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A wild spec sheet has appeared!

Tripolygon

Banned
Common misconception about Bluetooth and DS4
Yes because Xbox Controller has 2ms latency in comparison with DualShit Controller which has 6ms
1. DS4 has lower latency and higher poling rate than Xbox One controller.
SoA3HGY.png


Xbox One - USB cable: 125Hz
Xbox One - Bluetooth: 125Hz
DS4 - USB cable: 250Hz
DS4 - Bluetooth: 500Hz

The Xbox Series X won't have Bluetooth, similarly to the Xbox One, Xbox One S, and Xbox One X. The reason is simple; the Bluetooth signal isn't strong enough to meet Microsoft's specifications for latency.
Yes it is. The bandwidth is also high enough to meet the needs of sending the few bytes of data needed for input but not high enough for high fidelity ultra low latency game audio needs.

Microsoft's signal is far stronger than Bluetooth, and since many people typically game while sitting far away from their consoles in the living room or so on, Bluetooth's susceptibility to interference increases exponentially at longer ranges.
The range of Bluetooth is 100 meters but normal implementation is usually around 30m. That is enough range for a typical standard living room setup.
 

ANIMAL1975

Member
25TF LOLOLOLOL

Craig needs some flops I'll tell ya
Why are you guys shooting the messenger:
"Without hardware acceleration, this work could have been done in the shaders, but would have consumed over 13 TFLOPs alone,” Xbox system architect Andrew Goossen tells the site. “For the Series X, this work is offloaded onto dedicated hardware and the shader can continue to run in parallel with full performance. In other words, Series X can effectively tap the equivalent of well over 25 TFLOPs of performance while ray tracing."
Blame the sauce, sorry i mean source

...guess Andrew and the team found a way to patch Tflops also, going by Halo post event PR :messenger_medmask:
 

Azurro

Banned
CPU clock speeds are wrong for the Series X, it's 3.6 with SMT.

Since when is PS5 10.8TF?

The PS5 has a 40 CU in its APU, with 4 disabled for yields. That calculation is taking into account a rumor going around that the yields are so good that 2 of those 4 CUs could be enabled.
 

MastaKiiLA

Member
Isn't this just a spreadsheet compiling all the information spitballed thus far on forums like this one? I see nothing new in there.
 

Amiga

Member
Or we could use the dedicated hardware decompression built into this amazing piece of new technology and have games be reasonably sized while not losing any performance.....since the geniuses at Sony thought about this and made sure the system had "dedicated" hardware to do this very thing!

Being able to install 2 or 3 games on your nextgen console before needing to spend 200 dollars on a 4.0 doesnt make sense.
You might as well just sell me the game on a 256GB 4.0.
My point is specifically 3rd party games who run code streams at 4.8gs on XBSX, there is an extra advantage if they push Raw. It's up to them. some developers will use it and some will not.
And you can use external HDDs to expand archive storage. affordable 4TB or go all out on 16TB.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
PS5 SSD Raw speed =5.5
XBSX SSD compressed speed =4.8

this is going to be a thing for 3rd party devs, if they cap their code streaming at 4.8 for the xboxSX they can skip compression altogether on PS5 and just push Raw data directly, this means the PS5 the APU can run processing in less time, potentially giving better frame rates.

PS5 has even more faster specs:

PS5 SSD lanes = 4> 2 for XBSX
PS5 SSD channels = 12> 4 for XBSX
PS5 SSD priority levels = 6> 2 for the XBSX
PS5 I/O max throughput = 22> 6 for the XBSX

Decompression using Oodle Texture (RDO) + Kraken is free as it is done offline when the game code and assets are exported and the game image is created. You do not save APU processing time by not compressing data (Kraken is a HW decompressor).
The official Sony figure may not include Oodle Texture RDO optimised texture preparation.

You only need a bit of compute power to decode the textures IF you use the BC7Prep extra preparation step for even higher texture compression rates.
 

Amiga

Member
Decompression using Oodle Texture (RDO) + Kraken is free as it is done offline when the game code and assets are exported and the game image is created. You do not save APU processing time by not compressing data (Kraken is a HW decompressor).
The official Sony figure may not include Oodle Texture RDO optimised texture preparation.

You only need a bit of compute power to decode the textures IF you use the BC7Prep extra preparation step for even higher texture compression rates.
doesn't Raw save time feeding the RAM?
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
My point is specifically 3rd party games who run code streams at 4.8gs on XBSX, there is an extra advantage if they push Raw. It's up to them. some developers will use it and some will not.
And you can use external HDDs to expand archive storage. affordable 4TB or go all out on 16TB.

So the game will be say 100GB on XSX and 300GB on PS5.

PS5 owners dont have to worry because they can then transfer that 300GB game slow as fuck to their cheap external HDD every time they want to play said game because they bought 5 games at launch and they wont all fit on the 800GB SSD internally and Final Flash 4.0 SSDs arent readily available yet.

And whats all this stress worth?
Getting drops to 59.2 only 0.000000003% of the time instead of 0.000000006% of the time.

doesn't Raw save time feeding the RAM?

The HW solution almost completely counteracts the need or perceived advantage of leaving the game uncompressed.

You wouldnt be gaining anything truly tangible compared to what users would very plainly see as a massive massive game storage wise.
 

JonnyMP3

Member
doesn't Raw save time feeding the RAM?
Difference should be negligible. Raw data still has to go through the I/O controller into RAM.
The kraken chip should have already decompressed everything within itself before the I/O controller moves it to the RAM.
 

JonnyMP3

Member
So the game will be say 100GB on XSX and 300GB on PS5.

PS5 owners dont have to worry because they can then transfer that 300GB game slow as fuck to their cheap external HDD every time they want to play said game because they bought 5 games at launch and they wont all fit on the 800GB SSD internally and Final Flash 4.0 SSDs arent readily available yet.

And whats all this stress worth?
Getting drops to 59.2 only 0.000000003% of the time instead of 0.000000006% of the time.



The HW solution almost completely counteracts the need or perceived advantage of leaving the game uncompressed.

You wouldnt be gaining anything truly tangible compared to what users would very plainly see as a massive massive game storage wise.
PS5 won't run straight off HDDs. You can use HDD as storage for PS5 games. But you need to continuously swap the game between the Hard Drive and SSD drive to play games. So it wouldn't be 300GB, it'll be the same as the XSX of 100GB.
 

Amiga

Member
So the game will be say 100GB on XSX and 300GB on PS5.

PS5 owners dont have to worry because they can then transfer that 300GB game slow as fuck to their cheap external HDD every time they want to play said game because they bought 5 games at launch and they wont all fit on the 800GB SSD internally and Final Flash 4.0 SSDs arent readily available yet.

And whats all this stress worth?
Getting drops to 59.2 only 0.000000003% of the time instead of 0.000000006% of the time.



The HW solution almost completely counteracts the need or perceived advantage of leaving the game uncompressed.

You wouldnt be gaining anything truly tangible compared to what users would very plainly see as a massive massive game storage wise.
I don't have a Switch memory expansion, I only play one game at a time. It's manageable without extra cost. a console gives you the minimal requirements shared by everyone. you can spend on extra convenience however you choose.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
PS5 won't run straight off HDDs. You can use HDD as storage for PS5 games. But you need to continuously swap the game between the Hard Drive and SSD drive to play games. So it wouldn't be 300GB, it'll be the same as the XSX of 100GB.

You arent following the chain of posts my friend.

Amiga said PS5 could store the games uncompressed because it has more throughput.
Its RAW speed is about equal to the XSXs compressed throughput.
So compress on XSX while uncompressed on PS5. (for a theoretical increase in performance)
Im trying to convince him/them that this is a bad idea.

If the game is in an uncompressed state it would be bigger than a game that is in a compressed state.
So compressed 100GB vs 300GB uncompressed.
The PS5 has limited SSD space internally.
A Final Flash 4.0 SSD will likely cost half the console (~$200)
Amiga suggests cheap HDD.
PS5 cant play games off HDD, which means user will have to transfer large uncompressed games slow as fuck between HDD and SSD everytime they want to play.

The alternative is to use the PS5s stellar dedicated hardware decompression to keep games sizes reasonable while maintaining excellent performance as the PS5 is designed with this very technique in mind.

I don't have a Switch memory expansion, I only play one game at a time. It's manageable without extra cost. a console gives you the minimal requirements shared by everyone. you can spend on extra convenience however you choose.

3 x 300GB games will lapse the PS5s SSD.
The attach rate of PS4 was 9 games.
Assuming that remains the same, hell PS5 owners will have even lowballing atleast 6 games.

Making the average game be 300+GBs is dumb when you have brilliant hardware that can do decompression for you basically for free.
 

JonnyMP3

Member
I don't have a Switch memory expansion, I only play one game at a time. It's manageable without extra cost. a console gives you the minimal requirements shared by everyone. you can spend on extra convenience however you choose.
Doesn't matter. The 100GB vs 300GB argument is false unless the PS5 is using stupendously higher quality and fidelity assets than the XSX, which I doubt, both games will be roughly the same size.
Both machines have SSDs with their own compression algorithms but just that 1 is utterly superior to the other.
If a game is going to be compressed in one machine, it'll be compressed on the other. Just that one console does about twice the speed of the other Raw or Compressed.
There's no situation where 3rd party will go Raw with 1 and Compressed on another.
 

JonnyMP3

Member
You arent following the chain of posts my friend.

Amiga said PS5 could store the games uncompressed because it has more throughput.
Its RAW speed is about equal to the XSXs compressed throughput.
So compress on XSX while uncompressed on PS5. (for a theoretical increase in performance)
Im trying to convince him/them that this is a bad idea.

If the game is in an uncompressed state it would be bigger than a game that is in a compressed state.
So compressed 100GB vs 300GB uncompressed.
The PS5 has limited SSD space internally.
A Final Flash 4.0 SSD will likely cost half the console (~$200)
Amiga suggests cheap HDD.
PS5 cant play games off HDD, which means user will have to transfer large uncompressed games slow as fuck between HDD and SSD everytime they want to play.

The alternative is to use the PS5s stellar dedicated hardware decompression to keep games sizes reasonable while maintaining excellent performance as the PS5 is designed with this very technique in mind.



3 x 300GB games will lapse the PS5s SSD.
The attach rate of PS4 was 9 games.
Assuming that remains the same, hell PS5 owners will have even lowballing atleast 6 games.

Making the average game be 300+GBs is dumb when you have brilliant hardware that can do decompression for you basically for free.
Oh yeah I agree. As my post says, there's no way that 3rd party would separate Raw and Compressed for both platforms. 👍
 

Amiga

Member
Making the average game be 300+GBs is dumb when you have brilliant hardware that can do decompression for you basically for free.
only a few out of hundreds of current gen games are over 100gb, so even uncompressed the average will be about 120gb.

Both machines have SSDs with their own compression algorithms but just that 1 is utterly superior to the other.

10% is utterly ?
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
doesn't Raw save time feeding the RAM?

You may save a very tiny amount of time based on the latency that the HW decoder may add (the HW decompressor and DMA engine avoid wasting CPU cycles, but they are just super super fast not infinitely fast), but that would impact mostly very very small asset requests that conversely tend to use the SSD bandwidth a bit poorly. Also, you are going to take a lot longer to transfer the data too.

There is a use case potentially so it is nice to have it as an option, but going with Oodle Texture + Kraken would be the best choice 99.8% of the time I’d think.
 
The PS5 has a 40 CU in its APU, with 4 disabled for yields. That calculation is taking into account a rumor going around that the yields are so good that 2 of those 4 CUs could be enabled.

Then they should've reflected it in their numbers. Same for Series X, the info as presented here puts it at 12.28 not 12 (and it's never actually been a flush 12, but 12.147).

You have to make these things look professional otherwise it comes off like a hack job. Those aren't the only specs off with the sheet, either, rumored or not. And if they can't pin a source, then for all we know it's just a Channer or something doing it for the lolz.
 

Polygonal_Sprite

Gold Member
10.8tf ps5?

The fuck?

Sony could well have bumped their clocks to get closer to Series X. Series X of course could and will probably do the same as I would imagine they have more wiggle room with regards power draw and heat with their more PC like case.

Will be interesting to see final confirmed specs once factory settings leak during manufacturing.
 
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TheContact

Member
CPU clock speeds are wrong for the Series X, it's 3.6 with SMT.

Since when is PS5 10.8TF?

it's 10.28 at least from this article. Looks like a typo.

I wouldn't trust this tech sheet at all. How do they not know if it has wifi 6 in it? That would be something you can tell just by opening up the console and looking at the card.
 
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Kerlurk

Banned
 
Last edited:

TheContact

Member
Common misconception about Bluetooth and DS4

1. DS4 has lower latency and higher poling rate than Xbox One controller.
SoA3HGY.png


Xbox One - USB cable: 125Hz
Xbox One - Bluetooth: 125Hz
DS4 - USB cable: 250Hz
DS4 - Bluetooth: 500Hz


Yes it is. The bandwidth is also high enough to meet the needs of sending the few bytes of data needed for input but not high enough for high fidelity ultra low latency game audio needs.


The range of Bluetooth is 100 meters but normal implementation is usually around 30m. That is enough range for a typical standard living room setup.

how on earth does a wired xbox one controller have more input lag than a ds4 controller using bluetooth?
 
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