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[ChorizoPicozo]

i only trust Eddie-Griffin when it comes to VR .

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Too bad around 10M of them arent in use anymore. From an Oct 2022 article.

Meta's flagship metaverse Horizon Worlds struggling to attract and retain users

A new report details the struggles Meta is facing in trying to establish its virtual reality experience Horizon Worlds …

www.gamesindustry.biz

The internal documents reportedly show that Quest retention rates are also struggling, with overall decline in the past three years. Over 50% of Quest headsets are no longer used six months after they are purchased.

 

[Fbh]

That's pretty impressive, way more than I expected.

It's too bad that FB is so focused on the self contained line. Taking the workings of the Quest 3 and removing everything needed to run the software locally on the device (but keeping just enough power to support airlink) and you'd have a really nice companion device for PC gamers. Would be interesting to see how much they could shave off the price and what that would do to adoption rates.

Maybe as a secondary product line, something like "Meta Quest 3 lite" or whatever.
But I think the standalone nature of it is a big reason of why it's so popular

 

[Baki]

To date:
PS5 ~32M
XBS S|X ~20M
Quest 2 ~19M

Seems like alot to me.

At the end of 2022, here are the actual numbers:
PS5: 30M
XBS: 18.5M
Quest 2: Close to 20M

Meta has clearly found a good formula for mainstream VR. Now they need to work on the headset comfort, battery life and getting more compelling software.

 

[DaGwaphics]

That's pretty impressive, way more than I expected.


Maybe as a secondary product line, something like "Meta Quest 3 lite" or whatever.
But I think the standalone nature of it is a big reason of why it's so popular

No question, the one and done thing is part of the appeal. But, I still think a solid but inexpensive inside-out headset could have a chance on PC. Windows MR gave it a go, but the headsets were early and the tracking has improved along with the benefits of going wireless if you could. Like you said though, as an additional product I think they should give it a go. Cast the widest net possible.

 

[pasterpl]

To date:
PS5 ~32M
XBS S|X ~20M
Quest 2 ~19M

Seems like alot to me.

Didn’t playstation sold like 9 millions in December alone GoW, COD did their job. And fixed their stock issues?

Coming back to the topic, this is great result for a gimmick device in niche market, quest 3 games supporting quest 2 might become interesting investment for some developers and publisher. I have already started to prep for Apple vr by saving £1k/month so that when it releases at £5k I will be golden

 

[Talkin Hawkin]

No question, the one and done thing is part of the appeal. But, I still think a solid but inexpensive inside-out headset could have a chance on PC. Windows MR gave it a go, but the headsets were early and the tracking has improved along with the benefits of going wireless if you could. Like you said though, as an additional product I think they should give it a go. Cast the widest net possible.

Nintendo are the ones who will bag the mainstream market. They know how to get the most from low powered specs, have more experience with handhelds and portables than anyone else, know how to make fun, simple software and have mass market appeal.

When Nintendo do VR, that's when VR will become mainstream.

 

[mckmas8808]

Quest 3 is half the size and double the power according to recent leaks. Along with PSVR2 and Valve's new headset, its pretty insane what is happening.

This is the BEST place VR has been in of all time. We just need Valve to launch their new headset within the next year or so.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

This proves that VR isn't as niche as some people like to think it.

Actually it proves VR is niche. Quest in general is the only active headset actually selling for the last 3 years.

 

[Talkin Hawkin]

Actually it proves VR is niche. Quest in general is the only active headset actually selling for the last 3 years.

It sold the same as a console in its' 4th generation.

Show us now, with proof, how this proves that VR is niche. I want receipts otherwise your post is nothing but inflammatory trolling and bait posting

 

[mckmas8808]

If Xbox Series sold 20 million in 2 years, that would actually be preety decent numbers...

18 million in 2 years. But who's counting.

Too bad around 10M of them arent in use anymore. From an Oct 2022 article.

Meta's flagship metaverse Horizon Worlds struggling to attract and retain users

A new report details the struggles Meta is facing in trying to establish its virtual reality experience Horizon Worlds …

www.gamesindustry.biz

The internal documents reportedly show that Quest retention rates are also struggling, with overall decline in the past three years. Over 50% of Quest headsets are no longer used six months after they are purchased.

That's Facebook's problem. It means the interest is there, but Facebook doesn't have the means to keep them interested.

 

[GHG]

Yeah I know a Beat Saber gamer too, also a woman, she use it as workout.
Anyhow, I’m interested in knowing who many that are still using it, because total sales numbers only tell half the story if they’re used to prove that a platform is currently doing well. Would be interesting to see a graph for sales per month since launch to see if popularity is going down or up.

I think it's almost certain that sales have dropped off compared to a couple of years ago because of the following:

• Pandemic is long gone - no more lockdowns
• The price of the hardware has increased
• Pandemic
• New software has also slowed down

The next shot in the arm will come with the next version provided the hardware is impressive and proves to be a substantial improvement over the quest 2.

 

[THE DUCK]

If its doing so well, why did they lose a bazillion truckloads of cash? Attach rate of beat saber?

 

[Nautilus]

Dude, it doesn't matter how you try to spin it.

Nearly 20M in 2 years is a good number, especially when people were saying VR will never take off. That number says it already did.

Well, let's agree to disagree. Everyone has their own standards after all.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

It sold the same as a console in its' 4th generation.

Show us now, with proof, how this proves that VR is niche. I want receipts otherwise your post is nothing but inflammatory trolling and bait posting

I know you didn't bother to read, but try doing that with the post you quoted next time.

Gear VR, Oculus, PSVR1, HTC, and others sold near 20 million in the early phase of generation of VR. Which everyone correctly called niche.

There is no difference other than the sales collapsing and consolidating around one headset. There is no growth. If this news was 30 million than you could say it was slowly coming out of niche, but it would still have been only with one headset which isn't a sign of a healthy market, but it didn't, it's 20.

What's inflammatory is you pretending you didn't already know this. As you've brought it up yourself before.

 

[Heisenberg007]

That's exactly why these numbers paint the Xbox in a bad way.VR is a recent thing, and the Quest even more so. And Xbox barely beats it, while the Switch and the PS5 barely have that problem. And the Xbox is a thing for what now, more than 20+ years?

Which begs the question: Just how longer can the Xbox remain viable, as a brand and as a product?

While I agree that Xbox numbers are not good and it's unviable at this point, but that's a separate debate.

My point is that nobody thinks of Xbox (One, 360, Series) as a niche product. So it's unfair to VR to be labeled as niche when it's doing the same numbers as Xbox consoles that have 20+ years of history, as you mentioned.

 

[Interfectum]

I think it's almost certain that sales have dropped off compared to a couple of years ago because of the following:

• Pandemic is long gone - no more lockdowns
• The price of the hardware has increased
• Pandemic
• New software has also slowed down

The next shot in the arm will come with the next version provided the hardware is impressive and proves to be a substantial improvement over the quest 2.

New software is the main reason. The gimmick of the hardware is only going to carry is so far... you have to have killer apps releasing and more waiting in the wings constantly. It's why Sony and Nintendo dominate. You don't just release hardware and hope other's fill it with content.

 

[onQ123]

Actually it proves VR is niche. Quest in general is the only active headset actually selling for the last 3 years.

If VR is niche with 20million Quest 2 sold what does that say about Xbox Series X/S ?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Actually it proves VR is niche. Quest in general is the only active headset actually selling for the last 3 years.

And Quest is ... a VR headset, right?

Do you think Xbox is also niche? Because both Xbox and Quest did the same numbers. And Xbox has a history and community of over 20 years and selling a console at $229, while Quest had little to no prior history and selling a more expensive product.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

If VR is niche with 20million Quest 2 sold what does that say about Xbox Series X/S ?

So Sony doesn't exist now? Are you thinking about what you're typing? Xbox and PS5 are over 50 million across devices, add Nintendo you now have 3 competitors selling millions.

VR market sold around this same amount before, and it has only consolidated around the Quest 2, nothing has changed. Why would it be less niche without a bigger increase in sales growth from the early phase of this generation of VR?

Do you think Xbox is also niche?

People aren't using their brain, you guys are seeing the thread title and not realizing the market is no different than before the quest 2, just that there was consolidation.

 

[GHG]

If its doing so well, why did they lose a bazillion truckloads of cash? Attach rate of beat saber?

They lose money on every unit sold, estimates are in the range of $100-$200.

Considering the number of add-on peripherals offered are limited (eg, controllers, etc) the software attach rates will need to be high to overcome that. That's unlikely given most of their audience are more "casual" in nature and will gladly play just 1-2 games for long periods of time.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Nintendo are the ones who will bag the mainstream market. They know how to get the most from low powered specs, have more experience with handhelds and portables than anyone else, know how to make fun, simple software and have mass market appeal.

When Nintendo do VR, that's when VR will become mainstream.

I don't think Nintendo would invest in the software that is really needed to wow people though. Cartoon-ish and fun is great, but real " holodeck" like ultra realistic experiences are what has been missing from VR up till now. Big AAA experiences that make you feel like you are living the game.

 

[Heisenberg007]

So Sony doesn't exist now? Are you thinking about what you're typing? Xbox and PS5 are over 50 million across devices, add Nintendo you now have 3 competitors selling millions.

VR market sold around this same amount before, and it has only consolidated around the Quest 2, nothing has changed. Why would it be less niche without a bigger increase in sales growth from the early phase of this generation of VR?



People aren't using their brain, you guys are seeing the thread title and not realizing the market is no different than before the quest 2, just that there was consolidation.

You're making extremely weird assumptions but not answering the question that everybody is asking you.

Is Xbox Series X and S niche? Because both S and X (combined) did the same numbers as Quest just did in 3 years.

 

[onQ123]

So Sony doesn't exist now? Are you thinking about what you're typing? Xbox and PS5 are over 50 million across devices, add Nintendo you now have 3 competitors selling millions.

VR market sold around this same amount before, and it has only consolidated around the Quest 2, nothing has changed. Why would it be less niche without a bigger increase in sales growth from the early phase of this generation of VR?



People aren't using their brain, you guys are seeing the thread title and not realizing the market is no different than before the quest 2, just that there was consolidation.

I said Xbox stop playing crazy

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

You're making extremely weird assumptions but not answering the question that everybody is asking you.

Is Xbox Series X and S niche? Because both S and X (combined) did the same numbers as Quest just did in 3 years.

Because you intentionally didn't read my last posts, so you're still asking a completely nonsensical question that misses the point the topic was about the VR market, not one headset.

Why are you pretending you don't get that?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Because you intentionally didn't read my last posts, so you're still asking a completely nonsensical question that misses the point the topic was about the VR market, not one headset.

Why are you pretending you don't get that?

Because your comment does not make any sense.

You're saying Quest 2 is not niche but VR is niche? How does that make any sense? The VR market will obviously be bigger than whatever number Quest does because there are other headsets on the market.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

I said Xbox stop playing crazy

And I said VR, not Quest alone, stop talking crazy.

The usual suspects are changing their own rules and talking points again. Now suddenly VR isn't niche anymore because of one headset, and if someone mentioned the market is still small they deflect to one headset. Ironically proving the market is still niche, just that consolidation happened.

But the next day you'll switch back again.

 

[damidu]

So Sony doesn't exist now? Are you thinking about what you're typing? Xbox and PS5 are over 50 million across devices, add Nintendo you now have 3 competitors selling millions.

VR market sold around this same amount before, and it has only consolidated around the Quest 2, nothing has changed. Why would it be less niche without a bigger increase in sales growth from the early phase of this generation of VR?

People aren't using their brain, you guys are seeing the thread title and not realizing the market is no different than before the quest 2, just that there was consolidation.

lol spin harder. youll get there. it doesnt need to beat console market to be "not niche"
gamepass is a niche service by that logic
steamdeck is a disaster of epic proportions

 

[DaGwaphics]

And Quest is ... a VR headset, right?

Do you think Xbox is also niche? Because both Xbox and Quest did the same numbers. And Xbox has a history and community of over 20 years and selling a console at $229, while Quest had little to no prior history and selling a more expensive product.

Xbox is a small piece of a larger market, not a market all of its own. You'd have to compare the entire console market to the entire VR market over the same period.

Quest is just the most popular option in its market while the Xbox isn't. But Xbox isn't niche because consoles in general aren't niche it has nothing to with how many units they sold.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Because your comment does not make any sense.

Because you never read my comment,

Actually it proves VR is niche. Quest in general is the only active headset actually selling for the last 3 years.

or my follow up comment,

I know you didn't bother to read, but try doing that with the post you quoted next time.

Gear VR, Oculus, PSVR1, HTC, and others sold near 20 million in the early phase of generation of VR. Which everyone correctly called niche.

There is no difference other than the sales collapsing and consolidating around one headset. There is no growth. If this news was 30 million than you could say it was slowly coming out of niche, but it would still have been only with one headset which isn't a sign of a healthy market, but it didn't, it's 20.

What's inflammatory is you pretending you didn't already know this. As you've brought it up yourself before.

Both make sense because both happened. If you didn't look at my posts out of context you would not have been confused.

 

[onQ123]

And I said VR, not Quest alone, stop talking crazy.

The usual suspects are changing their own rules and talking points again. Now suddenly VR isn't niche anymore because of one headset, and if someone mentioned the market is still small they deflect to one headset. Ironically proving the market is still niche, just that consolidation happened.

But the next day you'll switch back again.

Just answer the damn question

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

lol spin harder. youll get there. it doesnt need to beat console market to be "not niche"

I never said this why are you making things up?

Xbox is a small piece of a larger market, not a market all of its own. You'd have to compare the entire console market to the entire VR market over the same period.

Quest is just the most popular option in its market while the Xbox isn't. But Xbox isn't niche because consoles in general aren't niche it has nothing to with how many units they sold.

Exactly, not sure why people aren't getting this. Quest 2 is consolidation, it's not the whole VR market, VR market is still mostly in the same place it was before the Quest 2, just there's only one main player now.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Because you never read my comment,
or my follow up comment,

Both make sense because both happened. If you didn't look at my posts out of context you would not have been confused.

Nope. None of this makes sense. And it's not me. It's you. 3-4 people are literally pointing this out to you, but you're not reviewing and rethinking what you're writing.

 

[Romulus]

But it's pretty much the same numbers as Xbox Series X + Xbox Series S (likely a few hundred thousand more than that).

Does anybody think that Xbox Series X and S (combined) are a niche product?

Combined X/S consoles AND a price hike of $100

Still on pace.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Nope. None of this makes sense. And it's not me. It's you. 3-4 people are literally pointing this out to you, but you're not reviewing and rethinking what you're writing.

No that's what you're doing, while ignoring the people pointing out you're wrong.

You didn't read the posts correctly, if you did you never would have brought Xbox into the conversation because I never talked about an individual headset from the start, it's right there in bold for you to plainly see.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Xbox is a small piece of a larger market, not a market all of its own. You'd have to compare the entire console market to the entire VR market over the same period.

Quest is just the most popular option in its market while the Xbox isn't. But Xbox isn't niche because consoles in general aren't niche it has nothing to with how many units they sold.

Quest is also not the entire market.

And my question wasn't if console market is niche. My question was would he consider Xbox niche? People bought the same amount of Quest and Xbox (~20 million) in the last 3 years.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Quest is also not the entire market.

Which was my point, which you still aren't able to understand yet even after I showed you the two first posts I made and bolded the texts for you. how are you not getting this? What part of "only active headset SELLING" and "consolidation" are you confused about? Those words clearly are referring to the market not just the Quest 2.

 

[DaGwaphics]

The internal documents reportedly show that Quest retention rates are also struggling, with overall decline in the past three years. Over 50% of Quest headsets are no longer used six months after they are purchased.

Yikes. The above is a quote from the article linked earlier in the thread, if that is in fact true, the Quest 2 could be more detrimental to VR than it is helpful. If half the users feel like they wasted their money on it, they might never invest in the technology again. FB has to work on getting the content to satisfy their customers, just getting the initial sale isn't good enough.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Which was my point, which you still aren't able to understand yet even after I showed you the two first posts I made and bolded the texts for you. how are you not getting this? What part of "only active headset SELLING" and "consolidation" are you confused about? Those words clearly are referring to the market not just the Quest 2.

You're saying this as if Quest is the only VR headset out there, which is obviously not the case.

Edit: Anyway, it's too late for me to have this argument. And you still haven't answered my question, so ... eh. Ciao!

 

[Romulus]

Probably be closer to 25+ million if it weren't for the price hike and "meta bad" sentiment and the silly "facebook required" shit they had forever. At 25 million, they're knocking on PS5 numbers.

There's literally no way to spin it as bad or "in decline." It's literally the exact opposite.

 

[Taddypole]

Too bad around 10M of them arent in use anymore. From an Oct 2022 article.

http://[URL]https://www.gamesindust...worlds-struggling-to-attract-and-retain-users

[/URL]

The internal documents reportedly show that Quest retention rates are also struggling, with overall decline in the past three years. Over 50% of Quest headsets are no longer used six months after they are purchased.

This only proves that people want better games and not everyone is using this on pc as everyone seems to think.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Quest is also not the entire market.

And my question wasn't if console market is niche. My question was would he consider Xbox niche? People bought the same amount of Quest and Xbox (~20 million) in the last 3 years.

Is the Xbox brand niche in a lot of markets around the world, absolutely it is. LOL But, it isn't a standalone market so Xbox users can play most of the same games as Sony users even in the niche markets and cross-play even allows them to play with friends on Sony, etc. That's what makes the comparison absolutely meaningless. If the Xbox was a complete standalone market of 20m with software for it not being made also available on PC and rival consoles, it absolutely would have major issues in the software department. It would be too niche to generate the required returns for high budget games. Because it exists as an option alongside other compatible options it isn't niche in terms of software.

VR is a little different. So far, the VR market as a whole has not shown the ability to sustain AAA game development in a profitable way (it will remain niche in my mind until it can do so).

The more important numbers would be the software tie rate and the total hours played per headset, I would like to see those.

 

[Moses85]

VR is a nice

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

You're saying this as if Quest is the only VR headset out there, which is obviously not the case.

Except I didn't, otherwise I wouldn't say "consolidation" or "only ACTIVE" headset still selling, and then named other headsets that sold a similar amount to the Quest 2 before.

I get the goal post moves but it's not going to work, the original psots were clear.

 

[Captain Toad]

Eddie-Griffin you ok?

Edit: read his posts now. Nope, he's not.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

Except I didn't, otherwise I wouldn't say "consolidation" or "only ACTIVE" headset still selling, and then named other headsets that sold a similar amount to the Quest 2 before.

I get the goal post moves but it's not going to work, the original psots were clear.

Dude, everybody else already seems to be in on the joke, but I just have to ask what is your investment in downplaying VR’s success? You already insisted it was niche so you have to maintain that position? The numbers aren’t adding up my dude. 20 million is a mainstream success by any standard, whether it’s the quest2 or xbox (2 separate consoles btw) or any other hardware, people would kill for those numbers. There’s only one person playing games with goalposts here, but I just can’t figure out your motivation. What did VR games do to you?

 

[damidu]

The more important numbers would be the software tie rate and the total hours played per headset, I would like to see those.

yeah, i would like to see same for xbox

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Quest is also not the entire market.

And my question wasn't if console market is niche. My question was would he consider Xbox niche? People bought the same amount of Quest and Xbox (~20 million) in the last 3 years.

If Xbox at 20m is niche so is PS5 at 30M. Both are far off from 50M, 80M or 100M+.

 

[Flutta]

Damn. That a number would make Jimbo wet his bed.

 

[DaGwaphics]

yeah, i would like to see same for xbox

Hours played would be good I'm sure, GP should be helping there by providing users with many titles to play. Though PS+ Extra is likely increasing total engagement hours on PS as well.

People that buy consoles use them, that's not really a point for debate. Whether or not people stay engaged with VR is an open question. Apparently, half the Quest users put the units on a shelf in the closet after 6 months, that's not great. Though it does mirror my experience with PSVR, a big waste for me personally. I have barely used it.