Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez suggests up to 70% tax on the wealthy

May 22, 2018
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In this thread we have people who do not understand what a marginal tax bracket is or that the top tax bracket in the 60s was 91%.

Here is a test for you. If I make 1 million dollars in income a year and the top marginal tax rate is 70%. How much do I pay a year in taxes? (Hint:it’s not 700,000 dollars)
Oh shit. please teach me some more about the basics of life
 
Nov 23, 2010
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Again you people and your conflating wealth with income. I'm not against going after their wealth. I am against stupid levels of tax on income. Income and wealth are two different things.

Interesting that you bring up Bezos tho. His Amazon salary is only $81,840 a year. If he doesn't sell stock that could be all he has to file. That would put him in the same bracket as me. Buffet's salary is $100k. I would Imagine Soro's stated income is also shockingly low. Just because his portfolio gains in value and his net worth goes up doesn't mean he has had income.
I know it may be surprising, but people haven't lobbied so hard to push down income tax rates that will never affect them because they hold stocks.

Also, you've said repeatedly raising rates for high tax brackets is stupid. You're simply way off.

Top researchers have arrived at the same conclusion as Cortez. In fact, she probably derived the tax rate from their work: http://ceg.berkeley.edu/research_117_2123314150.pdf

https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.25.4.165

So, I'm not sure why you feel so strong that higher effective rates for George Soros is going to cause an economic catastrophe. Giving Jeff Bezos and the Washington Post welfare year after year is a major waste of government's time. The little people that work for him and can't take bathroom breaks without being harassed are the real drivers of the US economy.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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I know it may be surprising, but people haven't lobbied so hard to push down income tax rates that will never affect them because they hold stocks.

Also, you've said repeatedly raising rates for high tax brackets is stupid. You're simply way off.

Top researchers have arrived at the same conclusion as Cortez. In fact, she probably derived the tax rate from their work: http://ceg.berkeley.edu/research_117_2123314150.pdf

https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.25.4.165

So, I'm not sure why you feel so strong that higher effective rates for George Soros is going to cause an economic catastrophe. Giving Jeff Bezos and the Washington Post welfare year after year is a major waste of government's time. The little people that work for him and can't take bathroom breaks without being harassed are the real drivers of the US economy.
You did not read a thing I wrote did you?
 

matt404au

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And where would the rich Americans run to? The amazing first world tax havens in europe?

All my American friends still have to file taxes while living abroad, so what now?

I do enjoy seeing people not know how progressive tax works.

Progressive tax brackets doesn’t unfairly tax the rich. Everybody pays exactly the same tax.
You know company tax and personal tax are separate things, right?
 

ArchaeEnkidu

Vincit qui se vincit
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5 billion is a hair over 10% or the federal highway budget of 45 billion. States add in another ~170 billion. Whoopty shit, a few extra miles of road gets paved and maybe another bridge or two will be repaired. That’s a drop in the bucket compared to what it is estimated to bring all of our highways and bridges up to snuff as that would be at least 4 or 5 Trillion.

Ok, now what, you took all of these high income prople’s Income for one year and the next year they adjust how (or where) they accumulate wealth so they don’t get taxed so hard. They will just keep on getting richer.

Hit their wealth with a tax. Trump in that video was surprisingly correct, at least according to Picketty’s conclusions in Capital in the Twenty First Century.

Also don’t forget though the other thing I said. The government isn’t constrained by tax revenues on what it can spend. They make the money, and they can just turn the printing presses on if they want to spend it. There is nothing stopping them from spending that 5 trillion on upgrading our bridges, they just lack the political will to do it.
I don't see the issue. That is still multiple new roads and bridges repaired. Add that over multiple years and it is still better than what we currently have.
 
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matt404au

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That's always going to be a thing if there's other places with lower taxes. It's not like there's a specific point at which all rich people are going to leave the country so outright saying this will happen and will *certainly* be a net loss seems disingenuous unless you've got anything specific to back it up. Just giving in to rich people because you're too scared that they and their money (which they barely get taxed on anyway) seems silly.



Also, the right's hard-on for AOC is pretty funny. Even if she was saying supposedly stupid things all the time so do a fuckton o government officials but nobody seems to give a shit or question their qualifications. Just a short list of retarded shit:

“If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."

Todd Akin


"Every time you have that soil or rock or whatever it is that is deposited into the seas, that forces the sea levels to rise, because now you have less space in those oceans, because the bottom is moving up,"

Mo Brooks


"How do you sustain a business model in which users don't pay for your service?"

Orrin Hatch


"If I'm emailing within WhatsApp ... does that inform your advertisers?"

Brian Schatz


“Nobody dies because they don’t have access to health care”

Raul Labrador




James Inhofe


“My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize,"

Hank Johnson


"https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump"

Donald Trump
I agree that all of those quotes are retarded, but do they prevent us from criticising AOC’s idiocy in a thread about her idiocy?
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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I don't see the issue. That is still multiple new roads and bridges repaired. Add that over multiple years and it is still better than what we currently have.
I'm not against taxing the fuck out of the ultra wealthy, but taking it out of their income is silly because they don't have income like us plebs. After a certain point of wealth, you should be paying a percentage of your total assets as taxes, not your piddly income that you can fudge to look small. No loopholes, no sheltering or offshoring it. Flat cut of what they have, annually. Anything to get their horde liquid and back into the economy.
 

matt404au

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Did I misread and she’s talking about company tax? Over here income tax is personal, I’m talking about personal income tax, I thought that was what she was talking about.
She is, but a lot of the ultra wealthy don’t have high incomes as @Cybrwzrd pointed out. Most have trusts, companies, shares, and other things that wouldn’t be touched by income tax. If they come for those things, they will find ways to shift the wealth outside of the US.
 
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I actually want to see this. And then her face realizing that all these wealthy people will leave the country and take their companies with them. The look on her face and everyone who supports this would be really something^^
Not going to happen.

Some really wealthy people have been saying they should pay more tax already so they won't leave.

Others have far too much business in the US to want to spend the money and energy on relocating themselves, their families and their businesses.

Some might be able to move but many other first world countries also have high taxes for wealthy people and the places that don't are already pretty full.

I am sure a few might leave but I doubt tax is the reason for that.
 

catfish

I have a foreskin yet I do not have AIDS
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She is, but a lot of the ultra wealthy don’t have high incomes as @Cybrwzrd pointed out. Most have trusts, companies, shares, and other things that wouldn’t be touched by income tax. If they come for those things, they will find ways to shift the wealth outside of the US.
You don’t know this, rich people that use tax havens already are aware of and do this.

I find the idea that it nets America less money pretty laughable, especially since if America actually did it, very smart people would start chasing down these common loopholes. A bunch of criminal charges, a few amnesty’s and this wouldn’t be a net loss for the country
 
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The most painful thing about socialists is that they'll never get to experience the true extent of their idiocy.

I'm not against taxing the fuck out of the ultra wealthy, but taking it out of their income is silly because they don't have income like us plebs. After a certain point of wealth, you should be paying a percentage of your total assets as taxes, not your piddly income that you can fudge to look small. No loopholes, no sheltering or offshoring it. Flat cut of what they have, annually. Anything to get their horde liquid and back into the economy.
How does that work? If somebody has a business worth a million dollars and the wealth tax is 10% would they have to pay a hundred thousand per year? This is not taxation it's robbery. And it's particularly stupid robbery because it'd bankrupt the business.

So, I'm not sure why you feel so strong that higher effective rates for George Soros is going to cause an economic catastrophe. Giving Jeff Bezos and the Washington Post welfare year after year is a major waste of government's time. The little people that work for him and can't take bathroom breaks without being harassed are the real drivers of the US economy.
Yeah, they built that! lol. Plenty of people can do what bezos' employees do, yet only bezos is a billionaire. If low-skilled workers are the engines of prosperity then the third world would be the richest.
 
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Aug 11, 2018
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I agree that all of those quotes are retarded, but do they prevent us from criticising AOC’s idiocy in a thread about her idiocy?
No? But it'd be neat if people at least acknowledged that she gets treated way harsher than a ton of other politicians who regularly make statements that should make people question their qualifications.
 
Likes: Miku Miku
Oct 26, 2018
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Taxing someone's assets is retarded. Things like real estate and stock values fluctuate.

If someone holding millions of dollars worth of investments gets taxed mid-stream, how is he going to pay it off when he might be cash poor (but asset rich)? And what? Every year that pool of assets get re-taxed and re-taxed? What's the point of having a property or retirement funds if they get dinged every year?

And what if the assets bomb due to a stock market tank? Is the government going to give back some of taxes?

How can you tax someone on something that has fluctuating values?

Here's an idea..... (and I'm not even a rich dude)..... how about all the scrubs out there get their life together, and the government find some savings?

I'm single. Paid for all my school, car, and homes 100% myself. No stupidity like getting drunk or drugged up. Not hard to lead a straight path. Took effort to do well in school, get a decent job and save money so I can multiply it later....... (save money for stocks and buying properties later on).

Instead of begging for more apple juice, how about grow your own apples for once?
 
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The most painful thing about socialists is that they'll never get to experience the true extent of their idiocy.
And most people who have very socialist views fall into two camps.

1. Broke. And want everyone else and government to bend over and spread their asshole while handing over more money.

2. Super uber rich folks. Guys like Warren Buffet and Bill Gates don't give a shit. They have billions and are old. Gates is in his 50s I think. And Buffet is probably 80. Not hard to be charitable when you get to that level. But I bet you neither one of them had this Robin Hood view when they were 28 and trying to build up their career and were a fraction as rich as now.
 
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Honestly at this point I take the continuous failed attacks on her to be a sign of just how scared the Right is of her and the possibility of more people like her rising to positions of power. None of their attempts at smearing her work. She shrugs them off and simultaneously embarrasses them in return for their trouble. She doesn't just take the criticism quietly like other Dems. She is a strong female politician that fights back and people love her for it. And it terrifies them.


And its very entertaining to watch I must say.
Of all the Congress men and women put into office this year she gets it the most from the Right , I wonder why .. if we had a thread for every single word a Congress person said it would get stupid. Their scared .. very scared of her and it puts a smile on my face when I see grown men cry over her doing basic ass shit.
 
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May 22, 2018
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Of all the Congress men and women put into office this year she gets it the most from the Right , I wonder why .. if we had a thread for every single word a Congress person said it would get stupid. Their scared .. very scared of her and it puts a smile on my face when I see grown men cry over her doing basic ass shit.
Exactly. The whole thing about her dancing this past week is just another example and is the funniest thing I have ever seen. Then on top of that her response was easily one of the best things I have seen from anyone on the left when it comes to the Rights ridiculous attempts at smearing people.

 
Jun 13, 2018
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Honestly at this point I take the continuous failed attacks on him to be a sign of just how scared the Left is of him and the possibility of more people like him rising to positions of power. None of their attempts at smearing him work. He shrugs them off and simultaneously embarrasses them in return for their trouble. He doesn't just take the criticism quietly like other Republicans. He is a strong politician that fights back and people love him for it. And it terrifies them.


And its very entertaining to watch I must say.
I always knew there was something secret hidden there but I didn't know you had it in you to say such a bold statement about your President, @Nobody_Important :messenger_blowing_kiss:
 

njr

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Exactly. The whole thing about her dancing this past week is just another example and is the funniest thing I have ever seen. Then on top of that her response was easily one of the best things I have seen from anyone on the left when it comes to the Rights ridiculous attempts at smearing people.

Is this even true? I've been looking for sources of the smear, but haven't found anything except for some user on Twitter complaining about it, not some collective opinion from the right.
 
May 22, 2018
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Is this even true? I've been looking for sources of the smear, but haven't found anything except for some user on Twitter complaining about it, not some collective opinion from the right.
It wasn't just Twitter. It went viral across social media. Its just like when people tried and failed to attack her for what clothes she was wearing. People keeping trying to take something about her and attempt to twist it and then fail miserably. She then proceeds to openly mock them for their backfire.


I only wish more politicians from the left had the backbone to do what she does.
 
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You know they don't physically have to move, don't you?
You want to explain to me how you think a US citizen, paying US income tax, is going to not pay that tax without physically leaving the US and giving up US citizenship?

The us government requires it citizens to file and pay taxes even on non US earnings, and to pay the difference between local tax and us tax rates.

If that was possible people would doing it now, you wouldn’t need to consider a hypothetical 70% tax rate.
 
Jul 12, 2004
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I'm single. Paid for all my school, car, and homes 100% myself. No stupidity like getting drunk or drugged up. Not hard to lead a straight path. Took effort to do well in school, get a decent job and save money so I can multiply it later....... (save money for stocks and buying properties later on).

Instead of begging for more apple juice, how about grow your own apples for once?
Really? I’m sorry I did t have the 100k handy to pay for 4 years of school myself, so I took out a couple of low interest govment backed loans and got some pell grants. Where did you work in high school to save up for college without help from anybody?

My dad took advantage of the GI bill to get a college education and buy a house after WW2. He must have been one of those moochers you are talking about.

It’s amazing that you didn’t take the first time home buyers credit on your taxes when you bought your first home. Most people would say that’s stupid, but it takes a lot of guts to stand up against that gov handout. Bravo.
 
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ArchaeEnkidu

Vincit qui se vincit
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I'm not against taxing the fuck out of the ultra wealthy, but taking it out of their income is silly because they don't have income like us plebs. After a certain point of wealth, you should be paying a percentage of your total assets as taxes, not your piddly income that you can fudge to look small. No loopholes, no sheltering or offshoring it. Flat cut of what they have, annually. Anything to get their horde liquid and back into the economy.
That makes much more sense to me. Danke. Agreed wholeheartedly.
 
Oct 24, 2017
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It wasn't just Twitter. It went viral across social media. Its just like when people tried and failed to attack her for what clothes she was wearing. People keeping trying to take something about her and attempt to twist it and then fail miserably. She then proceeds to openly mock them for their backfire.


I only wish more politicians from the left had the backbone to do what she does.
viral through news media? Sorry but news media often writes articles based on a few outraged people on twitter an facebook. Sorry I do not trust news media anymore.

Besides no one is calling her out for this dance but her stupid statements.
 
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Exactly. The whole thing about her dancing this past week is just another example and is the funniest thing I have ever seen. Then on top of that her response was easily one of the best things I have seen from anyone on the left when it comes to the Rights ridiculous attempts at smearing people.

The dancing “outrage” was fucking stupid. I’m glad it was just from a couple weirdos on twitter and not mainstream news because that backfired huge.

Innocent Fun Dancing Bad!
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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How does that work? If somebody has a business worth a million dollars and the wealth tax is 10% would they have to pay a hundred thousand per year? This is not taxation it's robbery. And it's particularly stupid robbery because it'd bankrupt the business
Only if those assets were personal. I certainly would hope not, they would be an idiot. Now if it was a publicly traded corporation worth billions and they held a controlling majority of shares, then they would be liable for a tax based on the value of their holdings.

Also it wouldn't be 10%, at least not on the middle class like someone who is worth a paltry million dollars. Piketty suggested 1% at 1.3 million in wealth per year, and .5% at $260k, and 2% at 6.5 million. It should continue to scale higher imho, but his plan capped out there if I remember correctly.
 
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You did not read a thing I wrote did you?
I did.

Top CEOs make millions of $s annually in earned income on average. Not $1. Not minimum wage. Not $80-100k. People with a lot money like George Soros get paid more. I know you may want to believe income tax rates have fallen to the benefit of no one but it's not true.
Everyone who makes big money isn't interested in tying their money to the company's success in order to game the system. We all have dynamic preferences on how we handle our business.

And I'm still struggling to figure out how what Cortez said is stupid and so silly. Some of the top American economists in your country concluded the optimal income tax rate can range from 70-84%...

The clueless socialist probably low balled it....
 
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This just confirms she has no clue about anything.
She’s been wrong so many times I can’t take anything seriously from her. I still can’t believe she got elected , every time she opens her mouth she sounds dumb and uneducated.
Should the wealthy pay higher taxes?
Maybe but 70% is insane like she is.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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I did.

Top CEOs make millions of $s annually in earned income on average. Not $1. Not minimum wage. Not $80-100k. People with a lot money like George Soros get paid more. I know you may want to believe income tax rates have fallen to the benefit of no one but it's not true.
Everyone who makes big money isn't interested in tying their money to the company's success in order to game the system. We all have dynamic preferences on how we handle our business.

And I'm still struggling to figure out how what Cortez said is stupid and so silly. Some of the top American economists in your country concluded the optimal income tax rate can range from 70-84%...

The clueless socialist probably low balled it....
No, you didn't. You are ignoring what I said about wealth taxes and completely missing the fact that the ultra wealthy aren't wealthy because they have high incomes. They have lots of capital gains though. I can't find Soro's reported annual income, since he doesn't have to report it, but most of his earnings come from his capital gains in his hedge funds, and if he isn't selling his shares off he isn't taking income from those gains. Don't forget, Soros is a fucking weasel who has been playing a shell game with his wealth for years as a means of avoiding even the smallest tax bill.

So unless you are redefining the meaning of income, I don't see how nailing people like Soros with a 70% income tax is going to do squat. I will say this again, there are only about 2000 households in the US with reported AGI that is greater than $10,000,000.
 
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I don't care where (just far)
This just confirms she has no clue about anything.
She’s been wrong so many times I can’t take anything seriously from her. I still can’t believe she got elected , every time she opens her mouth she sounds dumb and uneducated.
Should the wealthy pay higher taxes?
Maybe but 70% is insane like she is.
I agree with your final line about the policy but the rest of the post seems a little hyperbolic and rabid, to me at least.
 
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Really? I’m sorry I did t have the 100k handy to pay for 4 years of school myself, so I took out a couple of low interest govment backed loans and got some pell grants. Where did you work in high school to save up for college without help from anybody?

My dad took advantage of the GI bill to get a college education and buy a house after WW2. He must have been one of those moochers you are talking about.

It’s amazing that you didn’t take the first time home buyers credit on your taxes when you bought your first home. Most people would say that’s stupid, but it takes a lot of guts to stand up against that gov handout. Bravo.
I didn't have the money as well. It's called student loans paid back on the 10 year default plan. It was high enough that the loans had to be from two parts.... a provincial loan and a federal loan executed through the bank I used. My student loan was much less as this was in the 90s and I commuted to university downtown. Took the bus and subway 75-90 minutes each way every day. Didn't have a car. I applied only to local universities instead of trying to get accepted to one in another city. If I did go away for 4 year school my loan would probably be double or more. I'm sure if I applied to Queen's (Kingston Ontario), I would have got accepted, but why? Stay local (Toronto area) and cut the costs in half.

But then it bumped back up again as I went to grad school in the early 2000s where I did live on campus, so the loans increased again.

All I did was get a job and pay it off. Get a good job and paying it off takes time. Go overboard on loans and you'll be hurting. Never overextend yourself.

I don't know anything about first time home owner credits. I'm in Canada. There was none of that at the time.... although now there might be. There was also a first time home owner renovations credit that came and went during the 2000s. I missed that too as I think that was only a short term offer by the government.

The first car I bought was a Honda Civic.
 
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It wasn't just Twitter. It went viral across social media. Its just like when people tried and failed to attack her for what clothes she was wearing. People keeping trying to take something about her and attempt to twist it and then fail miserably. She then proceeds to openly mock them for their backfire.


I only wish more politicians from the left had the backbone to do what she does.
Nobody really cared about any of this shit. A few trolls on social media does not mean a coordinated attack by the right wing. There were more response articles condemning attacks then there were actual attacks. Fabricated bullshit you lapped right up. Congrats.
 
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I agree with your final line about the policy but the rest of the post seems a little hyperbolic and rabid, to me at least.
Sometimes the truth hurts!
She just seems very inexperienced when it comes to the way the world actually works and many times when she talks it shows, to me at least.
I just don’t see what people see in her besides a pretty face.
 
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I'm not a fan for ultra(!) high taxes for people earning a lot of money. Love it or hate it, but it collides with the principle of merit our lives are built on.
 
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Well to be fair the argument of merit often and frequently collides with reality anyways.
Very short answer because it's offtopic: what you said is absolutely not true for modern societies. For most people nowadays it only matter where they come from and not where they are going to. It's more easy and convenient, but it will get you nowhere.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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I'm not a fan for ultra(!) high taxes for people earning a lot of money. Love it or hate it, but it collides with the principle of merit our lives are built on.
No, ultra high taxes are not necessary if the system is working correctly, but utilizing tax loopholes for decades for massive capital gains while offsetting any tax burden before having to pay up, then using more loopholes to get out of paying the taxes when due is a huge problem. And the system currently allows that.