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5.1 Headphones ok for gaming?

My old surround system is getting OLD, and I'm thinking of improving to a new setup, but then I remember the hard time my family gives all the time for the high volume, interrupting my game frequently.

So I thought going headphones, is it as good as speakers? Do they give the same quality?

I think if the answer is yes then it would also be "it depends on the headphones", so I'm looking for help about that, too. :)
 

Mamesj

Banned
Just save cash and put it towards a really good pair of regular headphones. You don't need surround sound when the speakers are right on your ears...
 
Mamesj said:
You don't need surround sound when the speakers are right on your ears...
I really don't think so.

Then why do people bother with surround systems in the first place if it's the same as regular headphones? :/
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
From the research I've done, there aren't really any great ones. I have the AX360's, which are supposed to be among the better ones (if not the best), but having to plug them into an AC adapter and then tweak all settings, combined with the large size and uncomfortableness, means I rarely use them. So I'd say no. I just value comfort and convenience a lot in headphones and 5.1 headphones offer nothing in either category.
 

Chorazin

Member
I have Sennheiser HD 595's and even though they aren't 5.1, I can still detect distance and direction since they have such amazing sound quality. Great for movies, music, and games.
 
1. Awesome headphones are indeed awesome. I never really use them myself, but I've tried my friends' before and they always seem surprisingly accurate.

2. They're great if you, A. don't want to annoy others with sound, B. are annoyed by the sound of others.

3. On that last point, good headphones can sometimes feel even more immersive than regular surround sound if said speakers are tainted by traffic, neighbours, etc. You get sort of lost within your headphones; great for immersion.

4. Consider comfort though... Do you really want a pair of headphones on all the time?

Both options can be great; just consider your situation.
 

Raist

Banned
Even if some "5.1" headsets are pretty good, it's nowhere near the quality and immersion of a 5.1 system.

But well, if you don't have the choice, I guess you could go for this kind of headset. Bit of an overkill IMO but why not. Be prepared to spend around $300 if you want good stuff tho.
 

Mercutio

Member
5.1 sound is nice, but if you have 6 crappy speakers, why bother? Most headphones with 5.1 sound are shrill on one end with huge, messy bad bass on the other.

What you want is a standard headphone with soundstage. I played Bioshock entirely with Beyerdynamic DT770-80 headphones, and it was easily on par with using my full surround system. I was actually a little better at positioning with them on.

Check out:
Beyerdynamic DT770-80 ($150-$200 at a Guitar Center or eBay)
Audiotechnica A900 ($200 or so, www.audiocubes.com)

If you really want to get into headphones, head on over to www.head-fi.org and start researching. Many others have shown up there with questions about 5.1 headphones and general gaming on phones.
 

Mindlog

Member
Mercutio said:
5.1 sound is nice, but if you have 6 crappy speakers, why bother? Most headphones with 5.1 sound are shrill on one end with huge, messy bad bass on the other.

What you want is a standard headphone with soundstage. I played Bioshock entirely with Beyerdynamic DT770-80 headphones, and it was easily on par with using my full surround system. I was actually a little better at positioning with them on.

Check out:
Beyerdynamic DT770-80 ($150-$200 at a Guitar Center or eBay)
Audiotechnica A900 ($200 or so, www.audiocubes.com)

If you really want to get into headphones, head on over to www.head-fi.org and start researching. Many others have shown up there with questions about 5.1 headphones and general gaming on phones.


This is an excellent post.

http://www.headphone.com/ is not a bad site either.

Binaural audio is great, I wish sound technology was pushed a little harder to be able to get this effect more consistently in games.

I started with a Senn PC-150 headset and was impressed with the improvement it provided over my Plantronics headset. So then I graduated to the HD-580 and I've been exploring 'higher-end' headphones ever since. There's a lot of nuance to each brand so you need to do a little research to find the sound you prefer, but they will all give you great sound and will undoubtedly be better than most '5.1' headphones.


hoho0001.jpg



better late than never with the pic :D
 

theBishop

Banned
Stay away from 5.1 headphones.

When Grado, Sennheiser, BeyerDynamic, or any other reputable headphones maker makes one, then it might be worth considering.

If you're dead-set on having surround-sound in headphones, I would consider that Dolby box that Sho Nuff linked to.

That plus a set of cans with good soundstage will blow away anything Turtle Beach or Zalman make.
 

Sho Nuff

Banned
theBishop said:
Stay away from 5.1 headphones.

When Grado, Sennheiser, BeyerDynamic, or any other reputable headphones maker makes one, then it might be worth considering.

If you're dead-set on having surround-sound in headphones, I would consider that Dolby box that Sho Nuff linked to.

That plus a set of cans with good soundstage will blow away anything Turtle Beach or Zalman make.

That Dolby box combined with a pair of cans with a great soundstage is pretty mind-blowing. The problem is that hardly any receivers use Dolby Headphone so everyone is missing out, plus the American version of that Dolby Box hasn't got a damn AC adapter. WTF
 

Rur0ni

Member
I have some Sennheiser HD280 Pros, they were like $90 from NewEgg. With the X-Fi, in the front bay jack, and CMSS3D or whatever, I hear directional/depth, just like with my old '5.1' Headphones (Kinyo $50 ones with an amp, very cheap sucky ones).

Was surprised when sounds outside the headphones were cut off, and it had some bass. I was shocked, and ashamed I had gone so long without such quality.

I was looking into the Beyerdynamic DT770s though, but then all the talk of "driving" and "amps" just annoyed me. Quite happy with what I have.

When it comes to gaming, sounds/positioning yourself > seeing. I get called waller and get votebanned regularly if I don't play on a server where I know the admins.

Sound sound sound.
 

Mamesj

Banned
L0st Id3ntity said:
I really don't think so.

Then why do people bother with surround systems in the first place if it's the same as regular headphones? :/


So they don't have to wear headphones and because sometimes people watch movies/play games with other people.
 

theBishop

Banned
L0st Id3ntity said:
I really don't think so.

Then why do people bother with surround systems in the first place if it's the same as regular headphones? :/

How many people do you know place their entire 5.1 setup less than an inch away from their ears?
 
I got Sennheiser's for Christmas and I love them. I can't believe how much sound I have been missing from my games.

Stock up on rechargeable batteries if you have the wireless ones that don't come with a charger though.

I'm thinking I can convince the wife to buy me the Sennheiser surround sound headphones in a year or so.

;)
 
Thanks for the responses everybody.

I think I'll go with JVC SU-DH1, still not decided.
theBishop said:
How many people do you know place their entire 5.1 setup less than an inch away from their ears?
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not very well informed about sound systems, that's why I'm asking for advice.

So if my statement was somehow inaccurate, excuse my ignorance. ;)
 

Mindlog

Member
Just making sure :]
Keep in mind the 'JVC SU-DH1' is just something that exists between your source and your headphones. If you get that you would still need to purchase some headphones. Amazon had a killer deal when they were getting rid of their HD-580 stock.

I'm reading up a lot on it now because I am curious hehe. For ~$90 on Amazon I think I'm going to give it a shot. It eats batteries like crazy, butI can mod a power adapter onto it.
 

Mercutio

Member
Rur0ni said:
I have some Sennheiser HD280 Pros, they were like $90 from NewEgg. With the X-Fi, in the front bay jack, and CMSS3D or whatever, I hear directional/depth, just like with my old '5.1' Headphones (Kinyo $50 ones with an amp, very cheap sucky ones).

Was surprised when sounds outside the headphones were cut off, and it had some bass. I was shocked, and ashamed I had gone so long without such quality.

I was looking into the Beyerdynamic DT770s though, but then all the talk of "driving" and "amps" just annoyed me. Quite happy with what I have.

When it comes to gaming, sounds/positioning yourself > seeing. I get called waller and get votebanned regularly if I don't play on a server where I know the admins.

Sound sound sound.

Headphones can be tricky to drive, but there are a few things you should keep in mind.

At the peak of my addiction, I was running one of the first pairs of the Grado GS1000 and Grado RS1 out of my Melos SHA1 headphone amp. I've also owned and borrowed many solid state amps, and been privileged enough to own both a headphile custom HP3000 and for a while I had the infamous ear-speaker AKG K1000.

I learned many things in my adventures to the top of headphone-dom. Foremost, all sound is relative. The quality of amplification and the benefits change from headphone to headphone and amp to amp. Some headphones respond well and some do not. And, regardless of what some hardcore headphone-o-philes will tell you, many consumer devices contain excellent amps that can pair with and drive fantastic headphones very well. To this day, the PSP is one of the most dynamic mp3 players out there. I wouldn't call it smooth, but it really is dynamic. The trick in figuring out what works is simply trial and error. Your ears are different than mine, and most people seem to forget this.

However, here are some nice guidelines:

1. Burn in is real, as far as I am concerned. Your headphones will sound better over time. Be it the membranes settling and breaking in to the vibrations moving through them or your own ears adjusting to them, a good pair of headphones that uses drivers will sound better with age.

2. Don't only trust the ohm rating on a headphone's box or stat sheet, but it can help. Check around on head-fi or read about them at headphone.com. Their tastes may differ from yours, but more on that later. Generally speaking, amplification can make any headphone BETTER, but it isn't totally necessary for it to sound good in the first place. Your iPod can't drive a Sennheiser HD650 (something like 300 ohms) but it CAN drive the Beyerdynamic DT770-80 (80 ohms) reasonably well. Audiotechnica headphones are also easy to drive for the most part. AKGs on the other hand can be very tricky to drive right.

3. There are headphone fanboys, and they are just as bad as console or HD format fanboys. Their ears ARE different than yours, and what sounds amazing to them might sound like crap to you. Example: I hate the HD280 with a firey passion. It has no dynamic for me, and sounds cold and distant. By the same token, you might hate Grado phones, whereas they really tickle my fancy. Personally think that the DT770-80 is much easier to drive than the HD280.

Good places to shop are:
www.headphone.com : They have their own specific tastes and will be very up-front with you in their ratings of a particular phone. They love Sennheisers and AKG phones, but not Grado as much. Their prices are excellent.

Guitar Center : Get your DT770-80 here, and ONLY the -80 version. Make SURE you check the ohm rating (the 80) on a 770 before you buy it, as the other versions are harder to drive and don't sound as good.

www.audiocubes.com : Your one stop shop for japanese phones.

www.head-fi.org : A massive community of headphone fans means a great sale / trade forum. Tons of amazing deals, and headphones keep value VERY well. If it sounds good now, it's going to sound good in 5 years... unlike other types of technology.

jr.com and bhphotovideo.com are both good places, especially for good deals on Sennheiser headphones.

EDIT: Some photos of the phones mentioned here.

The DT770-80. Unbelievably durable with many user-serviceable parts. Very light and comfortable, despite the "old school" look.
ST00046.jpg


The popular A900 Audiotechnica phone. Much loved by fans of Japanese stuffs and gamers.
4961310070373.jpg


Headphile's HP3000 headphone. Very hard to find now, made custom from 2 rarer headphones with wood finishing. Wood is used mostly because of its pleasant resonant properties.
2.jpg


The Grado GS1000 on top of an Audiotechnica woodie phone.
Grado%20GS1000%20(1).jpg


The AKG K1000 earspeaker. Discontinued, unlike anything else. Requires a nice speaker amp to drive.
ModK1000Blue6.jpg
 

Davidion

Member
jett said:
What's "headphone drive"?

Driving the headphones = powering the headphones. Unknown to most people who are not headphone enthusiasts, many high-end headphones actually can't be sufficiently powered by certain sources. ie. When Mercutio mentioned that the ipod can't drive a Sennheiser HD650, it literally means that it can't output enough power to make the headphones sound like it's supposed to.

This thread reminded me that I need to grab a pair of Audio-technicas. Damn you lurking upgraditis...
 

theBishop

Banned
L0st Id3ntity said:
Thanks for the responses everybody.

I think I'll go with JVC SU-DH1, still not decided.

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not very well informed about sound systems, that's why I'm asking for advice.

So if my statement was somehow inaccurate, excuse my ignorance. ;)

Not trying to be a dick, i'm just saying, there's a big difference between 4 bookshelf speakers surrounding you and having 4 tinny speakers half an inch from your ear. You probably can't perceive depth that tight.

I think you have your priorities in the wrong order. You should be shopping good headphones before you start shopping Dolby doodads. Good headphones without the dolby kit is far-and-away better than shitty headphones with the dolby. Hell, I'd rather see you skip the dolby unit completely and put the $100 toward even better cans.
 

Mercutio

Member
Davidion said:
Driving the headphones = powering the headphones. Unknown to most people who are not headphone enthusiasts, many high-end headphones actually can't be sufficiently powered by certain sources. ie. When Mercutio mentioned that the ipod can't drive a Sennheiser HD650, it literally means that it can't output enough power to make the headphones sound like it's supposed to.

This thread reminded me that I need to grab a pair of Audio-technicas. Damn you lurking upgraditis...

They're pretty, but I've never been a huge fan of the sound. I really like the W5000 and some of the older woodies, but the A900 never sounded great to me. There was a limited edition A900 around for a while that DID sound a bit better... normally the midrange is pretty sucked out. I think they're doing a new titanium housed version... metal looks cosmetic, but hey, shiny!

audio-technica_ath-a900ti.jpg


Nothing beats that wing design for comfort though. Those things just melt away on your head.
 

Davidion

Member
Caesar III said:
http://www.mueller2000.ch/holophonics/holo.html
just click the MP3 examples and use regular headphones! especially the virtual haircut!

it depends on the software and your soundcard. The X-Fi cards make surround sound like these mp3s

Actually that may not be entirely correct. I can't listen to this on my crappy work speakers but if I'm not mistaken, that link leads to a bunch of Holophonic recordings. These MP3s sound the way they do because they're recorded in a certain fashion and has nothing to do with the output source. Somehow I doubt the x-fi card or any other consumer hardware can reproduce this effect from any old sound recordings.
 
i just listened to the dolby headphone demos on http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/headphone.html with my sennheiser 555s. it certainly sounds good (much livelier than stereo) but in terms of the surround effect it didn't convince me at all.
does anybody have some actual game playing experience with 5.1 dd/dts over dolby headphone? like in a multiplayer fps, can u reliably locate footsteps?

edit: the virtual haircut is amazing though!
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
the problem with that amp is that you need to plug optical cables into it. So I can't use it for all my equipment unless my amp happens to pass 5.1 out via optical (it might, I haven't checked)

Also the PS3 is no good if its LPCM via HDMI.

What I'd like is one of two things:

1) Amp manufacturers to have a DSP mode which takes whatever input is selected and converts to Dolby Headphone. Basically what that little victor amp is doing, but built into a receiver. Then I don't have to mess with my home theater setup and can listen to anything via headphones when loud isn't possible

2) Games console manufactuers (or games developers) to include a Dolby Headphone mode. Most already have stereo/DPLII/DD5.1 options, and are mixing positional audio discretely, so why not add a Dolby Headphone filter? Then I can just plug my headphones into my receiver and listen via direct stereo.
 

Davidion

Member
Mercutio said:
They're pretty, but I've never been a huge fan of the sound. I really like the W5000 and some of the older woodies, but the A900 never sounded great to me. There was a limited edition A900 around for a while that DID sound a bit better... normally the midrange is pretty sucked out. I think they're doing a new titanium housed version... metal looks cosmetic, but hey, shiny!

Nothing beats that wing design for comfort though. Those things just melt away on your head.

Aww, you totally just deflated my excitement for a bit...the A900's were exactly want I wanted too. I knew they were warm but I didn't know about the mid-range. What balls...:(

I do love the wings system too, though my friend's were cracked after a bit; you have to baby them a little it seems. I also agree on the shiny. :lol

What's your rec for a mid-ranged warm and closed phone? Beyer 770's?
 
theBishop said:
I think you have your priorities in the wrong order. You should be shopping good headphones before you start shopping Dolby doodads. Good headphones without the dolby kit is far-and-away better than shitty headphones with the dolby. Hell, I'd rather see you skip the dolby unit completely and put the $100 toward even better cans.
No I had headphones in mind already, I'm going to get everything once not seperately if I decide on headphones.

I'm looking into the Sennheiser HD-280, the guy in the blog Sho posted got it and praised it, and a couple of guys talked good about it in this thread, too.
 

Mercutio

Member
Davidion said:
Actually that may not be entirely correct. I can't listen to this on my crappy work speakers but if I'm not mistaken, that link leads to a bunch of Holophonic recordings. These MP3s sound the way they do because they're recorded in a certain fashion and has nothing to do with the output source. Somehow I doubt the x-fi card or any other consumer hardware can reproduce this effect from any old sound recordings.

Those are binural recordings I think. They require very expensive and specific microphones, often placed in a dummy head.
 
Davidion said:
Aww, you totally just deflated my excitement for a bit...the A900's were exactly want I wanted too. I knew they were warm but I didn't know about the mid-range. What balls...:(

I do love the wings system too, though my friend's were cracked after a bit; you have to baby them a little it seems. I also agree on the shiny. :lol

What's your rec for a mid-ranged warm and closed phone? Beyer 770's?


no don't purchase a900s there overpriced. just pick up the a700s. they're cheaper and most hi-fi comparisons claim that their really is no noticeable difference.
 

Mercutio

Member
Davidion said:
Aww, you totally just deflated my excitement for a bit...the A900's were exactly want I wanted too. I knew they were warm but I didn't know about the mid-range. What balls...:(

I do love the wings system too, though my friend's were cracked after a bit; you have to baby them a little it seems. I also agree on the shiny. :lol

What's your rec for a mid-ranged warm and closed phone? Beyer 770's?

I'd definitely give them a try. I wouldn't classify them as specifically "warm" but they're certainly warmer than the Sennheiser HD280... with a better soundstage and easier to drive.

Many arguments have been had on Head-Fi regarding the 770-80 vs the A900 and their midranges. Most of the people I truly trust (including my own ears) find the 770-80 to have a FAR better midrange, but you'll certainly find ATH fanboys that will argue.

They're certainly built quite a bit better than the A900, as you can see in my pictures above. Just make sure you get the 80 ohm version. For a long time, a guy named guitarcenterinsider or something on ebay was selling them for around $150.
 

Tom Penny

Member
battleMAUS said:
^sure but im still skeptic about it. if i really want 5.1 that bad i'd rather purchase a good speaker setup.


There is a large difference from a gaming perspective what you hear listening to 5.1 speakers vs gaming with headphones on. At least for me. It also depends if the game your playing and if there is a huge advantage to hearing sound such as CS.
 

Mercutio

Member
battleMAUS said:
no don't purchase a900s there overpriced. just pick up the a700s. they're cheaper and most hi-fi comparisons claim that their really is no noticeable difference.

This is good advice. The difference between the two is negligible for the $60 or more price difference.
 

theBishop

Banned
L0st Id3ntity said:
No I had headphones in mind already, I'm going to get everything once not seperately if I decide on headphones.

I'm looking into the Sennheiser HD-280, the guy in the blog Sho posted got it and praised it, and a couple of guys talked good about it in this thread, too.

That's exactly the kind of kit where I'd rather see you put in another $100.
 

Mindlog

Member
Mercutio said:
Those are binural recordings I think. They require very expensive and specific microphones, often placed in a dummy head.

I thought they would be too before I actually clicked on the link hehe. It's supposed to be an example of their tech. I'm a bit worried because it sounded kind of distorted to me, but I want to see if I can find one at a local shop.


Lots of good info in this thread. One of the best threads I've seen on GAF.


*One nitpick about comparing headphones to full 5.1 imo. If you want comparable sound quality you will be spending A LOT more money trying to get the same sound out of a full size 5.1 setup. Quantity is cheap and easy though.

**There were two links and I wasn't paying attention. The haircut is binaural and the other was Dolby 5.1 examples :[ My mistake.
 

AVclub

Junior Member
Sho Nuff said:
Try this. This has turned skeptics into rabid believers. At TGS, Kojima Productions was demoing MGS4 with one of these boxes attached to each PS3.
This is very interesting to me, but is a year old. Have there been any advancements/improvements in this tech since then? Any other contenders out there for surround headphones?

I've been looking for a quality alternative to my surround sound system which would give me the same effect in headphones. Loving this thread so far!
 
Davidion said:
Actually that may not be entirely correct. I can't listen to this on my crappy work speakers but if I'm not mistaken, that link leads to a bunch of Holophonic recordings. These MP3s sound the way they do because they're recorded in a certain fashion and has nothing to do with the output source. Somehow I doubt the x-fi card or any other consumer hardware can reproduce this effect from any old sound recordings.
first of all you have to use headphones for these mp3s!

To X-Fi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-fi#X-Fi_features said:
* CMSS-3D
This feature is intended for both headphones and speakers. CMSS-3D consists of 3 settings depending upon what equipment is used. With 2 speakers, CMSS-3DVirtual can be enabled for virtual 3D audio. If surround sound speakers are used, CMSS-3DSurround can upmix stereo sources up to 7:1 channels. There is also CMSS-3DHeadphone for virtual 3D audio when using headphones. Whether the results are desirable can depend upon speaker equipment and personal preference.

sure you cannot make normal stereo sounds to be virtual 3d. But if you have a game with surround sound, you can use only stereo headphones to enjoy surround.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
L0st Id3ntity said:
Then why do people bother with surround systems in the first place if it's the same as regular headphones? :/

Let me know when you figure out how to put one pair of headphones onto 4 people at the same time.

In terms of gaming, I get better positional audio out of headphones than I do out of any of number of regular speakers.

If you only have console get a decent pair of cans and an outboard decoder.
If you have a PC handy with an x-fi or similar you can go console->x-fi->headphones.

I am partial to Sennheiser. I've got an ancient pair of HD525s that are on their 4th cable and really, really need new cups. Probably just retire them as an excuse to upgrade instead. :)
 

Mercutio

Member
Rur0ni said:
200 clams for the DT770-80, I may bite.

And at a Guitar Center, you can usually argue them down lower. I've gotten a few pairs of them for friends, and depending on the day / employee, you can get them as low as $150. They might make you buy a service warranty for $10 or something. Like you'd need it on these phones...
 

Sho Nuff

Banned
theBishop said:
Not trying to be a dick, i'm just saying, there's a big difference between 4 bookshelf speakers surrounding you and having 4 tinny speakers half an inch from your ear. You probably can't perceive depth that tight.

I think you have your priorities in the wrong order. You should be shopping good headphones before you start shopping Dolby doodads. Good headphones without the dolby kit is far-and-away better than shitty headphones with the dolby. Hell, I'd rather see you skip the dolby unit completely and put the $100 toward even better cans.

The SU-DH1 will not perform particularly well without decent headphones with a wide soundstage. I tried them with a crappy old pair of Sonys and it wasn't particularly effective. However, when I combo the SU-DH1 with the Sennheiser 555's it's fucking great, in games like R6 Vegas and COD4 I can hear exactly where people are coming from in 360 degrees.

Note that the demos on the Dolby website are compressed and tinny-sounding and don't really reflect what you'd get from a nice DTS mix or a game with really good 5.1.

edit: It supports ProLogic II as well, but goddamn PLII sucks ass
 

kruskev

Member
Sho Nuff said:
The SU-DH1 will not perform particularly well without decent headphones with a wide soundstage. I tried them with a crappy old pair of Sonys and it wasn't particularly effective. However, when I combo the SU-DH1 with the Sennheiser 555's it's fucking great, in games like R6 Vegas and COD4 I can hear exactly where people are coming from in 360 degrees.

Note that the demos on the Dolby website are compressed and tinny-sounding and don't really reflect what you'd get from a nice DTS mix or a game with really good 5.1.

edit: It supports ProLogic II as well, but goddamn PLII sucks ass


I have a grado sr-225 that I got from my cousin, I heard that it was a decent phone but I don't know whether it has a wide soundstage. Should I get a sennheiser to use with the SU-DH1?
 
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