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News Spoilers All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

Clear

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Abby's story seems better because its more linear and has more strongly differentiated areas. Ellie's on the other hand is somewhat samey once she reaches Seattle, and the semi-open worldedness kills the pacing.

What's worse though is there's very little sense of urgency in Ellie's campaign, the tone is also a little incongruously light at a point in the story where Ellie's vengeance should be burning brightest. The whole point of her story arc is that she starts out hell-bent on avenging Joel's death, but eventually the accumulating body count of friend and foe alike gives her pause as to whether there's any point to it.

The problem is they kinda half-ass it; its evident that they are wary of making Ellie too unlikeable from the outset. but it undercuts the drama when her and Dina are bantering like teens on a day out. This is literally deadly serious stuff, far more so than the usual perimeter patrolling for infected. This is supposedly personal.

Like I say, I have a laundry list of issues with the storyline, but I wouldn't necessarily call it bad writing. They are trying to do something challenging and confronting for the audience, all within a medium that makes it technically difficult to do right.
 

iorek21

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Like I say, I have a laundry list of issues with the storyline, but I wouldn't necessarily call it bad writing. They are trying to do something challenging and confronting for the audience, all within a medium that makes it technically difficult to do right.
True, but the thing is, not even a novel would get it right if it was written in the same structure and with the same characters and dialogue, the only thing that would really help is the development of the protagonists’ psyche and motivations. However, I think that these are the only two things the writers really got right, so not it wouldn’t do much.

It’s just impossible to make a compelling story for Ellie if 80% of our time with her is hearing teen jokes, playing the guitar or scavenging shit just for the sake of it.

Abby’s part, on the other hand, FEELS like a true TLOU story
 

TissueBox

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The most poignant line in this entire game is Joel's reaffirmation at the cabin the night before he died.

"If somehow the Lord gave me a second chance at that moment...

"I would do it all over again."

Troy Baker's delivery and the facial animation on Joel there combine in a way that stirs something vested in us all.

'I would do it all over again.'

Doesn't matter that Ellie may hate him for the rest of her life, or that he'd die a horrible, lowly death, or that the lives they sustain as a result will be tainted by that decision. Doesn't matter if it was right, doesn't matter if it was wrong.

The implication is that, to the very end, even at his dying breath, even as he saw the pain it brought -- he regretted none of the actions he took that day.

Because on that day, Ellie was alive, instead of dead.

That is such a near-pitch-perfect moment, because over the course of the entire game, the justification of Joel's deeds are constantly being taken to court. Whether he was having second thoughts. How Ellie was now steadily being consumed by self-loathing and grief as a result. Abby being an innocent bystander and now forever father-less because of his murderous spree. Tommy's inability to move on.

And yet, after all of that, the arc presented here only doubles down on the whole thing.

No; Joel doesn't give a damn what TLOUPII thinks. As far as he's concerned, there was only one answer to the question of sacrificing Ellie's life or potentially dashing all hope for a cure to the world's fungal plague. And it was sacrificing nobody for anything. Joel was a hypocrite, he was selfish, he was manipulative -- and nobody was going to make him take that back. Not even Ellie. That was what she helped him to remember; how to believe in something.

How to love something.

How to love someone, deeply, unequivocally.

And Joel, in turn, in death, taught her how to forgive.

It is an ultimate affirmation of life, and a good, non-corny line. This game's 'Ok'.
 
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That damn sex scene with Abby did they really need to show it couldn’t they do what they did with Ellie and fade to black?
 

TissueBox

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Hey guys; you know how everyone is lovin' the soundtrack?

WELL THIS IS WHY:



Joking, of course. (Mostly.) But still, to generously paraphrase a certain Alef from the comments.

They totally shoulda ended with this playing in the credit roll over a Pixar-esque blooper reel.
 
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Nitty_Grimes

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Anyone who’s finished the game...

Are there cheats that unlock? Heard someone say there were but I don’t recall any of that.
 

TGO

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It’s also kinda dumb how Joel just straight up says, hi I’m Joel.
The whole scene was dumb, I was shaking my head all the way up to the house, I didn't even think anything was gonna happen straight away
It was literally Joel & Tommy saves her
And in within ten minutes she turns on him
Neil wanted a Glenn Rhee moment
But failed miserably, zero emotion and zero shock, more annoyed then anything with how stupid it was.
And this was from the same guy that directed the original, I shed a tear for that's games opening and for characters I didn't even know.
Yet the same character that I have grown attachment to in that game?
My thoughts was "how did he survive 20+ years being this stupid"
Oh yeah, TLOU Joel would actually run over a guy rather than find out if he really needs help
Don't get me wrong everything outside the story is great so far
And the acting is fantastic
But even Ellie, I don't think I like her in this
She's definitely not the same character
And I don't like how smug Dina is either 😂
And this is a little nitpick but Ellie's outfit is kinda shit compared to her original
 
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Collin

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Anyone who’s finished the game...

Are there cheats that unlock? Heard someone say there were but I don’t recall any of that.
no but there is accessibility settings that sometimes function a little like cheats, but you don’t have to beat to unlock them, they are there from the start
 
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joe_zazen

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The more I replay this game and reflect upon it, the more I am convinced that Abby's story was written first, and then they realized that Ellie should be included. Only that can explain the quality jump in writing between both parts (not that Abby's story is masterfully written, but it is much better than Ellie's).

Starting with characters: Jesse and Dina are nothing, literally nothing; they are bland, useless and add very little to the overall narrative and experience. You could remove them completely from the story and the results would be the same; no impact, no value. Banter between Ellie and those characters is also very bland, being composed basically of Tumblr/Twitter dialogues ("Look, how cool is that?? hahahahah"; "Wow, let's make a band xD"). Even Ellie herself is bland and develops very little; I get it that she's supposed to be emotionally unstable during Seattle 1-3 and Epilogue, but even during the Intro she's basically Tumblr Sadgirl, barely a shadow of Ellie in TLOU1.

In contrast, almost every character in Abby's story is essential or plays a key role in the events that occur. Remove Lev, Mel, Owen, Manny and even the fucking dog and you lose a great deal of the meaning and motivations for Abby's actions. Banter during exploration is also better in her story, the very first optional dialogue with Lev (the one Abby says that the dogs back in her camp learned how to play cards) is funnier and more clever than anything during Ellie's.

Set pieces and gameplay: If in the writting department Abby' story seems better, in gameplay/set pieces the contrast is even worse. Ellie's Seattle 1-3 feels like a bunch of optional God of War dungeons stitched together, very little revelance to the overall plot, one or two set pieces, and it drags for too long. However, Abby has 2 "boss" fights, has something like 5 set pieces, and most importantly, it feels shorter than Ellie's; it's just a much better overall experience.

TL;DR: Ellie's story feels like an afterthought and TLOU2 would've been greately improved if she was completely removed from the game (would also avoid most of the backlash surrounding the game).
rumours are that the game had to go through major rewrites to get to the point that play testers stopped hating abbey & her crew. It is possible part of that rewriting involved making Ellie worse.
 

Clear

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The whole scene was dumb, I was shaking my head all the way up to the house, I didn't even think anything was gonna happen straight away
It was literally Joel & Tommy saves her
And in within ten minutes she turns on him
Neil wanted a Glenn Rhee moment
But failed miserably, zero emotion and zero shock, more annoyed then anything with how stupid it was.
And this was from the same guy that directed the original, I shed a tear for that's games opening and for characters I didn't even know.
Yet the same character that I have grown attachment to in that game?
My thoughts was "how did he survive 20+ years being this stupid"
Oh yeah, TLOU Joel would actually run over a guy rather than find out if he really needs help
Don't get me wrong everything outside the story is great so far
And the acting is fantastic
But even Ellie, I don't think I like her in this
She's definitely not the same character
And I don't like how smug Dina is either 😂
And this is a little nitpick but Ellie's outfit is kinda shit compared to her original
Its 5 years on. People change.

The Joel we meet in the QZ at the start of the first game is unrecognizable compared to his pre-outbreak self, and the one we see at the end of the game is again somewhat different.

Also, since when was Joel infallible? I seem to recall him barely surviving getting impaled on a piece of rebar after getting jumped going through a door in the first game.

The setup is somewhat contrived but I don't believe egregiously so, its basically the sort of coincidence for narrative pace and brevity that you see in most fiction.

It isn't stupid because its all happening in a world where shit can go fatally south in a hurry, and coming straight on the heels of a pretty intense confrontation with infected, momentarily dropping his guard isn't that implausible.

Especially when the person who blindsides him has been armed throughout, and could have easily shot and killed him and Tommy on numerous occasions previously.
 

joe_zazen

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Hey I can't make threads, if anyone wants to who can, I think this would make for an interesting thread about industry corruption:
i think there was one.

I like this part
It’s not enough that the game is selling well, and that most reviews are positive; you can’t fall out of line with that general consensus, even as a joke, without having to worry about whether or not a publisher will be looking over your shoulder, or if hundreds of fans will blow up your social media. It is not an environment that is conducive to encouraging honest reviews or critical discussion, which is ultimately a disservice to the game itself.
the pressure for thought conformity amongst people right now is affecting everything.
 

Clear

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i think there was one.

I like this part

the pressure for thought conformity amongst people right now is affecting everything.
More like a sad reminder that shitty Vice Reviews and cynical muck-raking Patricia Hernandez articles are suddenly considered valuable when they support platform warring...

Talk about strange bed-fellows.
 

joe_zazen

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More like a sad reminder that shitty Vice Reviews and cynical muck-raking Patricia Hernandez articles are suddenly considered valuable when they support platform warring...

Talk about strange bed-fellows.
Platform warring? lol, no. When hard left media people start noticing the stifling atmosphere of thought policing, it is worth noticing.
 
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Clear

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Platform warring? lol, no. When hard left media people start noticing the stifling atmosphere of thought policing, it is worth noticing.
Since when is asking for feedback/clarification thought policing? Especially when the review is filled with choice epithets like "The Last of Us 2 is a game of squalid cruelty".

What a fucking pussy. (Zacny the reviewer I mean)
 
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I finally finished it but I'm not going to read 138 pages.

Abby is the better human but I'm happy Ellie finds her peace and can grow to become a better human.

I cried several times like a bitch. Overarching story might be not too great but I'm the guy for good moments anyways.

Gameplay is drawn out and once again not good; game could easily be half as long.

Interesting experience, great execution of the acting. Dina is best character.

Don't see the "agenda".

8.5/10 - the combat ruined at least one full point here.
 
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joe_zazen

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Since when is asking for feedback/clarification thought policing? Especially when the review is filled with choice epithets like "The Last of Us 2 is a game of squalid cruelty".

What a fucking pussy. (Zacny the reviewer I mean)
listen to him on the pod. He is a good guy and maybe the smartest reviewer in the biz. Zac on tlou2

with ploygon reviewer: https://maximumfun.org/episodes/triple-click/early-thoughts-on-the-last-of-us-part-ii/

With vice people, stats at 1 hour 55 minutes https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4ayx7d/we-discuss-every-game-announced-at-sony-ps5-event-waypoint-radio
 

Clear

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listen to him on the pod. He is a good guy and maybe the smartest reviewer in the biz. Zac on tlou2
No thanks. I highly doubt there's going to be a meeting of the minds based on his review. Frankly it reminded me of something from the 80's with its overly-offended tone.
 

dcx4610

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I loved the game and I like both Abby and Ellie. That said, I got strong Resident Evil 6 vibes playing Abby. It was like playing Chris in RE. Strong, big weapons, more arcadey style gameplay with the melee, goofy bosses like the Rat King. I just didn't like the tone of the game during her segments. I loved her poignant moments but the gameplay part felt a little dumb for as smart of a game as Last of Us should be.
 

Collin

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to the peoplel saying abbys body is unrealistic for a woman, here’s her body model:




 
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Jon Neu

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to the peoplel saying abbys body is unrealistic for a woman, here’s her body model:




A woman in the first world with access to steroids, hours and hours of free time and sleep, access to knowledge and the best equipment, with a very strict diet... Then it’s believable.

A woman in the apocalypse without steroids and with a burrito based diet, it’s just fantasy.
 

JohnnyFootball

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I've had a few days to think about this game and how I feel and now I will share my thoughts.

My personal views should give some context to my thoughts:
First off, I am sick and tired of the walking on egg shells PC-cancel culture. I think they are very toxic and vile and are not interested in equality, but on turning the tables in the opposite direction. However, I have grown equally wary of the opposite outrage where every story is seen as pandering if a female/gay/POC character makes an appearance. Many people on the opposite side are profiting off of the outrage instead of trying to shift it back to a more balanced position. Female/gay/POC individuals are parts of out society and I see no issue with them getting representation in games as long as it's not done in a way that feels forced. Obviously people will interpret "being forced" differently. I view it as being forced if it distracts from the overall story. That should set up what I am about to say I think.

I see this game being called The Last Jedi (TLJ) of games on the woke and anti-woke side. As somebody who HATED the TLJ, because it had a straight up bad incoherent illogical story with awful attempts of lame humor, needless subplots were put in for the seeming sole purpose of pushing an agenda. I am no fan of that film and consider it pure cinematic trash. That to me was an example of being forced where it got in the way of story telling aka subverting expectations. I am all for writers challenging and surprising the audience, but I use a restaurant analogy. I have no problem with a Hamburger restaurant taking a chance on a chicken sandwich. TLJ was the equivalent of expecting a steak and being served a shit sandwich.

The Last of Us II is by no means as bad as the TLJ. However, it was the equivalent of a Hamburger restaurant serving am overcooked and dried out chicken sandwich that was not unedible but by no means as good or as executed as it could have been. The area that this is different from TLJ, is that the story in TLoU2 for the most part made logical sense. Seeing Joel get killed off early on was very hard to see, but it's actually very logical story telling to believe that Joels decision at the end of the first game to massacre everyone (including the doctors) was going to have very serious consequences and that someone would be out there looking for revenge. That 100% makes sense. Now some have argued that Joel too easily believed Abby and was too easily duped, but I can at least buy that his journey in the first game might have softened him up a bit and also it was heat of the moment decision where both of them would die from the infected. It's one of those iffy things where I can see both sides. I can agree and sympathize that the way Joel was killed at the beginning rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and made you HATE Abby. I very much wanted her dead at that point.

Then Elle with Dina makes her way to Seattle. I had no issue with Dina and felt she was somewhat the heart of this game in a game that didn't really have a lot of it. Elle of course massacres everyone to get to Abby. A revenge story is not exactly original, but it works. Make no mistake you hated Abbys group and had no hesitation taking them out. It felt really good until the final moment at the aquarium where people needlessly die. It bothers me that TLOU2 is simply a world of psychopaths where nobody is willing to make even a little bit of effort to not turn every human encounter into a gun fight where everybody is firing their weapons to try and kill everyone. If survival is the goal, then bullets constantly flying shouldn't be an immediate first resort. But it is what it is.

Then the game makes it's gutsiest story telling decision and lets you play as Abby at a moment when you are hating her the most since she killed another character close to Elle. I have very mixed feelings about this and many people hated it. I didn't like it, but it's a decision where I admire the intent. The goal of playing as Abby was to show you that she also suffered a big loss and that her decision to get revenge also lead to some huge consequences and loss for her. She meets Yara and Lev. That subplot did feel somewhat tacked on and was a vehicle to try and garner support for Abby. It didn't work as well as it hoped and never really felt anything for her. On the whole, the entire Abby sequence is where the believeability went a little off the rails. The game goes through the trouble of showing you the very civilized side of the WLFs, but makes it very hard to stomach that they just become complete murdering psychopaths when they are on the outside. Owen and Mel's death were handled a little poorly. I felt that Elle could have been convinced to spare them. Then the fight with Elle where you play as Abby. Wow. Very gutsy and very hard to stomach and it was a fight I really wanted to lose, but the game wouldn't let me. Abby ends up letting Elle go.

That is where the game should have ended. Abby and Elle have suffered their losses, although at that point I felt Abby lost a lot more since Tommy and Dina were still alive, while Mel, Owen and Manbun dude got killed and at that point why continue.

The farm sequence was tedious and unfun. I was very pissed when Tommy showed up and still wanted to kill her and Abby. Elle then goes off to do it. A nice epilogue would have been Abby finding the Firefly survivors instead of being captured by the Rattlers.

In terms of pure gameplay, the Santa Barbara section was arguably the most fun as I felt the encounters were very well designed and was visually pleasing. Story-wise I was emotionally done. It was absurd to me that Elle was still trying to go after Abby and then we she does find her we are forced to once again fight, but Abby is ultimately spared. I honestly had no issue with letting Abby go. It just made no sense to kill her in that moment. But, it would have been much better if Elle had realized that Abby had suffered enough and just let her go without the unnecessary fight. I suppose that could have been one moment where you are allowed a choice.

Story wise the game is a 6/10 for me. The game experimented with a lot of ideas that didn't work as well as intended, but I can admire the attempt. I really do. He tried to show that in a revenge story nobody wins.

Gameplay-wise I give them game a 8/10. The game was very well designed and the gun play works for the type of game it tries to be where bullets need to be conserved and consequences to missing shots. The encounters were very well designed and it was a beautifully created world.

Overall, I will give it a 7/10. I was glad I played it, but I really have little interest in returning this world.

Like I say, I have a laundry list of issues with the storyline, but I wouldn't necessarily call it bad writing. They are trying to do something challenging and confronting for the audience, all within a medium that makes it technically difficult to do right.
Yeah, I'd say this sums it up.
 
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MrS

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A woman in the first world with access to steroids, hours and hours of free time and sleep, access to knowledge and the best equipment, with a very strict diet... Then it’s believable.

A woman in the apocalypse without steroids and with a burrito based diet, it’s just fantasy.
This is a dodgy take. Have you played the game? She is essentially in the army and her bedroom is next door to a huge fucking gym. All she does is work out and fight. Add to this the fact that she has made a monster of Joel in her mind and is determined to find ways to make her body a weapon to kill him, and you have great motivation for her dedication to fitness.

Burrito is a wonderful source of protein also.
 
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JohnnyFootball

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Oh! I left out my nitpicks:
1. The story about the infected and finding a cure is pretty much completely dropped in this game and it seems characters are a little more reckless around the Infected when a simple cut would likely lead to infection. It would have been nice to have learned a little more.

2.The buildings being in the shape they were in seemed a little strange. Many of them looked like an earthquake had run through them. How is it that all of these buildings are leaning sideways with missing floors? Did survivors just go into these buildings throw a party with dynamite and explosives? Causing that kind of damage takes a LOT of explosives. It should be noted that Seattle is near a major fault line making it ripe for a very major Earthquake. Did one happen prior to Elle and Dina's arrival and and I just missed it being mentioned in some notes? It's a very minor thing but it bugged me. Using falling Antennas to move between buildings was ridiculous. C'mon.
 

Woggleman

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They mentioned in both games that the military bombed some of the major cities in an attempt to kill the infected and in one of the levels the note mentioned dynamiting a building because it was infested.
 

TGO

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to the peoplel saying abbys body is unrealistic for a woman, here’s her body model:
She also 18?
Yeah with all the steroids which would had to start at early age and full gym equipment... umm no

Sara Connor build would be realistic
 
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Clear

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To be honest I think Abby's physical shape is something they should have addressed directly in the story.

Reading between the lines it seems evident her bulk and muscularity is a consequence/direct manifestation of her rage. She's a normally built girl until her father's death, and we see her gain mass over time via flashbacks, implying the way the need for retribution has distorted her both physically and emotionally.

If it were me, I'd have one of her crew make a pointed comment after Joel's death that now perhaps its time for "Abs" to train back down to "Abby". Literally noone else we encounter in the game looks like her, so I think it wouldn't feel intrusive or contrived to have it being a topic of some concern, or at least discussion amongst her peers/friends.

To be honest I think they could do with less subtlety in the character work! I mean there's nothing understated about the violence, its raw and in your face at all times, so why be so elliptical about character motivation?
 
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Okamiden

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Sara Connor build would be realistic
Also her build from the first trailer would be realistic. Don't understand why they needed to change her so much, unless because of woke agenda.
 

Okamiden

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This is a dodgy take. Have you played the game? She is essentially in the army and her bedroom is next door to a huge fucking gym. All she does is work out and fight. Add to this the fact that she has made a monster of Joel in her mind and is determined to find ways to make her body a weapon to kill him, and you have great motivation for her dedication to fitness.

Burrito is a wonderful source of protein also.
Do you understand how human body works? There is a ceiling to the amount of body mass person could gain no matter how many years straight he/she would train. Women's ceiling is a lot lower due to substantially lower amount of testosterone they possess. Every sane person knows it, unless they want to make a statement when writing such a character.
 

vpance

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C Clear Agreed. They should have had a cutscene or 2 with her working out like mad or something.

Honestly Abby is about as Mary Sue as you can get in a post-apoc story. Everything about her and what you play through is made for you to like her. You're damn near forced to. And you play the most climactic moments as her, thus making you feel like Ellie's part was the actual sidestory.
 

GribbleGrunger

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I do not believe the same people made this game as the first game. Everything about this game is sub par compared to the masterpiece that was TLOU. There isn't a single stand out moment from this game. I'm seeing people struggle on YT to try and create the same enthusiasm the first game received but failing badly. Once people get over their grief, it's going to be seen as the worse game in Sony's library. Gameplay is irritating and stealth is impossible. The characters are boring, including Ellie and Joel and that's because the writing is dreadful. The story is a train wreck from start to finish and I felt no emotion throughout the whole experience. By FAR NDs worse game. I'm belated to this section because I was determined to give it a second chance with my second playthrough, but even with everything upgraded, it plays no differently. I do not like ANY of the weapons and hate my favourite weapon from the first game, the bow. I will play it for half and hour and then just turn it off. It isn't entertaining, isn't enriching, isn't meaningful, isn't enthralling and isn't worth your time. The most disappointing game of this generation. In fact, it's the most disappointing game I have ever played. If I'd have bought this from retail, I'd have sold it before I finished.

Yep, you guessed it: I hate it :) 4/10 (graphics and animations are great)
 
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Umbral

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Your arguments boil down to entirely nitpick pedantic points , as I illustrated if you have issues with those points you can find them in then first game or near any plot in any game if you want to nit pick enough.

And if you don't actually understand how pregnancy sickness works and are relying on one person in a videogame to illustrate it for you then you probably need some help outside of videogames. And Mel left the stadium during the game to be transported to the frontline hospital. Why didn't she plan for the unplanned ambush!?!? :lollipop_anxious_sweat:

In any case I suggest you watch this helpful video


For example . A real plot hole is like Batman blowing up cars with people in them while the movie tells you he never kills

A real plot hole is not: how did Tommy, Ellie and Dina get back to Jackson if they didn't explicitly show it
We’ve talked about this butterdick before. He’s not as smart as he thinks he is.
 

Umbral

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I love the argument that the writers are just trying to manipulate the audience.

Yes. that is what stories are.
writers intentionally put characters into situations to create an emotional response.

So many of the "bad writing" criticisms/nitpicking can be applied to TLOU1.
-so joel's teenage daughter died and now he has to escort another teenage girl. so heavy handed!
-tess successfully survived for all these years and finally gets infected now??
-Bill is gay!? fucking SJW pandering.
-in winter, joel recovered just in time for him to rescue ellie? bad writing!
-blatant emotional manipulation by making it so the cure requires ellie's death.
-no cure? whats even the point of the game? it's just a pointless failed sidequest.
-joel shows no remorse for killing the doctor or marlene. what a psychopath.

I'm curious what these people consider a good videogame story.
Good writing does its best to make sure you don’t notice it. Bad writing has a fucking neon sign pointing to it.
 
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Clear

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I do not believe the same people made this game as the first game. Everything about this game is sub par compared to the masterpiece that was TLOU. There isn't a single stand out moment from this game. I'm seeing people struggle on YT to try and create the same enthusiasm the first game received but failing badly. Once people get over their grief, it's going to be seen as the worse game in Sony's library. Gameplay is irritating and stealth is impossible. The characters are boring, including Ellie and Joel and that's because the writing is dreadful. The story is a train wreck from start to finish and I felt no emotion throughout the whole experience. By FAR NDs worse game. I'm belated to this section because I was determined to give it a second chance with my second playthrough, but even with everything upgraded, it plays no differently. I do not like ANY of the weapons and hate my favourite weapon from the first game, the bow. I will play it for half and hour and then just turn it off. It isn't entertaining, isn't enriching, isn't meaningful, isn't enthralling and isn't worth your time. The most disappointing game of this generation. In fact, it's the most disappointing game I have ever played. If I'd have bought this from retail, I'd have sold it before I finished.

Yep, you guessed it: I hate it :) 4/10 (graphics and animations are great)
Sorry you feel that way, I just cannot agree though.


If you actually liked the first game, how could you not at least be impressed by the Joel/Ellie flashback that closes her Seattle Day 1? That sequence is fucking masterful, from the first reveal of the dinosaur through to Joel's present of the Apollo audio in the capsule.

And then there's the second part of the flashback with the slow build to revealing "There is no light" for the lost Fireflies.

I have an issue insofar as this sequence is actually thematically more relevant than the first half of the flashback, if it were me I'd have separated these two parts into two separate flashbacks as I feel the back-to-back timing undersells the impact of both highspots.

Seriously, this is as good as anything in the first game.
 

Umbral

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May 7, 2020
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I agree. I actually think there's a third part to this tale but it proved too much for the game. There does seem to be something left out, possibly DLC?

I heard something before about the Seraphites being immune (which is why they have scars on their faces, done with an infected knife) and I was especially drawn to the female character that gets killed during the hanging scene with Abby -- as she seemed uncommonly well developed for such an incidental character. I genuinely thought that they were introducing the final villain there (before they killed her).

Also to allude to a matriarchal 'mother' character you never get to meet, seems like a massive dead end to me -- as you said the Scars are a big waste of time and none of that works.

There were rumours of Ellie's mother cropping up somewhere, something that Druckman never discounted (unlike the other rumours) so I'm guessing that could have been a potential plot?

Ellie's finds her real mother and a group of immune people (her tribe). She then has to make the choice between warring camps (Eventually letting Abby live when everyone has been massacred and she realises there are no sides to take).
She’s the only named Seraphite I believe. Her name is Emily and she’s a model in the model viewer.
 
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Umbral

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Its 5 years on. People change.

The Joel we meet in the QZ at the start of the first game is unrecognizable compared to his pre-outbreak self, and the one we see at the end of the game is again somewhat different.

Also, since when was Joel infallible? I seem to recall him barely surviving getting impaled on a piece of rebar after getting jumped going through a door in the first game.

The setup is somewhat contrived but I don't believe egregiously so, its basically the sort of coincidence for narrative pace and brevity that you see in most fiction.

It isn't stupid because its all happening in a world where shit can go fatally south in a hurry, and coming straight on the heels of a pretty intense confrontation with infected, momentarily dropping his guard isn't that implausible.

Especially when the person who blindsides him has been armed throughout, and could have easily shot and killed him and Tommy on numerous occasions previously.
The problem is that this is never demonstrated to the player that he has softened. We spent no time with Joel except at the opening scene and the ride back to Jackson through the pile of people he and Tommy killed. We get a little time with him as Abby where he saves her and shows us he hasn’t lost a step as he and Tommy waste a bunch of infected. That’s it. As far as we know, he’s the same Joel.

This is where the feeling of inconsistency in character comes from. They never show him making a mistake or doing something soft as a result of his life in Jackson. He’s Joel from the first game as far as everyone is concerned.
 

Umbral

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This is a dodgy take. Have you played the game? She is essentially in the army and her bedroom is next door to a huge fucking gym. All she does is work out and fight. Add to this the fact that she has made a monster of Joel in her mind and is determined to find ways to make her body a weapon to kill him, and you have great motivation for her dedication to fitness.

Burrito is a wonderful source of protein also.
You’re missing the biological aspect. Apparently nobody at Naughty Dog hits the gym or nobody had the balls to bring it up. It’s hard to fault people too much, media and academia have been bullshitting people about sex differences for years now. Dudes the size of the Seraphite Brute would be running shit, if we’re being realistic.

She can workout all she wants every day. She’s not getting that big without PEDs. If they showed her using steroids in the game I’d have zero issues with it. They don’t though. They put it out there like it’s in any way realistically achievable naturally.

They could have still modeled her on that crossfitter, but have the 3D modeler knock about 15-20% off her mass and it would look more believable.
 
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GribbleGrunger

Dreams in Digital
Oct 12, 2012
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Sorry you feel that way, I just cannot agree though.


If you actually liked the first game, how could you not at least be impressed by the Joel/Ellie flashback that closes her Seattle Day 1? That sequence is fucking masterful, from the first reveal of the dinosaur through to Joel's present of the Apollo audio in the capsule.

And then there's the second part of the flashback with the slow build to revealing "There is no light" for the lost Fireflies.

I have an issue insofar as this sequence is actually thematically more relevant than the first half of the flashback, if it were me I'd have separated these two parts into two separate flashbacks as I feel the back-to-back timing undersells the impact of both highspots.

Seriously, this is as good as anything in the first game.
Nothing sticks, man. It's uninteresting and not even close to the first game. Like I said, I do not believe this game is made by the same team. The writing is nothing like the first game. Not even close. I played the first game 12 times and talked about it for years because it had depth. That very last scene in the first game had more meaning and more power than the entirety of this game. This game I'm likely to only finish once and have nothing whatsoever to say about the story. Every scene, every character, every scenario and even the incidental conversations in the first game, helped build either the story, the characters or depth. This game is pseudo intellectual with God awful conversations, trivial to the point of boredom. No characters evolved a jot, no story lines expressed anything of interest, and the world feels lifeless. For me, analysing any meaning in this game is wasted effort.

To sum up this game: We got a 9 year old child, sat on a curb, lighting up a tab end he'd found in the gutter, belching, farting and swearing because he thought it made him look grown up.
 
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