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Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS

GhaleonEB

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So who should I sue for my $18 ? I don't remember the last time I shook my head so much in the theater​. What a dumb fucking movie. Way to take a giant steaming shit on the few things that were good about Prometheus.

Even if you set aside killing Shaw between movies - not that we should set that shit aside - I'm still flabergasted they dismissed the entire Engineer plotline between movies. Even though it's set there, this film had zero curiosity about them.

I watched an interview with Scott before this came out where he said he'd thought about what people didn't like about Prometheus and fixed it here. Specifically, it's got the original alien in it, while Prometheus didn't. It's pretty clear he didn't understand what people did and didn't like about Prometheus. I think this movie was a giant turd, but boy does Scott know how to make a turd in a pretty fascinating shape.
 
Feb 10, 2009
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Presumably they were relying on scans alone for the original planet they were going to colonize, though, right?
They could have sent some sort of exploratory ship to the first planet before going full colonisation. Maybe not considering how dumb people seem to be in this universe.
 

ResidentDante

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I personally don't have so many issues with Prometheus, and the more I let my Alien: Covenant viewing sink in, I think Covenant is the worse movie.

So many stupid crew decisions, so many typical alien scenes clearly meant for an audience who has never seen an Alien movie before, too much stuff trying to over-explain itself instead of leaving some mysteries to the mind of the viewer and too much Fassbender.

Fucking five minutes of flute playing?! It's way too much screentime of the robots rather than the Aliens.
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
Nov 1, 2009
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As for the Prologue, I wonder what the conversation was like between Fox/Scott and Noomi Rapace?

"Your character is going to be killed before the film even starts. But we'd like you to come back and shoot some scenes that won't even be in the theatrical version."

"Everyone hated your character so you aren't going to be in the movie. But we'll pay you to do a day's shooting for some Youtube promo."

"OK..."

"Oh, also we need to make a plastic model of your disemboweled corpse. Just so the audience knows you can never come back."
 
For those curious, apparently in the novel Walter comes out of the ship first and makes sure that the coast is clear, that there are not any weird pathogens or anything.

Thing is, much like the eggs, the black goo/spores don't come alive until there's a lifeform near them so they don't react to Walter, hence why the infection takes people by surprise.

Still not canon and stupid when you can just wear a suit but maybe it'll ease some minds knowing these ideas were in the script at some point.

They were both awful. Daniels was just Ripley-lite and Shaw was simply a moron.

True, I don't think the series benefits by having Ripley clones as main characteres at all. Just let it go, if you want to have a female lead make her different, more rogue-ish or different in some other way.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Jun 10, 2012
13,418
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"Everyone hated your character so you aren't going to be in the movie. But we'll pay you to do a day's shooting for some Youtube promo."

"OK..."

"Oh, also we need to make a plastic model of your disemboweled corpse. Just so the audience knows you can never come back."

Rapace:

 

Fancy Clown

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Dec 3, 2013
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Lets just land on this new planet we dont know about, with our only land ship ! yay!

But what I'm saying is that it seems like they probably know just as much about the new planet once they run some scans and scope it out. They check it out because based on the scans it seems even more hospitable (and Oram wants to help whoever left the beacon, and nobody wants to get back in the chryo pods that just burnt the old captain to death). I think the movie, while obviously not being totally realistic with its space faring colonizing stuff, at least gave pretty rational movie logic for their dilemma to sound reasonable.
 

Jinroh

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Jun 24, 2012
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Not totally realistic? Even if the atmosphere was breathable in a real case scenario you wouldn't remove your helmet for weeks until you're 100% sure nothing can happen! Mosquitoes on earth itself carry deadly viruses, imagine a whole new planet where the whole ecosystem is foreign! When I went to the Philippines I thought I'd die after drinking local water, and it was on the same planet.

The script is just terribly bad. And what saddens me is that these past few years from all the movies I saw at the theater the only ones that really made me shake my head (outside of this piece of garbage "Lucy") were both Prometheus and Alien Covenant. Writing scripts is a full time job. How can they fuck it up so much and put so many nonsensical things in them and how in the hell can they not write interesting characters? And how is it possible that someone like Ridley doesn't realize the whole thing stinks?

I mean the movie starts with an helmet that detects signals better than a futuristic ship and said ship whose systems are disabled because 1/4th of its solar panel is not properly connected. The whole beginning looks nice but is already totally stupid.

But one of the worst things outside of all the bullshit these movies contain is that Ridley retcons the aesthetic of the original movies. No more retro futurism, the engineer size retconned (still fine in Alien: Engineers), etc. A game like Alien Isolation is much more faithful to the original alien movie than anything Ridley has produced these last few years. The more I think about these news movies the more I wish I could just erase them from my memory.
 

Warm Machine

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Jun 9, 2004
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For all we know they could have collected air samples, but the air was showing as clean because there was no "pollen" around. That shit only got kicked up when they touched the alien fungus (of course they should have been wearing helmets, and waited a day or two for the storms to pass before touching down).

A quick scene of "we blah blah scanned the planet. No signs of life, but habitable for humans" would have done the trick.

That scene is in the movie. They are looking at a holographic display of the planet and say it is better than the planet they were originally going to.
 

Withnail

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Dec 16, 2009
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306
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Not totally realistic? Even if the atmosphere was breathable in a real case scenario you wouldn't remove your helmet for weeks until you're 100% sure nothing can happen! Mosquitoes on earth itself carry deadly viruses, imagine a whole new planet where the whole ecosystem is foreign! When I went to the Philippines I thought I'd die after drinking local water, and it was on the same planet.

The script is just terribly bad. And what saddens me is that these past few years from all the movies I saw at the theater the only ones that really made me shake my head (outside of this piece of garbage "Lucy") were both Prometheus and Alien Covenant. Writing scripts is a full time job. How can they fuck it up so much and put so many nonsensical things in them and how in the hell can they not write interesting characters? And how is it possible that someone like Ridley doesn't realize the whole thing stinks?

I mean the movie starts with an helmet that detects signals better than a futuristic ship and said ship whose systems are disabled because 1/4th of its solar panel is not properly connected. The whole beginning looks nice but is already totally stupid.

But one of the worst things outside of all the bullshit these movies contain is that Ridley retcons the aesthetic of the original movies. No more retro futurism, the engineer size retconned (still fine in Alien: Engineers), etc. A game like Alien Isolation is much more faithful to the original alien movie than anything Ridley has produced these last few years. The more I think about these news movies the more I wish I could just erase them from my memory.

Yeah I couldn't agree more. Covenant is such a disappointment, not only did I think it was even worse than Prometheus but it actually damages the mystery and integrity of Alien which is one of my all time favourite movies and the sole reason I keep returning to this fucking basket case franchise.

Please Ridley, I'm sure you have enough money, just leave it alone.
 
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But her running back in conflicted what she was doing 2 seconds prior. Again, they are aping Alien with Ripley and Dallas arguing on letting Kane back in. The issue is the characters don't have consistency with themselves, but what the plot needs. Where they will betray the very thing they were doing just prior.

They set her up as worrying on contamination, between asking what is happening, throwing the bags out, locking the door, etc. Her leaving her friend to die makes sense or even locking themselves in.

But then her running back in with a gun blasting is the exact opposite of what her character was set up doing prior.

I feel like this wouldn't be an issue, except they do it several times in the flick. Between dude who follows David, Ten and the ship, etc.

There comes a point, where you can't have the characters sacrifice their character for the plot/action sequence.

Hell, the battle with Ripley 3 goes out to do battle on the shuttle does not make a lick of sense. She is running scared the entire time. Now? She is swinging from the ship on a harness doing battle and control a giant fucking claw. There is nothing leading in this. There is no, I can use a power loader, or her taking charge, or her picking up a gun, etc. It just Give me a gun, let me go fight this thing that's killed fucking everyone in a ridiculously stylish way with no lead up.
Need to quote this for truth. That last action scene sucked because it had no weight to anything. Ripley earned her power loader scene; this one was delivered because "let's be an action movie now"
 

Fancy Clown

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Dec 3, 2013
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Not totally realistic? Even if the atmosphere was breathable in a real case scenario you wouldn't remove your helmet for weeks until you're 100% sure nothing can happen! Mosquitoes on earth itself carry deadly viruses, imagine a whole new planet where the whole ecosystem is foreign! When I went to the Philippines I thought I'd die after drinking local water, and it was on the same planet.

The script is just terribly bad. And what saddens me is that these past few years from all the movies I saw at the theater the only ones that really made me shake my head (outside of this piece of garbage "Lucy") were both Prometheus and Alien Covenant. Writing scripts is a full time job. How can they fuck it up so much and put so many nonsensical things in them and how in the hell can they not write interesting characters? And how is it possible that someone like Ridley doesn't realize the whole thing stinks?

I mean the movie starts with an helmet that detects signals better than a futuristic ship and said ship whose systems are disabled because 1/4th of its solar panel is not properly connected. The whole beginning looks nice but is already totally stupid.

But one of the worst things outside of all the bullshit these movies contain is that Ridley retcons the aesthetic of the original movies. No more retro futurism, the engineer size retconned (still fine in Alien: Engineers), etc. A game like Alien Isolation is much more faithful to the original alien movie than anything Ridley has produced these last few years. The more I think about these news movies the more I wish I could just erase them from my memory.

Movies make leaps like that for the expedience of plot all the time. A super computer going "yup this place is super livable for humans" is movie speaks for saying you don't have to worry about bullshit like mosquitos and disease or anything that probably would be concerns irl. It's more lazy that they exploit the movie pseudoscience of them going without helmets to infect them than that it used that in the first place. Most of the movie takes place on the planet so they weren't gonna be in helmets the whole time in what's supposed to be paradise (that's only corruption is the non-naturally occurring threats that movie logic supercomputer can't detect). Exploiting their lack of helmets specifically isn't a strong choice because the alien threat is scarier and more believable when it attacks through defenses that we thought they had safeguards for, so on that regard I agree. It makes the movie logic stand out as artificial. The neomorph eggs should have been like a spiky thing that can stab them through their boots if they step on it, or something else that would infect them regardless of how many protections they used.

Also, there was never any retro-futurism in Alien's aesthetic. There was inspiration from industrial design and WW2 bombers for the look of the Nostromo, but the CRT monitors and technology were not retro at the time. Each Alien movie has used the contemporary idea of future technology. Covenant is closer to Alien than Prometheus was in its spaceship design too, going back to the industrial piping look. Alien Isolation's use of CRT tech is retro-future because that stuff is only now retro. And it made that choice because the game is essentially about putting you into Ridley Scott's 1979 movie. It's a fan experience.
 

Orochinagis

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May 30, 2012
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Not totally realistic? Even if the atmosphere was breathable in a real case scenario you wouldn't remove your helmet for weeks until you're 100% sure nothing can happen! Mosquitoes on earth itself carry deadly viruses, imagine a whole new planet where the whole ecosystem is foreign! When I went to the Philippines I thought I'd die after drinking local water, and it was on the same planet.

The script is just terribly bad. And what saddens me is that these past few years from all the movies I saw at the theater the only ones that really made me shake my head (outside of this piece of garbage "Lucy") were both Prometheus and Alien Covenant. Writing scripts is a full time job. How can they fuck it up so much and put so many nonsensical things in them and how in the hell can they not write interesting characters? And how is it possible that someone like Ridley doesn't realize the whole thing stinks?

I mean the movie starts with an helmet that detects signals better than a futuristic ship and said ship whose systems are disabled because 1/4th of its solar panel is not properly connected. The whole beginning looks nice but is already totally stupid.

But one of the worst things outside of all the bullshit these movies contain is that Ridley retcons the aesthetic of the original movies. No more retro futurism, the engineer size retconned (still fine in Alien: Engineers), etc. A game like Alien Isolation is much more faithful to the original alien movie than anything Ridley has produced these last few years. The more I think about these news movies the more I wish I could just erase them from my memory.

I want to believe the director didnt want to hide their faces on helmets , the expedition would probably take off their helmets on David's hideout but you know, they audience might get bored to wait
 

2002whitegt

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Sep 5, 2013
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I have one big question that's bugged me for since I saw the movie last night.

Did David somehow take over Walter? Or did he somehow also cut off his hand? David also had the stab wound from the nail under his chin, but the android on the ship at the end didn't.
 

SchrodingerC

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Apr 16, 2014
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Lawd, why must writers make characters so ungodly stupid. I mean, some of the characters aren't as idiotic as the Prometheus cast, but that captain was up there. Why look into a creepy egg at the behest of an obviously shady robot when the previous scene established David had an emotional outburst for the protomorph, rather than the dead human.
The captain witnessed all of this and still looked into the egg.
GAH, so fucking bad.

Oh, and nice 1 minute cameo from James Franco.
 

Guy.brush

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Feb 23, 2013
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I want to believe the director didnt want to hide their faces on helmets , the expedition would probably take off their helmets on David's hideout but you know, they audience might get bored to wait

As someone said it before, the insult is not that they decided against helmets for convenience sake, the insult comes from Scott using the no-helmets situation to have the crew be easily infected with spores so the plot can kick into higher gear.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Oct 25, 2011
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The whole ending of the movie screamed 'this was different at some point but then a new writer rewrote it and forgot to take out the hooks of the previous ending'.

Like they make a pretty big point out of her sticking the nail through David's chin in the fight, and setting up that the David model android can't self-repair whereas the Walter model can. And then they have a scene where she helps the David android patch itself up, which is where I suspect the original ending had her notice the hole in David's chin.

It was so bizarre to have such an obvious Chekov's gun that then...went nowhere.

[edit] Overall though I enjoyed the half of the movie that was like an Alien movie, the Prometheus half was, well, more Prometheus, which is to say a pretty confused mess. And we're still absolutely no closer at all to explaining how and why the derelict ends up on LV426 filled with eggs.
 

MIMIC

Banned
Jun 11, 2004
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So.....what happened in the end? Did iPhone 6 kill iPhone 7 and we just never saw that scene?

(I can't remember their names and that's how I referred to them during the movie)
 

Twilight Gap

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Sep 28, 2012
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Saw it yesterday. Was incredibly boring and the plot twist was way too obvious.

Pretty much every thing sucked cover to cover. Prometheus is a masterpiece by comparison.
 

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
Oct 9, 2007
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Need to quote this for truth. That last action scene sucked because it had no weight to anything. Ripley earned her power loader scene; this one was delivered because "let's be an action movie now"

Pretty good way to say it.

Nothing in this film is earned.
 

GhaleonEB

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So.....what happened in the end? Did iPhone 6 kill iPhone 7 and we just never saw that scene?

(I can't remember their names and that's how I referred to them during the movie)

Yeah. David is reaching for a knife that has landed conveniently next to him. Scene ends. Presumably David kills notDavid with it.

Of course, now David has large non-healing wounds. Our nobel heroes do not notice that notDavid's self-healing isn't working because the script requires them to somehow not notice this.
 

benzy

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Sep 18, 2010
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Yeah. David is reaching for a knife that has landed conveniently next to him. Scene ends. Presumably David kills notDavid with it.

Of course, now David has large non-healing wounds. Our nobel heroes do not notice that notDavid's self-healing isn't working because the script requires them to somehow not notice this.

I like how the characters also automatically assume it's not-David when he shows up after the fight. I don't understand how this got the same RT score as Prometheus.
 

Fancy Clown

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I like how the characters also automatically assume it's not-David when he shows up. I don't understand how this got the same RT score as Prometheus.

...Really?...do you really think that Prometheus at the very least didn't have similar issues in terms of characterization and plot contrivances?
 

JB1981

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May 12, 2006
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Yeah. David is reaching for a knife that has landed conveniently next to him. Scene ends. Presumably David kills notDavid with it.

Of course, now David has large non-healing wounds. Our nobel heroes do not notice that notDavid's self-healing isn't working because the script requires them to somehow not notice this.

Perhaps they were not aware of his self-healing?
 

Fancy Clown

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I thought the characters in the two films were about equally dumb, just about different things.

Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment. Nothing in Covenant bugged me as much as the Millburn/Fifield fuckery though, not even taking a peak in David's egg.
 

Harmen

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Jul 24, 2014
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Saw it, this film is absolute garbage. And I actually somewhat enjoy Prometheus, that one had a decent sense of mystery and some ambitious ideas for the plot. This is just weak ass Alien film infused with a garbage derivative/continuation of Prometheus.

As for the entire situation with the scientists being goddamn idiots, the writers didn't even try there. Show a short montage of them exploring and testing, for example. To establish that they did their work properly. Hell, why where those spore infections even needed in the plot? There were plenty of nasty proto-xenomorphs already to bring tension. And the original Fassbot could've sabotaged things, instead of a team of scientists responsible for an entire colony being goddamned fools. Or just make them crash due to technical issues early in the film, and have them be the planet without their trusted gear to test anything. But as is now this band of idiots already turned me off in the first 10 minutes or so, if not earlier. No tension at all, just frustration to the extent that I am convinced the average Gaffer could write better characters in a quick draft. Because all humans were fucking terrible in this film. Not a single one of them has even a slight likable moment. Only moments of stupidity or just blandness. That new lead has to be one of the most forgettable characters in a recent blockbuster, I don't even remember her name and just saw the film like 1 hour ago.

3/10 film, on par with the garbage that is AvP2. Latter is worse but at least it does not try to be smart and it doesn't piss me off. Covenant looks good and I like Fassbender, and that's about it.

I don't know what it is, for some reason this film makes me rant, I usually don't have that.
 

s_mirage

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Jan 2, 2012
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Perhaps they were not aware of his self-healing?

That's my opinion too. The self healing is only a plot hole if you assume that the surviving characters are intimately familiar with Walter's specs; we see the ability, but the crew never did.
 

Toothless

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Oct 12, 2014
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Indiana
“Do you want to serve in heaven or reign in hell?”

Alien: Covenant is a film in constant struggle. It cannot decide whether it wants to be a spectacular sequel to Prometheus, building off characters and moments from that film that justifies its existence, or if it wants to be a generic Alien sequel, full of forgettable characters and dull setpieces. It's clear Scott would rather it be the former, but he directs the generic Alien scenes well, making them be slightly more enjoyable than they could be others' hands, but that's not enough to make them truly needed here.

Fassbender unsurprisingly is the best part of both of these films, in a dual role that makes him the most memorable part of this. Scratch that, that's underselling him too much; Fassbender delivers the best performance in a blockbuster since 2015, making his characters utterly compelling, overshadowing the actual monsters present here in sheer terror. It's a truly remarkable performance in an otherwise sadly unremarkable film.

The rest of the ensemble can be lumped together as "forgettable." Technically, the film always looks good, and it's also just really nice to see a hard-R gritty sci-fi horror in this day and age. Besides those simple joys and Fassbender, Alien: Covenant remains a large disappointment, being so close to greatness, but being too concerned with the franchise's own history to touch it.
 

BiggNife

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I saw this without having seen Prometheus (I read a summary to get the gist) and yeah, I don't think I liked it that much

It tries to be Prometheus 2, Alien 2, and Aliens 2 all at the same time and succeeds at none of those things

Alien 1 is one of my favorite movies of all time and I was really hoping they would try to make this a proper successor to the original but obviously it wasn't

And considering this movie is bombing I wouldn't be surprised at all if the next Alien film is a hard reboot, which would be icing on the cake considering David's ability to pacify and command Aliens is something that was clearly set up as a sequel hook, since he barely doesn't anything with that in the film.
 

Barzul

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Jun 8, 2013
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Glad I'm not the only one who thought it was clusterfuck then. Good. Posters above me have brought up so many of the things that aggravated me. I've never seen a group of supposedly smart people make such stupid decisions and miss easily observable hints in the environment. Also whose dumb idea was it to separate a husband and wife when going to go investigate a completely unknown planet? I mean I don't even really agree couples should be taken on a one way trip like this in the first place. It just pissed me off that the pilot dude basically endangered the whole crew and colonists because he thought he could save his wife and it was all moot in the end.
 

GhaleonEB

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Perhaps they were not aware of his self-healing?
That seems like a pretty major feature? Why would they not know about it?

Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment. Nothing in Covenant bugged me as much as the Millburn/Fifield fuckery though, not even taking a peak in David's egg.

I thought all the events leading up to it were on that level. The captain goes looking for the missing crew member, who he finds getting gnawed on by an alien that David is clearly sympathetic to. The captain could radio the others that he found the crew member. He could order David to head out to where the others are waiting. Or he could let David monologue about his monster making and then stick his face in a giant alien egg without ever telling anyone about anything.

I wanted to scream during that whole sequence. He found her! The moment he doesn't pull either the trigger or use his radio, we know he's dead.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Oct 25, 2011
28,715
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The movie forgot about Daniels until act 2's end

Isn't that basically the structure of the original Alien too? Sigourney Weaver is just a member of an ensemble cast until towards the end when she becomes the main character.
 

Fancy Clown

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I thought all the events leading up to it were on that level. The captain goes looking for the missing crew member, who he finds getting gnawed on by an alien that David is clearly sympathetic to. The captain could radio the others that he found the crew member. He could order David to head out to where the others are waiting. Or he could let David monologue about his monster making and then stick his face in a giant alien egg without ever telling anyone about anything.

I wanted to scream during that whole sequence. He found her! The moment he doesn't pull either the trigger or use his radio, we know he's dead.

At least it's already established in the movie that Oram is not a very good leader and is obsessed with finding answers for anything that goes wrong, so while it's dumb it at least doesn't totally contradict the character and even the tone of the movie, unlike Fifield and Millburn suddenly not being able to perform even the most basic functions of their job and then turning into a stoner comedy in a sequence that is supposed to be the first one of tension.
 

Mario

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As for the entire situation with the scientists being goddamn idiots, the writers didn't even try there. Show a short montage of them exploring and testing, for example.

I wasn't a fan of the film, but I think it is at least worth noting they were colonists not scientists. Subtle difference given they all would have been intelligent and qualified at... something. But the nature of their mission was different such that to me it felt like a lot of their decisions were mostly rash rather than stupid.

The behaviour of the scientists in Prometheus was more egregious than Covenant I felt because the characters there were acting against their own nature and the point of the mission in ways that didn't make sense (and not in some smart narrative focused way either). For example, the biologist bails at the opportunity to inspect the first alien (intelligent!) life ever discovered and yet ignores the obviously dangerous signals of alien snake, map guy gets lost, and archaeologist gets even more religious after having the origin of humankind explained as not supernatural. They just did dumb, unintuitive things.

In any case, there was a testing and exploration scene in Covenant, which is where the first person got infected. Personally, I would have happily swapped that entirely for a five second "scan atmosphere and determine it is breathable" scene which felt oddly missing.


David def stole Walter's body with the self healing and whatnot.

I don't see how he had either the time or capability for that at all given a head swap would have required "surgery". David barely had time to cut off his own hand and swap clothes.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Jun 10, 2012
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Isn't that basically the structure of the original Alien too? Sigourney Weaver is just a member of an ensemble cast until towards the end when she becomes the main character.

Partly, but Ripley's assertiveness was pushed distinctively. She was against letting the crew back onboard, pushed Ash for answers and continually pushed Mother for answers when Dallas was gone.

Daniels whimpered and generally let the plot wash over her.
 

Elandyll

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Oct 13, 2014
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They were both awful. Daniels was just Ripley-lite and Shaw was simply a moron.
I liked Shaw a lot.

She was a badass with questions who didn't crumble like her boyfriend when reality came knocking.

Her treatment in Covenant was borderline criminal, but again so was the increased stupidity in the ship's crew.

Remember the shit Prometheus got for having Theron run in a straight line before the ship crushed her?

Covenant had that level of idiocy for pretty much every single character save Fassbender.
 

Ushojax

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I liked Shaw a lot.

She was a badass with questions who didn't crumble like her boyfriend when reality came knocking.

Her treatment in Covenant was borderline criminal, but again so was the increased stupidity in the ship's crew.

Remember the shit Prometheus got for having Theron run in a straight line before the ship crushed her?

Covenant had that level of idiocy for pretty much every single character save Fassbender.

Shaw was a cretin. The movie asks me to believe that she is an elite scientist yet she behaves like a high school religious studies student. She's tough but tragically dim.