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News According to E-mails submitted to court by Apple , Tim Sweeney asked Apple for a special deal.

Kataploom

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I can't believe the number of people on this site who slam Epic and Sweeney over this. Are any of you software engineers? Do you not understand what is at stake here? Epic is 100% in the right on this one in being able to install whatever software you want. Do you all REALLY like higher prices and less choice? I really don't understand this whole "Apple makes the computer, it can dictate whatever software it wants on it for all eternity!" complete and total horse crap.

Should we not be allowed to install software on our computers? Should car makers be allowed to tell us where we can drive? Should the manufacturer of a hammer tell us what nails we can use and what products we can build with it?

These phones are MORE important to most people than computers. The consumer should be able to install whatever they want on them. That doesn't mean the App Store has to go away. It would sure as hell would improve our choices however. Imagine, being able to have software upgrade licenses instead of endless subscriptions on iOS and Android (if you're not aware of the problem here, look up all the developer acrimony over this and how it harms businesses).

I do software dev for living. I don't want higher prices and close platforms, but I'll defend anyone else's right to have that if that's what they want, specially if it's their platform/service/whatever.

They're in their right to want and do so and violating that right "for the sake of the collective" is opening a pandora box that will set a precedent for all nasty things "in the name of people".

Apple is far from a monopoly, they have only around 20% marketshare and we already have one (Apple) or more open platforms on mobile, nothings stops us to use them, but if they want to take advantage of apple's work of cultivating a very profitable market, then they'll have to follow apple rules or invest the time and money Apple did to create their own.

Apple's in their right and even if I don't like, I'll defend their right to do so.

They're not charity or common property, or even a privately owned public place for ideas sharing as social media, they're a business which sole purpose is to make money and that should always be it and nothing else and apart from that, it's not even a first necessity thing.

If Epic broke their rules, Apple is on their right to do as they consider necessary. Heck, they can just ban them with no proper explaination and that's it, because they basically accepted that.

Also, I really don't like Apple and cannot even afford an iPhone (I don't pay that stuff with credit, it's just stupid imo) and hated Mac to dead when I had to use it in workplaces so not exactly an Apple fanboy.
 
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Nikana

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I hate Apple with a passion but I feel like this isn't something they are going to lose.

Sweeny had the same reaction when windows introduced the App store and went on Twitter and complained for weeks about it until eventually he ran out of energy.

I'd like to believe he's in this for the developer but I just don't buy it. His own company is supporting the ps5 which has many of the same walls and cuts, yet says nothing about it.
 
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Herr Edgy

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Jul 25, 2019
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"If other companies were in Apple's position they'd do the same!"

History isn't made with IFs. For now Apple is the prime example of selling underpowered hardware for more. When other companies will do it, I'll think about getting on their case. For now, there's one company that needs a harsh lesson, and that's Apple.
How hypocritical of you! You dare question this sleazy company that exists right now and just drains the industry while you don't question this other hypothetical sleazy company that doesn't exist yet? Thanks to your hypocrisy I will take all your logical arguments and throw them out the window! Thanks Obama!
 

Drewpee

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Apr 15, 2018
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The emails:

Tim Sweeney denied this happening on August 14th.

This is shady and the more I learn about this story the more my support goes to Apple. I don't think Tim handled himself professionally and the way he broke terms he already agreed to is shifty business practice.

This might hurt Epic far more than we realized. Why would another company do business with them? They'd run the risk of having any agreement broken and then getting sued.
 
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Kadayi

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This guy pretends like it’s his life mission to help developers and the billions he would gain in the process have nothing to do with it.

Indeed also who gives a fuck about developers at the end of the day? If you make a great compelling game it will sell, if it doesn't them the breaks. That's how capitalism works. The market decides. This whole idea that developers should be viewed as charity cases is retarded and all Tim is doing by using the Fortnite money to bankroll free games on EGS is to effectively devalue their worth as a whole in the eyes of all those Fortnite players snapping them up like pokemon. I think half the reason Valve quit with those 90% off discounts during the early Steam Sales is not because developers weren't keen (they got to choose their sale price after all), but because deep cuts like that actually irrevocably damage a brands perceived value in the long term. I think GOG doing the same right now is a mistake as well. If anything it just encourages people to hold out for the deep cut versus buy when it's 25 or 50% off. When you're giving away your AA or AAA title for free, you might potentially grow your fan base some for future titles, but in all honestly I think when you get something for free there's not necessarily any drive for the recipient to invest time in it because it didn't cost them anything to acquire it. In many ways you're reliant on boredom motivating them to give it the time of the day, and we live in an age of infinite distractions.
 
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Kenpachii

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Indeed also who gives a fuck about developers at the end of the day? If you make a great compelling game it will sell, if it doesn't them the breaks. That's how capitalism works. The market decides. This whole idea that developers should be viewed as charity cases is retarded and all Tim is doing by using the Fortnite money to bankroll free games on EGS is to effectively devalue their worth as a whole in the eyes of all those Fortnite players snapping them up like pokemon. I think half the reason Valve quit with those 90% off discounts during the early Steam Sales is not because developers weren't keen (they got to choose their sale price after all), but because deep cuts like that actually irrevocably damage a brands perceived value in the long term. I think GOG doing the same right now is a mistake as well. If anything it just encourages people to hold out for the deep cut versus buy when it's 25 or 50% off. When you're giving away your AA or AAA title for free, you might potentially grow your fan base some for future titles, but in all honestly I think when you get something for free there's not necessarily any drive for the recipient to invest time in it because it didn't cost them anything to acquire it. In many ways you're reliant on boredom motivating them to give it the time of the day, and we live in an age of infinite distractions.

Digital games have no value to start with, valve devalued the digital games by simple not offering a way to resell it to other users.
 
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BWJinxing

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Well the dictionary term of deal is

an agreement entered into by two or more parties for their mutual benefit, especially in a business or political context.

Epic's email attempted to reach a mutual understanding with Apple that the consumer, developers, and Epic, would benefit if apple agreed to change it's policy.

The opening is describing all the benefits for Epic, and tacked on "hope" about being for all.

Since Epic would benefit directly had Apple caved, it would be a deal, Apple would have to be in agreement, this policy change would be in their interest.

Epic asked for a deal.
 

Dodkrake

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If you actually read the email, he blatantly stated that he hopes Apple makes the features they requested available to ALL iOS developers. Just read the emails in the OP. I think this is going to be a big problem for Apple.

Reading the replies in here that are instantly dog pilling Epic without digging into the details is depressing.

EDIT: Here, I highlighted it for you...


The ones dogpilling are the douchebags that will defend apple when they agree on a price with a company and then refuse to pay because they think it's unfair (see the Qualcomm case, for example).
 

The Alien

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Feb 10, 2018
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Sure, Epic wanted a 'special deal' or shall we say a 'custom deal' with one of the largest app marketplaces in the world. That shit happens all the time.

I don't necessarily think Apple is wrong in this specific battle (nor do I think Epic is the savior we all need), but this is gonna open a huge can of worms for Apple (thankfully). How they operate their whole marketplace can be changed by the courts.
 
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Apple notes that Epic itself pointed out in a blog post this morning that there are other platforms on which players can play Fortnite if it remains blocked on iOS, and adds out that Epic hasn’t addressed the fact that the same logic behind its accusations that Apple is anti-competitive could be applied to Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo video game platforms.

I think this is something that should be noted on this matter.
 
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Nikana

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I'm sure someone knows but didn't Sweeny justify the consoles vs apple at one point and tried to say the 30 percent cut was fair on consoles but not on apple?
 

LordCBH

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I'm sure someone knows but didn't Sweeny justify the consoles vs apple at one point and tried to say the 30 percent cut was fair on consoles but not on apple?

if I remember correctly his argument was console makers had research and development costs. Which is a weird argument because the company he’s yelling about has those too.
 
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Nikana

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if I remember correctly his argument was console makers had research and development costs. Which is a weird argument because the company he’s yelling about has those too.
Ahh yes that's right. He said they needed to recoup R&D.

Like...those chips apple uses don't make themselves there Tim.
 

LordCBH

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Ahh yes that's right. He said they needed to recoup R&D.

Like...those chips apple uses don't make themselves there Tim.

they obviously grow on apple trees and Tim is just smart enough to see them for the naturally occurring phenomenon that they are!
 
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