• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

AMD Ryzen 7000 X3D to be Unveiled at CES 2023

winjer

Member

We have managed to get hold of an internal roadmap that more or less confirms that AMD will be unveiling its Zen 4 3D V-Cache parts at CES 2023. The processors will be positioned as the fastest gaming chips on the market and will be taking the gaming performance crown from Intel's Raptor Lake 13th Gen CPUs.

CES 2023 will is set for 05 – 08 January.


 

winjer

Member
Zen 4 launch was pretty underwhelming.

Intel really came out swinging with their latest CPUs. I feel like it shouldn’t be a matter of waiting for the 3D CPUs - AMD should’ve had a better product out of the gate.

Zen4 CPUs are very competitive with Raptor Lake.
The real issue is the prices, of both the CPUs and the motherboards.
AMD needs to slash prices as soon as possible.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
I don’t know what they were thinking with the Zen 4 launch. If you’re a gamer with an AM4 board, 5800X3D is better. If you’re in the market for a new platform, you’ll wait to compare Zen 4 X3D and Raptor Lake.

Not surprising that the launch sales were so low.
 

skneogaf

Member
I'm curious what percentage of people that buy high end cpus buy them for gaming vs blender type software?

I'm surprised a pure gaming cpu like the X3D seems to be hasn't been the focus for Intel too.

Hopefully one day we'll have a X3D vs Intel gaming cpu rivalry for us gamers that will massively improve gaming while not costing stupid money as the top end amd and Intel cpus cost.
 

Ev1L AuRoN

Member
I was pretty underwhelmed with Zen 4 launch, specially with the R5 7600 (I'm a budget kind of guy), to me the 7600 fail to beat even the 12600k, I knew the 13600k would crush it, just didn't know by how much, and it ends up being significant.
 
Last edited:

Ellery

Member
Friend of mine is going to be happy about this, but the hardware space is currently a gigantic pit of failure, disappointment and late stage profit making cycle paired with early adopter premium prices for minimal gains. (in my eyes)

In the end it is just a matter of money and whether you need to upgrade. What would I get from upgrading my 3 year old CPU to a new one for at least $1200 (including all components) when I am going to be limited by my GPU anyway in higher resolutions?

It seems like there would need to be a lot of games to make that sum even remotely worth it. Even if it was 10 games with CPU bottleneck it would still be 120 bucks per game to have a slightly higher minimum framerate.

I'd rather pay for good software than even more hardware brute forcing gains through rising power consumption making things even more expensive.

For people that haven't upgraded in 6 years or so this new 2023 gamer focused 3D cache generation will be pretty interesting and build a strong gaming platform paired with modern 5nm GPUs.
 

KellyNole

Member
I don’t know what they were thinking with the Zen 4 launch. If you’re a gamer with an AM4 board, 5800X3D is better. If you’re in the market for a new platform, you’ll wait to compare Zen 4 X3D and Raptor Lake.

Not surprising that the launch sales were so low.

Unless you have a 4090, the 5800X3D is fantastic it seems.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I don’t know what they were thinking with the Zen 4 launch. If you’re a gamer with an AM4 board, 5800X3D is better. If you’re in the market for a new platform, you’ll wait to compare Zen 4 X3D and Raptor Lake.

Not surprising that the launch sales were so low.

I’ve been looking at performance charts while sitting on the fence, and no joke; the 5800X3D may be the best option if you’re on AM4.
It uses less power and often beats the 7600X and trades blows with Intel.
DDR5 doesn’t seem to provide a gaming boost at all right now, and that adds a couple hundred bucks to the setup.

I’m rather glad Zen 4 sales are disappointing. Motherboard prices are out of control.
 
Last edited:

ToTTenTranz

Member
Going by today's Raptor Lake results, Ryzen 7000X3D models are going to stomp through Intel's range on the desktop. Though I can see how AMD is probably going to take advantage of this to bump up their average selling price by making halo products out of every 3D Cache model they release.

And on the mobile front it doesn't look like Raptor Lake will be much better than Alder Lake, so mobile Zen4 is bound to do leaps and bounds around it.
Which makes Microsoft's decision to forego AMD in their entire Surface range an even weirder decision. It's like they're asking to become irrelevant.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
I was pretty underwhelmed with Zen 4 launch, specially with the R5 7600 (I'm a budget kind of guy), to me the 7600 fail to beat even the 12600k, I knew the 13600k would crush it, just didn't know by who much, and it ends up being significant.

They poked the sleeping dragon

Even as a zen 1 adopter years ago, it was basically to send the message for Intel to wake the fuck up, competition is here.

Well it took a while but, it’s not going to get any easier for AMD from now on. Intel seems aggressive in pricing and performance. The tables have turned. AMD needs to slash price. Nobody will buy main line now if Intel beats it or we wait for 3D v-cache versions.
 

winjer

Member
Call me crazy but all 7000 series CPU's should have been the X3D variants.

Not really.
That cache is expensive and it only brings benefits in gaming and a few applications.
So people that care about productivity, will want more cores, not more cache.

Also, that cache is on top of the CPU, so power usage has to be limited as not to increase temperatures a lot.
So X3D chips will have lower clocks.

Ideally AMD would have released all at the same time. And people would decided whether to buy more cache or more cores.
 
Not really.
That cache is expensive and it only brings benefits in gaming and a few applications.
So people that care about productivity, will want more cores, not more cache.

Also, that cache is on top of the CPU, so power usage has to be limited as not to increase temperatures a lot.
So X3D chips will have lower clocks.

Ideally AMD would have released all at the same time. And people would decided whether to buy more cache or more cores.
Yes we all know these facts about the X3D chips since most of us posting in these threads have read all the reviews, watched videos, etc.

AMD isn't doing so hot because people rightly suspected Intel would release Raptor Lake and see better performance for less money, and they were right. Having X3D as the standard would have given each chip a major boost in gaming and the appearance of being a better value, worth buying into new motherboards and RAM for.

So far initial impressions are of a bad value since the motherboards are expensive and so is the required DDR5, when you can use older boards and DDR4 with Intel's newest chips (which are also cheaper) and get the same or better performance.
 
Last edited:

winjer

Member
Yes we all know these facts about the X3D chips since most of us posting in these threads have read all the reviews, watched videos, etc.

AMD isn't doing so hot because people rightly suspected Intel would release Raptor Lake and see better performance for less money, and they were right. Having X3D as the standard would have given each chip a major boost in gaming and the appearance of being a better value, worth buying into new motherboards and RAM for.

So far initial impressions are of a bad value since the motherboards are expensive and so is the required DDR5, when you can use older boards and DDR4 with Intel's newest chips (which are also cheaper) and get the same or better performance.

AMD does have a couple of advantage, the long support for AM5.
If you buy AM5, you'll be able to use that MB and DDR5 for another 5 years or so. Only needing to upgrade the CPU.
But with Intel, there is no upgrade path. So you will eventually have to buy a new motherboard and CPU to make an upgrade. And if you choose to buy DDR4 today, you have to DDR5 as well.
Also consider that Zen4 is more power efficient, and with energy prices sop high, that is an important consideration.
So in the long term, AMD will be considerably cheaper.

 
Last edited:

Pagusas

Elden Member
AMD does have a couple of advantage, the long support for AM5.
If you buy AM5, you'll be able to use that MB and DDR5 for another 5 years or so. Only needing to upgrade the CPU.
But with Intel, there is no upgrade path. So you will eventually have to buy a new motherboard and CPU to make an upgrade. And if you choose to buy DDR4 today, you have to DDR5 as well.
Also consider that Zen4 is more power efficient, and with energy prices sop high, that is an important consideration.
So in the long term, AMD will be considerably cheaper.
I don't feel thats really true though (this coming from someone who just bought an AM5 x670e-i Asus strix board for almost $500.

You'll still need to update your mobo in 2 - 3 years if you want to be able to use the latest, fastest DDR5. Even this super expensive board only has officially support up to DDR5 6400, and we just saw Gskill announce DDR5 7800 memory coming right now.


I wonder if we'll see a price drop in the next few weeks, 7950 is $100 overpriced at the moment. I'd love to get that hundred back :), i'm already seeing several retailers dropping the price from 699 to 680. Should be at 599, or650 if they are going to lean on its core count for extra cost positioning.
 
Last edited:

winjer

Member
I don't feel thats really true though (this coming from someone who just bought an AM5 x670e-i Asus strix board for almost $500.

You'll still need to update your mobo in 2 - 3 years if you want to be able to use the latest, fastest DDR5. Even this super expensive board only has officially support up to DDR5 6400, and we just saw Gskill announce DDR5 7800 memory coming right now.

No you don't. The memory controller is not on the Northbridge of the MB. It's on the CPU.
Also consider that with an X3D chip, you don't really need fast ram.

What if I told you that I had an Asus X370 running a 3600X, at 3800MT/s, with very tight timmings.
 
Last edited:

Pagusas

Elden Member
No you don't. The memory controller is not on the Northbridge of the MB. It's on the CPU.
Also consider that with an X3D chip, you don't really need fast ram.
Forgot about that.. but then why do mobo manufacturers all state their supported DDR5 speeds and some of the lower end boards cant seem to support going about 5600? I assume memory connections between the socket and memory play a role in final supported speed?
 

winjer

Member
Forgot about that.. but then why do mobo manufacturers all state their supported DDR5 speeds and some of the lower end boards cant seem to support going about 5600? I assume memory connections between the socket and memory play a role in final supported speed?

That is just standard practice. Intel and AMD do the same thing.
For example, the 13900K has an oficial DDR5 memory speed of 5600MT/s, published on Intel Ark. And 3200MT/s for DDR4.
But all reviewers tested with DDR5 6000-6400. Some even higher.

Things that do matter for memory clocks are the amount of dimm slots. MB with 2 dimm slots, will clock higher.
Also, the memory topology, especially with 4 dimm slots.
And the number of PCB layers, as to separate a best the interference from electrical signals.

But the main component to affect memory speeds is the memory controller. And the IF in AMD systems.
 
Last edited:

Pagusas

Elden Member
That is just standard practice. Intel and AMD do the same thing.
For example, the 13900K has an oficial DDR5 memory speed of 5600MT/s, published on Intel Ark. And 3200MT/s for DDR4.
But all reviewers tested with DDR5 6000-6400. Some even higher.

Things that do matter for memory clocks are the amount of dimm slots. MB with 2 dimm slots, will clock higher.
Also, the memory topology, especially with 4 dimm slots.
And the number of PCB layers, as to separate a best the interference from electrical signals.

But the main component to affect memory speeds is the memory controller. And the IF in AMD systems.
Great info, thank you. Hopefully it means I'll get a long life out of this x670e-i Strix mobo then.
 
AMD had to make the painful necessary transition to DDR5, PCIE5, so it does feel a bit underwhelming, but from this point on expect great products. Zen5 is rumored to be all about Machine Learning, NPU type of support. Pair that with RDNA3+ and AMD will most likely take the crown from Intel and NVIDIA.

Zen5 will make Zen4 look like Zen 1 :LOL:
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
what? Intel threw power efficiency completely out the window......the new CPUs might be chart toppers, and even that not consistently, but the efficiency per watt is utter crap.

Power efficiency has gone out the door with PC components, period.

I’m starting to think my 750watt PSU is no longer going to be enough for mid range Gaming in the near future.
 

Reallink

Member
Really dumb of AMD to miss the holiday season, they're gonna lose a lot of customers. The 13XXXs are not only faster, they're also generally $200+ less expensive than the 7XXXs due to the price of the chips, mobo, and memory. The mobo partners in particular are really sinking them by gouging prices with $300 "budget" boards.
 
Last edited:

Chiggs

Member
Really dumb of AMD to miss the holiday season, they're the gonna lose a lot of customers. The 13XXXs are not only faster, they're also generally $200+ less expensive than the 7XXXs due to the price of the chips, mobo, and memory.

And use more power, which could necessitate the need for a better PSU, and peak at 100 degrees Celsius (hotter than even the 7950X), which could necessitate the need for a better AIO, lest the end user settle for thermal throttling.

Oh, and the platform is dead, too, whereas AM5 gets supported through 2025.

Not such a great deal, unless you're upgrading from Alder Lake.
 

KungFucius

Member
Zen4 CPUs are very competitive with Raptor Lake.
The real issue is the prices, of both the CPUs and the motherboards.
AMD needs to slash prices as soon as possible.
The motherboards are ridiculous. They have too many variants. Not everything needs to have many tiers. The non Es are just stupid. B650 - optional PCIE 5 NVME - Fuck you AMD. Just make a board that is obviously shit tier and don't confuse people who are just trying to get into PC gaming.
 

winjer

Member
The motherboards are ridiculous. They have too many variants. Not everything needs to have many tiers. The non Es are just stupid. B650 - optional PCIE 5 NVME - Fuck you AMD. Just make a board that is obviously shit tier and don't confuse people who are just trying to get into PC gaming.

You know that the 13600K has a similar restriction, but in this case it's on the CPU, affecting all motherboards.
If you use the Gen 5 M.2 slot, then the PCIe slot for the GPU works only at 8X.

 

Haggard

Banned
Power efficiency has gone out the door with PC components, period.
No? Performance per watt was never better....aside from some exceptions like Intels current crap. Even Nvidias 4090 is extremely power efficient once the power target is adjusted.
 
Last edited:

Reallink

Member
And use more power, which could necessitate the need for a better PSU, and peak at 100 degrees Celsius (hotter than even the 7950X), which could necessitate the need for a better AIO, lest the end user settle for thermal throttling.

Oh, and the platform is dead, too, whereas AM5 gets supported through 2025.

Not such a great deal, unless you're upgrading from Alder Lake.

Illusory advantages. The overwhelming majority will keep any CPU they buy today beyond AM5's 2025 lifespan, any new GPU they'd be pairing with these parts already require an overspec'ed PSU, both brands torch themselves under heavy loads requiring the same coolers, and thermals/power for both are only really an issue for benchmarks. Daily and gaming workloads don't come anywhere close to those worst case scenarios. So no, none of these things justify a $200+ price premium.
 
Last edited:
AMD had to make the painful necessary transition to DDR5, PCIE5, so it does feel a bit underwhelming, but from this point on expect great products. Zen5 is rumored to be all about Machine Learning, NPU type of support. Pair that with RDNA3+ and AMD will most likely take the crown from Intel and NVIDIA.

Zen5 will make Zen4 look like Zen 1 :LOL:
3d cache based zen 5 chips literally couldn’t be more perfect for consoles since the main limitations of 3d Cache don’t affect a console. I will now be dissapointed if they aren’t using 3d v cache on the pro models
 

LordOfChaos

Member
It's pretty impressive how much you still see the 5000 series x3d at the top of some benchmarks (especially science and simulation), though it falls short on being older in other areas. New architecture with the 3D cache will be interesting for sure



 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
I'm kinda confused why zen 4 exists that's none v cache. Shit isn't selling and it's super expensive. Then intel kicks it's ass a few weeks later...why even bother with it?
 

Leonidas

Member
Great info, thank you. Hopefully it means I'll get a long life out of this x670e-i Strix mobo then.
As someone who held onto an AM4 board for 4 years, good luck with that. X670 will be missing out features that come with the later chipsets in the same way I missed out features on my X470 only a few years into owning it. You sound like an enthusiast, will you willingly accept missing features in 2-3 years? It sounds like you're already considering faster DDR5 at some point, buying a new CPU + upgrading to faster DDR5 isn't far off from just buying a whole new platform.

Now that CPUs are upgrading at a rapid pace, I'd hate to be held back in certain areas because I was on an older chipset. After my experience of using an X470 board for 4 years, I'm happily going back to upgrading both CPU and motherboard every couple of years.
 
Last edited:

Neo_game

Member
I wonder if it is going to be 450$ which sit between 13600K and 13900K. AMD looks bad in both price and performance.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
with that kind of power efficiency........riiiight

It's only rocking like 120 watts in gaming. Plus ryzen 7000 runs at 95 degrees under load.

Both have their issues and intel kicks AMDs ass on these main stay CPUs so I'm confused on what AMDs plans were.

V Cache is gonna be amazing I'm sure. Looking forward to seeing them, just don't get why the standard AMD cpus exist and it seems like the public feels the same as they are not selling well.
 

TTOOLL

Member
Friend of mine is going to be happy about this, but the hardware space is currently a gigantic pit of failure, disappointment and late stage profit making cycle paired with early adopter premium prices for minimal gains. (in my eyes)

In the end it is just a matter of money and whether you need to upgrade. What would I get from upgrading my 3 year old CPU to a new one for at least $1200 (including all components) when I am going to be limited by my GPU anyway in higher resolutions?

It seems like there would need to be a lot of games to make that sum even remotely worth it. Even if it was 10 games with CPU bottleneck it would still be 120 bucks per game to have a slightly higher minimum framerate.

I'd rather pay for good software than even more hardware brute forcing gains through rising power consumption making things even more expensive.

For people that haven't upgraded in 6 years or so this new 2023 gamer focused 3D cache generation will be pretty interesting and build a strong gaming platform paired with modern 5nm GPUs.

Great post, but it's the reality. PC has always brute forced everything and will continue doing so. Devs can never take full advantage of the system, if you want that consoles are the only choice. They actually improve during their lifetime.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
As someone who held onto an AM4 board for 4 years, good luck with that. X670 will be missing out features that come with the later chipsets in the same way I missed out features on my X470 only a few years into owning it. You sound like an enthusiast, will you willingly accept missing features in 2-3 years? It sounds like you're already considering faster DDR5 at some point, buying a new CPU + upgrading to faster DDR5 isn't far off from just buying a whole new platform.

Now that CPUs are upgrading at a rapid pace, I'd hate to be held back in certain areas because I was on an older chipset. After my experience of using an X470 board for 4 years, I'm happily going back to upgrading both CPU and motherboard every couple of years.
Yeah, I probably spend about 5-6k a year on pc builds between water blocks and constantly updating. The hardest part is good ITX boards don't come around as often as I'd like, and I'm deep into building sub 30L builds (next build is a 20L, soon as the Loki SFX PSU comes out and my AQ-Slate case comes in). I upgrade often but would like to slow down a little soon, my wife's already mad at me for buying the 4090 + ek waterblock when I just built her a 3090 rig lol.
 
Last edited:

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
As someone who held onto an AM4 board for 4 years, good luck with that. X670 will be missing out features that come with the later chipsets in the same way I missed out features on my X470 only a few years into owning it. You sound like an enthusiast, will you willingly accept missing features in 2-3 years? It sounds like you're already considering faster DDR5 at some point, buying a new CPU + upgrading to faster DDR5 isn't far off from just buying a whole new platform.

Now that CPUs are upgrading at a rapid pace, I'd hate to be held back in certain areas because I was on an older chipset. After my experience of using an X470 board for 4 years, I'm happily going back to upgrading both CPU and motherboard every couple of years.

Just look at all the gaming performance you’ll be missing out on without DDR5 6600+ (image is from the DDR5 6600 review, it’s cut off on that line)
 

Haggard

Banned
It's only rocking like 120 watts in gaming. Plus ryzen 7000 runs at 95 degrees under load.
and u think gaming is what high end CPUs are made for? that´s barely a niche market.........in productivity Intel`s new product line is hopeless crap with that kind of power draw.
At least the flagship is. Maybe the lower tiers are less "crazy" and Intel only pulled an Nvidia 4090 there shipping an highly overclocked piece just for the "muh charts"-factor.
 
Last edited:

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
and u think gaming is what high end CPUs are made for? that´s barely a niche market.........in productivity Intel`s new product line is hopeless crap with that kind of power draw.
At least the flagship is. Maybe the lower tiers are less "crazy" and Intel only pulled an Nvidia 4090 there shipping an highly overclocked piece just for the "muh charts"-factor.

I don't have any allegiance, I like all the company's I'm just trying to express that ryzen 7000 confuses me and it confuses the average public. Its not selling, I wonder if that will change with v cache or if gamers will just get a 13400F or 13600K with ddr4 and enjoy their games.

Just a strange launch from AMD imo. Intel is spicy but it delivers on performance.
 

Reallink

Member
I'm kinda confused why zen 4 exists that's none v cache. Shit isn't selling and it's super expensive. Then intel kicks it's ass a few weeks later...why even bother with it?

They're difficult and expensive to manufacture. They couldn't have produced the whole 7XXX line up with it even if they wanted to. There will probably be shortages when they do release them.
 
Last edited:

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
No? Performance per watt was never better....aside from some exceptions like Intels current crap. Even Nvidias 4090 is extremely power efficient once the power target is adjusted.

Never been better? I want what you’re smoking. Power requirements are going up. The 13900K uses more then double the power of a 5800X3D, and barely beats it in gaming.
 
Top Bottom