"Act Of War" After Russia "Fires At Ukraine Ships", Seizes Three Vessels Off Crimea

Feb 1, 2017
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#53
'Democracy' at the end of a gun/regime change.
The only time guns were involved in regime change in post-soviet republic, there was Russia behind it.

These NGO's always set the stage for revolution and pump millions into dissident movements.
Because Sakharov or Solzhenitsyn were paid for being dissidents... oh wait...
That "paid protest" and magical NGOs (which in reality do little to nothing) making up minds of millions is a lame excuse happening each time Russian officials would need to explain "why most of our neighbors hate us so much".
You are mistaking it for mass media.

That's impossible and you know it.
Ukraine, a 50 million nation that inherited soviet army as it was mostly Ukrainians, would be a formidable force that would wipe the floor with whatever Kremlin could throw at them, if not the corrupt elite.


Looks like UA was checking for how much they can get away with rushing under the RU bridge without...
Because there are ways other than going under 15km "bridge" connecting Russia and occupied Crimea, to transport stuff from Mariupol, a major Ukrainian industrial city, right?

Or perhaps because Putin's approval rating is at new lows.
 
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Woo-Fu

incest on the subway
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#54
Russia putting those sailors on TV, A bit transparent there,
Or perhaps because Putin's approval rating is at new lows.
Putting those sailors on national TV seems like an awfully transparent move. I wonder what portion of the Russian populace buy it. Then again, I look at what percentage buy what comes out of Trump's mouth and I think "maybe most of them."
 
Likes: llien
Nov 8, 2018
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#55
Because there are ways other than going under 15km "bridge" connecting Russia and occupied Crimea, to transport stuff from Mariupol, a major Ukrainian industrial city, right? Or perhaps because Putin's approval rating is at new lows.
It weren't cargo ships with industrial city stuff, it were two armored artillery boats, these ones:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurza-class_boat
And what more, there were intel UA agents on board, it was confirm by UA officials:
SBU Head confirms presence of SBU officers on board of Ukrainian Navy ships captured by Russia - See more at: https://ssu.gov.ua/en/news/1/category/2/view/5463#.IWRe6NLU.dpbs

While I do not argue that Crimea according to UN law is Ukrainian territory and all this stuff, but you have to be a foul to think that RU will allow two such boats anywhere near their "physical" territory without prior approval.

As to cargo ships. RU did not arrest any of UA cargo ships passing under the bridge, some were stopped for check-up, but none were ever arrested, while UA has arresed two russian cargo ships in the Azov sea (one called Nord, and the other - Seabreeze):
https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/ukraine-detains-another-russian-ship

As to Putin's rating, I do not think that there are any threat for him to lose power, his rating is a way more than 50%. As to Poroshenko (UA president) his rating is:
A Rating Group poll in April 2018 showed that Petro Poroshenko has just 9% support, and his party only 7.5%.
https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacj...-alone-ukraine-politics-a-pre-election-year-0

So, I bet that Poroshenko organized this situation to have a legit reason to put Martial Law, which is on in UA for 30 day starting from Nov 28 as independent reports.

I do not need to say that during the Martial Law government can do anything to anyone without prior issuance of warrant or court order for it.

As to the influence of this event on Putin, russian rouble currency-exchange-rate fell and Putin's rating did not increase for sure.
 
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Feb 1, 2017
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#56
And what more, there were intel UA agents on board...
That's very provoking indeed.
How did were they spotted? I doubt they had "Intel UA Agent" banner in their hands.
Why on Earth would anyone come up with an explanation of this kind?


Ukrainian side claimed that:
1) Two artillery ships and one tug boat were heading from Odessa towards Mariupol
2) Russia was informed in advance (to my knowledge they didn't even have to)
censor.net.ua (Russian)
Ships were attacked, crew was captured. (I guess nobody is challenging that)

As to cargo ships. RU did not arrest any of UA cargo ships passing under the bridge, some were stopped for check-up
Remind me, does Turkey have rights to stop ships passing out from the Black Sea "for check ups" at will?
 
Nov 8, 2018
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#57
How did were they spotted? I doubt they had "Intel UA Agent" banner in their hands.
Hell I know, may be there is a rat in UA intel.

Remind me, does Turkey have rights to stop ships passing out from the Black Sea "for check ups" at will?
I do not know, as well as I do not know who controls Gibraltar (Spain? England?). But, I think, if a russian politician tells to blow up Gibraltar, then russian ships may be not allowed to or getting check-ups on their way through Gibraltar. Now, at least one Ukrainian politician (the deputy of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine - Igor Mosiychuk) proposed to blow up the bridge through Kerch, may be russians being extra careful for this reason.
 
Feb 22, 2018
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#58
Remind me, does Turkey have rights to stop ships passing out from the Black Sea "for check ups" at will?
Yes, it does. Even in peacetime it can force a docking and inspection if crew is not 100% cooperative. And if it finds something offensive it can confiscate the ships. Egypt can do the same regarding Suez crossing. In fact the US and its allies gave themselves the right to detain and confiscate North Korean ships in international waters.
 
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Likes: Oversemper
Nov 8, 2018
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#59
So Poroshenko set Martial Law until Dec 26 in 10 regions of Ukraine:
https://www.unian.info/politics/10355661-poroshenko-signs-off-martial-law-spox.html

When RU conquered Crimea they did not set Martial Law. When thousands of UA solders died in East Ukraine fighting RU army they did not set Martial Law.

When election is nigh and rating of Poroshenko is in the basement, they set Martial Law. Now that is a legit reason.
 
Feb 1, 2017
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#60
With the nasty little info such as ship blocking the passage under the bridge, this whole story, which by incident very actively covered by Russian media, turns into an apparent farce.
 
Nov 8, 2018
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#61
This whole story, which by incident very actively covered by Russian media, turns into an apparent farce.
What d'u mean? Could you translate it into human language?

By the way US media also covers it:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...lp-ukraine-s-petro-poroshenko-in-russia-clash:
Imposing martial law after a naval clash with Russia in the Kerch Strait looked like a political masterstroke for Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, coming ahead of an election that polls suggest he will lose. But by the time parliament had finished with his decree, it was clear he had snatched defeat from the jaws of victory
 
Nov 8, 2018
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#63
This is called pluralism, something rather normal in the West.
Always thought that mass media in the West is unbiased and not relatable to any political party (cf. RU and CN politically controlled mass media). Now you telling me that mass media in the West is politically plural? Or you meant a philosophical study of pluralism?

Back to the subject, Trump dumped Putin with a date in G20 for this incident. Rouble fell even dipper vs USD and EUR. Captured UA marines and intel agents are moved to a Moscow prison for two months. Upon trial they are facing up to 6 year of imprisonment. Poor guys, some of them are below 20 years old. Now Putin is in a difficult situation between being hated for lowering rouble even further (it is obvious that US will further sanction RU) or being humiliated as giving in to the West demands of releasing UA servicemen.
 
Feb 1, 2017
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#64
Always thought that mass media in the West is unbiased and not relatable to any political party...
There are all kinds of media in the West, some are not biased, some are a bit biased, some are very biased.
Pluralism is not just about being politically engaged, POV can vary on anything.
There is little to no government controlled media in the West, unlike in RU/CN.

Rouble fell even dipper vs USD and EUR.
Last time I've checked R. exchange rate was directly linked to oil price and since about 2016 to national bank's policies (e.g. buying "excess" dollars from oil price above 40$, but returning them, in case price would fall further down).

Trump dumped Putin with a date in G20 for this incident...
Russia is leveraging annexed Crimea to effectively block large part of Ukrainian coast, including industrial city of Mariupol, capturing Ukrainian marines in planned provocations and all retribution for it has been... Mr Trump not meeting with Mr Putin.

That will show him, yay!
 
Aug 11, 2018
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#65
Russia is leveraging annexed Crimea to effectively block large part of Ukrainian coast, including industrial city of Mariupol, capturing Ukrainian marines in planned provocations and all retribution for it has been... Mr Trump not meeting with Mr Putin.

That will show him, yay!
And then they had a meeting anyway :messenger_smiling:
 
Likes: llien
Mar 23, 2018
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#66
Western Europe should retreat out of Ukraine, and kick Ukraine out of the EU as they should never have been part of it to start with.

So for Western Europe there isn't much of a issue here then with Russia even remotely. For Ukraine however they are in a difficult spot now because Europe stripped them of there nukes it seems like which makes them a sheep for Russia.

If they however think that the west will help them when russia invades they are just fooling themselves the west doesn't care about anything past poland even remotely.
 
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Mar 23, 2018
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#68
Ukraine is not in the EU.
They never joined it, bad worded by me but honestly the contract they tried to push and actually partly did push didn't made much difference.

Europe should have never pushed for it and they wouldn't if it wasn't for the free labor that resides there. It just destabilizes the region even more as Russia is far from pleased that Ukraine joined it.

To some extent it also partly destabilized Europe itself as result indirectly.
 
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Nov 8, 2018
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#71
Or Russia could've just not invaded and annexed parts of Ukraine
No they could have not (from their point of view), because in Crimea there is a big navy base of russians, which has been established and operating there since russians took Crimea from turks in the end of 18th century. For russians it is granted that UA will eventually join NATO, and if Crimea had not been taken over then the RU navy base would have been kicked off from Crimea and replaced with a US navy base. That risk could've not been taken by Putin. So, the moment Putin lost control over the UA government - Crimea's fate has been decided. The question was how many people would die during the second Crimea conquest. Fortunately, pretty much no one (expect for some dying from poverty in russia due to the financial crisis* caused by the followed sanctions).
*wanted to spell it crysis, well, I am on a gaming forum after all :messenger_grinning_squinting:
 
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Jan 9, 2018
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#73
As a Latvian born and raised during the Soviet occupation of my country this whole Ukraine war makes me glad as fuck Latvia is in NATO.

It may be well and fine for all the western euros to bitch and moan about us but if it means I dont have to worry about my wife or kids dying in a fucking rocket attack im ok with that.

The most bizarre part is how close Ukrainians and Russians are in practically fucking everything.

Having said that, if the Baltics are hung out to dry, like i suspect they would be if Russia was actually serious about taking them, then i would send my wife and kids away from here and take up arms myself.
 
Jan 9, 2018
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#74
Russia putting those sailors on TV, A bit transparent there,


Putting those sailors on national TV seems like an awfully transparent move. I wonder what portion of the Russian populace buy it. Then again, I look at what percentage buy what comes out of Trump's mouth and I think "maybe most of them."
He is quite popular, even among the ethnic Russians living in the Baltics. The general consensus is that Russia can only be governed by a dictator
 
Nov 8, 2018
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#75
As a Latvian born and raised during the Soviet occupation of my country this whole Ukraine war makes me glad as fuck Latvia is in NATO.

It may be well and fine for all the western euros to bitch and moan about us but if it means I dont have to worry about my wife or kids dying in a fucking rocket attack im ok with that.

The most bizarre part is how close Ukrainians and Russians are in practically fucking everything.

Having said that, if the Baltics are hung out to dry, like i suspect they would be if Russia was actually serious about taking them, then i would send my wife and kids away from here and take up arms myself.
Latvia does not have any russian bases for russia to care about (as the RU navy base in Crimea which has been there for more than 200 years), so there is no any reason for Putin to "put in" into Latvia. Russia is not like the USA who just gonna bomb it out like with Kosovo, Iraq, Libya and dozens other coutnries which they attacked coz they did not like government there. So the only threat for you from russia are drunk russian turists.
 
Jan 9, 2018
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#76
Latvia does not have any russian bases for russia to care about (as the RU navy base in Crimea which has been there for more than 200 years), so there is no any reason for Putin to "put in" into Latvia. Russia is not like the USA who just gonna bomb it out like with Kosovo, Iraq, Libya and dozens other coutnries which they attacked coz they did not like government there. So the only threat for you from russia are drunk russian turists.
Yeah nothing to worry about

Russians in Latvia
Total population 495,528 (2017) (25.4% of total population)

Thats disregarding the entire history and occupation, the war games they host on our borders during election time among all the other transgressions. How about you leave the concerns over Russian aggression to the people who share a border with them?