one of them has sold 10 million units yet but Nintendo Switch can barely do 1080P when docked but Switch is somewhere around 28 million sold as of now & there is nothing standing in it's way or making it to 40 - 50 million by time the PS5 & Xbox Next come out. Also Xbox One S & Xbox One X both play 4K UHD Blu-rays but no one really care.

Next generation is the time to make a move like Nintendo made with the Wii & Switch because not enough people will care about 4K in 2020 the same way the none HD market was still bigger than the HD market in 2006.
Well, switch is handheld. (With tv out)

Ps4/xbox are home consoles.

So different markets.

Try to release home console that barely runs modern games 720p like switch does = failure.

They can Call it hybrid all they want, but it still basically is like psp with tv-out dock.


And yes, 4k is stupid waste of power, 1080p is enough for most users that sit +2m from the tv.
 
Oct 22, 2013
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#39
I don't know if I'm in the minority market-wise, but I'm nor ready to invest in a new TV/monitor.

This next gen potentially feels like the PS3/360 leap, where if you're not upgrading you screen you're not really getting much out of your console, save playing the latest games. I can't afford a whole new setup and a new console anytime soon. This is where the market may be ready, but I am not.

As far as the market being ready - maybe I drank the Cerny-Aid, but I'm far more interested in HDR, and I don't want to nerd down on TV tech and specs to know if a TV is going to be properly compatible. HDMI 2.1, 8-bit, 10-bit, Dolby Vision... I have no idea what this shit is, and if I have to talk to Best Buy employee for more than 5 seconds, I'd rather just not get involved.

Plus, if this is a CRT to HD jump where all my old games now look like ass on the thing that's supposed to look better, I can really wait it out.

You can really score a solid 4K set nowadays especially during BF..or just any random Amazon sale..its doable and affordable, and worth every penny just for 4K+HDR glory...trust.
 
May 1, 2010
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#41
Ehh, no. They won't have the same problem if you can't play their games on PS4 and XB1.
And what is going to be in the PS5/Xbox Next hardware that's going to make it so that devs wouldn't even bother with a PS4/Xbox One version of these games in the 1st few years?

Is DirectX 13 GPUs coming out next year or something?
 
Jun 13, 2017
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#42
This thead:

People who don't understand just because a console isn't running a game a 4k it doesn't mean it doesn't support 4k

People who seem to think everyone is going to buy 4k screens, not everyone lives in the US/some part of Europe, it may be cheap for you but 300$ is really fucking expensive for some countries.
 
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#43
Okay, the way I see it, a huge risk is there no matter what path they choose to follow.

Doing it the expected way, and going for 4K could work. But the risk this time is the highest it's ever been for this model.

And doing it disruptively is just as risky. Especially for companies that don't have the DNA to do it, and hit the ground running. So I'm not sure exactly what I would do.

Probably, it would be best for companies like MS and Sony, to follow the usual path, and go 4K. But it's gonna take a lot of energy and time, to get it going. It's not gonna be as easy as it has been in the past. Good luck Sony and MS, gonna need it..
 
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#44
And what is going to be in the PS5/Xbox Next hardware that's going to make it so that devs wouldn't even bother with a PS4/Xbox One version of these games in the 1st few years?

Is DirectX 13 GPUs coming out next year or something?
I don't know. What stopped them last time? You're totally right, man. Just look at how much damage the existence of PS3 and 360 did to this gen's sales. Sony and MS really need to DO SOMETHING or next gen is doomed. I'm CONCERNED.
 
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#45
To be fair, PS4 Pro doesn’t support true and native 4K. It’s just this checkerboard fake 4K.

Xbox one X on the other hand supports true native 4K, e.g. RDR2 runs native 4K only ok Xbox one X.
wipeout omega runs at native 4k 60 fps and hdr on ps4 pro. Same for bound and burnout paradise remaster


pretty sure others do but I don't have a list
 
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Jan 27, 2018
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#46
OP is right. You can target the niche of enthusiasts who want the latest and best tech and resomalutions, but it's a fairly small group.

However, I don't have any other ideas here; and I kinda think neither Sony nor MS do either. There's VR, suppose -- but the niche of those "willing to endure nausea and looking ridiculous" is probably even smaller.
 
Jun 8, 2004
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#47
Every console game should have the option to choose between 4K or performance. There are still many people without 4K TVs, and Full HD screens are still cheaper. Unless you game or watch 4K movies there's not much reason to spend the extra money.
Choosing between resolution and performance in all games would be great, unfortunately some games are bound by other factors than raw GPU power (CPU, memory, etc) so the trade off just wouldn’t be possible.
 
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#48
Will 4K really be that niche by the time the next PlayStation and Xbox systems are on the market? You can already get a decent 4K set for less than $500 if you play your cards right. By 2020/2021 the only 1080p sets left might be small ones where you wouldn't see the difference.

Besides, remember that console makers have to target what you'll see for the lifecycle of the console, not just its early days. I'd hate to have a system that makes poor use of 4K in a generation where 4K TVs are guaranteed to dominate.
 
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Nov 24, 2018
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#50
It's all about the games and marketing successfully as it has always been. I doubt they'll be disruptive, maybe they'll put more emphasis on VR/AR capabilities but I still wouldn't expect it to be a thing right out of the box, always as an extra add on purchase, bundling it (without an opt out option) would both make the system too expensive and gimp the rest of the capabilities to keep the price somewhat sensible. I would like for them to have the VR motion controllers double as regular (and Wii-like) controllers though, that would make the eventual VR add ons seem cheaper when you already have (paid for) the pads.

There's still a TON of room for visual improvements, there's a reason not every game is 4K/60fps on the Xbox One X and games will only get far better looking while hopefully maintaining such settings the next generation though it's also likely that to push visual fidelity they'll opt for lower resolution and frame rate quite often, we'll just have to wait and see what kind of specs they have and what game developers strive for. You don't need another bump in TV resolution specs to offer vastly increased visual quality that can make people go wow just as going from PS1 to PS2 or PS2 to PS3.
 
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