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A Wild SteamBoy Appeared. Smach Zero. From $699...
- Thread starter Crayon
- Start date
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Ooooh. How so i pronounce it though? Smack? Smache? Smaik? Covfefe?
I don't think it was intended as a scam, but promising something without having the expertise and resources to deliver and going the crowdfunding route is basically equivalent to a scam to the backers.
NoFaceNico
Member
The guy who made their "prototypes" just had a meltdown on my twitter:
Yes, I am StopDrop&Retro
Yes, I am StopDrop&Retro
DESTROYA
Member
You call that a meltdown? I think your trying to hard.
I don't think it's a scam but maybe they bit off a bit more they can handle.
NoFaceNico
Member
Did you even bother to go check it out?
He's still goin'!! I'm in bed and my phone keeps beeping.
Is not a "big" meltdown, but when a representative of a tech company tells a member of the press what amounts to "you do it if you think is so easy" over guaranteed criticism, looks kinda bad IMHO.
NoFaceNico
Member
Or when the guy who made the prototype for Kickstarter says (sorry but I'm tired of screen capping): "I don't know if meets or not KS, sorry but isn't my campaign. It's not my job check that. We do that costumer ask to do."
https://twitter.com/ppelaezc/status/890488054745636865
By the way, he is listed as a team member on the campaign.
In other words he's saying that even though he's making the device that he knows will be passed off as a prototype to Kickstarter (remember, they had a previous campaign), it's not his job to know what the prototype requirements are. He just does whatever he's asked to do and it's their job to make sure it meets requirements... even though he's the one that made it.
These tweets are very troubling for a project that's been so tight lipped about their intentions so far.
https://twitter.com/ppelaezc/status/890488054745636865
By the way, he is listed as a team member on the campaign.
In other words he's saying that even though he's making the device that he knows will be passed off as a prototype to Kickstarter (remember, they had a previous campaign), it's not his job to know what the prototype requirements are. He just does whatever he's asked to do and it's their job to make sure it meets requirements... even though he's the one that made it.
These tweets are very troubling for a project that's been so tight lipped about their intentions so far.
snail_maze
Member
Honestly, that seems like a fair enough stance for him to take. The responsibility lies more with the people running the project rather than someone they contract to build sth. He just does what his clients ask him to. Not his job to decide whether or not they claim it's something that it's not.
Maybe I'm missing something and he is more involved in the project than just building things for them, but I don't see why he should be getting flak for doing his job
NoFaceNico
Member
Will they sue GAF now?
Blam
Member
lol
DrROBschiz
Member
Why are they concerned with hiding the prototype?
Blam
Member
Because a bad prototype can damage reputation.
Because they gutted a cheap Chinese tablet and a Steam controller and glued them inside a plastic shell and called it a prototype.
Considering they said they won't go after StopDrop&Retro for a video which has caused more damage to their reputation than any picture I could post ever will, I doubt they'll go after me.
Also, I think they're smart enough to realize how bad a headline "Smach Z Devs Sue Backer" would be given how many people already think it's a scam with news stories like this: SMACH Z handheld gaming PC is in very deep trouble. For the record: I don't think that it's a scam, but I do feel their ambition got the better of them (remember: They wanted to release the Smach-Z in April of this year) and the handling of the Rhomb.io fallout has been...messy, to say the least.
Excuse the double post: When I tried accessing one of the Smach-Z forum topics, it gave me a "403 Forbidden" error and one of the topics, judging by the URL, appeared to involve an "NDA reminder for backers". Hmm...
EDIT: I'm rather surprised they did not e-mail me directly in regards to the "copyright infringement" before they decided to ban me (I can access the forum itself but I can't view any topics or threads without getting a 403).
EDIT: I'm rather surprised they did not e-mail me directly in regards to the "copyright infringement" before they decided to ban me (I can access the forum itself but I can't view any topics or threads without getting a 403).
Blam
Member
I wonder hmm.
IlGialloMondadori
Member
This is a long way from production.Good luck with that takedown lol
And that's why I've never shared anything other than Kickstarter updates since I don't want to get blocked from the forum.
Looking at what Pedro has said on Twitter and doing some digging of my own I feel it is fair to say that they did purchase the pcb from the ODM and did not take it from another tablet.
https://lazure2.wordpress.com/2014/...-trail-entry-v2-1-z3735g-and-z3735f-socs-mig/
Looking at what Pedro has said on Twitter and doing some digging of my own I feel it is fair to say that they did purchase the pcb from the ODM and did not take it from another tablet.
https://lazure2.wordpress.com/2014/...-trail-entry-v2-1-z3735g-and-z3735f-socs-mig/
imasD used a Emdoor reference board that they sell to and are used in many other companies tablets.
Interesting. Is still a technological dead-end though, as there's no way to go from that to a powerful. modular AMD chip they pitched, and there's the big issue of the controller technology.
Undoubtedly.
But from what I can piece together this was always meant to be a dead end, imasD's modules were no where near complete to make anything anytime in the near future and their contract stipulated they make a couple devices that could be shown off at trade fairs to raise interest in the concept of a handheld steam device before the kickstarter launch with no requirements on the internal components other than certain games achieving above a set framerate.
And well everything fell apart and here we are.
As I said before despite this project being a trainwreck at this point I don't have much of a issue with them doing what they did with the Emdoor board to make their prototype other than its very poor initial showing at Gamescom since they've been clear from the beginning of the kickstarter its internals were entirely different from the final product, what I take exception to is the claim the prototype said it was used imasD's modules to make it which is not true in the slightest.
NoFaceNico
Member
That would be such a great explanation if getting there weren't as hard as pulling teeth. Remember, in his Reddit AMA where he was supposed to clear his name and put these concerns to rest, many people were asking if it was a tablet and he never brought this up. I think he was hoping he could just keep denying it was ever a tablet (clearly in bad faith, mind you) and hope that as long as he kept his course this would all go away.
That ODM stuff sounds like something he came up with on the fly after I cornered him with the correct off-brand version of Linx tablet, the Cube iWork10 U100GT. Which is the exact same motherboard as what they used, all the way down to v6.2
From Rhomb (the bottom one was used in the proto):
Cube iWork10 U100GT (source):
And just today Smach issued a DMCA takedown on their opened prototype pic I shared on twitter. I'm not going to fight it, I'm going to keep the takedown in my image gallery. It'll be a nice memento after this project fails completely.
If what they've done with their "prototype" was nothing to be ashamed of, then why are they so ashamed of it?
Well, it's official!
No direct communication whatsoever.
Can't say i'm surprised, just annoyed. Am I not good enough to threaten with copyright claims?
No direct communication whatsoever.
BUSTED!!
Can't say i'm surprised, just annoyed. Am I not good enough to threaten with copyright claims?
NoFaceNico
Member
BUSTED!!
Well, it's official!
No direct communication whatsoever.
Can't say i'm surprised, just annoyed. Am I not good enough to threaten with copyright claims?
Do they realize you are one of their few defenders over here? And how did they found out it was you? I don't believe them being sophisticated enough to use per user water marks for their forum images.
I'll defend the concept i.e. a portable, modular PC with the ability to authentically emulate the controls of various consoles, and that the project is not a scam. I'm not going to defend the mess they've made following the Rhomb.io fallout, that speaks for itself. As for how they found it was me, they likely Google'd the image and found it posted here.
Well, I defend the concept of x86 handhelds, as long as they are realistic. And IMHO, this wasn't from the start.
smach = sm(ah)ck. Can someone tl;dr why the switch can have a 15w tdp soc but this cant. I know they operate on different architectures but the x86 has come along way since 5 years ago and don't operate at such high temperatures anymore. Is it also a financial issue? do you think if they had the r&d budget of a big publisher we could have gotten this thing done a while ago?
The Switch doesn't draw 15w in handheld mode. There's a reason why the device underclocks when undocked, and its still underclocked while docked! Also, x86 isn't as power efficient as ARM.
Hmm. the nvidia shield tablet had a higher power draw than the switch and it was handheld only. the shield portably had a power draw of around 30w as well but was much bulkier.
whats the realistic power draw for a device with the form factor of a switch that has a x86 chip?
Honestly i want this thing to succeed soooo bad. not because i like it, but because it could potentially encourage other companies (much bigger, better more competent companies) to do something similar. I'm hoping ryzen mobile could get razer to jump back into the mix and release a new edge tablet. Maybe even Sony a couple years down the line could release some sort of ps4 tablet when 7nm is a thing. Not interested in the switch but a razer edge 2, PS4 portable or a surface xbox would be right down my alley.
I don't where are you getting your power draw figures from, but they are wrong. And nope, there's no chance of a 7nm PS4 on Switch form factor. A $2K 10 inch table, maybe.
Well, Razer was developing a handheld called the Razer Switchblade, but there's been no info about it for roughly 4 years and is presumably no longer in development. If they ever do revive the project, they could utilize Ryzen APU/CPU and AMD Vega tech. As for current-gen console power, the Smach Team says the device will now be closer to the Xbone but that sounds a bit...unrealistic given they plan on having 5+ hours of playtime with their current battery setup.
SinCityAssassin
Member
Yeah that ain't happening for a while at a reasonable price.
In addition to Bleujour (maybe? See the rest of the update for more info), BQ and TicNova, Team Smach is now partnering with a company called OnTesting for development of the Smach Z. According to OnTesting's website, they're a company based in Barcelona that have a fairly robust amount of experience in electronic manufacturing with various projects in the medical, industrial and aquatic fields, among others. Details about the new team are as follows:
They are really bitter about ImasD's departure. One thing that's confusing about this update is that they "hope" to add the help of Bleujour when an earlier update said that Bleujour was already being negotiated with to aid the project.
They are really bitter about ImasD's departure. One thing that's confusing about this update is that they "hope" to add the help of Bleujour when an earlier update said that Bleujour was already being negotiated with to aid the project.
A new update(s) to Smach Z:
It's weird they didn't post anything like this in the update section of their Kickstarter but hey, progress.
Hi,
If you remember, we originally designed the SMACH Z with smaller touchpads (35mm), because in our opinion it was a size big enough to play well and it allows to have a more compact design. However, during the development we encounter the problem that 35mm haptics were not custom parts and they cost a lot more money, because we had to create them only for us. Also the previous ODM company needed more room for the electronics, so we decided to go with the 40mm touchpads.
Recently, Cirque has added the 35mm size to the custom parts catalogue, due to the new VR Steam controller, allowing us to buy that size at the same price than 40mm. Also, the new development team has confirmed us that they dont need as much room for the electronics, so we can go back to the original SMACH Z design.
We asked Cirque for some samples of the 35mm size and we have been testing them. They work as good as the 40mm, so we have decided to go with 35mm. This imply also modifying the mechanical model, but that was already planned because the current one needs corrections and modifications.
Here you can see both sizes, 35mm at left and 40mm at right:
Hi,
Weve been working on design a new controller board and now its complete. This was one of the tasks that was already done by the previous ODM but unfortunately their design was using a microcontroller too expensive. We need to reduce the cost of the components per unit, its too high now, so changing this component was important. Designing a new controller board allows us to work on the final PCB from this board base while we have a first version to start working on firmwares and integrations.
Additionally, the WIFI & bluetooth was not properly integrated and now its prepared to evolve the current design into the final device PCB.The new design has been already sent for manufacturing. Until it arrives, our programmer works with a development board with the same PIC Microcontroller.
It's weird they didn't post anything like this in the update section of their Kickstarter but hey, progress.
So something was pointed out to me recently in regards to most of the updates being limited to the forums and not the Kickstarter/Indiegogo campaign: On their Facebook page, Team Smach made their first post in over half a year. The post starts off almost identical to a previous (public) post on their Kickstarter before it delves into a new tidbit:
Now, it's possible that something was lost in translation since, as mentioned before, they haven't posted on their Facebook page since January but it sounds like the project is going to limit all future updates to the forums until the project is complete, a theory that is supported by the fact that the above post was information that can be found on the Smach forums and was not made available through the Kickstarter via an update (their Kickstarter hasn't received an update since July 17th when they announced Vega/Ryzen components would be used). If that is the case, Smach's decision doesn't aid the current confusion and concerns over the project when substantial information such as redesigning the console while retaining modularity are not simple changes that one can expect to commission a new team to pick up where the last one left off, let alone quell the ongoing suspicion over the project's operations.
Now, it's possible that something was lost in translation since, as mentioned before, they haven't posted on their Facebook page since January but it sounds like the project is going to limit all future updates to the forums until the project is complete, a theory that is supported by the fact that the above post was information that can be found on the Smach forums and was not made available through the Kickstarter via an update (their Kickstarter hasn't received an update since July 17th when they announced Vega/Ryzen components would be used). If that is the case, Smach's decision doesn't aid the current confusion and concerns over the project when substantial information such as redesigning the console while retaining modularity are not simple changes that one can expect to commission a new team to pick up where the last one left off, let alone quell the ongoing suspicion over the project's operations.
salaciousdrift
Member
With this latest shift in how they are communicating with their customers I wonder if Indiegogo risk group was reviewing the campaign. Crowdfunding by definition generally has extremely delayed delivery. Payment processors will often review the volume, transparency and response to communication in determining whether or not to continue supporting a troubled merchant. With all of the issues they've experienced, especially in the last couple months, and their slowed velocity of payments since the campaign is over I am certain that their chargebacks are problematic and if they exceed 100 in a month with Visa or Mastercard that would be a violation for Indiegogo. Hiding customer communication from a processor could be a way to slow adverse action.
Supposedly (I say supposedly since it's not confirmed) there have been people who've requested a chargeback for their credit cards that have been banned from the forums so, if true, this doesn't sound they're communicating with their customers so much as keeping them in the dark for asking questions or being concerned about the current state of the project.
salaciousdrift
Member
That is actually a typical tactic for merchant's with sinking campaigns. If you maintain all official discourse in a closed environment than you can pretty easily ban people and then curate/censor their last posts before their removal. Closing off public communication and banning customers who have issued a chargeback is them trying to shore-up defenses from chargebacks and a collateral requirement from Indiegogo. If Indiegogo ends up requiring either a minimum held balance or a rolling held percentage they are sunk.
NoFaceNico
Member
Ah, I didn't see the latest updates to this thread.
I made a response video last month with updates, including the AMA: https://youtu.be/oMUPx4DL5Vo
My conclusion in this video is that the project is very obviously being run by idea men. They literally do no know how to make this thing. That's why they're contracting out all the work that doesn't involve 3D renders. Amazingly, they confirmed that accusation is true!! Here's their response in the Kickstarter comments:
So yes, they have no expertise when it comes to making hardware. They're just a team of guys who came up with the *groundbreaking* idea of creating a portable Steam/Windows machine with other people's money. It would be like if you hired interior designers to build you a castle. Of course they would need to outsource and subcontract all the work, they don't know a thing about construction and they're probably going to fuck everything up because they don't know what they're doing.
They also make some other limp defenses here about how Rhomb was right to claim their prototype wasn't a Linx tablet motherboard (no they weren't, it was just a different brand but exact same motherboard). They deny involvement with the PGS project (which I never said, I argued they were likely influenced by PGS' scheme). And they say my video is more of the same, which is somewhat true because they keep doubling down after I find more and more evidence.
There's a few more revelations in that comment. For one, they paid $80,000 for that fake prototype!! Someone better call Ben Heck, he's not being paid enough. Then combined with the other $200k paid to Rhomb, that's $280,000!! Smach Z raised a combined $660k from the IndieGoGo and KickStarter, so that's 42% of their funding paid to Rhomb. Then remember that these funding sites take roughly 10% off the top and that gives us 48% of their funding total left. And that's what we know of, it's not including taxes or what the Smach team have taken for themselves as "salaries." They priced this device lower than a GPD Win was ever sold for, but it's more complicated than a Win. So all those new updates, test boards and other mumbo jumbo mean nothing to me, even if they can make a finished unit they're never going to be able to cover the manufacturing costs for the backer's units.
Even worse, there's another line in that comment, they say "Both companies are in a litigation about that." which confirms something I've only heard rumors about, Rhomb and Smach are now lawyering up. That will get expensive REAL QUICK. And that's probably where whatever is left is going to get eaten up.
So yeah, these backers are royally fucked.
I made a response video last month with updates, including the AMA: https://youtu.be/oMUPx4DL5Vo
My conclusion in this video is that the project is very obviously being run by idea men. They literally do no know how to make this thing. That's why they're contracting out all the work that doesn't involve 3D renders. Amazingly, they confirmed that accusation is true!! Here's their response in the Kickstarter comments:
So yes, they have no expertise when it comes to making hardware. They're just a team of guys who came up with the *groundbreaking* idea of creating a portable Steam/Windows machine with other people's money. It would be like if you hired interior designers to build you a castle. Of course they would need to outsource and subcontract all the work, they don't know a thing about construction and they're probably going to fuck everything up because they don't know what they're doing.
They also make some other limp defenses here about how Rhomb was right to claim their prototype wasn't a Linx tablet motherboard (no they weren't, it was just a different brand but exact same motherboard). They deny involvement with the PGS project (which I never said, I argued they were likely influenced by PGS' scheme). And they say my video is more of the same, which is somewhat true because they keep doubling down after I find more and more evidence.
There's a few more revelations in that comment. For one, they paid $80,000 for that fake prototype!! Someone better call Ben Heck, he's not being paid enough. Then combined with the other $200k paid to Rhomb, that's $280,000!! Smach Z raised a combined $660k from the IndieGoGo and KickStarter, so that's 42% of their funding paid to Rhomb. Then remember that these funding sites take roughly 10% off the top and that gives us 48% of their funding total left. And that's what we know of, it's not including taxes or what the Smach team have taken for themselves as "salaries." They priced this device lower than a GPD Win was ever sold for, but it's more complicated than a Win. So all those new updates, test boards and other mumbo jumbo mean nothing to me, even if they can make a finished unit they're never going to be able to cover the manufacturing costs for the backer's units.
Even worse, there's another line in that comment, they say "Both companies are in a litigation about that." which confirms something I've only heard rumors about, Rhomb and Smach are now lawyering up. That will get expensive REAL QUICK. And that's probably where whatever is left is going to get eaten up.
So yeah, these backers are royally fucked.
Kickstarter Update #36
It's essentially just a recap of their progress from August. For a refresh, here's what we know and what new information was given:
-A new controller board has been designed to reduce costs and to properly integrate the promised Bluetooth/Wifi capabilities of the system:
Front
Back
Completed
PIC Microcontroller
-The circle touchpads are back to 35mm are Cirque added them to their catalogue for the same cost as their 40mm touchpads courtesy of the new VR Steam controller.
-The team is currently working on documentation which will result in a more accurate project plan schedule during the next month.
It's essentially just a recap of their progress from August. For a refresh, here's what we know and what new information was given:
-A new controller board has been designed to reduce costs and to properly integrate the promised Bluetooth/Wifi capabilities of the system:
Front
Back
Completed
PIC Microcontroller
-The circle touchpads are back to 35mm are Cirque added them to their catalogue for the same cost as their 40mm touchpads courtesy of the new VR Steam controller.
-The team is currently working on documentation which will result in a more accurate project plan schedule during the next month.
monstercameron
Neo Member
any word on the chipset being used?
I don't know power draw figures, but Switch no longer "automatically" underclocks when undocked. It's now software-controlled. So some games do and some don't.