• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

AMD's Radeon Navi Review Thread: Series 5700.

Ivellios

Member
Mar 26, 2015
1,404
779
520
Brazil
You can't go wrong with a 2070S or a 5700XT. In regards to ray tracing on a 2070 or 2060, keep in mind you are not going to see ray tracing at it's best. I call them "ray tracing preview cards" Sure it works and you can get an idea of how it will work once it reaches it full potential, but you will have to drop the resolution to see that preview. I'm inclined to believe that most 2060S and 2070 owners might turn on ray tracing to see what the fuss is about and then turn it off once they realize it's not worth the performance penalty.

It's your call and you'll get a great gaming card regardless.
My maximum GPU budget is $400, so its either 5700, 5700xt or 2060S to be paired with a Ryzen 3600 or 3700x

As for resolution, currently i only have a 1080p monitor for now.
 

Remij

Member
Apr 23, 2009
2,187
158
835
And you're probably the only person that cares.
You can ignore it for now... until Nvidia's 7nm GPUs come...

Again... people are talking about how GREAT it is that AMD is able to be competitive and match Nvidia finally... It just took around a year and a node shrink to get there. I mean if AMD was competitive with Nvidia when Nvidia actually launched their shit than maybe their prices wouldn't be so ridiculous...

I have no issue with people being happy with getting a good gpu for a good price. But acting like the company is amazing or something for matching their competition's old shit almost a year later on a newer process node?

Consider me NOT impressed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ethomaz

JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
Jan 20, 2014
9,264
2,586
800
You can ignore it for now... until Nvidia's 7nm GPUs come...
Wow! You mean something better is coming along?

And here everyone buying a Navi GPU was thinking that it was going to carry them to the end of time.

On a serious note:
Yes, nvidia's 7nm is very much something to keep an eye on. Maybe AMD will get lucky and nvidia will have a tougher time transitioning to 7nm.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Guilhermegrg

Ivellios

Member
Mar 26, 2015
1,404
779
520
Brazil
You can ignore it for now... until Nvidia's 7nm GPUs come...

Again... people are talking about how GREAT it is that AMD is able to be competitive and match Nvidia finally... It just took around a year and a node shrink to get there. I mean if AMD was competitive with Nvidia when Nvidia actually launched their shit than maybe their prices wouldn't be so ridiculous...

I have no issue with people being happy with getting a good gpu for a good price. But acting like the company is amazing or something for matching their competition's old shit almost a year later on a newer process node?

Consider me NOT impressed.
But isnt AMD smaller than Nvidia? If they dont have the same budget for R&D i think they are actually doing a great job all things considered.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guilhermegrg

Remij

Member
Apr 23, 2009
2,187
158
835
Wow! You mean something better is coming along?

And here everyone buying a Navi GPU was thinking that it was going to carry them to the end of time.
Yes... and AMD will have to hope and pray that another node shrink will save them "pie_tears_joy:

And you wonder why Nvidia runs this shit.. lmao. Use your god damn head. Bu buut something better will come along!!@! Yea, something better will come along from AMD again.... another year after Nvidia and will only then match the competition again.
 
Last edited:

JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
Jan 20, 2014
9,264
2,586
800
Yes... and AMD will have to hope and pray that another node shrink will save them "pie_tears_joy:

And you wonder why Nvidia runs this shit.. lmao. Use your god damn head. Bu buut something better will come along!!@! Yea, something better will come along from AMD again.... another year after Nvidia and will only then match the competition again.
And this ladies and gentlemen is where you know you've lost an argument. Has to result to insults.

JohnnyFootball : 1 Remji : 0

Thanks for playing.
 

Remij

Member
Apr 23, 2009
2,187
158
835
So what? Who's embarassed?

"Man, this GPU is 7nm and offers slightly better performance than a 12nm. I'm totally embarassed and crushed"

- stuff no rational gamer ever said
AMD should be.

Why can't a person with no horse in this race make an honest observation about the superiority of on architecture over the other? Does it make you feel better to say that it doesn't matter... when in fact is has implications for the future?

I mean just speak rationally about both products.. One has a few distinct technological advantages over the other... and despite that.. is slightly worse performing coming almost a year later.

I'm sure you'll edit your next post after I reply like you have all your others too :messenger_grinning_squinting:
 
  • Like
Reactions: ethomaz

Remij

Member
Apr 23, 2009
2,187
158
835
And this ladies and gentlemen is where you know you've lost an argument. Has to result to insults.

JohnnyFootball : 1 Remji : 0

Thanks for playing.
Telling you to use your head is having to result to insults?

Man you must be easily offended rofl
 

thelastword

Member
Apr 7, 2006
8,160
1,994
1,380
Hey guys, where is Leonidas? He must be crushed today with all this AMD goodness, I expect he must be really deflated after that Hardware Unboxed video from the Benchmark King....Has he made a FUD thread to do any countering of the good CPU+GPU news yet???
 

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
498
365
255
You can ignore it for now... until Nvidia's 7nm GPUs come...

Again... people are talking about how GREAT it is that AMD is able to be competitive and match Nvidia finally... It just took around a year and a node shrink to get there. I mean if AMD was competitive with Nvidia when Nvidia actually launched their shit than maybe their prices wouldn't be so ridiculous...

I have no issue with people being happy with getting a good gpu for a good price. But acting like the company is amazing or something for matching their competition's old shit almost a year later on a newer process node?

Consider me NOT impressed.
Is that what you said when they released the GTX 1650 that needed to compete against the RX 570?
 

Solomeena

Member
Jan 8, 2018
1,028
1,274
395
You can ignore it for now... until Nvidia's 7nm GPUs come...

Again... people are talking about how GREAT it is that AMD is able to be competitive and match Nvidia finally... It just took around a year and a node shrink to get there. I mean if AMD was competitive with Nvidia when Nvidia actually launched their shit than maybe their prices wouldn't be so ridiculous...

I have no issue with people being happy with getting a good gpu for a good price. But acting like the company is amazing or something for matching their competition's old shit almost a year later on a newer process node?

Consider me NOT impressed.

How has AMD matched Nvidia? AMD as far as i know has not and will not beat 2080Ti.
 

thelastword

Member
Apr 7, 2006
8,160
1,994
1,380
I prefer Sapphire model to be honest.
I think we will get some good cards from everywhere, they're weren't trying before with AMD AIB's, except Sapphire, but they are now...Didn't you see some of the leaked cards from various vendors? There will even be some watercooled solutions too....

Having said that, I still think Sapphire will have one of the best cards....

FYI: Please remember that in volkan games amd cpu's might show wrong fps and are bad for benchmarking like wolfenstein and doom.
Hopefully that's fixed too, I think the new drivers fixes an issue in these games with Radeon Overlay. Hopefully it's fixed with other OSD programs as well...

Skirting threw alot of these reviews this launch looks excellent, Are there some problems here and there, sure there are but i think the positives for the consumer really makes up for it. As i said i'm not pc gamer anymore but am so excited knowing this tech will be in the new consoles. I am actually over joyed at what can be crammed into next generation consoles.

The only big negative for me with these cards are their cooling I just wish they had custom cooling designs from people like sapphire or Powercooler as i am sure those are going to being better by a long shot.

It's a great day for lovers of Graphics tech i think.
There are AIB cards coming soon from what I've heard, last I heard was 8 weeks, but some people say we may get AIB cards in 4 weeks.....AMD did it's homework this time....

Can someone explain to me how the 5700 7.5tf card beats the Vega64 12.7tf card by a good margin? That's 5.2tf less. 36 cu beating 64 cu. Does that mean 1 Navi cu = 2 gcn cu? Because of the dual cu thing?
New architecture built for just gaming...…..Vega Cards were heavy compute cards, but certain efficiencies for the gaming pipeline during development was never realized. Remember, during Vega's development, lots of personnel were shifted before it launched, to work on NAVI/RDNA, but not just NAVI in what you're getting here today with the 5700/XT, but what comes with Navi 20, with the patented solution you saw recently for raytracing with AMD (software+hardware), that significantly minimizes the heavy cost to rez and frames you see on Turing......I think it was worth it

So yes, Vega was plenty powerful, the high TF count was real, but setback by the transport system.....You see how Navi takes much less cycles to complete a task, how it reduces idle cycles, has many concurrent cycles. That was one of Vega's issues, there are times 25-50% of it's streaming processors were there idle not being utilized...Now sometimes you saw some glimpses of Vega's raw power, where it even beat the 2080ti, like in Strange Brigade, World War Z, Dirt etc....The raw power was there, but the architecture was not quite finished to deliver the gaming results consistently across all games...….Navi is a different beast entirely....It can only get better with the Navi 20 iteration.....For consoles and RT PC GPU's.....

AMD said RT wouldn't arrive until the next RDNA release, but they didn't say these cards would not support it. Maybe they simply can't advertise it now since the drivers are not ready for DXR suport. Because that physics score really is interesting... I wouldn't be surprised if these cards ended up supporting it, at least on the software side.

Not that I would recommend anyone to count on it. These cards are better value at this point though.
Vega, 1st Gen Navi will all have support of Radeon Rays.....It has already been demoed by Crytek.....

Ordered the Sapphire 5700XT looking forward to it.
AIB cards should be great...….Remember, Steve got a 20% OC on the blower card, with the fans at 100%......And I told folk these blowers would do 2000Mhz easily, apparently, the clocks were averaging 2050 with the OC, went up to 2070+. With Axial fans or water-cooling, I remember saying we would get over 2100Mhz with those, so those AIB's will be swell....What's more is that some of the driver issues we had with 1% lows was boosted with overclocking...….So there are some driver issues for sure, but what Steve got relative to the OC is very promising, the temps and clocks AIB's will be able to deliver, even on the 5700 is something to look forward to. Some say the 5700 may have a clock lock in the high 1800's, so we shall see how things unfold, probably is the driver they used.…...Btw a new driver has already been released...

Personally, I'm here with bated breath to see some of the Radeon Features, AMD-anti-lag and Fidelity FX by Tim at Hardware Unboxed....Lots of cool info to come in the coming weeks... I think people should be stoked for Fidelity FX, though anti-lag should net returns mostly in DOTA and E-sports titles....

But isnt AMD smaller than Nvidia? If they dont have the same budget for R&D i think they are actually doing a great job all things considered.
Yes, they're leading the charge, whilst Nvidia and it's fans sit pretty thinking they can't be touched....AMD is out there doing heavy R&D and thinking many steps ahead, they have a roadmap that spans way into the future, not just for Ryzen, but for RDNA/NAVI as well...….To push raytracing, you need to think out the box, to push 8k etc....120fps in a few years.....We need something like AMD's Infinity Fabric for GPU's and that's what they've been working on too.....So when people say.....Hey, Nvidia will be on 7nm in 2020, AMD was there since early this year, they heading into 5nm, 3nm territory with IF, they've already set their foundation for their roadmap, in that way, they will always be a step ahead of what consumers demand.
 

Al3x1s

Gold Member
Nov 24, 2018
2,071
1,431
475
Meh, to me personally until AMD catches Nvidia at the high end GPU performance it's all just a nothing burger. The only people who will care about the mid range cards are AMD zealots.
I mean, don't mid range cards sell more than the top end (and less than the low end cards)? Unless you don't think of people who buy mid range GPUs as PC gamers. Might as well side with leonidas and pimp how Intel has the gaming CPU crown because of their one overpriced top end model even though the vast majority of PC gamers will opt for something that costs a ton less and can still run all the games they will wish to. Why would I, for example, care that there's a Super Titan I'll (personally, you do you) never wish to waste money on out there if I go for a card that costs half that, why would I in this scenario side with the company that has the Super Titan by default even though that's not the one I'm getting rather than the company that has the better price/perf ratio on the price range I'll actually go for (which could be the same company still, this is a hypothetical scenario, but I'll certainly do the comparison on the products I actually might buy, not their bigger cousin I'll never even consider)? Having the fastest card is certainly good for PR (just like leonidas is head over heels for intel over their top end model, price be damned) but most enthusiasts can know better.

Which isn't to say the current situation is such, just commenting on that point alone. I have a 1080 and I'm still happy with it for the price I got it back then (it wasn't during the mining craze, I got a decent deal I think for around 450 EUR iirc, far from the higher end models I wouldn't ever touch).
 
Last edited:

octiny

Member
Jan 11, 2018
625
833
365
Meh, to me personally until AMD catches Nvidia at the high end GPU performance it's all just a nothing burger. The only people who will care about the mid range cards are AMD zealots.
Um, outside of budget cards, mid-range cards are the biggest sellers on the market for both companies.
 
Last edited:

joe_zazen

Member
May 2, 2017
1,269
809
355
How can the price of a gpu be embarrassing? And who should be embarrassed by it? I want to tweet at them to let them know that this is what they should be feeling and why.
 

PocoJoe

Member
Jul 9, 2018
276
218
240
thelastword 2018: RTX adds zero value. Nobody wants to game at 1080p 60 FPS. What a joke.

thelastword 2020: 5800XT is amazing! Real time raytracing at 1080p 60 FPS is now a reality!!! And literally nobody cares that it consumes 350 watts except for blind Nvidia fanboys.

(Except it’ll take him 15 incoherent paragraphs to say that. And every sentence will end with an ellipsis.)
Pay 1400€ 2080ti to get 1080p 30/60fps 2019

Pay 500-700€ amd 2020 card to get 1080p/60fps

Of course it would be amazing, simple logic.

If 2080ti would cost half of what it does, it would be amazing too.

But now it is just over priced card to get barely usable RT.

If next gen consoles offer 1080/30 with good RT = I'm Happy
 

llien

Gold Member
Feb 1, 2017
5,396
2,504
680
How are AMD's drivers nowadays?
whatyearitis.gif

Since at least Crimson release, better than nvs.

It just took around a year and a node shrink to get there.
With a tiny fraction of market share and tiny fraction of R&D budget that is also spent on CPUs. and console specific semi-customs.


Did Nvidia need 12nm to compete with the RX570? :messenger_grinning_squinting:
No, it merely needed clueless buyers, who bought 1050/1050Ti/1650 over a much faster, similarly priced, card.

I don't know how old you are, AMD was historically the first to embrace new process node.
When NV comes, it will be a refined process, with higher yields and even lower power consumption, it wouldn't be a fair comparison.
It's a different strategic concept, both make sense, both have trade-offs.
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: SonGoku and Ascend

R600

Member
Jun 17, 2019
319
203
195
So putting 290 cooler on Navi results in max temps of 64C and higher framerate.

I think AIB cards should be very good. Probably better coolee, higher maintained clocks and around ~5% better framerate.
 

R600

Member
Jun 17, 2019
319
203
195
HardwareUnboxed were so impressed by these Navi cards they've labelled them the go-to cards for anyone spending under $700. They are performance per dollar kings.

What's also exciting is the 5700XT offers 2070 Super-like performance (only 6% slower at 1440p) for $100 less.
And as I said, AMD reference cards have been worst then Nvidias. I expect AIB cards to be not only cooler and quiter, but to maintain better clocks therefore higher frame rates.

If 290 cooler on Navi is anything to go by, 5700 should match 2060S and XT 2070S.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guilhermegrg
Feb 15, 2013
6,867
463
540
London
How has AMD matched Nvidia? AMD as far as i know has not and will not beat 2080Ti.
Mid-range only.

The 5700 non XT is more efficient than Nvidia's yet to be released 2060 Super and 2060 vanilla. That's a huge turnaround. The 5700XT basically matches the 2070 Super in efficiency.

Remember, efficiency is Nvidia's stronghold that was unassailable pre-RDNA (certainly GCN could never get close, even on 7nm).
 

thelastword

Member
Apr 7, 2006
8,160
1,994
1,380
After watching many reviews, the 5700XT is a beast of a card, it's right up there with the 1080ti in many titles...It's a pretty good card for 4k gaming on high and only with 40 CU's too, this is a massive win for AMD here. Can't wait to see this card with better coolers and mature drivers......At 2100-2200Mhz on the core this card should sing.....

Also, need to see some undervolting and some overclocking benchmarks......Steve did an OC but never did any benchmarks with it...




Anyway, here's a $350 AMD card vs a $350 NVIDIA card, paired with a Ryzen 3600...

Radeon 5700 vs RTX 2060

 
Feb 15, 2013
6,867
463
540
London
And as I said, AMD reference cards have been worst then Nvidias. I expect AIB cards to be not only cooler and quiter, but to maintain better clocks therefore higher frame rates.

If 290 cooler on Navi is anything to go by, 5700 should match 2060S and XT 2070S.
Yeah, looking at the benches, a good AIB 5700XT overclocked is going to be faster than a Radeon VII even, and faster than a stock 1080 Ti and 2070 Super. This is my next card to replace my 1070 Ti.

The 5700XT is managing this performance level with only 40 CUs too. Imagine a 64 CU Navi (or rumours suggest 64 compute units might not be the max with RDNA but beyond this number) clocked at 2000 core clock (XT is 1900 already). If performance scales up decently, we'll be looking at performance between a 2080 and 2080 Ti, probably land around the same as the yet-to-be-seen 2080 Super.
 

Kenpachii

Member
Mar 23, 2018
1,658
1,168
435
Reality check for AMD fanboys thinking these cards could have launched at the original price.

And that's the issue i got with AMD. I just started to call it AMD jank.

The hardware is solid, price is still to much in my opinion specially when you got to deal with AMD janky drivers and software support.
 
Last edited:
Feb 15, 2013
6,867
463
540
London
Low minimums likely to be fixed by drivers.

In summary for the 5700XT -

- Similar performance to 2070 Super/1080 Ti (around 6% slower)
- Efficiency neck and neck with Turing
- Cheaper prices than competing cards
- Great OC headroom

Not great reference cards doesn't take away from this being AMD's best card launch since the Volcanic Islands 200-series (290/X).

The two big things are efficiency matching Nvidia's best whilst offering similar performance and good OC potential for once.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joshwaan and Ascend

llien

Gold Member
Feb 1, 2017
5,396
2,504
680
MSI is preparing... seven custom 5700 cards ("EVOKE OC", chuckle), three 5700 and four 5700XT:


 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CrustyBritches

ethomaz

Member
Mar 19, 2013
24,287
3,444
800
37
Brazil
You can ignore it for now... until Nvidia's 7nm GPUs come...

Again... people are talking about how GREAT it is that AMD is able to be competitive and match Nvidia finally... It just took around a year and a node shrink to get there. I mean if AMD was competitive with Nvidia when Nvidia actually launched their shit than maybe their prices wouldn't be so ridiculous...

I have no issue with people being happy with getting a good gpu for a good price. But acting like the company is amazing or something for matching their competition's old shit almost a year later on a newer process node?

Consider me NOT impressed.
Actually a correction... AMD is nowhere marching nVidia with Navi... they just released a product for mid-end that is an option in that segment due constants price cuts before launch that add nothing innovative to the market.

AMD relied on a new die shrink to do that and the performance was below what most expected before launch and it didn't even matched own AMD arch launched early this year.

In my view Radeon VII still delivery better perf/dollar.

Edit - Fixed the part about Radeon VII... misread a graph.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Evilms

JCK75

Member
Apr 19, 2018
674
609
380
Navi feels like First Gen Ryzen, doesn't really kill the competition but offers way more value for your dollars (and finally the power consumption is at a reasonable level).
I'll stick with my 1080ti at home but when prices drop more I may consider a 5700 to replacing my GTX 1060 at work.
 

llien

Gold Member
Feb 1, 2017
5,396
2,504
680
Perf scaling with PCIe, basically, not worth it:





x470 mainboards also doing quite well vs x570:

 
  • Like
Reactions: Guilhermegrg

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
498
365
255
He's not wrong....
The list might not be wrong. But basing your purchase decisions on DLSS, Crossfire/SLI and a backplate is retarded. Even though I didn't highlight RT, that is still a stupid reason at this point in time to go for mid range cards.