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A Closer Look at How Xbox Series X|S Integrates Full AMD RDNA 2 Architecture

I’m still going with my theory that Sony were building a chip for a 2019 launch but for whatever reason delayed. So with a bit more time they tack on a few extras and over clock it up the wazoo to try and make it look respectable when compared to the Xbox. This in turn lead to a humongous console.
 
Sounds like technicalities at best. Obviously PS5 doesn't use DirectX Ray Tracing, so it doesn't have the full RDNA 2 integration as AMD describes it.



Why is RGT acting like Series are not custom RDNA2 as well? From what today's news shows, it seems like what's coming in the PC RDNA2 cards predicates a lot of itself off the R&D MS & AMD invested into the Series designs which were developed in lockstep with featuresets relating to DX12 and DX12U. There's a rather interesting timeline to be had in all of this I could strum up if felt like it.

I do think PS5 will have their own equivalents for most of what might fall under MS nomenclature and API range, but there's a a strong chance there are some things that will have no equivalents on Sony's side, either. We've already kind of gotten a hint to at least one of them a few months back when the Italian Sony PS5 engineer put out some info on Twitter. Their follow-up tweet seemed more like something that legally did enough to clarify things but with ambiguous language to leave the degree of what was being validated or invalidated from the earlier statements, up to reader interpretation.

In any case, the new systems are almost here and whatever differences there really are between the systems, it'll be a while before they manifest IMHO. Even so, in the grand scheme of things I don't think it's going to lead to a magnitudes better or worst gaming experience on either platform and its ecosystem, or even games that are too fundamentally different from each other to the point they feel a generation apart.

No, time, budgets and resources will be the far bigger factors at play on software quality in the 1P camp on both MS and Sony's systems, as well as for 3P games.

EDIT: Also some people need to get off the 'custom' hype train. Just because something's custom does not automatically make it better or even good. We've seen enough examples of this throughout console history. It just means it's different from the default...if you can determine/ascertain what the default is, mind you.

I never understood the idea of wearing "custom" like a badge of honor. Custom or not, your features either work well or they don't, end of story. My problem with Sony in this regard, is that they've not even explicitly specified what their custom implementations are (for GPU) outside of cache scrubbers, and that was way back in March.

The consoles are literally two weeks away, and it seems like it's MS talking about more specs following AMD's Big Navi reveal, not Sony. Is there a chance Sony does? A chance they actually specify what range of elements are there they've got customized to feature-match what MS are seemingly talking about? Maybe. But we're doing a lot of speculating and guessing/hopeful wishing there, and I'd like actual official confirmation direct from the source on some of the "secret sauce" features I've seen a lot of people talking about WRT PS5 the past several weeks (again aside from the cache scrubbers and some Geometry Engine changes, which are things we've known since March).
 
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Yes infinity cache is rDNA2 thats too expensive cost for both consoles.

Ps5 could not afford more CU than 40 with fast gating

XSX could not afford frequency gating per CU with 56 CU

So both are lacking.

Compromises are consoles. Both cut a different cloth. PR is PR.

What about a PS Vita-like memory set-up for this "large cache". Mark Cerny already said the PS5 I/O (which is in the APU) has a generous amount of SRAM.

Is it possible for this I/O processors (SRAM included) to be at the other side of the motherboard directly wired to the APU? The other side of the APU on the motherboard has its own cooling based on the teardown video.

Paul from RedGamingTech

"There is one small little thing, I'm kinda hesitant to bring it up because I know people are going to get mad at me, but I'm going to mention it anyway, I have a sneaking suspicion that a variant of the Infinity Cache is in the PS5, now the reason I say that is because when I was asking my sources, a couple of them accurate, the same sources told me that the PS5 was running incredibly quiet, very cool and they gave me all the breakdown of the PS5 testing procedures from Sony thats turned out to be accurate, they told me that the cooling solution was very different, very unique and they gave me other insights and lo and behold we started to see patents for that.....but one hint they gave me was that cache coherency on the PS5 is incredibly important and this is one of the reasons we see cache scrubbers...when I asked my source why does it look there is some sort of stacked memory on the PS5, are we looking at 3D stacked memory? they told me and I quote "think PS Vita". So I don't know if that is the case that there some type of chunk of cache or if it some type of Infinity Cache, I am still pretty dam confident in my information that PS5 has custom RDNA 2 features, or more specifically it's built on RDNA 2 with custom features which are NOT seen on RDNA 2 silicon...we'll just have to wait and see."

Timestamped link

 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
You wonder why people such as Dealer, Dee and Colteastwood have a large following and then you start to read comments from XboxGAF in this thread.

If you guys have been wrong so many times then I think it's time to step back and wait for more info before anyone starts jumping the gun.
 

MarkMe2525

Gold Member
So... an off the shelf gpu.
The original xbox was setup in a similar fashion. It's geforce based gpu was more or less using what was going to be off the shelf features that powered Nvidias future gpu's. Difference is now they are doing that with AMD. It worked out well for them back then, time will tell if that holds true going forward.
 

supernova8

Banned
no games though eh ;)

come at me bro

5kUFuNx.gif

(yes I am trolling you, and yes you took the bait)
 
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I love how some keep bringing up VRS as if that's a big loss if PS5 doesn't have it, you literally make part of the image look worse. Did you see the DF video on Gears Tactics? they pointed out where the VRS stuff was and when you look for it you can find it, same with those Halo infinite screens where there was a noticeable drop in quality. This sounds like something better suited for VR when your eyes really are trained almost exclusively on what's directly in front of you, otherwise it just seems fairly useless, if you tell me it's there I'm going to see it and it'll bug me lol.
 
The thought that there's still people insisting that the PS5's GPU is "not" RDNA2 to the point of casting doubts about the Geomety Engine, like it can't do Mesh Shaders, despite we discovering that the feature will become an standard this generation with the Unreal Engine 5 demo running on the PS5...
 

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I love how some keep bringing up VRS as if that's a big loss if PS5 doesn't have it, you literally make part of the image look worse. Did you see the DF video on Gears Tactics? they pointed out where the VRS stuff was and when you look for it you can find it, same with those Halo infinite screens where there was a noticeable drop in quality. This sounds like something better suited for VR when your eyes really are trained almost exclusively on what's directly in front of you, otherwise it just seems fairly useless, if you tell me it's there I'm going to see it and it'll bug me lol.
It’s not useless at all. If you are looking at still screen captures then sure, you will notice it, but playing the game you won’t and it could provide big performance gains.
 

tryDEATH

Member
I love how some keep bringing up VRS as if that's a big loss if PS5 doesn't have it, you literally make part of the image look worse. Did you see the DF video on Gears Tactics? they pointed out where the VRS stuff was and when you look for it you can find it, same with those Halo infinite screens where there was a noticeable drop in quality. This sounds like something better suited for VR when your eyes really are trained almost exclusively on what's directly in front of you, otherwise it just seems fairly useless, if you tell me it's there I'm going to see it and it'll bug me lol.

The VRS that Gears Tactics used is a primitive version of what the RDNA2 VRS is and DF clearly states that in the video. VRS is going to be a significant performance booster especially now that it's a pillar feature of RDNA2 compared to before when it was a feature only some studios had who had to make their own versions primarily racing games.
 

Neo_game

Member
Xbox and RDNA2 both will support all features of dx12 ultimate. I do not know why this is a news to anyone ? Since AMD made it official in their conference I guess Microsoft also had do do it 🤷‍♂️
 
So when will Series X get Deep Learning based Super Sampling? MSFT DirectML or whatever the AMD thing will be? The NVIDIA tech is a game changer and I dont see anything concrete about it on either new console.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
So when will Series X get Deep Learning based Super Sampling? MSFT DirectML or whatever the AMD thing will be? The NVIDIA tech is a game changer and I dont see anything concrete about it on either new console.
Well we know the Xbox has full RDNA2 support for it, via hardware if that’s what RDNA2 is, so they’ll get it whenever someone uses it.
 

pyrocro

Member
Whatever. Cant be bothered with tittle tattle and stuff, boring.

If you want to discuss something technical I am happy to discuss

oh oh the good gentleman has decided he will fade quietly into the night.

on another note, the new thing is more features is actually less.

"FULL RDNA2" is less than "not FULL RDNA2".

with the smaller chip sony somehow fit in more hardware features than the full-featured RDNA2 XBOX Series X GPU.

will it never end? :messenger_astonished:
 

pyrocro

Member
The thought that there's still people insisting that the PS5's GPU is "not" RDNA2 to the point of casting doubts about the Geomety Engine, like it can't do Mesh Shaders, despite we discovering that the feature will become an standard this generation with the Unreal Engine 5 demo running on the PS5...
You are confused, the concept of a geometry engine is present in all modern GPUs,
please clarify what you are really trying to reference.
 
So when will Series X get Deep Learning based Super Sampling? MSFT DirectML or whatever the AMD thing will be? The NVIDIA tech is a game changer and I dont see anything concrete about it on either new console.

I think AMD is still working on the implementation. I'd expect we start seeing implementations in a year or so.
 

Clarissa

Banned
My friend who is a Nintendo fanboy who hates Sony implies that the PS5 will hold back game developers because it doesn't have full RDNA 2.

Name in RED is my friend who is a Nintendo fanboy who hates Sony.



YXEiqQb.jpg


RGI1ghX.jpg


Guy in BLUE says that consoles exclusives matter more in the end. But my friend who is a Nintendo fanboy who hates Sony goes on to downplay exclusive games.
 
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Elias

Member
My friend who is a Nintendo fanboy who hates Sony implies that the PS5 will hold back game developers because it doesn't have full RDNA 2.

Name in RED is my friend who is a Nintendo fanboy who hates Sony.



YXEiqQb.jpg


RGI1ghX.jpg


Guy in BLUE says that consoles exclusives matter more in the end. But my friend who is a Nintendo fanboy who hates Sony goes on to downplay exclusive games.
MS will have more platform exclusive games this gen.
 

Clarissa

Banned
MS will have more platform exclusive games this gen.
The moment MS has more platform exclusives released, my friend will change his tune and say that the PS5 sucks because it doesn't have as many exclusive games.

You can bet on that.
 

TLZ

Banned
My friend who is a Nintendo fanboy who hates Sony implies that the PS5 will hold back game developers because it doesn't have full RDNA 2.

Name in RED is my friend who is a Nintendo fanboy who hates Sony.



YXEiqQb.jpg


RGI1ghX.jpg


Guy in BLUE says that consoles exclusives matter more in the end. But my friend who is a Nintendo fanboy who hates Sony goes on to downplay exclusive games.
Sigh. Tell your Nintendo fanboy friend your own Nintendo you love has the weakest hardware out. If anyone's holding back anything it should be them. And tell your Nintendo fanboy friend to downplay Nintendo's exclusives.
 

Neo_game

Member
So when will Series X get Deep Learning based Super Sampling? MSFT DirectML or whatever the AMD thing will be? The NVIDIA tech is a game changer and I dont see anything concrete about it on either new console.

Are you talking about DLSS equivalent ? Penultimate para of this article it is mentioned that AMD is working with multiple partners to have open, cross platform solution similar to DLSS which may come in future ?

https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/28...pecs-release-date-price-big-navi-gpu-graphics
 

Clarissa

Banned
Sigh. Tell your Nintendo fanboy friend your own Nintendo you love has the weakest hardware out. If anyone's holding back anything it should be them. And tell your Nintendo fanboy friend to downplay Nintendo's exclusives.

Just before Switch launched, another guy was asking him how many TFlops was the Switch. My friend got so mad and said that it's the games that matter. Not the specs.
Now that Playstation has the games and lower specs, he says it's all about the specs and exclusives don't matter. :messenger_persevering::messenger_persevering::messenger_persevering:
 

Fahdis

Member
Just before Switch launched, another guy was asking him how many TFlops was the Switch. My friend got so mad and said that it's the games that matter. Not the specs.
Now that Playstation has the games and lower specs, he says it's all about the specs and exclusives don't matter. :messenger_persevering::messenger_persevering::messenger_persevering:

Your Fanboy friend is everything I hate about fanboys. Jump his ass and show him 8K gaming with the 3090 and 6900 on a CX or G9.
 

TLZ

Banned
Just before Switch launched, another guy was asking him how many TFlops was the Switch. My friend got so mad and said that it's the games that matter. Not the specs.
Now that Playstation has the games and lower specs, he says it's all about the specs and exclusives don't matter. :messenger_persevering::messenger_persevering::messenger_persevering:
Just ignore him then.
 
I personally don't understand what the obsession is with one being FULL RDNA2 versus Custom RDNA 2 or RDNA 1.5.

Do y'all really think that will matter? Is it making a difference right now? What good is having a full RDNA 2 GPU if it's currently, at best, getting you 4K at 60 on AC Valhalla versus 4K and 60 on the not full RDNA 2 GPU. Like it sounds cool that it's full RDNA 2, but what does that mean for video games? Cause so far, the best looking games we've seen is coming from the console that has a not a full RDNA 2 based GPU. When will this FULL RDNA 2 going to show it's self and smash that not full RDNA2 based GPU? Are they biding their time to unlock this power?

I'm so confused as to what the point is, are we accusing someone of lying? Are we saying that Mark Cerney or Lisa Su was lying when they said PS5 was RDNA 2 based?

Edit: Then we got the guys like the one above me who is a fanboy calling out other fanboys. So your system has a GPU that is full RDNA 2? Does that make you feel better 🤔
Edit Edit: Apparently Ubisoft update the article to read "4K at 60" for Series X and PS5 🤔
 
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Md Ray

Member
When is Godfall releasing? It's a DirectX 12 Ultimate game using features like VRS. So this means Sony's DX12U equivalent API of their own is up and ready.

PC vs PS5 comparison of this game will be very interesting to see. Keep an eye out for it.
 
Xbox literally uses an API now that is very similar to development on PC, so this makes sense. Sony simply took the features of RDNA2 that they liked best and tossed the stuff they didn't think would be beneficial or that they thought they could do better. Xbox Series X doesn't have the geometry engine for example, or the custom 3D audio.

Moral of the story, it doesn't mean much. Talented devs will take advantage of each consoles capabilities and both will offer great experiences.
 
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lol no, the point is that only MS waited for RDNA2 features to be finalized, while Sony moved on earlier.



Sony could have done what Xbox did and just made it basically stock RDNA2 with less customization. Its not like Sony didn't have the same roadmap as Microsoft. Sony always customizes their home consoles. The PS4 Pro had features that were not available in AMD Graphics cards when it came out and even vanilla PS4 had customizations in the GPU for better general compute than what was available on the desktop market. This is not new territory for Sony.
 
Sony could have done what Xbox did and just made it basically stock RDNA2 with less customization. Its not like Sony didn't have the same roadmap as Microsoft. Sony always customizes their home consoles. The PS4 Pro had features that were not available in AMD Graphics cards when it came out and even vanilla PS4 had customizations in the GPU for better general compute than what was available on the desktop market. This is not new territory for Sony.

That's speculation at this point, especially as the PS5 is so close otherwise in architecture to a PC.

All we know for certain is that PS5 isn't full RDNA2 and that it appears (courtesy of DF) VRS is one of the features missing.

Other than that, I think we should wait and see what Sony has to offer. IMO in most cases there will be parity between the systems anyway. If Series S/X has additional features/benefits then I'd expect to see them more born out in first party games designed specifically for them.
 
That's speculation at this point, especially as the PS5 is so close otherwise in architecture to a PC.

All we know for certain is that PS5 isn't full RDNA2 and that it appears (courtesy of DF) VRS is one of the features missing.

Other than that, I think we should wait and see what Sony has to offer. IMO in most cases there will be parity between the systems anyway. If Series S/X has additional features/benefits then I'd expect to see them more born out in first party games designed specifically for them.
Is VRS a valuable feature though?
Also, didn’t we already see what Sony has to offer with Demon’s Souls and Spider-Man:MM? We also saw what MS has to offer with Halo:Infinite.
 
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