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[KevinKeene]

So much for my 3 month hiatus I asked a friend to send Evilore a pm to unban me earlier, thx to both. Kinda embarrassing, but let me explain:

I've mentioned in my goodbye-thread that I'm suffering from depression. I'm fighting it and it's all going in a good direction atm. However, there's one kinda big thing that truly bogs me down and it keeps getting worse. That is: politics and the course of the world.

I had decided for myself before that nothing matters, that because you'll die eventually, it doesn't matter what becomes of this world. So everything going down the drain? Whatever. But witnessing what's going on onthe political stage made me reassess my stance. I won't claim that my mind has fundamentally changed, it hasn't. But what happened is that it made me wanna take action, if only so much as posting on NeoGAF. So what was the tippping point?

As a German, I just went through the dumbest, most unnecessary 'spectacle' that ever happened in German government politics. CSU Seehofer started a bs egomaniacal macho campaign where he announced that he'd send back refugees even without chancellor Merkel's legitimation. This resulted in 3 weeks of Merkel tiptoeing, trying to hold together the union of her CDU and Seehofer's CSU (think of it as a main republican party and a smaller, locally lead republican party who have always worked together). All the while Seehofer and his colleagues throw around insulting remarks, stuff like 'I won't allow getting fired by the wan I made chancellor!'. Stuff happened (Seehofer even said to quit, then un-quit half a day later) and then 3 weeks later it was over. Both Merkel and Seehofer acted as if they found an appropriate solution (they didn't) and now their parties are all 'let's talk about content, not positions'. Yeah, right, clearly that's what you care about when you risk imploding the government for 3 weeks! Cunts.

But that's not all: in case you haven't heard about it, the biggest rightwing-extreme terrorism case just ended a couple days ago. The so-called NSU murdered 10 people many years ago, now Beate Zschäpe got prison for life, some helpers got also multi-year sentences. But: Pretty much everyone knows that there's more to it, that many involved people got off scot-free. The kicker is: Some secret files got locked away for a planned 120 years before they can be published - WTF. The whole thing is either a massive deflection or it indeed contains important information about involved parties, possibly high-standing government people. But let's just lock it away until everyone alive today is dead!

Then there's, of course, all these stupid European neighbors following rightwing-politicians. Hungary, Italy, Austria, and more. Instead of bringing the world together, acting humanely and care for others, these governments are shutting themselves in, demonize foreigners, and cause each other so much trouble with their one man-shows. Worst of all, though, is Turkey's Erdogan, who apparently found some German history books and tries his best to repeat 1933 in Osmanian fashion. He's now in absolute power, 18,000 people were imprisoned just a week or two ago for basically being opposed to him. And Turks, especially those not living in Turkey, VOTED for him. Why are you people so dumb, so ... bad?! You enjoy the best of democracy living in Germany et all, but you help turning your home land into an islamistic dictatorship? And especially younger Turks are doing so apparently. What's wrong with you?!

And of course there's Trump ...

Sigh ...

But that's just one side. Then there's another: The authoritarian left (auth left) which also includes current day feminists. I made the big mistake of reading on resetera 'for fun'. Well, it's not fun, it's freaking scary to see so many deluded, ignorant, hateful people condensed in one place, believing THEY are correct. Especially morally correct. Omg no. The ArenaNet-thread is the most shocking piece of evidence to show how bad, if not plain evil, these people are. An unassuming, supportive fan and even contributing member of the community had some polite feedback for a female writer of the dev team, she out of nowhere attacks and insults him, she's fired for it, the end. That's what it should have been, right? But of course not! LET'S MAKE IT ALL ABOUT GENDER. BECAUSE WHY THE FUCK NOT. What followed is a 60+ page (ongoing) thread full of people trying their hardest to explain why she didn't do anything wrong, why she's actually the victim, and why the fan is a mansplaining, alt right GamerGate pig. There were some users opposing all that, but take a guess what happened to them. Exactly.
Countless people have been fired over their social media comments, but screw them, they were men or/and of a politicam affiliation I dislike, so that was okay. But the SAME thing happening to a WOMAN and it's unforgivable. It MUST be part of a larger problem. Clearly ArenaNet only fired her to appease evil GG. Clearly the years of online harassment dudn't leave Price a choice in how to behave towards a consumer. And, of course, it'd ArenaNet's fault for not having a written policy that says 'Do not insult our customers or you're fired'. OF COURSE.

Then there's the older stories of them pushing for censorship in Japanese games, their ridiculous identity politics and so much more. I watched a (greatly satisfying) video of Steven Crowder and even if you dislike him (I kinda do, because his views on healthcare are ridiculous), it's a great video where he confronts people who threatened him and incited others to act violently against him (slashing his car's tires, blowing it up, etc). It's just unreal how unhinged these auth left people are and they still feel that they're in the right. Wth! These people act on the principle of 'you're either 100% for me or 100% against me'. If you agree with them on 99 issues, but disagree on, say, abortion, you're literal Hitler - despite so much agreement otherwise. It's mindbaffelingly stupid. But for reasons, these people hold SO MUCH power on social media. They keep getting those they dislike fired by organizing hate mobs and doing targeted harassment (the irony is dying from laughter at this point, I know). They're a minority, but vocal enough to get publishers like Nintendo to censor their games - games most of them wouldn't buy either way. As silly as it may sound, but Samus' boob size-reduction in Smash Ultimate left a bitter taste in my mouth, simply because I'm asking myself 'why was that decided?'. But it's not just games. The auth left demands classic books to be changed, pretty much the 2018-equivalent of last century's book burnings. I don't even wanna go into the whole LGBT-rudiculousness, especially regarding transgender people. Do not misinterpret this: I fully tolerate them, I feel sympathy for their fate, but I also think that they just don't deserve all this focus. You don't put the world's politics in jeopardy because a tiny fraction of the population (that unites online and thus gives the fake impression of existing in huge numbers) feels sad about wrong pronouns, bathroom issues and beimg criticized for their participation in sports. Oh, and of course everybody is a bigot who refuses to date trans women. Of course!

-------------------

I need to come to an end, so let's make a cut here. To make long matters short: As somebody who wants to see the world become a better place, I feel caught between alt right fearmongers and auth left fascists. I used to call myself left/liberal/libertarian/whathaveyou, but ultimately I'm a human being with individual perspectives on individual issues. Screw categories, screw extremism. I want to see changes so that most everybody can live a happier life.

Leaving refugees to die in the Mittelmeer? Nota happier world.
Letting trans women trivialize women's sports? Not a happier world.
Harassment on social media, no matter against whom? Not a happier world.
Censoring fiction? Not a happier world.
Assuming all men are potential pedo criminals which results in a lack of male kindergarteners? Not a happier world.
Marginalizing false-rape accusations? Not a happier world.
Raping women? Not a happier world.
Etc.

So what can we do? Most importantly, I think we *can* do something. And it's actually pretty easy: Have the new NeoGAF become an active, well-visited place of discussion! Show the world by example that a place where all kinds of (non hateful) opinions come together is a GREAT place.

NeoGAF has already gotten much better since the incident, but it still needs to do more. This is only my opinion, but I think we ought to achive some more framework. What I mean is that we'll have a number recurring threads that we maintain for the long run. I will start myself by looking into creating Media-Create threads again beginning with next week. We need that kind of thread made asap on Wednesday when the new numbers are released. Similarly, OldGaf used to have threads like 'this month's releases: what are you playing in July?' We had a weightloss-thread. A movie-thread. A football-thread. And so on. I know it might sound like a chore, but please think about taking responsibility of any such thread (it's really not much more than creating it ) and just do it! Bamm, and NeoGAF has back some of its structure and pseudo-service. Only having random discussion topics is nice, too, but I feel we need to re-establish certain threads that simply used to be part of NeoGAF's identity (of the good parts of it!).

This is what we can do. Current NeoGAF is fantastic in how diverse it is in regards to opinions. Now let's show that to the world. If we don't, the bad people will win, because they're loud and obnoxious and won't stop. Let's be a modern 2018 community that proves all the reseteras, Kotakus, Polygons etc. wrong. We care about creating a happier world, we don't lie in articles, we don't condone violence. That's for them. That's why they're bad. Let's be better.

In order to start anew, I want to disclose that I had an account on NeoGAF before. It was banned 15 years ago by Amirox, because I criticized Okami. I was admittedly an annoying Nintendo-fanboy back then. I hope admitting this won't get me banned, I'm not who I was 15 years ago. If I'm banned, though, that's on me. Then I still hope you guys and girls try your hardest to keep nurturing this place, because it's the best shot we have to bring some direly needed anti-extremism to the world

Let's do this.


PS: Oh my, this became way too long. Sorry

 

[Spheyr]

The alt right is the future of politics.

 

[TheMikado]

The alt right is the future of politics.

I see the optimism of a better world died in the first post.

Unless that actually is optimism.

F*ck it, I can’t tell anymore.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Yep, that's what I've been trying to do with fellow members here. Just being open-minded and having discussions with others while not trying to lash out or hold opinions in higher regard than the other person's humanity.

Also, videogames. People need to take a step back from Off-Topic and invest some time into our actual videogame topics. Not because they're "more important" but because it can be a neutral, friendly meeting ground between people who might have contrary viewpoints in Off-Topic. The only caveat is that they need to leave their politics behind (unless the topic is clearly about it, like the ArenaNET thread) and focus on discussing things with their fellow gamers.

 

[Coffe Time]

Calm down. No one over there is evil for there beliefs. Some people a dumb as fuck, but not evil. Just like many people here are dumb as fuck, but not evil. You seem like you should still take a break from the internet and from th cross forum drama.

 

[kischine]

Hey, welcome back.

I feel you, I guess I'm the same as being in the middle and watching the world burn in frustration. But I think there's nothing you can do about it, focus on your individual life, focus on making things work for you. You can't change the world, and letting these problems affect your life is really harmful.

Do what I do, don't bother with those problems, avoid these threads and focus on your life and what makes you happy. I know it's easier said than done, but you need discipline for you own well being.

 

[luigimario]

I see the optimism of a better world died in the first post.

Unless that actually is optimism.

F*ck it, I can’t tell anymore.

Hahaha with Spheyr , that is likely him being optimistic. Atleast he's honest about it though! The little scamp!

 

[BANGS]

You prolly should stop worrying about national/world politics and just focus on governing yourself... Local government always has a much bigger impact on your life than larger government... and the most local government you can get is how you govern yourself...

 

[BlueAlpaca]

I think you're making too much of a videogame board. The world is garbage and will continue to be so for a long time. Maybe by the end of the century as genetically enhanced humans take over the world it'll be better, who knows, but most of us here would be dead by then. As BANGS said, you should stop worrying about the world and focus on yourself. Good luck with your depression battle.

 

[KevinKeene]

Hey, welcome back.

I feel you, I guess I'm the same as being in the middle and watching the world burn in frustration. But I think there's nothing you can do about it, focus on your individual life, focus on making things work for you. You can't change the world, and letting these problems affect your life is really harmful.

Do what I do, don't bother with those problems, avoid these threads and focus on your life and what makes you happy. I know it's easier said than done, but you need discipline for you own well being.

You prolly should stop worrying about national/world politics and just focus on governing yourself... Local government always has a much bigger impact on your life than larger government... and the most local government you can get is how you govern yourself...

I think you're making too much of a videogame board. The world is garbage and will continue to be so for a long time. Maybe by the end of the century as genetically enhanced humans take over the world it'll be better, who knows, but most of us here would be dead by then. As BANGS said, you should stop worrying about the world and focus on yourself. Good luck with your depression battle.

First of all, thx for the kind words, I appreciate it.

However, I disagree with the 'focus on yourself, forget about the world'. That's what most people seem to do and see where it lead us.

My OP might have been too centered around full-on politics, but that's not all. When you say 'focus on yourself', that's what I'm doing here. Because I don't want to wake up one day and live in a world where every little insignificance triggers a livelihood-threatening lawsuit (too late?). I want to live in a world where neither women are marginalized nor white men demonized. And, with regards to out number one hobby, I don't want video games to be a censored messed - that's one thing about the 90s we don't need back

Those things and many more relate to my own life. And yet we let communities like resetera dictate social media. For what's worth, I've had it and I'd like to nurture a 'new' discussion culture where we don't deal in extremes and apply common sense. I think most of you would agree about that. But that won't work if we're not a tiny bit more vocal about. I've seen it too many times: non-crazy people are all chill and say 'whatever, just leave them be'. But leaving them be is the wrong approach here as bad people keep making our all hobby their's exclusively.

I'm not asking for anything tremendous, don't worry, you can keep sitting on your comfy couches ;p But next time the auth left demands somebody fired or a game be censored, be just as vocal. Don't take it quietly. We're the ones buying the games they hate after all.

 

[Spheyr]

I think you're making too much of a videogame board. The world is garbage and will continue to be so for a long time. Maybe by the end of the century as genetically enhanced humans take over the world it'll be better, who knows, but most of us here would be dead by then. As BANGS said, you should stop worrying about the world and focus on yourself. Good luck with your depression battle.

The world is awesome, open your eyes and look around.

 

[Catphish]

I hear you, and I understand your sentiment but, brother, I gotta tell you, on the long list of the things that make a difference in the world, posting on an internet forum isn't even in the same town as that list.

There's one thing that shapes the world we live in: Power. Either you have it, or you don't. I don't. I have ideas, I can debate, I can talk until I'm blue in the face, and be right the whole time, and it amounts to fuck all, because I don't have the kind of power that changes the world.

Sure, I can have a limited impact on the world. Sharing my ideas might have some power behind them but, at the end of the day, am I willing to go to prison or be killed to directly challenge the true forces of bullshit that keep the planet mired in its perpetually fucked-up state? Nope. And if that's not what you're prepared to do, then I think you overestimate your prominence in the equation.

 

[KevinKeene]

I hear you, and I understand your sentiment but, brother, I gotta tell you, on the long list of the things that make a difference in the world, posting on an internet forum isn't even in the same town as that list.

There's one thing that shapes the world we live in: Power. Either you have it, or you don't. I don't. I have ideas, I can debate, I can talk until I'm blue in the face, and be right the whole time, and it amounts to fuck all, because I don't have the kind of power that changes the world.

Sure, I can have a limited impact on the world. Sharing my ideas might have some power behind them but, at the end of the day, am I willing to go to prison or be killed to directly challenge the true forces of bullshit that keep the planet mired in its perpetually fucked-up state? Nope. And if that's not what you're prepared to do, then I think you overestimate your prominence in the equation.

When someone says on twitter 'thing should be censored' you can tweet 'no it should not'. When someone says on twitter 'person should be fired' you can tweet 'no, he/she should not'.

It might not look much, but it's actually really powerful as the crazies proved plenty of times. If enough people decide to be vocal about something, it holds power. Unfortunately, too many people with common sense keep quiet, while the worst people dominate twitter and co..

 

[Vicetrailia]

Whomever best entertains dominates on twitter, whatever that may be.

 

[BaitZaDust]

Resetera is like an ex that you guys can't move on from. Let her go.

 

[King of Foxes]

I'm not reading all that shit

 

[BaitZaDust]

Imagine having an emotional investment in the breast size of a character in a fighting game for children. Did the SJWs also convince sakurai to reduce snakes ass size? I thought pushing homosexuality was part of the Agenda ®

 

[Snoopycat]

Instead of worrying about the internet go out and do some good for your community. You won't make the world better by arguing with people on forums. If you want a better world, start in your own backyard and go volunteer.

 

[Jesus Carbomb]

NewGAF is chill if you avoid the backslapping, chest thumping political topics. Most of the people in those threads are harmless little pussys anyway so it's hardly worth getting worked up over.

Resetera is like an ex that you guys can't move on from. Let her go.

I mean when you have a GAF: OT dedicated to stalking Resetera you just kinda have to expect some of it to spillover. I'll occasionally get a glimpse of what's going on in that thread and I'm almost instantly creeped out by how obsessed these individuals are.

 

[Breakage]

Cut back on the amount of news you consume. There's not much you can do about the things you hear or read about.

 

[Gander]

Exactly, the people that have common sense need to push back on the bullies of this world.

At all levels school, corporate, political. They push this narrative of bury your head in the sand and let it happen.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

 

[Grinchy]

Cut back on the amount of news you consume. There's not much you can do about the things you hear or read about.

Yeah, I feel like obsessing so much on every little story out there is the reason why some people have this "the world is doomed and I am the only one doing something about it" mentality.

 

[Breakage]

Yeah, I feel like obsessing so much on every little story out there is the reason why some people have this "the world is doomed and I am the only one doing something about it" mentality.

Yeah, recently I've just been avoiding the news by not turning on the TV or radio as often, and I've noticed that I feel better. I think once you realise that you can't do much beyond getting angry about most of things in the news you learn to be comfortable with tuning out.

For example, here in England at the moment, the news is wall to wall Trump and all the media commentary is based on every little thing he says and how it relates to Brexit, the "special relationship" etc – ie just speculation on a bunch of comments to get the masses worked up. What else can the average person do about Trump's comments beyond getting angry? Absolutely nothing. But British radio and TV hosts here continue to devote hours to "Things Trump Said".

A lot of the news is just full of things to send people into fits of pointless outrage.

 

[Spheyr]

Exactly, the people that have common sense need to push back on the bullies of this world.

At all levels school, corporate, political. They push this narrative of bury your head in the sand and let it happen.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Agreed. Push back against the feminists and Democrats

 

[Mochilador]

I feel you, OP. These kind people don't seem to have common sense (auth left is pretty crazy and so is the alt right).
Let's make this place open for discussions, different perspectives.

 

[i_am_ben]

You know what creates a better world? Better healthcare, education, and meritocracy.

I swear NeoGAF seems to prioritise hatred of feminism over all else. It is bizarre.

 

[kischine]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Except that in reality there's no good or evil, things are relative and complex. When you simplify a problem you are just as bad as the other extremists.

However, I disagree with the 'focus on yourself, forget about the world'. That's what most people seem to do and see where it lead us.

Also an important note here, I think most people are not saying that everyone should do nothing, but IF it affects you negatively, if you can't handle fighting for what you think it's right, or if you are not in a good moment of your life, then don't bother with things you can't control, that's kinda obvious and the point most people here were probably making when they said that you shouldn't focus on political issues when you are so depressed and affected by it.

Take your time, don't burn yourself out for nothing, that's the point. When you are dealing with real problems in your life you can't just try and fix the whole world.

Anyway, it's good to have you back.

 

[FloatingIslands]

You're right op but I think posting only on social media won't do much. You have to speak up publicly too. As another poster said, if you are willing to die for what you believe, then you are going to get the power to change, or at least you will die defending those ideals.

 

[Mochilador]

You know what creates a better world? Better healthcare, education, and meritocracy.

I swear NeoGAF seems to prioritise hatred of feminism over all else. It is bizarre.

This is a discussion forum. Being able to have a open discussion is the first step for a better place.

 

[Dontero]

The alt right is the future of politics.

Define alt-right first.
Because every-time i hear it someone has completely different picture than another.

Frankly speaking right now i don't even know what that means anymore as left oriented types just call everything that is not super left alt-right. You are pro-gay but not pro-trans ? Alt right. Capitalist ? Alt-right. Everything that doesn't get same shade is branded alt-right. In that category they have Jordan Peterson left oriented guy and Hitler.

At this point i believe it is just therm left describes anyone who isn't them value wise AND can actually use computer and social networks which scares shit out of them because until that point they believed that their own bubble set the standards for discussion and is only valid point of view.

Then there's, of course, all these stupid European neighbors following rightwing-politicians. Hungary, Italy, Austria, and more. Instead of bringing the world together, acting humanely and care for others, these governments are shutting themselves in, demonize foreigners, and cause each other so much trouble with their one man-shows. Worst of all, though, is Turkey's Erdogan, who apparently found some German history books and tries his best to repeat 1933 in Osmanian fashion. He's now in absolute power, 18,000 people were imprisoned just a week or two ago for basically being opposed to him. And Turks, especially those not living in Turkey, VOTED for him. Why are you people so dumb, so ... bad?! You enjoy the best of democracy living in Germany et all, but you help turning your home land into an islamistic dictatorship? And especially younger Turks are doing so apparently. What's wrong with you?!

And of course there's Trump ...

Incredible simplification that probably you got mostly from left oriented clickbait media.

Hungary - Orban isn't amazing person but is not dictator or tried to be one. When people comment on him, they point out his nationalism which is supposed to be bad thing in modern world. Orban got his "sticker" because he opposed EU on some societal issues and thanks to absolute majority he made changes in constitution that globalists didn't like, like trying to tax foreign companies. Obviously his anti-economic migrant agenda didn't help. But you can't box Hungary or Orban like so menace. It is simply wrong picture. People in hungary are not stupid as you might think and love freedom more than anyone else after communism. Reason Orban does a lot of changes is because they support him A LOT to point where he has enough votes to change constitution as his party see fit. Saying that hungary is some kind of dictatorship or tries to be one or trying to point out Hungary as some sort of declining democracy filled with right wing (nazi type) people is fucking hilarious and by saying that you only show ignorance and your world on subject is not worth a grain of salt.

Poland - You didn't mention it but i assume you also meant that considering it is now on media target. Another beauty, i live in Poland and i don't like current ruling party but i can't unsee how media has a goal to paint poland for clicks. The idea that PIS and currect PIS leader is some sort of dictator in making is fucking hilarious, at best you can call them fucking idiots with supple amount of corruption but you can't call them traitors/dictators and so on because whole group just isn't. They are pro-EU they just don't agree on vision some sort of federalist have in creating some sort of one EU nation and they oppose that. And there are good reasons for that too if you are willing to actually listen to arguments.

Austria - Can't really comment on that but from what i heard they just oppose economic migrants period. It is not "unhumane" nor it is scandal or something. At least if you are normal human being and not consider anything to specific kind of left as abhorent.

Turkey - This is much much much more complex problem to tackle on and it is VERY hard to even properly answer what is their actual position in reference to modern western democracies like Germany. To understand situation and WHY people vote for Enrogan even living in nations like germany or France after tasting "freedom" you need to first look at history of turkey. First of all your idea that Turkey is western like nation is simply WRONG. First of the big issues. "Islam". When people talk about islam they talk about it from position of US muslims or some highly educated ones who mostly lost their culture to enlightment (like so most of people in western oriented cultures). What people don't undestand is that Islam is not just faith. IT is both faith AND political institution. Islam doesn't just tell you how to live with god but also how to run nation, what to do with unbelievers, court system and other parts that are important in running nation not just praying. Second important part is geopolitical situation and history. Modern day Turkey and image of it you have in your head is mostly due to one man: Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. He was first president of modern Turkey and basically laid down whole design for modern nation if you look at his bio from wiki you would see that dude was like 50 years ahead of everyone at the time in thinking. Why it is a problem ? Because while he was monument of Turkey his policies were not exactly well liked by people. They were fine as long as this monument person hold on in power because as strong leader he showed a way to people and prosperity, as he died suddenly people realized that policies he put in place directly go against many facets of muslim/turkish culture. This meant that people started to change policies to be more like people want nation to be, more religious, less proggressive etc. and this is where you hit reset button. Military coup. You see Attaturk created system in such way that Army was put in place to fix things if stupid people decided to change things toward ismalic system. And army up until recently actually hold on to that. So you had this pendulum of people who want different nation and army hitting reset button every now and then removing goverment from power and placing people who will fix things and this went on up until recently. Enter Endrogan. Under his tenure Turkey saw IMMENSE economical progress and people see him as something more than just another politician. Just as before people wanted nation that more reflects their culture (islam) and thus Endrogan does what they want and gives them hope of strong islam Turkey power. Now this is crucial point and basically start of this weird Endrogan is new Caliph as painted in media. So just as i explained someone in army had same ideas as their predecessors and they wanted to do a coup but unlike before they didn't have support of whole army and basically they only controlled few units, coup failed. Which means there had to be consequences and party that wanted to do it and anyone supporting them had to be "purged" which would be logical in any western society when army tried to make a coup. Add to that war on southern border in syria and string of terrorist attacks and you would see why Endrogan is so highly supported by people. Those 3 huge events rallied up people for him + his view that Turkey should represent themselves not some western nation is why he is so popular. They real question is what will happen next. If you go by media they will say they will became russian puppets and caliphate in next 10 years or something. but like most of media nowdays that fired most of legit proffesionals and hired young blogger they are talking out of their ass. Currently it is unknown what Turkey will do. They have enough size, economical progress and location to forget their path alone outside of everyone interests and this seems to be most logical path forward for them. Enrogan unlike most of media paints him isn't idiot nor is some sort of new caliph, though neither he is altruistic. Like all men in power i think that he is both thinking for its nation (the real one, not the pretty picture) and something for himself. He is in unique place where he can decide fate of turkey and write his name into annals. I see them not joining EU and staying in this weird place between Russia and NATO. Them being member of NATO and controling russian Black Sea fleet AND doing business with Russia, ultimately winning because they are far to important to everyone to be enemy. Society wise i see them scaling back some of progress but not entirely like most of muslim nations. I think they will target something in between but just like China world won't care about it as long as they see money rolling. You could argue that China is much worse than Turkey and yet no one has any trouble with it internationally from "western democracies". Media will also stop talking about it soon as they always do when people lose interest.

As for Trump i don't live in US but i get enough "news" to form opinion and i don't see him any different than any other US president. Sure he looks like a fool but considering his actions (not words) he is probably one of better US presidents if you look from US perspective and only one that seems to find out that people don't give a shit about media opinions.

I can't see him losing 2020. He basically does everything he promised and at the end of the day it won't matter how he achieved this and that but that he actually achieved something. Judging by media though you would think he never did anything or something. Personality wise he isn't really sweetheart but i'd take someone who speaks what he has on mind instead of using politics talk where you say thing that you actually don't mean it and seems like most of people see this and accepts it despite media outcry.


--------------------

What i noticed though in last 5 years which was kind of shown by winning of Trump, and several other "non desirable" that media kind of bought their own fart smells where they thought that they are the one deciding things and life showed them that in fact they are just people reporting news and no one gives a fuck what they think about it, people are the one who will take in news and think for themselves.

 

[KevinKeene]

Define alt-right first.
Because every-time i hear it someone has completely different picture than another.

Frankly speaking right now i don't even know what that means anymore as left oriented types just call everything that is not super left alt-right. You are pro-gay but not pro-trans ? Alt right. Capitalist ? Alt-right. Everything that doesn't get same shade is branded alt-right. In that category they have Jordan Peterson left oriented guy and Hitler.

At this point i believe it is just therm left describes anyone who isn't them value wise AND can actually use computer and social networks which scares shit out of them because until that point they believed that their own bubble set the standards for discussion and is only valid point of view.



Incredible simplification that probably you got mostly from left oriented clickbait media.

Hungary - Orban isn't amazing person but is not dictator or tried to be one. When people comment on him, they point out his nationalism which is supposed to be bad thing in modern world. Orban got his "sticker" because he opposed EU on some societal issues and thanks to absolute majority he made changes in constitution that globalists didn't like, like trying to tax foreign companies. Obviously his anti-economic migrant agenda didn't help. But you can't box Hungary or Orban like so menace. It is simply wrong picture. People in hungary are not stupid as you might think and love freedom more than anyone else after communism. Reason Orban does a lot of changes is because they support him A LOT to point where he has enough votes to change constitution as his party see fit. Saying that hungary is some kind of dictatorship or tries to be one or trying to point out Hungary as some sort of declining democracy filled with right wing (nazi type) people is fucking hilarious and by saying that you only show ignorance and your world on subject is not worth a grain of salt.

Poland - You didn't mention it but i assume you also meant that considering it is now on media target. Another beauty, i live in Poland and i don't like current ruling party but i can't unsee how media has a goal to paint poland for clicks. The idea that PIS and currect PIS leader is some sort of dictator in making is fucking hilarious, at best you can call them fucking idiots with supple amount of corruption but you can't call them traitors/dictators and so on because whole group just isn't. They are pro-EU they just don't agree on vision some sort of federalist have in creating some sort of one EU nation and they oppose that. And there are good reasons for that too if you are willing to actually listen to arguments.

Austria - Can't really comment on that but from what i heard they just oppose economic migrants period. It is not "unhumane" nor it is scandal or something. At least if you are normal human being and not consider anything to specific kind of left as abhorent.

Turkey - This is much much much more complex problem to tackle on and it is VERY hard to even properly answer what is their actual position in reference to modern western democracies like Germany. To understand situation and WHY people vote for Enrogan even living in nations like germany or France after tasting "freedom" you need to first look at history of turkey. First of all your idea that Turkey is western like nation is simply WRONG. First of the big issues. "Islam". When people talk about islam they talk about it from position of US muslims or some highly educated ones who mostly lost their culture to enlightment (like so most of people in western oriented cultures). What people don't undestand is that Islam is not just faith. IT is both faith AND political institution. Islam doesn't just tell you how to live with god but also how to run nation, what to do with unbelievers, court system and other parts that are important in running nation not just praying. Second important part is geopolitical situation and history. Modern day Turkey and image of it you have in your head is mostly due to one man: Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. He was first president of modern Turkey and basically laid down whole design for modern nation if you look at his bio from wiki you would see that dude was like 50 years ahead of everyone at the time in thinking. Why it is a problem ? Because while he was monument of Turkey his policies were not exactly well liked by people. They were fine as long as this monument person hold on in power because as strong leader he showed a way to people and prosperity, as he died suddenly people realized that policies he put in place directly go against many facets of muslim/turkish culture. This meant that people started to change policies to be more like people want nation to be, more religious, less proggressive etc. and this is where you hit reset button. Military coup. You see Attaturk created system in such way that Army was put in place to fix things if stupid people decided to change things toward ismalic system. And army up until recently actually hold on to that. So you had this pendulum of people who want different nation and army hitting reset button every now and then removing goverment from power and placing people who will fix things and this went on up until recently. Enter Endrogan. Under his tenure Turkey saw IMMENSE economical progress and people see him as something more than just another politician. Just as before people wanted nation that more reflects their culture (islam) and thus Endrogan does what they want and gives them hope of strong islam Turkey power. Now this is crucial point and basically start of this weird Endrogan is new Caliph as painted in media. So just as i explained someone in army had same ideas as their predecessors and they wanted to do a coup but unlike before they didn't have support of whole army and basically they only controlled few units, coup failed. Which means there had to be consequences and party that wanted to do it and anyone supporting them had to be "purged" which would be logical in any western society when army tried to make a coup. Add to that war on southern border in syria and string of terrorist attacks and you would see why Endrogan is so highly supported by people. Those 3 huge events rallied up people for him + his view that Turkey should represent themselves not some western nation is why he is so popular. They real question is what will happen next. If you go by media they will say they will became russian puppets and caliphate in next 10 years or something. but like most of media nowdays that fired most of legit proffesionals and hired young blogger they are talking out of their ass. Currently it is unknown what Turkey will do. They have enough size, economical progress and location to forget their path alone outside of everyone interests and this seems to be most logical path forward for them. Enrogan unlike most of media paints him isn't idiot nor is some sort of new caliph, though neither he is altruistic. Like all men in power i think that he is both thinking for its nation (the real one, not the pretty picture) and something for himself. He is in unique place where he can decide fate of turkey and write his name into annals. I see them not joining EU and staying in this weird place between Russia and NATO. Them being member of NATO and controling russian Black Sea fleet AND doing business with Russia, ultimately winning because they are far to important to everyone to be enemy. Society wise i see them scaling back some of progress but not entirely like most of muslim nations. I think they will target something in between but just like China world won't care about it as long as they see money rolling. You could argue that China is much worse than Turkey and yet no one has any trouble with it internationally from "western democracies". Media will also stop talking about it soon as they always do when people lose interest.

As for Trump i don't live in US but i get enough "news" to form opinion and i don't see him any different than any other US president. Sure he looks like a fool but considering his actions (not words) he is probably one of better US presidents if you look from US perspective and only one that seems to find out that people don't give a shit about media opinions.

I can't see him losing 2020. He basically does everything he promised and at the end of the day it won't matter how he achieved this and that but that he actually achieved something. Judging by media though you would think he never did anything or something. Personality wise he isn't really sweetheart but i'd take someone who speaks what he has on mind instead of using politics talk where you say thing that you actually don't mean it and seems like most of people see this and accepts it despite media outcry.


--------------------

What i noticed though in last 5 years which was kind of shown by winning of Trump, and several other "non desirable" that media kind of bought their own fart smells where they thought that they are the one deciding things and life showed them that in fact they are just people reporting news and no one gives a fuck what they think about it, people are the one who will take in news and think for themselves.

I'm sorry, but this is terrible how you try to explain away what these terrible politicians do/did. Especially Erdogan. He's a full-on dictator and fanatic. If you disagree with that we have very differing moral points of view.

 

[BANGS]

However, I disagree with the 'focus on yourself, forget about the world'. That's what most people seem to do and see where it lead us.

That's why you're having such issues. There is nothing you can do to change the world despite what some would have you believe. Just do you first. Once you are comfortable, you can try to do your small, insignificant part in changing the world...

 

[KevinKeene]

That's why you're having such issues. There is nothing you can do to change the world despite what some would have you believe. Just do you first. Once you are comfortable, you can try to do your small, insignificant part in changing the world...

People can change the world. They can keep nazis from winning, they can save other people's lives and they can have an effect on public discourse. Fortunately, many people think like me, that's why we have universal healthcare and no gun crime epidemic in Germany.

 

[BANGS]

People

You are not people, you are an individual. I hate to have to lean on Jordan Peterson, but you a prime example of someone who needs to clean his room before trying to change the world.

Think about it this way. Right now you are an individual with a lot of issues, having a tough time with both changing yourself and influencing world. The more you improve yourself, the more effective you will be at changing the world. Right now you aren't going to be much help...

 

[KevinKeene]

You are not people, you are an individual. I hate to have to lean on Jordan Peterson, but you a prime example of someone who needs to clean his room before trying to change the world.

Think about it this way. Right now you are an individual with a lot of issues, having a tough time with both changing yourself and influencing world. The more you improve yourself, the more effective you will be at changing the world. Right now you aren't going to be much help...

I'm not waiting to fix my depression (which might be impossible anyway) before I fight nazis. Actually I'm quite sure that the course of the world is a source of my depression, so by changing the world I'm automatically helping myself

 

[Catphish]

I'm not waiting to fix my depression (which might be impossible anyway) before I fight nazis. Actually I'm quite sure that the course of the world is a source of my depression, so by changing the world I'm automatically helping myself

Peace in the self, peace in the home
Peace in the home, peace in the village
Peace in the village, peace in the nation
Peace in the nation, peace in the world

It starts with the self, homie.

I mean, it's your life, do what you feel you need to do, but some real wisdom has been imparted upon you in this thread, and I think you should consider letting it in.

Also, the world is not a source of your depression. You chosen perception of it, vis-a-vis your chosen expectations of it, are the likely sources of your depression.

Lord, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change
The Courage to change the things I can
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

 

[BANGS]

Actually I'm quite sure that the course of the world is a source of my depression

I am positive you are wrong about that...

 

[Dontero]

I'm sorry, but this is terrible how you try to explain away what these terrible politicians do/did. Especially Erdogan. He's a full-on dictator and fanatic. If you disagree with that we have very differing moral points of view.

What do you know about Erdogan exactly other than few clickbait headlines ? I mean you proved with your comment on Hungary that you don't have idea what is happening there. You have simple understanding of problem and frankly speaking wrong understanding.

I am no fan of Erdogan but i am not stupid to assume everything is evil just because i don't like outcome or someone point of view.
Turks support him for very good reasons. You might not share their values or views but saying Erdogan is somehow outier and something suprising on political scene is simply wrong. If you understand motives/reasons etc. then you can predict certain things and by same process you can asses if something is heading for worse.

Take for example Polish court system reform media in nations like Germany blast as some sort of powergrab.

What media says:
- unprecedented attack on courts
- after changes judges will be appointed by politicians which is wrong
- older judges should be judges for life or should not retire

What media doesn't tell you:
- Most of poles wanted court reform because court system in Poland is fucked. It is both corrupted and inefficient and it was literally one of PIS (current ruling party) main goals when they gathered votes. Their name is literally Law and Justice and it is headed mostly by law people.
Literally almost all older judges were judges who judged people (sometimes handed death sentences) in communist poland in banana courts. You can't understand hate for those people if you would not live in poland. Aside from part of media no one is crying after those old judges. Just weeks ago one of heads of supreme court was found out to be one of dudes who did this. Reason why it was arranged in such way was that Poland didn't remove communists in 89' it was peaceful transition where everyone who worked for goverment even those who killed people were pardoned and people didn't look into their crimes. In sounded great in theory but led to corrupt court system with clique of people who still behaved like they lived in communism.
- Media got right first part, judges unlike before will be appointed by parliament and president but they forgot to mention that previous system (judges appointing other judges) was outlier from almost all nations. After changes appointing judges will look almost the same as in every other EU nation. If you have trouble with that and say it is wrong you need to first find foul in your system and then come complain.
- Polish court system didn't have retirement age for judges. They went into "sleep" mode where they didn't take cases but they could come back at any time if needed. Problem with this is that they got paid in full while shitload of young people who wanted to became judges couldn't start as judges because old judges didn't want to let new blood into "family". So you end up court system where simple cases took years and complicated ones DECADES.

And those are just few of changes. Aside from that they changed so that judges can't pick cases themsleves (so judges can't "sell" cases which was a thing), reformed how to became judge in first place along with other law proffesions, so now instead of having lawyer/judge in family you have now real chance to became one without connections. This point i know personally because my neighbor daughter spend nearly 10 years trying to became lawyer after finishing her studies and couldn't simply because she did't have connections.

So if you listen to clickbait you get simple idea of complex issue.