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[GSG Flash]

Again, if your child is at least 2 years old, the FAA doesn't just approve a car seat, it requires you to bring a car seat in order to get on the plane.

Is that still inconsiderate?

I think you actually just don't understand airplane safety regulations.

Oh I understand them fine, I'm more of the opinion that if the FAA wants to approve special seats for children, they should take into consideration the fact that their already approved regular seat sizes for everyone else leave very little room for movement and massive car seats will restrict that movement even further. Honestly, more appropriately sized airplane specific child safety seats makes more sense than just allowing car seats carte blanche.

Shame on the people defending the recliner in this thread and accusing the mom of being selfish for taking care of her son.



Oh look, victim blaming and law breaking GAF at its best.

:lol victim blaming and law breaking, looks like hyperbole GAF is out at full force.

You know, in general it is a pet peeve of mine when people who choose to have kids thinks everyone should inconvenience themselves cause they have kids (therefore are more important than you). I mean I hate those huge strollers that take up the whole aisle in grocery stores or on the sidewalk for example and I'm not that sympathetic towards stuff like that. And I admit my first impulse if I were in that situation (being the person who wanted to recline) my first reaction would be to be annoyed at the person bringing in a large carseat (Until I got myself to think more rationally about it). But.....

It is safer for the kid to be in a carseat and strapped in than in her lap. The reason airlines want you to put your seatbelt on is cause of turbulence that can throw you up right into the ceiling if bad enough. That can kill an adult person (hits on the head don't have to be too hard to kill you). And a kid on a lap is not that safe (I mean mom relaxes one bit and turbulance hits... bam). So I can understand why one would want a kid in a car seat. It's a lot safer for the baby. In this case, I do think the baby's safety trumps some one's comfort. This isn't inconviencing some one just for their convenience, this is because they are trying to make it safe for their baby.

It sux for the person reclining and maybe they can switch with some one who doesn't care they don't want to recline. And honestly, that is what the airline should have done is try to see if some one would switch with that person (The one who wanted to recline). But, sometimes that's how it is. Some one there was going to have to compromise and in that case, safety comes first. It's just too bad the stewardess didn't think about maybe seeing if some one who didn't care about reclining was willing to switch and therefore everyone wins.

I understand what you're saying, but then the FAA should mandate that every child under 2 years of age must sit in their own separate seat, but they seem to leave that discretion to the parents. The fact remains that right now most parents carry babies on their laps in the plane and I've never experienced(or even heard of) any child getting injured as a result. I have experienced(on my flight yesterday actually) someone getting sick as a result of sitting still in a tight space and requiring medical attention.

 

[Blue Submarine No. 6]

Reading this thread.... *shakes head

You know, probably the best commercial flight of my life - the one I enjoyed the most - was a Disney World charter we took with the kids when they were 11 & 9 years old... Just us and three kids on a plane filled to the bulkheads with parents and kids off to Disney... it was chaos! it was madness! it was a party!!

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

Reading this thread.... *shakes head

You know, probably the best commercial flight of my life - the one I enjoyed the most - was a Disney World charter we took with the kids when they were 11 & 9 years old... Just us and three kids on a plane filled to the bulkheads with parents and kids off to Disney... it was chaos! it was madness! it was a party!!

And a chartered plane with 11 year olds is comparable to this situation how?

 

[HawksWinStanley]

Seat recliners and babies on airplanes? My two hatreds combining. My world may explode.

This for days.

I never recline my seat unless the one behind me is empty. That shouldn't even be a thing on planes. If you don't like it then don't fly coach. It's already cramped enough, you don't need to ruin someone else's flight further by taking away more of the little space they have.

Reading this thread.... *shakes head

You know, probably the best commercial flight of my life - the one I enjoyed the most - was a Disney World charter we took with the kids when they were 11 & 9 years old... Just us and three kids on a plane filled to the bulkheads with parents and kids off to Disney... it was chaos! it was madness! it was a party!!

Sounds like a disease ridden nightmare.

 

[poppabk]

I understand what you're saying, but then the FAA should mandate that every child under 2 years of age must sit in their own separate seat, but they seem to leave that discretion to the parents. The fact remains that right now most parents carry babies on their laps in the plane and I've never experienced(or even heard of) any child getting injured as a result. I have experienced(on my flight yesterday actually) someone getting sick as a result of sitting still in a tight space and requiring medical attention.

So you are against reclining seats and against car seats that prevent reclining?

 

[CTLance]

Jeez.

Hope she can legally dropkick AA in the nuts. Seriously, the mom did everything right and the flight attendant and airline wronged her at virtually every turn.

Reading through the first page was rough. Right to recline, my ass. Some people, sheesh.

 

[Tigress]

I understand what you're saying, but then the FAA should mandate that every child under 2 years of age must sit in their own separate seat, but they seem to leave that discretion to the parents. The fact remains that right now most parents carry babies on their laps in the plane and I've never experienced(or even heard of) any child getting injured as a result. I have experienced(on my flight yesterday actually) someone getting sick as a result of sitting still in a tight space and requiring medical attention.

I've never experienced turbulance that throws you up in the air. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Just cause you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I haven't experienced my plane crashing either... does that mean that doesn't happen either?

And I doubt reclining would have helped that person... getting up and taking a walk might help as well as drinking a lot of water (helps in case of blood clots). Reclining doesn't give you that much more room to move around and you still are going to be sitting still a long time. It's actually worse on your back in the long run to sit reclined. Turbulance happens a lot more than some one getting sick from sitting still so long.

 

[Skele7on]

If I'm getting up to go to the bathroom, your seat is finding itself back in the upright position when I sit back down, unless you weigh like four hundred pounds and/or preemptively brace your legs against a static surface. And if you're starting ninja bracing maneuvers to retain your recline at my expense after strategically waiting for me to pee, then we likely have a personal problem to resolve at that point and you'll not be looking like the person being fucked with, with your feet up against some surface holding your breath and pushing your butt down.

And that kids is how I met your mother.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Whenever someone pulls that shit on me I politely ask them to put it back. They always have.

It's a shit thing to do, basically, "my comfort is more important than the comfort of the person behind me."

 

[OG Kush]

Whats wrong with reclining the seat? Complaint to the airlines, not the person. Also surely you can just recline your seat as well.. and so on.

 

[Fusebox]

AA fucked up, they let some pricks "right" to recline take priority over mandated infant safety. I hope the mum gets paid and puts the cash aside for the kids college.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Whats wrong with reclining the seat? Complaint to the airlines, not the person. Also surely you can just recline your seat as well.. and so on.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the reply of a person who has not read the OP. At all.

 

[Dalek]

Never mind

 

[Tigress]

Whenever someone pulls that shit on me I politely ask them to put it back. They always have.

It's a shit thing to do, basically, "my comfort is more important than the comfort of the person behind me."

This has nothing to do with the topic (Which is more a topic of comfort vs. safety). That aside... why is your comfort more important than the comfort of the person in front of you. It goes both ways.

 

[zelas]

Seems like her beef is all with AA. Why is the stranger being dragged into this for doing what they're allowed to do? For what they paid for?

 

[Tragicomedy]

This has nothing to do with the topic (Which is more a topic of comfort vs. safety). That aside... why is your comfort more important than the comfort of the person in front of you. It goes both ways.

It doesn't. If you leave your chair upright, you are in the same exact position as the person behind you. When you lean it back into their knees, especially a very tall person like me, you have now caused a significant amount of discomfort for others.

There is no equating the benefit you get from a minor recline with the discomfort you cause someone by jamming your chair into them. It's not the same and should not be weighted equally.

I'm like EviLore, though, nobody is leaning their chair back in front of me. It's physically impossible, and you got a brick wall when you try. Nothing malicious on my end, just my long legs. I will not have you jammed into my knees the entire flight for your comfort. I did purchase tickets for our next trip on Delta's comfort plus option, so I'm hoping that extra 4" of seat room makes it work for me and the person in front of me. We'll see.

 

[MikeDip]

You're wrong. The seat recliner person is in the wrong. The flight attendant is in the wrong. People need to be more caring and understanding.

It's a 7 month old baby, their safety is more important than another person's comfort. A flight from Honolulu to Los Angeles is about 5 hours, that's not a long time and the seat recliner should have just dealt with it.

You misread what I said, that comment was not in regards to this situation or child seats in general. Just people holding babies

 

[Fusebox]

Seems like her beef is all with AA. Why is the stranger being dragged into this for doing what they're allowed to do? For what they paid for?

Fuck that stranger. If my seat didn't recline because a baby seat was behind I wouldn't ask the airline to move the fucking baby seat coz I'm not a heartless cunt.

 

[MikeDip]

Fuck that stranger. If my seat didn't recline because a baby seat was behind I wouldn't ask the airline to move the fucking baby seat coz I'm not a heartless cunt.

I agree that if I was the passenger I would let the baby win my reclining battle.

But for this case that baby being there at all was a safety hazard. Should have been moved right away regardless.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Switch her seats with those in the first row. Problem solved.

 

[Stinkles]

Seems like her beef is all with AA. Why is the stranger being dragged into this for doing what they're allowed to do? For what they paid for?

It seems like we have one side of a three sided story. Four if you include the other passengers. And it doesn't sound right.

 

[Stumpokapow]

The problem here is not the seat recliner (who paid extra for more space) or the parent (who paid extra for their kid) but the major lack of dignity and comfort associated with flying and the legendarily bad way airlines handle customer service issues. Airlines should be more tightly regulated because industry self-regulation has failed and consumer groups are not a viable lobbying alternative to industry interests. Moreover the cost of entry is high enough and industry behaviour cartelized enough that new competitive entrants are unlikely.

 

[Lenz44]

Why didn't she just switch seats with the baby (long as the person in front of her didn't want to decline. Not everyone declines their seat). That way both sides are happy.

FAA rules say that the car seat can only be in the window seat, so a baby in a seat has to be in that spot on a row.

 

[MikeDip]

The problem here is not the seat recliner (who paid extra for more space) or the parent (who paid extra for their kid) but the major lack of dignity and comfort associated with flying and the legendarily bad way airlines handle customer service issues. Airlines should be more tightly regulated because industry self-regulation has failed and consumer groups are not a viable lobbying alternative to industry interests. Moreover the cost of entry is high enough and industry behaviour cartelized enough that new competitive entrants are unlikely.

I'm not american and also don't know much about planes. Is this airline regarded as lower tier? What is the bottom of the barrel airline when thinking about domestic flights in America?

 

[H.Protagonist]

The great baby debate continues. I still say it's the airline's fault hands-down, not the mom or recliner, but the anti-baby crowd is kind of disheartening. You guys know that sometimes you have to have kids on planes, that many parents are doing their best to keep it under control and do care/worry about disturbing others, and that a little empathy goes a long way. There are parents that let their kids run up and down the aisles, but I think you'll find most of us are just trying to survive it same as you.

As a dad, they shouldn't.

As a mom, sometimes they have to.

 

[MikeDip]

The great baby debate continues. I still say it's the airline's fault hands-down, not the mom or recliner, but the anti-baby crowd is kind of disheartening. You guys know that sometimes you have to have kids on planes, that many parents are doing their best to keep it under control and do care/worry about disturbing others, and that a little empathy goes a long way. There are parents that let their kids run up and down the aisles, but I think you'll find most of us are just trying to survive it same as you.




As a mom, sometimes they have to.

Don't let those anti kid jerks get you down. They are wrong, travel in peace they will deal with it.

 

[p2535748]

I understand what you're saying, but then the FAA should mandate that every child under 2 years of age must sit in their own separate seat, but they seem to leave that discretion to the parents. The fact remains that right now most parents carry babies on their laps in the plane and I've never experienced(or even heard of) any child getting injured as a result. I have experienced(on my flight yesterday actually) someone getting sick as a result of sitting still in a tight space and requiring medical attention.

It's not always just about injury. Some kids sleep/relax better in car seats than they do in laps. My daughter would never nap if we're holding her, but she naps great in her car seat. The one time we flew with her when she was young enough to need a nap, we bought the extra seat and put in the car seat because we figured it was the only way we had a shot at her actually sleeping (she slept through 90% of the flight).

The way we figured it, it was nicer for everyone on board for us to have the car seat along.

Also, let's be clear, just because you have the car seat doesn't mean the kid is sitting there or strapped in the whole flight. They could be on your lap 80% of the time, but it's good to have the option to have some place to put them to nap or someplace to strap them in if needed.

The great baby debate continues. I still say it's the airline's fault hands-down, not the mom or recliner, but the anti-baby crowd is kind of disheartening. You guys know that sometimes you have to have kids on planes, that many parents are doing their best to keep it under control and do care/worry about disturbing others, and that a little empathy goes a long way. There are parents that let their kids run up and down the aisles, but I think you'll find most of us are just trying to survive it same as you.

Do your best, it's all anyone can ask. Honestly, since becoming a parent, I get angrier at lazy/negligent parents way more than I used to, both because I know more about what it takes, and because it makes all of us look bad. I get how tired you can be as a parent, and I get how much sometimes you just don't want to deal with whatever your kid's up to. You owe it to the rest of the world to try your best. What you don't owe is a perfectly behaved child at all times. That's not realistic, and dealing with kids is sometimes just part of being in society.

What gets me is people who say "your kid should never ..." or "if they do it more than once, it's the parent's fault." Those people have no clue what kids are actually like. If your kid is screaming, and you're doing nothing, then yeah, fuck you. But if you're trying your best to comfort them and they're just having a normal three year old meltdown, you have my sympathies.

Also, enjoy this Louis CK bit about kids on planes

 

[Tragicomedy]

I'm not american and also don't know much about planes. Is this airline regarded as lower tier? What is the bottom of the barrel airline when thinking about domestic flights in America?

American is trash and consistently rated very low. Most of our major carriers are pretty bad at everything other than the bare minimum, which is to get you safely to your destination. On time and comfortable is a different story

 

[H.Protagonist]

Don't let those anti kid jerks get you down. They are wrong, travel in peace they will deal with it.

Will do my best to keep the goober happy and quiet, but can't say I'm looking forward to this flight. Hearing so much hate makes it extra stressful.

Do your best, it's all anyone can ask. Honestly, since becoming a parent, I get angrier at lazy/negligent parents way more than I used to, both because I know more about what it takes, and because it makes all of us look bad. I get how tired you can be as a parent, and I get how much sometimes you just don't want to deal with whatever your kid's up to. You owe it to the rest of the world to try your best. What you don't owe is a perfectly behaved child at all times. That's not realistic, and dealing with kids is sometimes just part of being in society.

What gets me is people who say "your kid should never ..." or "if they do it more than once, it's the parent's fault." Those people have no clue what kids are actually like. If your kid is screaming, and you're doing nothing, then yeah, fuck you. But if you're trying your best to comfort them and they're just having a normal three year old meltdown, you have my sympathies.

Also, enjoy this Louis CK bit about kids on planes

Aye. Totally agree on the whole dealing with kids thing. I'm definitely armed and ready for this trip (30+ hours, Australia to England) and I've been sleep training her to associate airplane white noise with naps for about a month now. I'll do everything I can to not disrupt the flight for others, but my best is all I can offer and she still might have a meltdown. I already anticipate the hot glares of people when they see we have a baby. It's business class too, so I half expect extra anger. Ah, well.

And I'm totally with you on the frustration of seeing other parents just ignoring or letting their kids run wild. It makes things so much harder for the rest of us because everyone already hates you before anything even happens. As someone who's flown a million times I know how frustrating it is to be near that screaming child, but man do I feel for the parents now. I used to get auto-annoyed until I saw this one woman pacing the aisle with her baby and every time she passed by my reading light I could see the faint sheen of tear streaks on her cheeks. That one really hit it home for me when I was in my 20s. I was a helluva lot more understanding after that.

Will chk out the Louis CK skit. Could certainly use some laughs on this topic.

 

[Septimius]

To be fair, if something goes wrong in an airplane, that seat isnt going to do shit.

Isn't there a statistics that like 90% of everyone involved in an airplane accident survives?

 

[IJoel]

The problem here is not the seat recliner (who paid extra for more space) or the parent (who paid extra for their kid) but the major lack of dignity and comfort associated with flying and the legendarily bad way airlines handle customer service issues. Airlines should be more tightly regulated because industry self-regulation has failed and consumer groups are not a viable lobbying alternative to industry interests. Moreover the cost of entry is high enough and industry behaviour cartelized enough that new competitive entrants are unlikely.

Fully agree with this.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind not reclining for a few hours should the need arise, but more than that I would find damn near unbearable. I try to take advantage of upgrades as much as possible so people around me have enough space, so I can recline guilt free.

 

[Hawkian]

Will do my best to keep the goober happy and quiet, but can't say I'm looking forward to this flight. Hearing so much hate makes it extra stressful.

And I'm totally with you on the frustration of seeing other parents just ignoring or letting their kids run wild. It makes things so much harder for the rest of us because everyone already hates you before anything even happens.

Don't lose sleep none over it hiro.

While people may get annoyed by a screaming baby in a reactionary way, in the real world there's a lot more nuance and room for compassion than entertained by the caricatures we become when debating these issues in the abstract. You aren't going to be irresponsible or disrespectful with your kid and that can be recognized easily. Let it be stressful because it's actually stressful tending to a lil one on a long plane ride, but not because of the hypothetical ire of your fellow passengers. Even if it doesn't seem like it in a thread like this, most people actually are able in practice to access some humanity about it even if they can't directly relate.

 

[whatevermort]

How long is the flight? Seems kind of fucked to not let the person recline too, people need sleep.

No. Reclining is the devil. Fuck recliners.

#TEAMFUCKRECLINERS

 

[Syriel]

Why didn't she just switch seats with the baby (long as the person in front of her didn't want to decline. Not everyone declines their seat). That way both sides are happy.

Car seat must be in a window seat. Story doesn't say it is (and they are often not when I've seen them on flights because most people don't care about FAA regs), but I'm assuming it was here, otherwise the lady's story would be toast.

first thing that jumped out at me, never heard of an exit row that could recline

Exit row seats can recline like normal seats, unless you're talking about the first row in a double exit row for the reason listed below.

The only seats that cannot recline on every single plane are those right in front of an exit row. This is to prevent them from obstructing the exit of pax should an evac be necessary.

Seems to be a lot of hyperbole and exaggeration. 2 inch recline creates a "big incline" in the chair and makes her child "extremely unsafe". Could she not switch seats with the chair? What seat on any airplane has 6 feet of legroom?

That being said I'm probably being a dick by playing devils advocate. Would like to hear both sides of the story. All standard seats on all planes are terrible these days. We're going to keep getting stories like this as long as they keep seat space so small.

I'm honestly curious to know which model of seat she's using. I've flown plenty, including with folks who have kids, and have never seen a standard car seat that is big enough to not allow an airline seat to recline.

The mom paid the extra and followed the guidelines and indications through and through. This is 100% an AA fuck up.

No, she didn't follow the guidelines. The mom did book a seat where she shouldn't have had a car seat.

If you're bringing an infant on a plane, with either a bassinet or a car seat, the ideal place is the bulkhead. The secondary place would be any row not right next to an exit row.

Bulkheads are usually a premium option (Economy Plus, etc.), but most airlines will accommodate if you're flying with an infant. And infant seats aren't full fare. They're typically half of the fare paid by the adult.

I'd LOVE to hear American Airlines or other passengers' version of events.

Most airlines are douchebags.

Many passengers are douchebags.


But I've NEVER been on a flight where other passengers would have stood by and watch what has been described play out, and I've personally never encountered an attendant this dumb or mean (and I've encountered PLENTY).


The story, as written, reeks to me.

So much this. Something is missing from the story.

I've never experienced turbulance that throws you up in the air. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Just cause you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I haven't experienced my plane crashing either... does that mean that doesn't happen either?

It's rare, but it happens. Drop a few thousand feet straight down and you'll lift up in your seat. It feels not unlike Disney's Tower of Terror, just a little more forceful.

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah how dare that selfish BITCH care about her INFANTS safety.

Seriously, how absurd is that?

 

[MHWilliams]

Neither the mother nor the recliner are at fault here. Both correctly paid/booked the seats they wanted to accommodate the safety and comfort of their flight, but the airline took the mom's money for the extra safety she wanted and basically denied her that and screwed it up for both parties.

They should have offered the recliner or the mother a different seat that was suited to what they paid (allowed for car seat or reclined), and barring one being available, they should have apologized to the recliner and refunded their seat because the safety of the baby is obviously more important than comfort, as frustrating as that might be for the recliner. That the airline handled it the way that it did and made an absolute hash of things AND refuses to properly compensate the mother is ridiculous.

The problem here is not the seat recliner (who paid extra for more space) or the parent (who paid extra for their kid) but the major lack of dignity and comfort associated with flying and the legendarily bad way airlines handle customer service issues. Airlines should be more tightly regulated because industry self-regulation has failed and consumer groups are not a viable lobbying alternative to industry interests. Moreover the cost of entry is high enough and industry behaviour cartelized enough that new competitive entrants are unlikely.

There's at least two reasonable takes on this matter in this thread and people are still salty at the recliner or the mother.

I'm a tall dude like EvilLore and you'll likely not be able to recline back into me, but I also don't hate recliners with the fire of a thousand suns. Or children for that matter, and I've done 12 hours flights with a young boy kicking the back of my seat.

 

[MulderYuffie]

team recline all the way!

 

[Gallbaro]

team recline all the way!

My 6'8" knees counter!

 

[neojubei]

No. Reclining is the devil. Fuck recliners.

#TEAMFUCKRECLINERS

I hate people who recline as well. Sometimes i want to buy the seat in front of me or sit in the front to avoid reclining. I don't recline because i would feel like an asshole to the person behind me. Coach should have more softer comfortable seats that do not recline.

As for the story its the airline's fault.