• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

AMD's Radeon Navi Review Thread: Series 5700.

Leonidas

"Ask me about computers"
Mar 6, 2007
1,776
1,247
1,370
Good thing they dropped the prices on these before launch, otherwise these would have been DOA after Nvidia unveiled RTX Super.

I don't think the price cut was enough though as the value in relation to Nvidia is arguably worse than they were at E3.

Nvidia RTX Super got faster by 13-15% in that segment but AMD reacted with only an 8-12% price cut.
 
Last edited:

xPikYx

Neo Member
Jun 23, 2019
46
35
105
Good thing they dropped the prices on these before launch, otherwise these would have been DOA after Nvidia unveiled RTX Super.

I don't think the price cut was enough though as the value in relation to Nvidia is arguably worse than they were at E3.

Nvidia RTX Super got faster by 13-15% in that segment but AMD reacted with only an 8-12% price cut.
And no Ray tracing
 

Ivellios

Member
Mar 26, 2015
1,404
779
520
Brazil
Good thing they dropped the prices on these before launch, otherwise these would have been DOA after Nvidia unveiled RTX Super.

I don't think the price cut was enough though as the value in relation to Nvidia is arguably worse than they were at E3.

Nvidia RTX Super got faster by 13-15% in that segment but AMD reacted with only an 8-12% price cut.
At the same price point 5700XT beats the 2060S and the 5700 beats vanilla RTX 2060. So for those who dont care about ray tracing this is a better option.

But for those who care, this is still a tough sell, because its better to be able to experience some kind of RT than none at all
 
Jul 29, 2013
1,251
1,301
615
Oregon, US
It's nice to have some competition again. 5700 XT or 2060S at $399 is good value compared to your average 2070 that has been trending at ~$479 lately. I'm thankful to get a $50 drop on the 5700XT, but I'd probably still lean towards 2060S at $399, as I think they'll be close at max OC, and I don't think partner AiBs will be $399(we'll see). I won't be getting a blower, which kinda makes these AMD price points just placeholders until we find out how much the 2 or 3 fan models cost.
 

Armorian

Member
Jan 17, 2018
785
578
360
German CPU article has been leaked:



makes 9900k customers nervous, I was told.
Intel clearly wins in CPU limited scenarios and with slower memory on board. No screenshots for other games (I'd like to see Origins)?
 
Feb 15, 2013
6,867
463
540
London
Intel clearly wins in CPU limited scenarios and with slower memory on board. No screenshots for other games (I'd like to see Origins)?
They are using memory that is JEDEC standard rated for each chipset, so 2666 or whatever Intel standard for 9th gen series whereas Ryzen 3000 is rated up to 3200Mhz.
 

pawel86ck

Member
Jan 27, 2018
546
481
285
At the same price point 5700XT beats the 2060S and the 5700 beats vanilla RTX 2060. So for those who dont care about ray tracing this is a better option.

But for those who care, this is still a tough sell, because its better to be able to experience some kind of RT than none at all
RT even on RTX cards is expensive (performance wise) but features like that are still interesting to enthusiasts like me. I remember my ancient Geforce 3, shaders killed performance on that GPU literally the same way as RT on RTX cards now (half life 2 70-80fps in DX7 mode, 20-30fps DX8 settings), so rather than playing in 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 at 40-60fps without shaders I had to play in 1024x768 or even 800x600 (splinter cell 1 was so demanding only 800x600 was somewhat playable in around 25-30fps) with shaders at around 30fps, but it was still exciting to see new effects in games (or benchmarks like 3dmark2001) that pushed graphic quality above DX7 rather than seeing screenshots in magazines. If you have certain feature like HW RT you have a chooice, you can experiment and even play with it, so from my perspective 2060/2070 super cards are still more interesting compared to RX5700 despite higher price.



In 1080p it's possible to play with 30fps and even 60fps so it's not totally useless feature as some people suggest.

Because PS5/xbox scarlett will both have HW RT I'm guessing it will be impossible to run these console games at console settings on GPU's without HW RT, and maybe even these games will not run at all. On the other hand 8GB VRAM on RTX cards can be a problem too, because if next gen consoles will have over 20GB RAM, so we will see over 10GB VRAM requirements in games for sure. So no matter if you buy RX 5700 or 2060/2070 Super, these GPU's will last only till PS5/scarlett launch. IMO right now is not a best time to buy a new GPU.
 
Last edited:

Armorian

Member
Jan 17, 2018
785
578
360
They are using memory that is JEDEC standard rated for each chipset, so 2666 or whatever Intel standard for 9th gen series whereas Ryzen 3000 is rated up to 3200Mhz.
That still means Intel have potential to run better with faster memory.
 
Jul 29, 2013
1,251
1,301
615
Oregon, US
5700 XT is about 5% faster than 2060S, and has messed up overclocking, so either flat gains or up to 5% oc. Like I suspected the 2060S was right on it's ass after oc and AMD had to do a price drop. Looks like 219W average gaming consumption with 227W peak. Real tight power management on these cards compared to old AMD. 5700 XT loses to 2060S by about 3% in TW3 and beats it by 7% in Wolf II. Those are the engines I'm interested in as I'll be playing a ton of DOOM Eternal and Cyberpunk.

5700 XT is not a bad card, but I wouldn't touch the blower models and the OC being broken is not good. This is sooo RX 480 vs GTX 1060 release redux.

Just got to acoustics, like everybody who knows was saying, the blower is shit...


Real question becomes how much are the partner AiBs going to run? This blower shit is a hard pass.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Coulomb_Barrier

MrTickles

Member
Feb 22, 2018
2,967
3,894
650
I've done some digging. TLDR; AMD's navi architecture is still inferior to Nvidia's latest, but the generational process shrink is a big boost and finally makes AMD competitive with nvidia on the high end. If nvidia shrunk their latest offerings to 7nm they would pull way ahead. Means it won't be hard for Nvidia to do a good refresh.
 
Last edited:
Jun 9, 2012
3,864
1,588
760
RT even on RTX cards is expensive but features like that are still interesting. I remember my Geforce 3, shaders killed performance on that GPU the same way as RT on RTX cards (half life 2 70-80fps in DX7 mode, 20-30fps DX8 settings), so rather than playing in 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 at 40-60fps without shaders I had to play in 1024x768 or even 800x600 (splinter cell 1) with shaders at around 30fps, but it was still fun to see new effects in games that pushed graphic quality above DX7 rather than seeing screenshots in magazines.



In 1080p it's possible to play with 30fps and even 60fps.

Because PS5/xbox scarlett will both have HW RT I'm guessing it will be impossible to run these console games at console settings on GPU's without HW RT, and maybe even these games will not run at all. On the other hand 8GB VRAM on RTX cards can be a problem too, because if next gen consoles will have over 20GB RAM, so we will see over 10GB VRAM requirements in games for sure. So no matter if you buy RX 5700 or 2060/2070 Super, these GPU's will be good only till PS5/scarlett will launch.
My prediction: once next-gen consoles/RDNA 2 come out, all the people shitting on RTX will suddenly proclaim RT to be the next great frontier in gaming graphics, even though their RT performance will be on par with the RTX cards we have today.

Just watch.
 

sircaw

Neo Member
Jul 3, 2019
16
18
105
Skirting threw alot of these reviews this launch looks excellent, Are there some problems here and there, sure there are but i think the positives for the consumer really makes up for it. As i said i'm not pc gamer anymore but am so excited knowing this tech will be in the new consoles. I am actually over joyed at what can be crammed into next generation consoles.

The only big negative for me with these cards are their cooling I just wish they had custom cooling designs from people like sapphire or Powercooler as i am sure those are going to being better by a long shot.

It's a great day for lovers of Graphics tech i think.



.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thelastword
Jul 29, 2013
1,251
1,301
615
Oregon, US
This has already happened, so not much of a prediction. :messenger_tongue: DOOM Eternal I think is gonna be the moment that RTX really comes into it's own. Hyper-realistic demon reflections on futuristic metal surfaces and random space fluid on the ground could really add to the immersion. 2060S should be good for 1080p/Ultra/60fps with RTX enabled.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ivellios

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
498
365
255
My prediction: once next-gen consoles/RDNA 2 come out, all the people shitting on RTX will suddenly proclaim RT to be the next great frontier in gaming graphics, even though their RT performance will be on par with the RTX cards we have today.

Just watch.
Probably true... Just like right now every nVidia fan is excessively promoting RT just because AMD doesn't have it, while last year everyone was shitting on it.
 

TLZ

Member
Oct 20, 2015
6,054
3,255
740
Sydney
Can someone explain to me how the 5700 7.5tf card beats the Vega64 12.7tf card by a good margin? That's 5.2tf less. 36 cu beating 64 cu. Does that mean 1 Navi cu = 2 gcn cu? Because of the dual cu thing?
 
Last edited:

~Fake

Gold Member
Dec 20, 2018
2,497
2,255
525
Rio de Janeiro
Can someone explain to me how the 5700 7.5tf card beats the Vega64 12.7tf card by a good margin? That's 5.2tf less. 36 cu beating 64 cu. Does that mean 1 Navi cu = 2 gcn cu? Because of the dual cu thing?
I think so. Had a mention on 'next gen' thread if I remember right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLZ

pawel86ck

Member
Jan 27, 2018
546
481
285

That's the li k to summary, Google translate should be ok
Very good site but keep in mind purepc.pl and pclab.pl both test games in the most demanding locations they can find, so results will look much worse here compared to other sites. Personally I like their methodology because based on their demanding benchmarks I know for a fact what to expect from any given GPU/CPU hardware. When I bought my last GPU the vast majority sites suggested I will have around 82-90fps in GTA5 at 4K, but in reality there were frequent dips to around 35-45fps in grassy areas, and only pclab and purepc tests mentioned dips like that.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Mar 31, 2006
4,420
291
1,215
Midlands, UK
Can someone explain to me how the 5700 7.5tf card beats the Vega64 12.7tf card by a good margin? That's 5.2tf less. 36 cu beating 64 cu. Does that mean 1 Navi cu = 2 gcn cu? Because of the dual cu thing?
Very simply (as I understand it) Navi RDNA is game performance focused and Vega compute focused. I'm sure others can give a more detailed technical answer, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLZ

TLZ

Member
Oct 20, 2015
6,054
3,255
740
Sydney
Very simply (as I understand it) Navi RDNA is game performance focused and Vega compute focused. I'm sure others can give a more detailed technical answer, though.
I'm asking because if we see a lower single digit TF from next gen consoles, we shouldn't be disappointed. Just see what the 7.5TF card is doing beating 12.7TF. Now imagine 9+, and in well-optimized-for consoles. I feel good about this now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Mar 31, 2006
4,420
291
1,215
Midlands, UK
I'm asking because if we see a lower single digit TF from next gen consoles, we shouldn't be disappointed. Just see what the 7.5TF card is doing beating 12.7TF. Now imagine 9+, and in well-optimized-for consoles. I feel good about this now.
This exact point has been debated since we found out about RDNA. Still there are those that expect 11TF or even 14TF!
 

TLZ

Member
Oct 20, 2015
6,054
3,255
740
Sydney
This exact point has been debated since we found out about RDNA. Still there are those that expect 11TF or even 14TF!
Well I wouldn't say no :p

But after seeing these results I'm ok with 9+. This RDNA stuff really does look the business.
 

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
498
365
255
Can someone explain to me how the 5700 7.5tf card beats the Vega64 12.7tf card by a good margin? That's 5.2tf less. 36 cu beating 64 cu. Does that mean 1 Navi cu = 2 gcn cu? Because of the dual cu thing?
They increased efficiency with the architecture. Short version is, what took 4 clock cycles on Vega and prior GCN cards now takes one.
 
Last edited:
Jun 9, 2012
3,864
1,588
760
This has already happened, so not much of a prediction. :messenger_tongue: DOOM Eternal I think is gonna be the moment that RTX really comes into it's own. Hyper-realistic demon reflections on futuristic metal surfaces and random space fluid on the ground could really add to the immersion. 2060S should be good for 1080p/Ultra/60fps with RTX enabled.
thelastword 2018: RTX adds zero value. Nobody wants to game at 1080p 60 FPS. What a joke.

thelastword 2020: 5800XT is amazing! Real time raytracing at 1080p 60 FPS is now a reality!!! And literally nobody cares that it consumes 350 watts except for blind Nvidia fanboys.

(Except it’ll take him 15 incoherent paragraphs to say that. And every sentence will end with an ellipsis.)
 
Feb 15, 2013
6,867
463
540
London
They increased efficiency with the architecture. Short version is, what took 4 clock cycles on Vega and prior GCN cards now takes one.
It's massively more efficient.

This is why I told people, correctly again I might add, that basing AMD Navi on Radeon 7 performance per watt was crazy, as that is a re-purposed Pro MI60 card given gaming drivers.

RDNA arch is much more focused on gaming.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Panajev2001a
Feb 17, 2019
221
227
230
33
Manches, Amsterdam, Berlin
Not too bad, but the reference blower cooler is just as loud as I expected it to be in comments I made earlier this week. Same goes for the power comsuption which is overall slightly disappointing considering those are 7nm products but you can definitely see improvements over the Vega architecture with Navi being 10% slower but consuming 25-30% less power.
Still not quite as good as 12nm Nvidia cards, but for most people in the world living in countries with fair electricity prices those might not be much of an issue.

If custom cards can keep the $399 price tag then those could be okay-ish cards for budget builds.
 

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
498
365
255


Partner AIB cards will close the gap even more. MSI Gaming 5700XT or whatever will probably be ~5% slower than 2070S.
Indeed... And a good reminder here is that the 5700XT costs the same as the 2060 Super, and the 5700 the same as the plain 2060.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: noonjam

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
498
365
255
This is particularly interesting... While Anandtech was testing the different aspects, Navi is weaker at everything compared to Vega, except FP texture fillrate... The Navi cards lose in Tessellation, Pixel fillrate, Integer texture fillrate, INT8 buffer compression and FP32 buffer compression. And then...;





Also, when they tested Metro Exodus, the Navi cards actually did quite well, while at other sites they didn't. On the other websites, Hairworks, which uses tessellation, is likely hampering the Navi cards, since Anandtech specifically disabled hairworks, other websites most likely didn't.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Mar 31, 2014
9,078
1,121
710
Last edited: