A legal abortion is a safe abortion

[Instigator]

Enjoy this one, GAF!

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/sep/07090405.html

As pro-lifers protested on Saturday at the Omaha home of Planned Parenthood abortionist Meryl Severson, news broke that Severson is being sued by a 40-year old woman whose abortion he botched.

The woman, who filed the suit Friday under the pseudonym "Jane Roe," alleges that Severson so severely botched her abortion that she lost 80% of her total blood volume and required an emergency hysterectomy to save her life.

According to the complaint, the woman reported to the Lincoln Planned Parenthood office on August 17, 2007, for an abortion in the 8th week of pregnancy. During the suction abortion, she felt a sharp, excruciating pain and asked abortionist Severson to stop. Three employees then held the woman down while he completed the suction process in spite of her pleas.

In the recovery area, a friend who accompanied her to the abortion clinic attempted to help her to the bathroom, but the woman, who was in intense pain and bleeding, passed out and suffered the first of three seizures.

The woman was transported by ambulance to the local hospital where doctors treated her for "catastrophic perforation" of the uterus, which would have resulted in her death if treatment had been delayed any longer.

"This is yet another horror story from a Planned Parenthood abortion mill," said Operation Rescue President Troy Newman. "How many women has this happened to that have not filed lawsuits? When we see stories like this, we know it is just the tip of the iceberg."

Severson lives in Omaha, but splits his time between three abortion mills in Lincoln, Nebraska; Council Bluffs and Sioux City, Iowa.

Larry Donlan of Rescue the Heartland led the protest at Severson's home that included one of Operation Rescue's Truth Trucks, which circled through the neighborhood showing the consequences of abortion.

"People need to be aware that when they walk into a Planned Parenthood abortion clinic, they may not walk out," said Newman.

 

[stressboy]

There were complications during a surgery? OMG!

 

[perryfarrell]

Things break...

 

[John Dunbar]

Good thing is the woman who got this special abortion was 40. She probably wouldn't be having any more (or even her first) kids anyway. Especially since she was "with a friend", so she's probably not even married.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

During the suction abortion

wow, I thought there would be a medical jargon name for that to make it sound less vacuum cleaner related.

 

[Yixian]

Stuff goes wrong. The abortion procedure itself isn't particularly unsafe, there are risks to every surgery.

 

[stressboy]

wow, I thought there would be a medical jargon name for that to make it sound less vacuum cleaner related.

Well it is being reported on a site called lifesite.

 

[Matt]

It's far more likely for complications to arise during the birth process then during an abortion.

What's your point?

 

[Tyrannical]

wow, I thought there would be a medical jargon name for that to make it sound less vacuum cleaner related.

You're better of just not knowing......

 

[APF]

Stuff goes wrong.

Like Planned Parenthood employees pinning you down and performing medical procedures on you against your consent?

 

[border]

Well in fairness, there's plenty of medical procedures that you can't just stop in the middle of....even if the patient demands it. I'd be curious to know though, what exactly your rights are if you've consented to surgery and change your mind halfway through.

Also, why would you need the suction procedure at only 8 weeks?

 

[Lobster]

Well if you think about it, its her fault for not using protection in the first place.

 

[Learn2read]

Like Planned Parenthood employees pinning you down so that they can attempt to complete the medical procedure you entered their facility and asked for

fixed for intellectual honesty

 

[Matt]

Like Planned Parenthood employees pinning you down and performing medical procedures on you against your consent?

We have no idea what the real situation was, it could have been simply impossible to stop the procedure at that point.

 

[LakeEarth]

The story sounds suspect.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

The story sounds suspect.

indeed.

 

[MrPing1000]

What would you prefer. Legal abortion goes wrong, complications, women sues, if mistakes made measure taken to prevent them happening again, doctor punished if necessary.

Back alley abortion goes wrong, complications, woman probably dies but if survives is unlikely to have any chance of recovery be it seeing the 'doctor' jailed or monetary compensation.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Like Planned Parenthood employees pinning you down and performing medical procedures on you against your consent?

Yeah, that would be pretty disastrous if these people just plucked random pregnant women of the street and performed abortions on them.

Oh wait. That's not quite what happened.

 

[CrushDance]

Wait did the baby die? Or did the baby die and the mother feared for her life, because she was on the verge of death and couldn't do anything about it? So confusing. What a mess, there was a doctor right there who should have listened. Oh well she wanted the baby out, can't really stop halfway.

I wonder what it must have been like, that fear, the primal fear want to live and survive. What a tragedy.

 

[APF]

fixed for intellectual honesty

Where were you in the "what is rape" threads?

We have no idea what the real situation was, it could have been simply impossible to stop the procedure at that point.

True, and as others have said this story seems suspect in the first place. At the same time, I'm disgusted by the folks who immediately go into spin mode when, if accurate, this is clearly a tragedy. It's almost as though folks can't see beyond their hardened political issues, to the people they affect. F/E, 40 years-old or not, unmarried or not, if this was your girlfriend you'd be fucking livid, and would have every right. You certainly wouldn't be joking that "stuff breaks" or that this is all good in the name of some greater intellectual pursuit. The political aspect wouldn't even cross your mind.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Some people have died from tooth extraction complications.

 

[Learn2read]

Where were you in the "what is rape" threads?

Nurses holding the patient down to keep the patient from thrashing about while sharp medical instruments inside her = A man holding a woman down during rape.

Nice.

 

[Timedog]

Some people have died from tooth extraction complications.

stop it, man. i have to get that done soon!

 

[APF]

Nurses

Nurses?

 

[Learn2read]

Nurses?

The people that assist a Doctor on a medical procedure?

Of course be simple and accept www.lifesite.net's wording that they're merely "employees". I'm sure the Doctor (who they don't even refer to as a Doctor in the article) just called in the janitor and the guy that was in fixing the roof.

 

[Odrion]

Like Planned Parenthood employees pinning you down and performing medical procedures on you against your consent?

It was in the middle of the procedure. Have you ever had any surgery at all while conscious and asked the doctor to "please stop, it hurts!" If they sense anything that's going to forebode a panic attack they will restrain you so you don't try to wiggle your body around and fuck things up.

Christ almighty, it was a botched medical operation and they happen. This really isn't relevant to pro-life or pro-choice at all. Don't be a douchebag and make such a ignorant title.

 

[Learn2read]

The comparison is in terms of withdrawing consent after invitation

Of course it was, and it was silly.

If she had signed all the forms and it was at the point where they were prepping the surgery, preparing the instruments, getting here into postion, etc. and she makes an 11th hour decision to back out, your analogy would apply.

 

[BigGreenMat]

I feel bad for the woman, but complications happen. All procedures have risks. The story doesn't seem so outlandish. I can't see anything wrong from what was presented here.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Where were you in the "what is rape" threads?



True, and as others have said this story seems suspect in the first place. At the same time, I'm disgusted by the folks who immediately go into spin mode when, if accurate, this is clearly a tragedy. It's almost as though folks can't see beyond their hardened political issues, to the people they affect. F/E, 40 years-old or not, unmarried or not, if this was your girlfriend you'd be fucking livid, and would have every right. You certainly wouldn't be joking that "stuff breaks" or that this is all good in the name of some greater intellectual pursuit. The political aspect wouldn't even cross your mind.

Yeah, because If I think of her as my girlfriend, I can't distance myself emotionally or intellectually enough to understand why it happened the way it did.

Jesus. You are the king of spin here.

 

[APF]

Except (going by the article) she knew something was going wrong and was restrained by "employees" and the botched procedure continued, the complications of which ignored by the person performing the procedure, who then set her on her way, only to have her pass out because of the clinician's incompetence. If this was NOT an abortion, would you guys be spinning so hard, when you know little about the situation? I don't think so. You're clouded by your politics and unable to see anything but "OMG THIS MIGHT BE BAD FOR MY TEAM OMG"

 

[adamsappel]

Ah, Instigator. How awesome is it when someone chooses the perfect forum handle, and then lives up to it so well?

While a good deal of skepticism is warranted considering the source and wording of the story, it sucks that this woman was injured. Was the doctor incompetent? The stigma of being an abortion doctor, especially in that area (for example, South Dakota has one abortion clinic for the entire state, and it's only open one day a week), probably limits the pool of talent. You'd hope to have a doctor who saw it as a higher calling of providing a needed medical service, rather than one exploiting an underserved customer base.

And are we all breathlessly awaiting Jay's response? Will he go with the "Good, couldn't have happened to a nicer baby-killer," or "How terrible that two lives were destroyed, one literally, on that dark day"?

 

[davepoobond]

well i know which abortion clinic is gonna get bombed next...

 

[Instigator]

Ah, Instigator. How awesome is it when someone chooses the perfect forum handle, and then lives up to it so well?

If I go, you're all going to miss me.

And are we all breathlessly awaiting Jay's response? Will he go with the "Good, couldn't have happened to a nicer baby-killer," or "How terrible that two lives were destroyed, one literally, on that dark day"?

Many of the usual suspects are missing.

As for your question, I'm betting Jay will go for the compassionate route rather than the vengeful one.

 

[CrushDance]

Except (going by the article) she knew something was going wrong and was restrained by "employees" and the botched procedure continued,\

Well what did she expect? She didn't want the baby in the first place. Should they have let her go, trauma much? If you go in with a killing intent you have to get it done.

I don't think leaving a half dead baby would have been a wise thing to do, and who knows exactly what happened "complications" can mean anything.

Like many other posters in this thread said "shit happens" she went for an abortion, "complications" arose and she got wounded and passed out. The abortion was a success that's all that matters.

IMO she got what she wanted. The medical team made a big mistake for sure and it should be looked into, but all these things require a degree of risk. It's like eating an apple, you have to wait till it's ripe before you can pluck it.

Still, wonder what type of tools he was using to leave such a huge gash or whatever. I feel really bad for her and it's unfortunate that such a situation can occur in our advanced society with all the medical know how and tools that we have. We know so much about life and the human body that something like this happening is hard to understand.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Except (going by the article) she knew something was going wrong and was restrained by "employees" and the botched procedure continued, the complications of which ignored by the person performing the procedure, who then set her on her way, only to have her pass out because of the clinician's incompetence. If this was NOT an abortion, would you guys be spinning so hard, when you know little about the situation? I don't think so. You're clouded by your politics and unable to see anything but "OMG THIS MIGHT BE BAD FOR MY TEAM OMG"

And most of us are thinking about medical procedures outside of abortions. What would be normal procedure in those cases?

If it was any medical procedure, not just an abortion, this seems like the reasonable approach to take. No it's not going to save all lives. But it does seem like a procedure designed to save more lives than the alternative (i.e. acquiessing to a panicking patient midway into an operation).

OTOH, if it's not normal medical procedure to ignore a panicking patient midway into an operation, well then, there's nothing to say and no point to be made.

 

[adamsappel]

Except (going by the article) she knew something was going wrong and was restrained by "employees" and the botched procedure continued, the complications of which ignored by the person performing the procedure, who then set her on her way, only to have her pass out because of the clinician's incompetence. If this was NOT an abortion, would you guys be spinning so hard, when you know little about the situation? I don't think so. You're clouded by your politics and unable to see anything but "OMG THIS MIGHT BE BAD FOR MY TEAM OMG"

The trouble is we have to "go by the article," which is little more than anti-abortion propoganda. It's tough for Instigator to find "Woman has uncomplicated abortion, her life is not ruined" articles.

I don't know, are abortions painful as a matter of course? Does Suzy the receptionist assist if needed? I do agree that "our team" might be defending this one a little too reflexively (though some of the early responses seem sarcastic or mocking of typical pro-life statements), but until we have a better source of info it's hard to make a clear judgment on either side.

 

[happyfunball]

Where were you in the "what is rape" threads?



True, and as others have said this story seems suspect in the first place. At the same time, I'm disgusted by the folks who immediately go into spin mode when, if accurate, this is clearly a tragedy. It's almost as though folks can't see beyond their hardened political issues, to the people they affect. F/E, 40 years-old or not, unmarried or not, if this was your girlfriend you'd be fucking livid, and would have every right. You certainly wouldn't be joking that "stuff breaks" or that this is all good in the name of some greater intellectual pursuit. The political aspect wouldn't even cross your mind.

Oh well thankfully the political aspect never crossed your mind and hey thanks for informing everyone that Planned Parenthood imprisons people and goes all Josef Mengele on them. I'm sure you didn't leave anything out of that little anecdote.

 

[APF]

Oh well thankfully the political aspect never crossed your mind

Considering I'm pro-abortion, no it didn't.

 

[Tyrannical]

Has it ever struck anyone as odd that a medical procedure such as an abortion which is basicly surgery is performed in a clinic and not a hospitol?

 

[JayDubya]

What would you prefer. Legal abortion goes wrong, complications, women sues, if mistakes made measure taken to prevent them happening again, doctor punished if necessary.

Back alley abortion goes wrong, complications, woman probably dies but if survives is unlikely to have any chance of recovery be it seeing the 'doctor' jailed or monetary compensation.

I pick Door #2, though if Door #3 is just like #2 but includes prison time for all involved then I want that one.

However, if I initially pick Door #2 and he shows me Door #1, I know that I'm statistically less likely to get a goat if I then pick Door #3.

What were we talking about again?

And are we all breathlessly awaiting Jay's response? Will he go with the "Good, couldn't have happened to a nicer baby-killer," or "How terrible that two lives were destroyed, one literally, on that dark day"?

Bet you didn't predict the Monty Hall problem, did you! *DUUUUUHN* NO ONE EXPECTS THE MONTY HALL PROBLEM.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Well it is being reported on a site called lifesite.

It's not like the real term (vacuum aspiration) sounds less vacuum cleaner related.

The story sounds suspect.

Why?

I mean, general anesthetic isn't required for an abortion, complications/malpractice can happen, and a person in the middle of a procedure might hurt themselves worse if they tried to stop and could have easily needed to be restrained to get to a point where the procedure could be safely stopped. Or is it some other reason you think it's suspect?

The people that assist a Doctor on a medical procedure?

Not everyone who assists in medical procedures are nurses. APF's question is a valid one, although jumping to the conclusion that they weren't nurses (not that anyone necessarily has) based on a report from such an obviously biased source isn't quite as valid.

Has it ever struck anyone as odd that a medical procedure such as an abortion which is basicly surgery is performed in a clinic and not a hospitol?

I had some oral surgery done in a clinic and a procedure on my ears in a glorified clinic. Even went under general anesthetic both times. Hell, I even had a procedure done in my GP's office that was billed "office surgery." So... not really.

 

[CrushDance]

Has it ever struck anyone as odd that a medical procedure such as an abortion which is basicly surgery is performed in a clinic and not a hospitol?

"Medical procedure" not really. It's not something needed to be done in order to save your life(Even in those cases the person actually wants the child and goes to the hospital since they think they're having a delivery and complications arise)this is something people do because...they do. Hence why they have special clinics for such things.

 

[BigGreenMat]

Has it ever struck anyone as odd that a medical procedure such as an abortion which is basicly surgery is performed in a clinic and not a hospitol?

No. Many many surgeries are performed in clinics. Many which have much higher complication rates than abortion too.

 

[M3wThr33]

Has it ever struck anyone as odd that a medical procedure such as an abortion which is basicly surgery is performed in a clinic and not a hospitol?

Colonoscopies are done in clinics. I had mine done there. Both times. This year.

 

[adamsappel]

As for your question, I'm betting Jay will go for the compassionate route rather than the vengeful one.

Bet you didn't predict the Monty Hall problem, did you! *DUUUUUHN* NO ONE EXPECTS THE MONTY HALL PROBLEM.

I knew Jay wasn't going to go with the sympathy, but I did forget about the "everybody goes to prison" option. Well played!

 

[JayDubya]

I knew Jay wasn't going to go with the sympathy, but I did forget about the "everybody goes to prison" option. Well played!

I'd say the prison option is kind of vengeful, but that's okay because they deserve it.

At any rate, when I first saw this thread this morning before I left the house, I kind of just growled at it like I do most threads on this subject.

I believe my first two mental responses were, in respective order, "Shame about the other 20%," and "Well, at least she's sterile now." So if Instigator were actually a betting man, he would have lost some dough.

But by the time I got home I was feeling a bit sillier. So you got Python coupled with probability puzzles.

 

[Barnolde]

JayDubya would kick a baby if it meant protecting a fetus.

 

[ZAK]

Only if there wasn't anybody else around. Then he could claim it consented.

 

[JayDubya]

JayDubya would kick a baby if it meant protecting a fetus.

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