• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

Opinion (*) Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek contrasts the next Gen consoles in interview (Up: Tweets/Article removed)

BlueXImpulse

Member
Jul 10, 2020
2,506
14,790
540
Whether PS5 ends up performing very closely to the XSX or not, this guy's logic is completely sound. Though it needs to translate into actual performance and we'll have to wait 2 or 3 months to find out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Md Ray

pasterpl

Member
Feb 8, 2020
1,602
2,894
425
After not seeing a single game on xsx 2 months before launch yet, I think he was spot on with xsx dev kits not being as easy as ps5.

Excluding enhanced games and mine craft path traced, there were some games shown running on xbsex, there was even thread for one In here last week
 
Last edited:

Agnostic2020

Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,672
19,823
805
Excluding enhanced games and mine craft path traced, there were some games shown running on xbsex, there was even thread for one In here last week
So far one game other than BC games and Minecraft demo . And I posted the thread. Its an indie title which is identical to ps4 version . So its not using any hardware power of xsx .
 

On Demand

Member
Dec 12, 2013
5,877
3,285
695
After not seeing a single game on xsx 2 months before launch , I think he was spot on with xsx dev kits not being as easy as ps5.

Yep. This also calls into question Dusk Golems claims about PS5 and RE8. Nothing he said made any sense.

PS5 already already has 4K games
Easy to develop
More developers have PS5 dev kits than SX and for a longer time. Final dev kits too.

Either the information was outdated, developers were not using a complete version of the dev kit (which would match the info being from a long time ago and not new) or he was just trolling for Xbox. Which he kind of admitted actually.
 
Last edited:

Matsuchezz

Member
Feb 27, 2020
470
604
300
Yep. This also calls into question Dusk Golems claims about PS5 and RE8. Nothing he said made any sense.

PS5 already already has 4K games
Easy to develop
More developers have PS5 dev kits than SX and for a longer time. Final dev kits too.

Either the information was outdated, developers were not using a complete version of the dev kit (which would match the info being from a long time ago and not new) or he was just trolling for Xbox. Which he kind of admitted actually.

if i am not mistaken duskgolem claims were all made up by him because he thought xsx was receiving a lot of shit and he did it to even the playfield. That is why he was removed as a mod in the era forum.

in reality i just want To know the price and where i can buy the damned thing PS5. But i am also waiting on the teardown and a few surprises from sony.
 

DarthFeanor

Banned
May 7, 2020
561
604
270
5 months and we still have to rely on paper specs and of the record interviews.

The only "real" next gen title we have is Rachet and Clank 10 min gameplay. A game that we don't even know if it's coming out yearly next year.

For the first time I have to admit that Nvidia really has blown anything out of the park.
 

Agnostic2020

Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,672
19,823
805
5 months and we still have to rely on paper specs and of the record interviews.

The only "real" next gen title we have is Rachet and Clank 10 min gameplay. A game that we don't even know if it's coming out yearly next year.

For the first time I have to admit that Nvidia really has blown anything out of the park.
Ratchet is releasing by February 2020.
Nvidia is launching their gpus in 3 weeks. So we have to wait and see how sony and Ms do 3 weeks before launch
 

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
17,221
8,985
1,310
I keep telling you people that it's not completely weaker than Xbox SX GPU because the higher clock , PS5 will have the straight forward rendering advantage while Xbox SX will have the compute advantage. most games will not reach the limits of compute on these consoles.









Told you fools
 

ABnormal

Member
Mar 20, 2020
148
275
240
There were others that gave good explanations of the differences between architectures. Like the one who used the packages delivery service example.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SoraNoKuni

Agnostic2020

Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,672
19,823
805
Reading it again , he told us about xbox api issues in March 2020. He also says ram is issue on xsx due to them trying to fit everything in the 10gb so they don't have to use the slower ram pool.

The man deserves an apology from many in this thread accusing him .
 
Last edited:

sinnergy

Member
Jun 16, 2007
4,741
2,488
1,285
Reading it again , he told us about xbox api issues in March 2020. He also says ram is issue on xsx due to them trying to fit everything in the 10gb so they don't have to use the slower ram pool.

The man deserves an apology from many in this thread accusing him .

building a console is all about compromises ... PS5 has them ..

mand them finding workarounds to not use the slower pool is not that weird .

Engineering is about problem solving . That’s why they use SFS /VRS and meshshaders ..

the slow pool is enough for CPU and other tasks .

So wanting to minimize use for tasks that need the fast pool is preferable. And seeing as MS is about software , it’s not that weird for them to tackle it this way ..
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jigga117

Stiflers Mom

Banned
Apr 27, 2012
8,638
13,203
1,150
I still think what we see at the moment is really the usual early gen shenanigans where hardware feels quite similar.

I remember when the PS3 whopped the 360ies ass with its exclusives at the end of that gen with its slight advantage due to the Cell BE.
Devs will get better and better getting the most out of the hardware.
Not now, but I think in 2 to 3 years we will start to see differences between PS5 and Series X.

I am not ready yet to eat that crow, you see... : D
 

Bonfires Down

Member
Jul 31, 2007
2,705
3,541
1,430
Very interesting. So according to the guy the PS5 has quite a few advantages that make things easier for devs and improve performance.
  • Higher clocks but fewer CUs speed up all aspects of the hardware and are easier to work with.
  • API customized for the PS5 while MS uses a generalized DirectX.
  • Unified RAM pool.
  • Allows devs to shift power between CPU and GPU at will.
He clearly prefers the PS5 by quite a bit.
 

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
23,437
27,223
1,845
I still think what we see at the moment is really the usual early gen shenanigans where hardware feels quite similar.

I remember when the PS3 whopped the 360ies ass with its exclusives at the end of that gen with its slight advantage due to the Cell BE.
Devs will get better and better getting the most out of the hardware.
Not now, but I think in 2 to 3 years we will start to see differences between PS5 and Series X.

I am not ready yet to eat that crow, you see... : D

I see you like your crow dry aged.

Very sophisticated.
 

Agnostic2020

Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,672
19,823
805
Very interesting. So according to the guy the PS5 has quite a few advantages that make things easier for devs and improve performance.
  • Higher clocks but fewer CUs speed up all aspects of the hardware and are easier to work with.
  • API customized for the PS5 while MS uses a generalized DirectX.
  • Unified RAM pool.
  • Allows devs to shift power between CPU and GPU at will.
He clearly prefers the PS5 by quite a bit.
Yea and remember in March 2020 no one was even hinting xsx has bad api which we know now. He said it and he got called liar at that time for it .
 

Greggy

Member
Nov 7, 2020
153
235
230
Yea and remember in March 2020 no one was even hinting xsx has bad api which we know now. He said it and he got called liar at that time for it .
Not sure why he is declared to have been spot on. I see he said that the PS5 would load games in “1 second” and we now know that the loading times are pretty much a wash across both consoles.
As for less CUs and higher clocks is better, that’s the opposite of what we see in the PC space, so again I’ll probably reserve judgment on that.
 

BlueXImpulse

Member
Jul 10, 2020
2,506
14,790
540
Not sure why he is declared to have been spot on. I see he said that the PS5 would load games in “1 second” and we now know that the loading times are pretty much a wash across both consoles.
As for less CUs and higher clocks is better, that’s the opposite of what we see in the PC space, so again I’ll probably reserve judgment on that.

When we've seen loading times specifically optimized for PS first party, they have been close to a second from save to gameplay. Miles Morales is one such example.

The problem is, these consoles are not PCs, and they do not have the exact same architecture and are customized in unique ways.
 
Last edited:

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
1,996
6,638
585
India
As for less CUs and higher clocks is better, that’s the opposite of what we see in the PC space, so again I’ll probably reserve judgment on that.
Not really. Let's take GTX 970 and 980 for e.g.

GTX 970 has fewer CUDA cores than GTX 980, yet if you increase a 970's frequency to as high as it can go (or above 980's freq.) you get perf that's on par GTX 980 or sometimes higher or sometimes close to it, depending on the workload.
 

Greggy

Member
Nov 7, 2020
153
235
230
Not really. Let's take GTX 970 and 980 for e.g.

GTX 970 has fewer CUDA cores than GTX 980, yet if you increase a 970's frequency to as high as it can go (or above 980's freq.) you get perf that's on par GTX 980 or sometimes higher or sometimes close to it, depending on the workload.

I suspect there's a reason why every new PC graphic card improves on the number of cores of its predecessor. It would be simpler for manufacturers to overclock the latest product and charge the customer for it.
 

Zheph

Member
Sep 1, 2020
531
2,342
370
Not sure why he is declared to have been spot on. I see he said that the PS5 would load games in “1 second” and we now know that the loading times are pretty much a wash across both consoles.
For BC games or cross without much opti, now lets check Spiderman or Demon's Souls on PS5.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jroc74

Greggy

Member
Nov 7, 2020
153
235
230
For BC games or cross without much opti, now lets check Spiderman or Demon's Souls on PS5.
3rd party games don't have any loading optimisation on XSX/S either. Look, I think it's way too early to declare who has been wrong or right about performance predictions.
Let's enjoy all the games and wait for the tools and skills to grow into their maturity. There is great stuff across the board and I personallybought consoles.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Nov 25, 2015
13,728
22,425
1,200
3rd party games don't have any loading optimisation on XSX/S either. Look, I think it's way too early to declare who has been wrong or right about performance predictions.
Let's enjoy all the games and wait for the tools and skills to grow into their maturity. There is great stuff across the board and I personallybought consoles.

I wouldn’t bank on it.
Direct X 12 Ultimate just released this year.
Direct X 13 is going to be years away, there aren’t even any hints of it being on the horizon.

People should just be happy that both are great machines.
 

Thirty7ven

Member
Apr 13, 2020
3,112
12,720
550
So PS5 proven to be the superior hardware?

What does that mean exactly?

Is it the superior piece of console engineering? Yes, considering consoles are all about cutting costs while preserving performance in games. Just look at the example of cooling, MS took no chances with R&D and went straight for a vapor chamber, while Sony took those chances and developed a way to achieve the same performance of a vapor chamber through the use of liquid metal. Same performance at lower cost, sounds great doesn't it?

They have a smaller APU, yet they are delivering comparable performance. And when it comes to defining upgrades for devs, the CPU and the I/O, they excelled. The I/O is revolutionary (in this moment in time), and it even comes with the added bonus of freeing precious CPU cycles compared to its main competitor.

The writing was on the wall, from devs to the one or two only consistent insiders. Word is devs practically evangelize development on PS5 (Richard from DF), and contrary to forum dwellers beliefs.... no that doesn't just mean that "tools" are better.

Does any of this means the PS5 gpu is more performant than XSX? In some cases yes. It does do certain things better. But XSX GPU has more compute power and that won't go away.

More importantly for gamers though, Sony first party will continue to excel when compared to the rest of the industry, we get a console whose price starts at 399$ and is full blown next gen, and on top of that maybe because Sony could shave previous $ of the cost on the APU, we get a Dual Sense controller that is a PS5 standard.
 
Last edited:

xHunter

Member
May 13, 2013
282
1,185
605
How could actual game engineer's know about the performance of both consoles?
When you have experts like Dealer and Timdog on YouTube. Or the resident gaf experts like Riky, MrFunSocks and Dynamite etc. Clearly a Crytek engineer knows Jack and shit.
Dont you know? He posted 2 pictures of PS4 games in twitter, he is obviously a sony shill and the biggest fanboy. /s

Funny thing is someone actually wrote that.
 

Gediminas

Member
Mar 6, 2018
1,163
3,892
515
3rd party games don't have any loading optimisation on XSX/S either.
those loading times already could hit max what they can do with it on xbox.

yet, not the same with PS5 and exclusive games on PS5 or first party cross gen games which were optimize for PS5 gives you more than enough evidence to say it that there is plenty of power left.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlueXImpulse

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
1,996
6,638
585
India
I suspect there's a reason why every new PC graphic card improves on the number of cores of its predecessor.
Yes, there are benefits to higher CUs/shaders cores as well. For Sony, going with a lower CU and higher frequency was most beneficial in a number of ways.
It would be simpler for manufacturers to overclock the latest product and charge the customer for it.
That's what they do with refreshes.
 
Last edited: