All Playstation Platforms to use Playready which points to a significant PS3 update

Is webkit still coming?
Yes, DLNA CVP2 is a HTML5 app and that requires webkit in Playstation platforms with multiple W3C extensions; Java, DLNA, WebRTC, WebTV, game Joysticks, Gesture and Voice control APIs and more that all DLNA CVP2 platforms must support. In addition bluetooth 4.01 is a standard to support Internet of things and game joysticks and more.

Edit: Cable Labs Paper on DLNA CVP2 has everything outlined in fairly easy to read language

the HTML5 RUI browser implementation that is part of CableLabs’ CVP-2 Client. The HTML5 RUI browser uses WebKit [21] and GTK [22] at its core. CableLabs contributed extensions to WebKit to support DLNA HTML5 RUI requirements such as mapping of MPEG-2 TS elementary streams carrying TV services such as closed captions, SAP, ETV, and ad insertion.
Sony in the PS3 uses GTKwebkit2 APIs and has since the Oct 2010 disclosure. In 2007 Sony sent a PS3 Development kit to Collabora who was integrating Gstreamer into a GTKwebkit
 

Oppo

Member
Those links aren't laymen ready. Hence his question. If you can't contribute, don't bother saying anything
sorry, but don't blame jeff_rigby if you're too dim to follow some links. this just isn't that hard.

ignore the code words and focus on what he's saying. it's always sourced.
 

Dahaka

Member
I always rap jeff_rigby threads with the poetic voice of The GZA.

Thanks for the always refreshing infos, jeff.
 
This is pretty interesting stuff Jeff, thanks. DetectiveGaf on the case again! Just hope the content providers make the most of this with some innovative solutions to encourage uptake, even if this means we have everything we need to start already in our homes. (btw I always assumed the Xbox One was named after Input 1.) No doubt Europe will lag behind *grumble, grumble*
 
I think the player is part of the embedded routines and already done. It's really hard to determine what is running in the X-86 APU and what is running on an ARM buss inside the Low power Southbridge. We can know that eventually all IPTV will run in the Southbridge as Low Power IPTV and when that happens then suspend/resume and DLNA will be released.

Video chat as WebRTC 2.0 or ORTC 1.01 is nearly ready as they are calling for implementations. My guess which is always wrong as to timing is March 2015.

Trying to catch up via the various links, but I've got a couple of questions:

Why is the IPTV/DLNA stuff related to suspend/resume? Does s/r rely on the same capabilities in the southbridge as the media functions (low power, voice control)?

How does this help game devs? How would the implementation of a new DRM stack for DLNA enable a better AA solution?
 
Yes, DLNA CVP2 is a HTML5 app and that requires webkit in Playstation platforms with multiple W3C extensions; Java, DLNA, WebRTC, WebTV, game Joysticks, Gesture and Voice control APIs and more that all DLNA CVP2 platforms must support. In addition bluetooth 4.01 is a standard to support Internet of things and game joysticks and more.

You are the voice of hope.
 
You are the voice of hope.

• Keeping implementation on target to meet a tight schedule
• Supporting the integration of software components with client applications being designed and implemented on parallel schedules
"Tight schedule and parallel schedules" = Getting close to a roadmap deadline yeah! This is Sony so what do they consider a tight schedule?
 
Trying to catch up via the various links, but I've got a couple of questions:

Why is the IPTV/DLNA stuff related to suspend/resume? Does s/r rely on the same capabilities in the southbridge as the media functions (low power, voice control)?
Many of the current IPTV apps including Netflix are using OpenCL, the GPU in the APU for codecs and include their own player and DRM. Multiple power modes and suspend resume are supposed to be supported by DLNA CVP2 STBs with IPTV streaming limited to 20 watts. When the PS4 APIs (Southbridge routines) are published to Netflix they can use them rather than use the APU's GPU. At that point Netflix can release an app that uses the software stack in the PS4 and stream with the APU, at least the GPU off. Implementing suspend resume when the GPU must always be on is not useful until the GPU can be turned off and apps still run.

DLNA discovery is always running to allow a "second screen" tablet or phone to cause the PS4 to wake to the Low power IPTV mode and depending on function to turn on a Stereo or TV via CEC. Or to have the PS4 act as a DLNA server with stereo and TV off.

How does this help game devs? How would the implementation of a new DRM stack for DLNA enable a better AA solution?
It doesn't but the Xtensa video DPU in the Southbridge can do post video processing like AA. The DPUs in the XB1 are inside the SOC and can do more.
 
It doesn't but the Xtensa video DPU in the Southbridge can do post video processing like AA. The DPUs in the XB1 are inside the SOC and can do more.

Thanks! I am learning things today.

So the PS4 DPU sees the video rendered by the GPU and can apply AA before it gets output, but is constrained by not having direct access to the main system memory? The XB1 DPU is in the northbridge so has more flexibility?
 

Wynnebeck

Banned
DLNA coming soon and Xbone and PS4 possibly acting as media boxes with forward updates? Interesting. Wonder if this is one step closer to the Xbone subsidizing everyone was expecting at the beginning of this generation.
 
another attempt to make it easier to understand:

According to DRM today; the PS3 is still using Marlin. Why the PS3 Playready support and what does it mean for us?

This means all apps using DRM on the PS3 are either using Marlin or contain within themselves the DRM routines. Why support Playready now when it requires the below (2) when IPTV Apps have been able to support DRM within themselves for 4 years?

Edit:
Playready is designed for embedded platforms that have a root of trust boot and embed (hide) keys, Player/codec as well as require the player to follow Metadata DRM rules that are encrypted as part of the encrypted Media for ALL media from any source. This is key to what's coming!

The answer: Sony uses Marlin DRM in Japan and other Asian countries as it's a FREE open source derived DRM but MUST use Playready in the US to be part of the Playready ecosystem (Microsoft papers use this term) or the DLNA CVP2 ecosystem (world wide DRM agnostic standard) mandated by the FCC. The FCC mandated that all cable companies in the US must use the same DRM scheme so that customer equipment, if they move, can be used in any part of the country (Playready was chosen in 2011). In China and Japan likely Marlin will be used as the DRM with DLNA CVP2.

If they are going to support DLNA CVP2 and be certified they must update DLNA to the three box model, HTML5 with W3C extensions and of course support Playready and WMDRM10 for DTCP-IP in the US and Marlin in Asia. I've speculated the PS3 will get a openGL XMB like the PS4 and this might also be coming. Downside is a slightly longer boot time but the upside are the Apps and browser running much faster and cross platform apps between PS3, PS4 and Vita. Since the OS kernel in memory will be larger the embedded routines are better obfuscated. If eGLIB makes it into the PS3 like in the PS4 we may see mono and additionally ICE routines in eGLIB are necessary for peer to peer game sharing in PS4 firmware 2.0 (Share 2.0) and video chat between platforms outside the Sony ecosystem. .

Is 256 megs enough, the PS4 Southbridge also has 256 megs and Xtensa DPUs are stream processors VERY similar to Cell and can support "low power GPU functions for OS and Games" which likely means the DDR3 memory attached to Sourhbridge is also being used for a video frame buffer which is not needed in the PS3.

2) To install Playready support requires embedded and protected (Encryption Keys, Codec, Meta data rules and player). Sony has sponsored DRM agnostic APIs (On ARM platforms with Trustzone) for the embedded routines or "translation" managed by the middleware so the same low level embedded routines protected by Trustzone can support multiple DRM schemes. Protected on the PS3 means the kernel image is encrypted (in memory and on the hard disk) using the master encryption key which was hacked.

3) The PS4 is already listed as supporting Playready and Marlin and it has a ARM Southbridge that nearly everyone now acknowledges has the Codecs and DRM. Since it's ARM the DRM agnostic APIs Sony sponsored could be used.

4) But the PS3 is not ARM and it's DRM, codecs, player and metadata are likely 4 years old. Further the hidden encryption key was hacked. Currently IPTV APPS force a reboot to have a known kernel they can check. It can't use Trustzone so Sony must obfuscate the he** out of the embedded routines but still use a middleware Playready can use and include Playready routines that check the middleware for piracy.

5) If this can be done securely then reboots before and after apps run is no longer required. IPTV apps using the embedded routines and middleware supporting Playready can become much smaller and load quicker. I am assuming the OS kernel in memory MUST have the embedded key, codecs, player and metadata hidden in it to obfuscate the routines.

6) repeating what's in the previous post: In the PS3 it means all the DTCP-IP DRM routines tied to the DLNA player and DRM for the IPTV player are being changed. To reduce the OS size and insure DRM the DLNA player, HTML5 player and blu-ray-DVD player should be the same using the same Metadata rules and DRM.

Sony reveals PlayStation Vue streaming service.

191 Jobs postings at Sony this month point to something massive happening.

All Playstation Platforms to use Playready

Microsoft Playready and DTCP-IP implications For PS4 and XB1
 
Anyone notice:

PS3 PS Home closes it's doors March 31 2015 which is a Firmware update Tuesday

Music unlimited becomes Spotify on both the PS3 and PS4 (March 29, 2015 Music Unlimited ends and likely March 31 Spotify begins with a firmware update) in 41 different markets with multiple languages which requires new apps. Are they to both be HTML5/openGL based or different. One of the things that should happen if the UI software stack changes on the PS3 is that current apps would have to be rewritten at least in part. Is this why Home closes it's doors on the same date?

Tidex states the PS4 is getting a major firmware update March 29, 2015. Is he speculating on the above or does he have inside information. Sony's blog states that a Major PS4 firmware update is coming soon. http://www.worldsfactory.net/2015/02/24/rumor-big-ps4-firmware-update-around-29-march

The latest PS3 firmware update added Closed Caption Text to the DVD and Blu-ray player and of course stability updates. Adding text to the DVD and Blu-ray player means the "Video player" core was touched which I expected with Playready DRM being integrated into the OS. Will the XMB soon be Cairo with Harfbuzz like the PS4 (Pango was depreciated)? This is what is used in latest versions of Firefox, GNOME, ChromeOS, Chrome, LibreOffice, XeTeX, Android, and KDE, among other places.

The OS if using Harfbuzz makes the PS3 a easy to support international OS (remember 41 different Spotify markets need multiple text (right to left, left to right and vertical) and languages ). The target language should automatically change in all apps rather than software packages being targeted for countries. The PS3 had separate DVD and Blu-ray players and separate language packs for the menus on those apps, CC has to be done on the fly and overlayed on the video..

Note: This possible XMB change to Cairo-Pango is an on-going gentleman's disagreement between androvsky and myself from late 2011. Harfbuzz (pango depreciated) can be used with OpenVG rather than Cairo if Sony still feels there is a security issue in using Cairo. Point that favors the use of Cairo is that HTML5 and W3C webGL is required for Vidipath certified platforms. RUI requires a standard across all certified platforms. The PS3 is still missing accelerated (GPU with Cairo/OpenGL) text in the browser..

Past threads that are part of this:

191 Jobs postings at Sony this month (June 2014) point to something massive happening end of 2014 ramping up through 2015 with HTML5 apps and services..
Sony Plans to Expand Game Division into Media Hub
Game Consoles to replace Cable boxes and the connected home starts 2014 June 2015
 
I have read through this thread and still don't understand.

Talk to me like I am stupid:

Why should I be excited about this?
 

antibolo

Banned
I understand everything jeff_rigby says but I still never understand why he says all those things. He seems like he's just overanalysing technical aspects just for the hell of it. He should be writing whitepapers, not posting on GAF.
 
Holy shit so many interesting and fascinating things that... I don't really understand.

I guess I get the gist of it. Sony is planning on doing some major overhauls, and the PS3 isn't done yet not by a longshot.

It feels like Sony is gonna start pushing the PS4 to become a better media center. Like they kinda focused on video games from the start, and any media features they're just gonna add later on.
 
Jeff in THREE sentences explain what you are talking about, how it's relevant, and what it will do for us.

I guess the PS3/PS4 apps (video/music players, and anything browser based) are either going to need significant changes to work with the new firmware or are going to be discontinued entirely?

I've never used my Sony consoles to do anything other than game and play disc media so I suspect this means nothing for people in my situation.
 

skynidas

Banned
i think what it means is that we are getting a big update at the end of march that will completely overhaul the ps3 UI, deleting some old apps and providing compatibility with new ones.
 
I'm with you. I haven't understood a single shit of what we are talking about :( I want to be excite but I can't.
I don't think it's meant to be exciting.
It's potentially a change in the underlying software being used, to support a particular standard of drm.

The only exciting part is the speculation that this brings DLNA to PS4.
 
Jeff in THREE sentences explain what you are talking about, how it's relevant, and what it will do for us.

I hate to keep doing this as it sounds flippant but read the blue links especially this one on International text like Chinese that is read vertically or Arabic that is read right to left and understand that Harfbuzz handles the font and direction the text is printed to the screen.

Closed Caption in blu-ray and DVD should support the same and that couldn't be done like the preset language packages for the menu items, CC has to be done on the fly and overlayed on the video. Watermarking video will be a part of DRM which is essentially the same process. Sony waited to support CC till Harfbuzz was ready AND till they needed to rewrite the DVD and Blu-ray players to support Playready which they have known they would be doing since 2011.

Harfbuzz will be an integral part of the Browser too....

Harfbuzz may be using Cairo/OpenGL if Playready addresses the IPTV security concerns Sony has for the PS3. If that is the case then the browser gets accelerated and the XMB might become similar to the PS4 webGL desktop (not the look and feel but the underlying software stack).

androvsky and I were talking about this late 2011 with me arguing PS3 sales to third world markets is coming and that needs Cairo-Pango which became Cairo or OpenVG Harfbuzz. It follows that video chat, browser and multiple HTML5 apps make the PS3 valuable to homes that don't have computers. Sony is positioning it'self to provide entertainment (Sony Studios) to third world countries;. Services, games and media. Another of my predictions is interactive educational games and programs are coming.
 
Wibble.

Seriously, you're incredibly overly verbose.

From what I understand, the tl;dr is that the groundwork for updating DLNA to the new standard is well underway for the PS3. There's a decent chance that the underlying OS will get a re-write to use the new DLNA components, which should hopefully lead to performance increases (most notably in the web browser and the PlayStation Store). Indeed, the last update (the one that introduced closed captions support to DVDs and Blu Rays) was a decent chunk of the new DLNA going in.

Meanwhile, PlayStation Music is a thing that's going to happen at the end of March. It will probably launch simultaneously on PS3 and PS4. It would make sense for it to be based on the new DLNA standard to save on effort later. Therefore, it would be required for almost all of that new DLNA standard to be ready to roll on both PS3 and PS4.

Or, in short, it's likely that the PlayStation Music update in March will also be the DLNA update for the PS4 (and PS3). Said update should hopefully make the PS Store less crap on the PS3.

At least, that's how I think the logic goes.
 

Hexa

Member

Why do you think Sony is using Harfbuzz? You seem to be providing more reasoning behind why it would be a good idea than evidence that they actually are?

And what does Harfbuzz have to do with Playready?
 
Wibble.

Seriously, you're incredibly overly verbose.
Sony is preparing to support their movies in third world countries with closed caption. The same technology supports a browser or Apps for third world countries.

PS3 is not dead.

Speculation, a cheaper refresh is coming for those third world countries.

Hexa said:
And what does Harfbuzz have to do with Playready?

Sony waited to support CC till Harfbuzz was ready AND till they needed to rewrite the DVD and Blu-ray players to support Playready which they have known they would be doing since 2011.
 

Ade

Member
Sony is preparing to support their movies in third world countries with closed caption. The same technology supports a browser or Apps for third world countries.

PS3 is not dead.

Speculation, a cheaper refresh is coming for those third world countries.


Thank you.
 
From what I understand, the tl;dr is that the groundwork for updating DLNA to the new standard is well underway for the PS3. There's a decent chance that the underlying OS will get a re-write to use the new DLNA components, which should hopefully lead to performance increases (most notably in the web browser and the PlayStation Store). Indeed, the last update (the one that introduced closed captions support to DVDs and Blu Rays) was a decent chunk of the new DLNA going in.

Meanwhile, PlayStation Music is a thing that's going to happen at the end of March. It will probably launch simultaneously on PS3 and PS4. It would make sense for it to be based on the new DLNA standard to save on effort later. Therefore, it would be required for almost all of that new DLNA standard to be ready to roll on both PS3 and PS4.

Or, in short, it's likely that the PlayStation Music update in March will also be the DLNA update for the PS4 (and PS3). Said update should hopefully make the PS Store less crap on the PS3.

At least, that's how I think the logic goes.
What some are calling DLNA 2 is really a update to HTML5 to include W3C extensions first of which is DLNA and that version of DLNA should include support for the three box model allowing control of the PS3 DLNA player/renderer by a phone or tablet.

Other W3C extensions are webTV, Java, webRTC, Media Extension (HTML5 <video> ME), WebGL and not currently required but on a roadmap or considered must haves by some manufacturers are voice and gesture control, Gamepad, expanded CEC control and more like Second screen support which is VERY similar to the DLNA three box model where the Cable DVR menu is shown on the Phone and controls the DLNA player/renderer connected to the TV..
 
He's just speculating they may be adding more HTML5 apis into the ps3, ps4 and in some cases the Vita which will allow thingns like DLNA, html5 video drm and things like game pad support (as strange as that sounds on a console) for web/html5 apps. I believe jeff is hypothesising this will help turn the ps3/ps4 into an even greater "cable box killer", etc.
 
He's just speculating they may be adding more HTML5 apis into the ps3, ps4 and in some cases the Vita which will allow thingns like DLNA, html5 video drm and things like game pad support (as strange as that sounds on a console) for web/html5 apps. I believe jeff is hypothesising this will help turn the ps3/ps4 into an even greater "cable box killer", etc.
A Little more than speculation given Sony and Microsoft have been planning for this since sometime after 1995 and it's outlined in part in the 2010 leaked Xbox 720 Powerpoint.

The PS3 likely won't be a media server since it doesn't have the low power modes but the PS4 is called a media hub by those in the know and that does not include Patcher.

Cable Labs has a reference Implementation for a DLNA Server that requires eGLIB's DBUS already in the PS4. The PS4 follows Gnome Mobile APIs and the Browser uses GTKwebkit2 APIs and likely Gstreamer APIs with Sony's own version using the Xtensa IVP that Microsoft also uses.

Rygel is a home media solution that allows you to easily share audio, video and
pictures, and control of media player on your home network. In technical terms
it is both a UPnP AV MediaServer and MediaRenderer implemented through a plug-in
mechanism. Interoperability with other devices in the market is achieved by
conformance to very strict requirements of DLNA and on the fly conversion of
media to format that client devices are capable of handling.

Important facts and features
============================

* Specifically designed for GNOME (Mobile) and is therefore planned to be one
of the key new features of GNOME 3.0 and Maemo platform in the Harmattan
release.
* Based on GUPnP.
* APIs to ease the implementation of AV devices.
* Export of on-disk media:
* Tracker plugin.
* MediaExport plugin: Recursively exports folders and files specified in
the user configuration. This plugin supports all
types of URIs that gio/gvfs and gstreamer can handle.
* Export of online media from 2nd German TV station.
* Export of media hierarchies provided by external applications through
implementation of D-Bus MediaServer spec. Applications that utilize
this feature are:
* DVB Daemon
* Rhythmbox
* Export of GStreamer pipelines as media items on the network, specified
through gst-launch syntax in the user configuration.
* Audio and Video Transcoding: source format could be anything GStreamer's
decodebin2 can handle but output formats are currently limited to: mp3, PCM
and MPEG TS. Fortunately the transcoding framework is flexible enough to
easily add more transcoding targets.
DTCP-IP DRM for Rygel can be found here and notice the library folder that contains the routines $CVP2_ROOT/lib. CVP2 is the Playready Commercial Video Profile 2 as WMDRM10 is a subset of Playready for DTCP-IP DRM.

* Export of GStreamer pipelines as media items on the network, specified
through gst-launch syntax in the user configuration.
with Cable Labs and Comcat's RDK using the same means the gstreamer network pipelines as Media Items on the Network are the accepted Standard for Media streaming so any Media Hub has to stream media like Rygel/gstreamer does.

Glib contains some of the glibc low level routines but it also contains dbus, ICE and Telepathy. Three very important lower level libraries for sharing data between desktop applications (dbus) and setting up a video and audio chat (telepathy) past firewalls (ICE) without needing a Sony server. Telepathy is generally used with Gstreamer another common Gnome library.



If you look at the Peripheral HW accelerators in pink at the bottom right, AMD UVD, VCE and Trueaudio are listed. AMD's UVD and Trueaudio use Xtensa DPUs as does the XB1 and PS4 (confirmed for audio and if you want to use Cadence libraries for audio you will use Cadence Xtensa IVP for video). A Linux or Unix platform that uses Gnome APIs should use Gstreamer APIs. About the middle of the slide it says: HW accelerated plugins shunt execution to accelerated DSPs and the result back.

Again, Gstreamer is not listed in the PS4 about or Open Source software lists but it's very likely that the PS4 follows the same APIs and handles using the Xtensa accelerators the same way that AMD does for the Linux kernel example they provide. Because it's a game console, going any lower and it could be custom routines to access the accelerators and of course the accelerators themselves will use codec libraries likely provided by Cadence-Tensilica.

Every codec, compression and DRM stream will likely use the Xtensa DPUs as HW accelerators.
 
Quick overview of things to come.

DTCP-IP paper and authorized protection for: Output from AACS-enabled HD DVD & Blu-ray players. Which means we will soon have Blu-ray players that stream over the home network to certified platforms.. PS4, XB1 and maybe the PS3 can support this. This was also an example I found in 2012 in a paper to the EU power boards for a game console accessing and controlling a blu-ray player over the home network and requiring IPTV power modes.

Samba network file server and remote Blu-ray later this year can support diskless game consoles like the rumored Xbox 360 Mini or a PS3 (no rumors).

Cites and what they mean:

For the PS3 a PDF on Passage was just released at the latest FCC DSTAC (Downloadable Security Technical Advisory Committee) meeting. Page 12 has a chart showing a PS3 being used as a Vidipath STB.

Top path is RVU which the PS3 already supports.
Direct Attach End to End (center path) which is all IPTV direct from a cable modem . The future but Cable can't currently support more than a small percentage of their customers going all IPTV.
Sony is definitely supporting Vidipath, page 12 bottom path (Traditional Cable TV with the DLNA CVP2 FCC mandate where a DVR with tuners converts a RF channel to IPTV streams )

Second Sony Passage Paper to the FCC DSTAC is about using clear QAM tuners (USB, PC Card and Network tuners) with PCs, PS4, Phones and Tablets as the client using the DSS (Downloadable Security Scheme) (page 10 and 11). A picture of the PS3 labeled PS4 on page 11 is using a Hauppauge USB Tuner. Also on that page is a HD Homerun network tuner feeding a home WiFi router to portables.

The 2010 Leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint (XB1) has the HD Homerun listed third row down, third column from the left. These two tuners were chosen by the W3C's TV working group as standards and their control schemes will be used as the APIs for the Network and USB tuner control standards supported by W3C extensions to Javascript. HTML5 TV tuner Control will work for both Cable TV and Antenna TV.

Comcast just signed an agreement with Sony to use Passage. This plus last year's Sony Job posting for a Sony representative to help cable companies with Vidipath, Miracast and more mean it's likely soon.

After Jan 2015 Microsoft is not charging for the use of their Playready server. They would only do that if they think it would become a standard used by Cable TV. This also gives us that Microsoft knows this is coming in 2015. The current listed DTCP-IP DRM for Vidipath is WMDRM10 which is a subset of Playready versions lower than 3. Vidipath's Cable TV FCC mandate was delayed by a Tivo suit to June 2015 and it was always planned for Vidipath to be upgraded to support HEVC and OTT 4K media by 2016. WMDRM10 is not secure enough to support what content owners want for 1080P and higher resolutions like 4K; thus Playready ND and Playready ports 2.5-3 (see Playready ports below).

Vidipath was supposed to be implemented June 2014 with Playready for OTT VOD from the cloud and the subset WMDRM10 supporting 1080i and lower resolutions for in home streaming (DTCP-IP) which were the limits of Cable TV broadcast at that time. There are now two versions of Playready in home streaming 1) WMDRM10 now called WMDRM ND and 2) Playready ND. Playready can Digital bridge between the two and media can tell Playready whether it's Master quality requiring the highest DRM security to lowest (500K pixels) not requiring DRM.

It appears Playready ND and WMDRM10 ND used for DTCP-IP can coexist. This paper from Microsoft section 8 deals with DTCP WMDRM ND media being issued a Playready ND license. Section 13 sets the same "local" home networking restrictions for Playready ND that are set for WMDRM ND when used with DTCP-IP.

From Microsoft's Playready 3 site: Supporting In-Home Content Distribution with PlayReady for Network Devices page 14

"The game console, acting as a PlayReady ND transmitter, has obtained a license from the service and it sends media files to valid PlayReady ND receivers that are part of the same in-home network. It also uses PlayReady technologies to build and issue local licenses to authorized receiving devices. Note that this model can also be applied to both live streams, video-on-demand and DVR content."
This confirms the XB1 and PS4 will be streaming 4K media in the home (from Cable TV and OTT) and supports both as 4K blu-ray players with digital bridge.

In addition the PS4 and XB1 will be DVRs and media servers of 1080P and 4K blu-ray using Playready ND or side loaded media from the cloud to Playready receivers. 4K will be downscaled to 1080P for platforms that don't support 4K or Playready 3.

Sony Delays in implementing Vidipath:

The current PS4 DLNA player is a placeholder for the final DLNA player. It does not support DRM and was built as a game mode app. The reason for the PS4 DLNA delay is the wait for Playready 3, HEVC and 4K blu-ray standards to be released. The reason the PS3 hasn't received any visible update to features is nearly the same; a wait for Playready, HTML5 <Video> ME (C-ENC format), HEVC and other standards to evolve. All these are part of what's required for Vidipath.

Sony's Playstation APPs are built with webkit native libraries and webkit and are called WebMAF. It was originally Firefox/Mozilla using Gnome native libraries but a Geko engine. A version of WebMAF using webkit instead of Geko was developed in 2009 and this is what Sony uses since 2012 when they ported Webkit to the PS3 and Vita. Since HTML5 <video> ME hadn't yet been created, Sony created Trilithium in 2008 which is the video player (assumption is that it uses the same APIs as Gstreamer) and some pixel/window frame manipulation routines seen in the PS3 XMB. Combining C++, WebMAF/Webkit and Trilithium allows Sony to create IPTV Apps. Trilithium has to be retired in favor of HTML5 <video> ME (embedded Playready with C-ENC format) and maybe WebGL. ALL IPTV apps on the PS3 created in 2012 have not been updated since 2012. Spotify is a WebMAF app just released a few months ago to the PS3 and it's a WEBMAF app without Video...which seems to indicate that DRM and Video player are the holdouts for updating IPTV apps on the PS3.


Playready ports:

Playready Porting has several versions based on the underlying security scheme with the higher being more secure as seen in the chart below. All versions of Playready stream and negotiate keys in the same manner but Playready knows higher porting versions like "3" are more secure and content owners of 4K media may require 3. The XB1 and PS4 support TEE level (Playready 3) DRM required for 4K media including the HDMI chip's HDCP with the PS4 supporting all ARM recommendations allowing on-line transaction support.



The PS3 did/does not have embedded playready support; it's currently being ported to the PS3. The purple block on the left represents Playready support provided by the player; I.E. Netflix would have playready in the app software. The next block labeled 2.5 has embedded Playready with various levels of support/security which the PS3 should support. The next to last is probably Intel which has it's own version of a security processor. The one on the far right is ARM TEE level DRM which is supported by all AMD's APUs and I think all ARM phones and tablets since sometime after 2006. The XB1 and PS4 have ARM blocks managed by a ARM trustzone processor in the APU and Southbridge respectively using Xtensa stream processors for Codecs and more.


PS4 and XB1 hardware to support being a media hub (includes 4K blu-ray support)
HTML5 browser used as RUI for Vidipath (start at last post and walk backwards)
Connected home starts when Vidipath platforms become ubiquitous

EDIT: New information 9/2015

Playready Overview for DSTAC (FCC Downloadable Security to replace the Cable Card)

Microsoft making the case that it's Playready supports an end to end solution for Video in all it's forms.

What's Happening: Enhanced Content (4K) requires ECP (Enhanced Content Protection) = Playready 3 and Playready ND use the C-ENC format
ECP requirements will raise the bar for all commercial content
HTML5 <video> apps and Dash will enable interoperable media distribution using the common encryption format (C-ENC)

HTML5 app and DASH media frameworks enable interoperable commercial media applications = HTML5 <video> EME MSE


Playready ND is ahead of the Revolution Presentation, must read plans and pricing for Playready ND in iOS and Android

4K Enhanced Content Protection = Playready ND In HOME streaming support to iOS and Android ( Porting kits to OEM, TVs, STB, PC, Silicon (Sony, Samsung, Nokia, Phillips, HTC (Mfg of Android and Windows Smart Phones)) from Windows 10 PCs, XB1 and ?PS4? My View is yes, 4K Playready ND streaming from the PS4 also. This is likely the reason for the Microsoft-Sony.com and Sony-Microsoft.com domain registration by Microsoft. They will be the first to support 4K blu-ray players with a Digital bridge that streams 4K blu-ray over the home network using Playready ND to their platforms (Android TVs and Phones as well as Microsoft Surface with Miracast streaming to TVs).

Playready ND is ECP 4K protection for streaming between platforms in the home. There is no other 4K source for streaming in the home except 4K blu-ray players and side loaded Playready (Ultraviolet model).

Anyone have another source for 4K in home content that can be streamed?


Since the PS4 and XB1 will be 4K blu-ray players I've also posted this on Blu-ray.com If I get banned on NeoGAF you can find me on Blu-ray.com
 
How long has PS4 been using PlayReady? was it added with the media player update last year?
Has any media app been updated to use embedded Playready on the PS3? That won't happen until the native library supporting HTML5 <video> EME MSE in the browser is available to the app so we should see HTML5test saying that support for HTML5 <video> EME MSE is in the browser.

When that happens the app should drop in size because Playready embedded requires the APP use the embedded player, codec, encryption routines and keys at a minimum and likely the app can also use the PS3 software stack.

The PS4 enterprise framework for APPs seen in the PS4 bootlog uses Mono calling a webkit and native library (webMAF) framework which likely will also use the native library supporting HTML <video> MSE EME. So the PS4 browser will get the HTML5 <video> MSE EME update and a test using HTML5test should show that.

Further I'd speculate that the PS3 and PS4, because ALL Media is now run through the same DRM aware player, that DVR for Antenna TV and DVR for Cable TV using the Downloadable security scheme can then be implemented. This includes properly handling streaming media between platforms that also support Playready which is the basis of Vidipath and Microsoft calls the Playready Ecosystem. Playready allows for a domain (all Playready platforms in the same home) and DTCP-IP using WMDRM10 included in Playready porting kits versions under 3, has tests to insure the local in home network is limited.
 

Mindwipe

Member
Edit: Note: Playready is supposed to be ONLY on embedded platforms where the manufacturer supports a root of trust boot and embeds and protects encryption keys, codecs and Player with the player required to support Metadata DRM rules which are also encrypted as part of the Content.

No it isn't. That's literally what why the Playready protection levels are designed to cover.

But this is once again a case of putting two and two together and getting nine hundred and twelve.
 
Jeff, i have been following your research on updated media capabilities for a while now and i know you previously mentioned that you suspected we would get a big update at some point towards the end of last year to tie into Sony's online TV business and of course to update to DLNA2 (I believe).

Do you have any revised ideas of when we are likely to get any of this? The PS4 media streaming app is ok to use but still has a lot to improve so i was curious.
 
No it isn't. That's literally what why the Playready protection levels are designed to cover.

But this is once again a case of putting two and two together and getting nine hundred and twelve.
The early descriptions for Playready DRM mention that it requires an embedded platform which is why I stated it SHOULD be embedded. My post from 3/2015 has an explanation of Playready protection levels.

The Playready versions below 3 that contains WMDRM10 for DTCP-IP is considered secure only for media 1080i and below. Playready 3 has no DTCP-IP streaming support for 1080i and below and only supports 1080P and above with Playready ND. The chart showing Playready 2, 2.5 and 3 was changed by Microsoft to only show 2.5 and 3. Playready 2 was pure software DRM but 2.5 has embedded hardware support. I suspect this means there is no longer a Playready porting kit 2 and pure software Playready DRM is no longer an option.

And yes there are security levels that Playready reports to apps but they are not directly tied to the Playready porting kit beyond you cant port Playready 3 to a platform without a TEE but you can port Playready 2.5 and 3 to a platform with a TEE to support WMDRM10 and Playready ND to support from 480i to 4K media.
 
Jeff, i have been following your research on updated media capabilities for a while now and i know you previously mentioned that you suspected we would get a big update at some point towards the end of last year to tie into Sony's online TV business and of course to update to DLNA2 (I believe).

Do you have any revised ideas of when we are likely to get any of this? The PS4 media streaming app is ok to use but still has a lot to improve so i was curious.
The reasoning is still the same as I mentioned above:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154557853&postcount=91 said:
Sony Delays in implementing Vidipath:

The current PS4 DLNA player is a placeholder for the final DLNA player. It does not support DRM and was built as a game mode app. The reason for the PS4 DLNA delay is the wait for Playready 3, HEVC and 4K blu-ray standards to be released. The reason the PS3 hasn't received any visible update to features is nearly the same; a wait for Playready, HTML5 <Video> ME (C-ENC format media extensions), HEVC and other standards to evolve. All these are part of what's required for Vidipath.
When Sony updates the browsers to support HTML5 <video> MSE EME we should get a huge media update. I'm nearly always wrong on any guesses as to when but my latest guess is with PS4 firmware 4.0 probably March-April 2016.
 

onQ123

Member
Has any media app been updated to use embedded Playready on the PS3? That won't happen until the native library supporting HTML5 <video> EME MSE in the browser is available to the app so we should see HTML5test saying that support for HTML5 <video> EME MSE is in the browser.

When that happens the app should drop in size because Playready embedded requires the APP use the embedded player, codec, encryption routines and keys at a minimum and likely the app can also use the PS3 software stack.

The PS4 enterprise framework for APPs seen in the PS4 bootlog uses Mono calling a webkit and native library (webMAF) framework which likely will also use the native library supporting HTML <video> MSE EME. So the PS4 browser will get the HTML5 <video> MSE EME update and a test using HTML5test should show that.

Further I'd speculate that the PS3 and PS4, because ALL Media is now run through the same DRM aware player, that DVR for Antenna TV and DVR for Cable TV using the Downloadable security scheme can then be implemented. This includes properly handling streaming media between platforms that also support Playready which is the basis of Vidipath and Microsoft calls the Playready Ecosystem. Playready allows for a domain (all Playready platforms in the same home) and DTCP-IP using WMDRM10 included in Playready porting kits versions under 3, has tests to insure the local in home network is limited.

I ask because in Setting >System > Intellectual Property Notices it says that the PS4 use PlayReady by Microsoft.
 
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