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5th Cell CEO (GAF's own Jackson): Wii U is "definitely more powerful than PS3 & 360"

fernoca

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Sep 17, 2006
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Halo Wars looks great (and better than that picture posted); but Pikmin 3 looks better (an bigger with more stuff going on) overall and should be expected too since Halo Wars is around 4 years old. :p
 

Pixel_boy

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Jun 22, 2012
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Pikmin 3 was a wii game only so much you can do with out tossing the lot away and doing it from ground up, Its more or less a Wii HD classic or equivalent too.
 
Aug 29, 2010
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it needs to be 6-8x 360 for it to even matter.

its not. Its on par, meaning 0,5x-3x. So its never going to see any meaningful ports of next gen games.

its the wii all over again, basically.

but its enough for nintendo games with decent image quality.
 

Luigiv

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Pikmin 3 was a wii game only so much you can do with out tossing the lot away and doing it from ground up, Its more or less a Wii HD classic or equivalent too.
The part in bold is completely true but the part in italics is a bit hyperbolic.

Pikmin 3 has been enhanced over it's original Wii version in every way technically possible, which not something you can really say about HD classics that only up the resolution (and occasionally framerate). In Pikmin 3, the poly counts are much higher, the textures are higher res, there are normal maps and all the other modern shader effects you'd expect. From a purely raw performance standpoint Pikmin 3 does just fine.

The problem is, because it's using a Wii version base the way Pikmin 3 uses all that technology is not very efficient. Instead of using that impressive poly count to fill the level with lots foliage and other big details it just uses them to make the existing objects smoother. Instead of using the higher textures res to add more small details to scene it just uses them to make existing textures look sharper. Instead of using the shaders to give the series a new look, it just uses them in a reserved fashion that doesn't tamper with the original art direction.

Whilst this approach does give Pikmin 3 a pleasant and very clean look, it's not exactly the best way to use all that technology, especially not in a game all about foraging for treasure in the dirt. Hopefully Pikmin 4 does something more interesting with the hardware.
 

NBtoaster

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Aug 3, 2010
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Halo Wars is impressive for being one of the few 360 titles with terrain tesselation. Something Pikmin 3 could use really.

The lighting and detail in Halo Wars isn't that good, but it also has fog of war and more transparency to deal with.

But overall Pikmin 3 looks better.
 

chertipros

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Apr 15, 2012
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Since Pikmin 3 is a game that switched platforms at the end of development and miyamoto said that the game had an extremely small team working on it, im not really surprised that it isn't a graphical showcase for the wii u. However with the new comic con footage of zombi u looking a little better than the e3 build which was only a month ago, i wonder how much better pikmin 3 can look before it comes out.
 

pants

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Feb 21, 2012
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strange statement. why does the CEO of a third party company care about internet speculation re a first party console?
 

Luigiv

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Really doesnt make it any less strange.
I don't understand how it's strange in the first place. Just because Jackson has his own gaming studio doesn't mean he can't still be interested in gaming message boards and the types of debates that go on in them.

Try this. Imagine if you managed to start your own game studio and you got your hands on a Wii U dev kit. Would you all of a sudden stop visiting message boards and ignore the community completely? Probably not. And given that you're in this thread you must have at least a passing interest in the power debate, correct? So what happens when you visit a message board and you see this debate rage on? You yourself have the answers but you're under an NDA so you can't reply. Wouldn't that frustrate you to see all those people talking rubbish, right in front of you and not being able to correct them at all?

Well Jackson is in that exact position and now he's fond an opportunity to speak out.
 

pants

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Feb 21, 2012
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Why is it strange?
It's not odd strange in a my neighbor Totoro way, it's strange in a "why does he care" kinda way. It seems to me he's too attached to the platform if he is getting "frustrated". I'd expect this of Reggie, Miyamoto or Iwata (people who doesnt seem to care lol) but not third parties.

Try this. Imagine if you managed to start your own game studio and you got your hands on a Wii U dev kit. Would you all of a sudden stop visiting message boards and ignore the community completely? Probably not. And given that you're in this thread you must have at least a passing interest in the power debate, correct? So what happens when you visit a message board and you see this debate rage on? You yourself have the answers but you're under an NDA so you can't reply. Wouldn't that frustrate you to see all those people talking rubbish, right in front of you and not being able to correct them at all?

Well Jackson is in that exact position and now he's fond an opportunity to speak out.
Why would I even want to reply? Why would it frustrate me? I'm not about to get emotionally invested in console wars lol
 

Shiggy

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Jun 10, 2004
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I don't understand how it's strange in the first place. Just because Jackson has his own gaming studio doesn't mean he can't still be interested in gaming message boards and the types of debates that go on in them.

Try this. Imagine if you managed to start your own game studio and you got your hands on a Wii U dev kit. Would you all of a sudden stop visiting message boards and ignore the community completely? Probably not. And given that you're in this thread you must have at least a passing interest in the power debate, correct? So what happens when you visit a message board and you see this debate rage on? You yourself have the answers but you're under an NDA so you can't reply. Wouldn't that frustrate you to see all those people talking rubbish, right in front of you and not being able to correct them at all?

Well Jackson is in that exact position and now he's fond an opportunity to speak out.
Shouldn't he be more concerned about polishing his titles a bit more? After all, 5th Cell games have great concepts, their execution could just benefit from some fine-tuning.


And comparing the graphics of Halo Wars to those of Pikmin 3? Really?
 

Meesh

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Ocarina is better on more powerful hardware (3DS). It would be even better on the PS3.

I can't believe people are arguing in favor of less power. It's sad that people have to resort to that to defend Nintendo.
Actually, in defense of gaming I didn't feel Ocarina was better on 3ds, it just looks prettier. It's really the same experience with a face lift....and i don't consider better graphics to equall a better game, rather they compliment the game. I'm sure there are countless games in hd that have been stinkers...a pretty log is still a log.
I'm sure wiiu is more powerfull than ps360, no question...for me it's all about the games and which ones well see when xbox8 and ps4 launch. How will ports be affected by wiius outdated hardware, will they even bother at that point. Having to dip into ps360 back catalogue is one thing but being able to support future games is another all together. If the disparity between wiiu and the next boxes is less great than we may expect, due to economic constraints, then it's possible we may be on our way back to the golden years of the 16 bit era( long stretch I know) which is better for gamers on the whole. All in all I expect this to mean there will be more cross platform titles, making the blockbuster won't be as risky, ease of development to use smaller teams and allocate those resources elsewhere. Concentrating on games rather than cinematic experiences is what I'm hoping for here.
Do graphics matter? Sure, to an extent. Do we question wiius abillity to output hd graphics? No. I believe it to be a matter of the future benchmark set by xbo8 and ps4, I think that'll be the ultimate deal beaker for many looking for the best looking game.
 

deviljho

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Jun 24, 2012
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Halo Wars? Pikmin? Wat?

how man times is pikmin halo wars? HOW MANY X?!
Miyamoto is 3 Master Chiefs duct taped together.

Metroid Prime series is more fun to play than Halo series, but Halo series looks much better. I don't play the more fun game, I play the game that looks better because I didn't buy a HDTV for nothing.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
Shouldn't he be more concerned about polishing his titles a bit more? After all, 5th Cell games have great concepts, their execution could just benefit from some fine-tuning.
needlessly cheap, naively misdirected and completely childish response

borderline ignore-list worthy
 

NM0dz

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Sep 19, 2010
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It's not odd strange in a my neighbor Totoro way, it's strange in a "why does he care" kinda way. It seems to me he's too attached to the platform if he is getting "frustrated". I'd expect this of Reggie, Miyamoto or Iwata (people who doesnt seem to care lol) but not third parties.


Why would I even want to reply? Why would it frustrate me? I'm not about to get emotionally invested in console wars lol
Errr, if you hear someone say something which is objectively wrong, isn't your initial reaction to correct them?

What if you were restricted from providing information you know people are interested in, and are seeking and speculating about? you really have no desire to provide any sort of disclosure? none at all?
 

Shiggy

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needlessly cheap, naively misdirected and completely childish response

borderline ignore-list worthy
Cry no more. Luigiv made it sound as if it was Jackson's biggest desire to dismiss internet rumours. I hope/doubt it isn't.
 

pants

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Feb 21, 2012
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Errr, if you hear someone say something which is objectively wrong, isn't your initial reaction to correct them?
Depends on the topic, even if I knew better but the topic is not of interest I'd just ignore it.

What if you were restricted from providing information you know people are interested in, and are seeking and speculating about? you really have no desire to provide any sort of disclosure? none at all?
Kinda like NDAs. I work under NDA so I'm used to it, the desire to share is there, I don't get frustrated over peoples speculation though.
 

specialguy

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Feb 17, 2011
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needlessly cheap, naively misdirected and completely childish response

borderline ignore-list worthy
Pretty much GAF normalcy.

Dev makes controversial comment, new thread.

First responses are always "LOL your games r shit anyway" or "shouldn't you be worried about fixing your shitty [insert last game flaw here]"
 

Luigiv

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Why would I even want to reply? Why would it frustrate me? I'm not about to get emotionally invested in console wars lol
Because it's human nature to want to correct people when they're wrong and you know the right answer. Clearly you're less affected by this condition than others but it's hardly strange that others might mention they feel this way.

Also frustration isn't a binary state. There are varying levels of frustration and I think you're over imagining what Jackson means when he says he he's "frustrated". I highly doubt he pulling out his hair over this I'm sure it's just a pet peeve. There's nothing strange with that.
 

Shiggy

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Pretty much GAF normalcy.

Dev makes controversial comment, new thread.

First responses are always "LOL your games r shit anyway" or "shouldn't you be worried about fixing your shitty [insert last game flaw here]"
Just that the controversial comment is missing here. People still in denial of the Wii U being more powerful than PS3/360 should get back to reality.
 

Corto

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Dec 5, 2008
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It's not odd strange in a my neighbor Totoro way, it's strange in a "why does he care" kinda way. It seems to me he's too attached to the platform if he is getting "frustrated". I'd expect this of Reggie, Miyamoto or Iwata (people who doesnt seem to care lol) but not third parties.


Why would I even want to reply? Why would it frustrate me? I'm not about to get emotionally invested in console wars lol
If you were developing for an specific platform that you felt was misrepresented or even victim of FUD I assure you that you would jump on that and tried to debunk any doubt of that device capabilities as soon as possible. That's not strange, that's business smart.
 

NM0dz

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Sep 19, 2010
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Depends on the topic, even if I knew better but the topic is not of interest I'd just ignore it.

Kinda like NDAs. I work under NDA so I'm used to it, the desire to share is there, I don't get frustrated over peoples speculation though.
Fair enough, you seem more laid back i guess : P

when i picture this guy as 'frustrated' i see him sort of sighing and muttering 'not this shit again, and i could easily stop this too, if only...' . So not particularly emotionally invested, just making him feel ': / ' if that makes sense...
 

Dash Kappei

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Apr 8, 2005
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Everyone is comparing it to the PS3/360 because the PS4/720 isn't even announced yet, the only reason the 360 didn't really get compared to the PS2/GC/Xbox is because the PS3 and Wii got announced at the same time, that didn't happen with the Wii U.
Even that isn't true, the boards were flooded with Wall Guy and Xbox 1.5 at the time
 

Jackson

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Mar 16, 2007
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Actually I was just getting annoyed that devs were giving contradicting statements to the press about the WiiU's overall performance in regards to 360/PS3. It's clearly better, whoever says it isn't is either lying or grossly misinformed. It was annoying me to see so much back and forth about it from devs and the press. The forum banter is just a byproduct of the information the forum goers are given.

The response I gave was an off-the-cuff answer to a Game Informer interview really. Nothing more.

Shouldn't he be more concerned about polishing his titles a bit more? After all, 5th Cell games have great concepts, their execution could just benefit from some fine-tuning.
Obvious troll is obvious. :)
 

schuelma

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Actually I was getting frustrated that devs were giving contradicting statements about the WiiU's overall metric of is it better than 360/PS3 or not.

It's clearly better, whoever says it isn't is either lying or grossly misinformed. It was annoying me to see so much back and forth about devs and the press.

The forum banter is just a product of the information they are given.
Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated.
 

KillerTravis

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Mar 25, 2012
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Actually I was getting frustrated that devs were giving contradicting statements about the WiiU's overall metric of is it better than 360/PS3 or not.

It's clearly better, whoever says it isn't is either lying or grossly misinformed. It was annoying me to see so much back and forth about devs and the press.

The forum banter is just a product of the information they are given.
Well I think that's that, you can't be more clear than this.
 

metalslimer

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Jun 9, 2012
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Actually I was getting frustrated that devs were giving contradicting statements about the WiiU's overall metric of is it better than 360/PS3 or not.

It's clearly better, whoever says it isn't is either lying or grossly misinformed. It was annoying me to see so much back and forth about devs and the press.

The forum banter is just a product of the information they are given.
Thanks for at least clearing it up and I hope we can at least end the people claiming it is weaker or on par with the current gen consoles. Whether or not the big gap between Wii U and 720 will produce drastic results in another issue, but we'll see.
 

GDGF

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Jun 6, 2004
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Actually I was getting frustrated that devs were giving contradicting statements about the WiiU's overall metric of is it better than 360/PS3 or not.

It's clearly better, whoever says it isn't is either lying or grossly misinformed. It was annoying me to see so much back and forth about devs and the press.

The forum banter is just a product of the information they are given.
Give 'em hell, Jackson.
 

jaypah

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Nov 1, 2006
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Metroid Prime series is more fun to play than Halo series, but Halo series looks much better. I don't play the more fun game, I play the game that looks better because I didn't buy a HDTV for nothing.
You may want to leave this thread alone, you're starting to unravel. I've seen this early onset before, you're 2 pages away from a classic meltdown.

Give 'em hell, Jackson.
Oh my God, really?! I don't think Mr. Jackson is your frontline one man Nintendo defense force. I think he just wants to make games without all the drama and bullshit.

Edit: no offense meant. You just sound like a wounded trooper when the tanks show up.
 

GDGF

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Oh my God, really?! I don't think Mr. Jackson is your frontline one man Nintendo defense force. I think he just wants to make games without all the drama and bullshit.

Edit: no offense meant. You just sound like a wounded trooper when the tanks show up.
I do believe you're taking this whole thing a bit more seriously than I am.
 

PhoenixDark

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Sep 25, 2005
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I really don't understand this argument. The WiiU is more powerful than current gen systems. That's cool, but I'm more interested in whether it's as powerful as the next gen systems on the way - you know, PS4 and the next Xbox. That's the benchmark people should be focusing on.
 

Stealth20k

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Jun 9, 2012
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it doesnt really matter.....costs are so ridiculous as it is........adding to that burden isnt what I want. We need a gen just to catch up, recover, whatever
 

I Stalk Alone

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May 20, 2010
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it needs to be 6-8x 360 for it to even matter.

its not. Its on par, meaning 0,5x-3x. So its never going to see any meaningful ports of next gen games.

its the wii all over again, basically.

but its enough for nintendo games with decent image quality.
wii was 20x less powerful than the xbox 360

wii u will be 2-3x less powerful than xbox 720. By your definition 2-3x is "on par"

yet you say wii u
its never going to see any meaningful ports of next gen games
how does that make sense if it is "on par" by your definition?
 

jaypah

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I think you're taking this whole thing a bit too seriously.
Nah, just popped my head in to see why the thread got so long. Figures it would be behind fanboy bullshit. I just didn't want the guy/gal to get banned. Also your "give 'em hell!" was funny because it's what you'd hear in a war movie and you spouted it during a literal "system war" thread. Like I said, no offense intended, sorry if you took it some kind of way. I don't understand system wars any more but i can remember when I did so I can't really point fingers. Enjoy your discussion.
 

GDGF

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Jun 6, 2004
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Nah, just popped my head in to see why the thread got so long. Figures it would be behind fanboy bullshit. I just didn't want the guy/gal to get banned. Also your "give 'em hell!" was funny because it's what you'd hear in a war movie and you spouted it during a literal "system war" thread. Like I said, no offense intended, sorry if you took it some kind of way. I don't understand system wars any more but i can remember when I did so I can't really point fingers. Enjoy your discussion.
I was thinking about Harry Truman, actually. A lot of my posts are obscure references or quotes attached to the theme of the time :)

And I don't think you have to worry about Jackson being banned.
 

jaypah

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I was thinking about Harry Truman, actually. A lot of my posts are obscure references or quotes attached to the theme of the time :)

And I don't think you have to worry about Jackson being banned.
Haha, not Jackson, the guy/gal going off about Halo and Metroid. It sounded like the start of a meltdown and I was trying to let them know because they are a junior and I know sometimes juniors can't come back from a ban.