Alabama passes near total abortion ban

Arkage

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You are talking like I agree with it, leading with such emotion.

I am not describing how they got it done. And they would have never gotten it done without heavy support from women as well. Stop being obtuse with the typical sexist and racially charged “white men” rhetoric.

:messenger_weary: :messenger_ok: Damn male whitey!
25/26 people who got this passed were men. The four women who are in the legislature voted against it. If you don't think these facts are relevant to how laws get made concerning the reproductive rights of women then you are are being willfully ignorant.

But you're the one framing it as a problem caused by white males being in power. We agree that the bill is a problem. We don't agree that it's because of white males being in power. So again, I ask you: who voted for the white males?
It's also caused by idiotic religious beliefs. "White" doesn't have much to do with it as I'd guess pro-life stances are evenly spread throughout the races via the adoption of Christianity. But male is certainly relevant. These men didn't campaign on criminalizing abortions for rape or incest, so I continue to fail to see your point of asking who voted them in. Voting them in is no indication of support for criminalizing abortions for rape or incest when they didn't campaign on it.
 
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matt404au

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It's also caused by idiotic religious beliefs. "White" doesn't have much to do with it as I'd guess pro-life stances are evenly spread throughout the races via the adoption of Christianity. But male is certainly relevant. These men didn't campaign on criminalizing abortions for rape or incest, so I continue to fail to see your point of asking who voted them in. Voting them in is no indication of support for criminalizing abortions for rape or incest when they didn't campaign on it.
So why did you bring their race into it? Surely you realise by now that you immediately put people offside by casually complaining about "white males" in a derogatory way?

"These men didn't campaign on criminalizing abortions for rape or incest" -- do you know this for fact or are you assuming? Your argument seems to hinge on your assumption that the women of Alabama by and large do not support this -- that they must side with you because they're women. We will only get conclusive evidence of that in their next state election. Until then, you can't say that these men aren't representing the interests of the people who voted for them, and you're projecting your sexist biases onto them and their constituents.
 

LegendOfKage

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I am personally pro-life but I don't get involved because I am a man.
You don't think either having the life of your offspring ended before it could begin, or being placed into a position where you're now financially responsible for two people is being "involved"?

Also:

But it's inside of her body. Her body, her choice.

But it's a different body, with a different blood type, and different DNA.

But it's inside of her body. Her body, her choice.

But it's a different body, with a different blood type, and different DNA.

But it's inside of her body. Her body, her choice.

But it's a different body, with a different blood type, and different DNA.

And then that continued until the end of human existence.
 
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LegendOfKage

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This, to me, seems like a good take.

Helen Pluckrose was one of the three academics behind the Grievance Studies hoax. I happen to agree with a lot of what they say.
Reminds me of something I heard just today. That most of the people who identify as strongly pro-choice are women, but on the other hand most of the people who identify as strongly pro life are also women.

[edit] Oh, and it looks like she also retweeted something to that effect:

 
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Weilthain

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not a fan of killing babies, or jailing people for going to places where it's legal to kill em either.

Kinda sick of the whole "its not a baby/life" argument as well. I guess what I'm saying is I'm not personally going to get in the way of you killing your kid, but don't give me that "it's not a life/human" bullshit. You may be able to fool yourself and other people, but not me.
 

Zaru

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On a similar note, how the fuck is abortion a right when someone else has to perform it for you?
Now THIS might be the dumbest post of the thread.
The right is "not being criminally persecuted for having an abortion", not "you can force someone else to perform an abortion on you". You can do it yourself, but you can find others who are likely more skilled and efficient at it.
You know, like how the 2nd amendment lets you have guns, but hardly anyone can realistically make one without the help of other people. Or how several others reserve the right for a fair trial. All of which require other people.

Since you've argued yourself into a corner, I guess you now have to take up the position that several amendments have to be repealed because they require other people.
 
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Ke0

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I saw someone on Twitter call it Talibama and it seems apt. I have to ask why is this state so low in nearly every metric despite the fact Conservative politics have been the way of the state for decades?

Some of the highest infant and maternal mortality rates in your country (you'd think the pro life crowd would be trying to figure out why…), some of the highest teen pregnancy rates (seems abstinence based education isn't working…), nearly 18% of the population lives below the poverty line, ranks 44th in economy and job opportunity (kind of shocked given the whole small government/get out of businesses way angle)
 

matt404au

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Now THIS might be the dumbest post of the thread.
The right is "not being criminally persecuted for having an abortion", not "you can force someone else to perform an abortion on you". You can do it yourself, but you can find others who are likely more skilled and efficient at it.
You know, like how the 2nd amendment lets you have guns, but hardly anyone can realistically make one without the help of other people. Or how several others reserve the right for a fair trial. All of which require other people.

Since you've argued yourself into a corner, I guess you now have to take up the position that several amendments have to be repealed because they require other people.
Are you seriously suggesting that no one expects abortion to be a right covered by universal healthcare? Have you missed all the Dems like Bernie and AOC arguing that universal healthcare should be a right? What an ignorant post.

The right to bear arms and the right to a fair trial are terrible examples because in those cases, actions are being instigated against you. If you want to pretend that the argument has nothing to do with guaranteeing government-funded access to abortion then you’ve got your fingers in your ears. But given that your post history reads like a garden variety frustrated Ree NPC, I reckon you’re doing it on purpose.
 

GrizzleBoy

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Why would you make a law that could force a girl as young as 13 to carry a rapists baby?

The idea that some sicko could decide he’s going to make a young teen girl (or anyone for that matter) carry his baby by raping them and there’s nothing they can do about it, is kind of horrifying.

Surely there is a bit of nuance that could have been involved here to make sure that you do the best for all the children involved and not just the foetus..
 

Kenpachii

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So what prevents people just going over the boarder to do abortion?
Guess a lot of abortion clinics will be opened just 2 steps over there boarder.

In 2019 these rules are laughable.
 
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Nobody_Important

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The Republicans will raise all kinds of hell over Abortion and will do their best to take away women's reproductive rights, but yet you don't hear a fucking peep from them when kids are thrown in literal cages at the border by the border patrol.


Maybe the red states along the border should try and make some bills about that while they are at it yeah? Since obviously the Republicans care so much about kids?
 
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Zaru

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Are you seriously suggesting that no one expects abortion to be a right covered by universal healthcare? Have you missed all the Dems like Bernie and AOC arguing that universal healthcare should be a right? What an ignorant post.

The right to bear arms and the right to a fair trial are terrible examples because in those cases, actions are being instigated against you. If you want to pretend that the argument has nothing to do with guaranteeing government-funded access to abortion then you’ve got your fingers in your ears. But given that your post history reads like a garden variety frustrated Ree NPC, I reckon you’re doing it on purpose.
We're in a thread about a state literally trying to ban abortion, period, and you're somehow more concerned that the evil commies are gonna give people universal healthcare like in the rest of the civilized world. Oh, the horror! Imagine a world where people didn't have to spend their live savings on hospital visits and women didn't have to raise their rapist's babies. Bet that keeps you up at night.
Meanwhile you're okay with the government using your tax dollars to prop up the gun industry through the military and police, I'm sure.
 
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JimmyJones

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The Republicans will raise all kinds of hell over Abortion and will do their best to take away women's reproductive rights, but yet you don't hear a fucking peep from them when kids are thrown in literal cages at the border by the border patrol.


Maybe the red states along the border should try and make some bills about that while they are at it yeah? Since obviously the Republicans care so much about kids?
Lefties will cry about letting refugees in from shithole countries because "they are human beings too!!", but will abort unborn children en masse because "they aren't real human beings!!".
 

Nobody_Important

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Lefties will cry about letting refugees in from shithole countries because "they are human beings too!!", but will abort unborn children en masse because "they aren't real human beings!!".
Okay so hypothetical children in their mothers womb rank ahead of living and breathing children that are inside of literal cages?


Or do the kids in cages just not matter to you because they are minorities from "shithole countries"? :unsure:
 

matt404au

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We're in a thread about a state literally trying to ban abortion, period, and you're somehow more concerned that the evil commies are gonna give people universal healthcare like in the rest of the civilized world. Oh, the horror! Imagine a world where people didn't have to spend their live savings on hospital visits and women didn't have to raise their rapist's babies. Bet that keeps you up at night.
Meanwhile you're okay with the government using your tax dollars to prop up the gun industry through the military and police, I'm sure.
No. If you read my other posts you know I’m in favour of universal healthcare if the economic conditions support it. What I’m pointing out here is that abortion will be shoehorned in as a “right” if universal healthcare is implemented. All you regressive leftist cunts know how to do is attack strawmen.
 

matt404au

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Okay so hypothetical children in their mothers womb rank ahead of living and breathing children that are inside of literal cages?


Or do the kids in cages just not matter to you because they are minorities from "shithole countries"? :unsure:
The infamous kids in cages photo was taken during the Obama era you fucking amoeba 😂
 

JimmyJones

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Okay so hypothetical children in their mothers womb rank ahead of living and breathing children that are inside of literal cages?


Or do the kids in cages just not matter to you because they are minorities from "shithole countries"? :unsure:
I didn't rank one above the other I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. For the kids in cages, the blame is on the parents for illegally crossing the border.
 

Nobody_Important

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I didn't rank one above the other I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. For the kids in cages, the blame is on the parents for illegally crossing the border.
There are more humane ways of taking care of children being taken across the border. Kids being in cages is the fault of the people who put them in the cages.


With the stroke of a pen the border states could make such treatment illegal, but yet they do not.
 
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DeepEnigma

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There are more humane ways of taking care of children being taken across the border. Kids being in cages is the fault of the people who put them in the cages.


With the stroke of a pen the border states could make such treatment illegal, but yet they do not.
You should write a letter to Obama and his old administration and voice your opinion, better yet tweet him.

You won’t.
 

Musky_Cheese

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I've already promised to not bang Alyssa Milano because of Georgia's abortion laws. New State, new celebrity I guess...

I also promise to not have sex with Kathy Griffin until Alabama changes it's abortion laws.

However more on topic, please stop pretending that you think this is a woman issue. That women should decide and blah blah blah.

You only feel that way because YOU think women agree with you on this. Do you really think that Alabama or any state that is normally socially conservative would be different if you changed up the gender that is seating in elected positions? That the conservative Republican men are anti abortion but the conservative Republican women are pro?

So if you talked to these conservative women, and they were anti abortion... you would change and dance to their song? No. No chance. No chance in hell.
 

Nobody_Important

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You should write a letter to Obama and his old administration and voice your opinion, better yet tweet him.

You won’t.
So Obama's failures automatically absolve Trump's administration from correcting them?

How the fuck does that work? Does that mean the next Democrat can blame Trump for all their failures? Is that how that works now?
 
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DeepEnigma

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I've already promised to not bang Alyssa Milano because of Georgia's abortion laws. New State, new celebrity I guess...

I also promise to not have sex with Kathy Griffin until Alabama changes it's abortion laws.

However more on topic, please stop pretending that you think this is a woman issue. That women should decide and blah blah blah.

You only feel that way because YOU think women agree with you on this. Do you really think that Alabama or any state that is normally socially conservative would be different if you changed up the gender that is seating in elected positions? That the conservative Republican men are anti abortion but the conservative Republican women are pro?

So if you talked to these conservative women, and they were anti abortion... you would change and dance to their song? No. No chance. No chance in hell.
They already are starting to change the narrative from male versus female due to this. They are now trying to do the blame white people, especially white women link in the intersectional chain.
 

DeepEnigma

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So Obama's failures automatically absolve Trump's administration from correcting them?

How the fuck does that work? Does that mean the next Democrat can blame Trump for all their failures? Is that how that works now?
I’m just playing your game captain strawman. I guarantee you you didn’t say shit about those failures because you’re partisan af. The fact you tried to pull the picture card several posts up when those pictures from the Obama administration era.

Keep up the what about this tho shifting, and don’t get salty sack when others play the game back.
 
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Nobody_Important

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I’m just playing your game captain strawman. I guarantee you you didn’t say shit about those failures because you’re partisan af. The fact you tried to pull the picture card several posts up when those pictures card from the Obama administration era.

Keep up the what about this tho shifting, and don’t get salty sack when others play the game back.
"picture card"


What?
 

Bolivar687

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The four women on Alabama's legislature voted against it. All of their proposed amendments were rejected. All of those who voted for it where men. You are full of shit.

Also "lifenews.com" is not science.
You're lying, Arkage. Alabama's legislature is bicameral. The sponsor of the bill in its House Chamber was indeed a female representative, Terri Collins. All women Republicans in the House voted for it. The governor who signed it into law is a woman.

Also, did you clink the link? The information is all from medical textbooks. There is no getting around the reality that a new human life begins at conception.
 

#Phonepunk#

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On the one hand I support a woman’s right to choose. I have even paid for a friend who could not afford an abortion (it was not mine).

However there is no denying that abortion outside of cases of incest rape and health dangers is more or less people putting their own temporary pleasure over the life of a child and potentially a whole line of descendants. That’s fine, I guess, everyone gets to decide what they want to do, but in many cases they maybe be killing a living creature for convenience. This is why there is often a period of depression following an abortion, it’s not just a simple karma free medical procedure.

It is odd to look at this issue following the past couple of years of pop feminism, which seemed to be all about teaching abstinence as the solution to toxic sex. Sexual harassment? Don't do it. Manipulating with the goal of sex? Don't do it. Drugging for sex? Def don't do it. But to save an unborns life? Abstinence is openly laughed at, something for idiots. The responsibility for self control is hazy.

In sex, consent is key, it is of utmost importance, but here we are, at the natural end result of that sex, and consent is entirely absent, the unborn child is unable to give theirs. Is consent something we only grant conscious entities? No, look at how creeps use doped drinks on unsuspecting victims. Tbh i'm not trying to make a point or a stand with any of this, just pointing out a bunch of complex variables going around at the moment. So you can see how the whole thing is a bit confusing and muddled...
 
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bigedole

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Please stop letting @Nobody_Important derail yet ANOTHER thread, people. Holy crap he does this so often.

My thoughts about the actual topic:

Anyone who approaches the conversation about abortion and frames it in one-sided language such as "It's HER body!" or "Life starts at conception!" is not being intellectually honest. The wave of people referring to conservatives desire to control woman's bodies on the front page are just so stupidly ill-conceived. There is only one issue at the heart of the abortion debate: When does life begin? If you think life only begins when a baby exits the birth canal, then you are wrong and science has proven you wrong. If you think life begins the moment a sperm fertilizes an egg, then you are wrong and science has proven you wrong. I don't know how science will solve this question, because there is clearly a gray area between "6 weeks in, neural tube has closed and signals are being sent through the body" and "Baby can hear/feel/dream". I would argue that somewhere between those two events is where life begins. I think the focus on a heartbeat is misguided because the heart is ultimately just another muscle, there is nothing special about it in that regard. We can all live with a nonfunctioning heart, but we can not live with a nonfunctioning brain. Whatever makes up the human soul is in our brains somewhere, and that's what the great debate should be about.

Given our ignorance on the subject, I still tend to believe that 12 weeks/first trimester is the right place to draw the line. All of you far left liberals claiming this is just a discussion about bodily autonomy are either obscenely ignorant or intentionally evil. Do not claim constitutional law is on your side here either, there is NOTHING in the constitution that has anything to do with abortion (I would argue the forefathers would be absolutely aghast to learn what has come to be too), there are only flimsy interpretations of the law and ultimately this really should be an issue left up to the individual states which is how the constitution was designed.
 

Guynamedbilly

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I doubt anyone's read this far. It's for my own catharsis anyway. But given that you can't obligate someone to give up their bodily autonomy to save someone's life in other cases, why is this, pregnancy and childbirth, something that will affect someone for the rest of their life, why is this mandated? Why should a mass of cells without even a brain have the right to require of a living woman what we cannot even demand of a corpse? So many women who have had abortions and later have children express the relief and gratitude that they didn't have a child when they weren't ready. Because of their choice, they were able to save their own lives and bring new life into the world for whom they could properly care.

Now, because of this law, thousands will suffer. The Alabama lawmakers have already handed down their sentences. They had a choice. Now we do not.”
I didn't read it all tbh, I read about half. The difference between abortion and organ donation is immense though. One is proactive, one is reactive.

One requires action to save a life, the other requires inaction to save a life. Abortion is not removing a clump of cells or an organ.

Unless you forcibly stop it, that clump of cells will become a fully formed human. Fingernails, organs, foreskin, or any other clump of cells will not do that.
 

RedVIper

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The Republicans will raise all kinds of hell over Abortion and will do their best to take away women's reproductive rights, but yet you don't hear a fucking peep from them when kids are thrown in literal cages at the border by the border patrol.


Maybe the red states along the border should try and make some bills about that while they are at it yeah? Since obviously the Republicans care so much about kids?
Stop deflecting, this is the typical trying to change subjects move you love to pull out of your ass.

Social welfare and border security are different subjects than abortion, stop being a fucking moron.
 
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