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An Inside Look at Marvel’s Spider-Man

bunkitz

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Apr 29, 2016
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Or that some people simply feel strongly against false comparisons and downright ridiculous nitpicking.

E3 thread was derailed with all the QTE moaning, and this one seems to be going down the same road with all the animation blend in talk and unrealistic expectations.

Yeah, sure. For some, it could be that, for others, it could be what I said. I do hope that I didn't come across as somebody expecting this to be the final product already, though, because I'm fully aware that this is all still a work-in-progress and thus will still be improved upon. I know it'll still be improved, but I'm simply criticizing the few shortcomings their animations currently have, out of worry that if nobody speaks up about it, Insomniac might just look past it and not actually improve it any further.

So call it nitpicking if you want, but this is a pretty damn valid criticism to me:

I don't know if this is what you were referring to when saying unrealistic expectations, but if so, I will have to strongly disagree. We can clearly see Insomniac's amazing animations throughout the different footage we've seen, and I've seen other games do better with similar animations of going from a crouch to a stand like that, so I'm certain Insomniac can do it much better.
 

killatopak

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Aug 29, 2013
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Yea that's not what I meant. I'm saying the animation blending doesn't seem to be where it should be at this stage and that I hope that's something they work on. Like how weightless it feels when he switches from swinging to wall running or how he stops the car on a dime seemingly ignoring the idea of momentum.

AKA The Witcher 3 situation. Devs made Geralt react realistically to the world. People just went fuck that and went alternative motion.
 

ScaryShark

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Mar 6, 2015
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The stuff they said about Peter sounds very promising and is the most exciting thing they've said for my ears so far. I hope they work him in to the gameplay in a significant way.
 

gamerMan

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Jun 10, 2014
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So much of that was QTE cinematics,
they just cut the QTE button prompts...

Oh my gosh this new footage is amazing. I love how Insomniac is listening closely to fans and want to do Spider-Man proud. Most of all, I love that there are no QTEs at all in this video. Hopefully, these sections will be reworked and not a part of the final game's code. This game looks ridiculously good.
 

Paganmoon

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Jan 14, 2013
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falconbox on reddit combined the two shots into one.


How is he gaining speed when he's already passed the top of the building, and then shoots his web. It looks like his web is pushing him away from the building.

Looks cool as shit this game, but that little tiny thing is annoying me.
 

flaxknuckles

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Nov 7, 2012
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"I hate the suit"



Said no one ever.

Looks like a butcherization of the classic suit. Just fugly

How is he gaining speed when he's already passed the top of the building, and then shoots his web. It looks like his web is pushing him away from the building.

Looks cool as shit this game, but that little tiny thing is annoying me.

Looks like he hit the web-zip button right when the cursor was aimed at the top of the building. It looks weird probably only when you hit it when running up a building.
 

Gurish

Member
Aug 4, 2013
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You're not being specific at all. I'm seeing better animation blending and variety in Batman than in these short snippets of gameplay from this game. I still say goddamn at some of the stuff they did.


The only award that ACU won was for character animation. And for very good reason. The amount of character animation in that game is genuinely absurd to the point that three years later it still holds up.
.

Great now show some of ACU's combat animations, it feels and looks like shit:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gnYSfYqqGl8

So giving this game as an example is ridiculous.

I agree that some of the transitions could be better in Spidey but for me it feels like nitpicking considering how perfect the animations themselves are, it feels and looks so damn smooth, they managed to portray Spidey's movement and combat perfectly here.
 
How is he gaining speed when he's already passed the top of the building, and then shoots his web. It looks like his web is pushing him away from the building.

Looks cool as shit this game, but that little tiny thing is annoying me.
He shoots a web behind him and it arrests his upward momentum and starts swinging him downward hence the acceleration
 

Kaversmed

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Oct 31, 2013
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How is he gaining speed when he's already passed the top of the building, and then shoots his web. It looks like his web is pushing him away from the building.

Looks cool as shit this game, but that little tiny thing is annoying me.

I feel like it's the same thing he does when swinging around corners of this building but without the gravity momentum of the above example.

Also, It's relevant to remember that spiderweb is extremely flexible and could work kinda like a rubber band which would explain the boost in speed in your gif. I think it looks plausible based on the physics shown and how I would expect human made spiderweb to react xD

 
Aug 29, 2013
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Great now show some of ACU's combat animations, it feels and looks like shit:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gnYSfYqqGl8

So giving this game as an example is ridiculous.

I agree that some of the transitions could be better in Spidey but for me it feels like nitpicking considering how perfect the animations themselves are, it feels and looks so damn smooth, they managed to portray Spidey's movement and combat perfectly here.

Oh God, I forgot how bad combat was in that game, from animations to mechanics, yeesh.
 

Paganmoon

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Jan 14, 2013
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He shoots a web behind him and it arrests his upward momentum and starts swinging him downward hence the acceleration
'

But it's behind him, as you point out, it shouldn't give him acceleration forward.

I feel like it's the same thing he does when swinging around corners of this building but without the gravity momentum of the above example.

Also, It's relevant to remember that spiderweb is extremely flexible and could work kinda like a rubber band which would explain the boost in speed in your gif. I think it looks plausible based on the physics shown and how I would expect human made spiderweb to react xD


This works better, as it isn't exactly like the roof segment, the roof segment looks like he webs behind him, as in he already has forward momentum and past the point where he can get more forward momentum based on where his web hits.

... ok I'm getting very nitpicky here I feel. Nevermind :)
 
Apr 2, 2007
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Great now show some of ACU's combat animations, it feels and looks like shit:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gnYSfYqqGl8

So giving this game as an example is ridiculous.

I agree that some of the transitions could be better in Spidey but for me it feels like nitpicking considering how perfect the animations themselves are, it feels and looks so damn smooth, they managed to portray Spidey's movement and combat perfectly here.
Yea not sure why his animators eye isn't seeing those bad animations.

Also look at this combat video from Arkham Knight
https://youtu.be/MEklJnD1gXA
You can see a lot of snap transitions and a very slip slide Batman.

This is not a bad thing! The first example he used is to keep the flow of combat going (similar to Batman). The second is to keep the feel of momentum going when running across the city. They have reasons for existing.
 

FlutterPuffs

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Apr 6, 2011
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I'm so mad about how almost everything about the second film is bad because the first one had genuinely good ideas. Speaking of Homecoming Spiderman, I was actually watching a compilation of all his scenes in Civil War, (better be an option for that costume btw), another good way to showcase him reacting to a landing


over


^ the above is already halfway there truth be told


Because you're literally not the first person ITT to come in with that sort of shitposting and the implication is quite clear.
Disagree.

Secondary motion looks great, but not when it interferes with gameplay. Figure the reason why Spider-Man has a short animation after landing is so control is given to the player as quickly as possible.

It's ok for me if it looks a little shit, as long as the control isn't sacrificed.
 

Equanimity

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Jun 20, 2015
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It not even nitpicking. Nor is anything I talked about even remotely unrealistic considering the state of animation among top budget games. Why're people in this thread being so disingenuous about critique? "Unrealistic." Slight animation changes that are incredibly commonplace in triple A games is what's considered "unrealistic" now?

I find your issue with animation blend-in quite odd, especially when you compare them to movies and ACU. You can go to YouTube and find wonky/cancelled and downright poor animations in Unity within a minute. I think it's rather disingenuous for one to compare the animation blend-in between Arno and Spider-Man, for an obvious reason no less.

Do you do this with every tiple A game you have a slight interest in?


Bryan Intihar confirmed that they have increased the swing speed since the E3 demo.

And was that a direct reaction to what people requested on social media and forums?

Yeah, sure. For some, it could be that, for others, it could be what I said. I do hope that I didn't come across as somebody expecting this to be the final product already, though, because I'm fully aware that this is all still a work-in-progress and thus will still be improved upon. I know it'll still be improved, but I'm simply criticizing the few shortcomings their animations currently have, out of worry that if nobody speaks up about it, Insomniac might just look past it and not actually improve it any further.

If you believe all of that then I would suggest you email or tweet IG with your critique. There's a high chance Spidey devs might not even read your comments if GAF is the only place you'll post them.

So call it nitpicking if you want, but this is a pretty damn valid criticism to me:

I disagree. I posted a few gifs with smooth animation blend-in, which could only mean one thing - Spider-Man PS4 is a work in progress. Do you get where I'm coming from?

I don't know if this is what you were referring to when saying unrealistic expectations, but if so, I will have to strongly disagree. We can clearly see Insomniac's amazing animations throughout the different footage we've seen, and I've seen other games do better with similar animations of going from a crouch to a stand like that, so I'm certain Insomniac can do it much better.

We're taking about Spider-Man here. Don't compare his animations to how a normal person would move and react.

Oh my gosh this new footage is amazing. I love how Insomniac is listening closely to fans and want to do Spider-Man proud. Most of all, I love that there are no QTEs at all in this video. Hopefully, these sections will be reworked and not a part of the final game's code. This game looks ridiculously good.

There will be QTEs in the final game. I'm all for it.




dat homecoming diversity coming through.

Possibly the first hijabi NPC?

Maybe in a Spider-Man game. But I've seen hijabis elsewhere.
 

Floody

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Dec 4, 2014
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How is he gaining speed when he's already passed the top of the building, and then shoots his web. It looks like his web is pushing him away from the building.

Looks cool as shit this game, but that little tiny thing is annoying me.

Looks like he uses a web on the side of the building to sling him across, instead of just going straight up, after building up some speed running up it.
 

Gurish

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Aug 4, 2013
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Yea not sure why his animators eye isn't seeing those bad animations.

Also look at this combat video from Arkham Knight
https://youtu.be/MEklJnD1gXA
You can see a lot of snap transitions and a very slip slide Batman.

This is not a bad thing! The first example he used is to keep the flow of combat going (similar to Batman). The second is to keep the feel of momentum going when running across the city. They have reasons for existing.

I agree with you completely, I feel like the things he is complaining about are pretty common in games of such nature, it's needed to keep the flow of the combat and traversal, and it happens in AK as well when they want to keep the flow of the combat so they "break" the animation when needed.

I don't want to call him by names like some of the rest around here do but it does feel like he is trying to nitpick what seems like a game with a mostly flawless presentation and animations, instead of acknowledging how amazing everything looks and "feels" he rather find very insignificant and understandable "flaws". And to fucking bring as an example ACU, a game that is full with horrible animations, that feels like shit to play in general, a game that basically represents the complete opposite of what is considered smooth and polished, is really ridiculous.
 

bunkitz

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Apr 29, 2016
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If you believe all of that then I would suggest you email or tweet IG with your critique. There's a high chance Spidey devs might not even read your comments if GAF is the only place you'll post them.
Yeah, I'm aware of that. I do tweet at devs when it's something that concerns me enough.

I disagree. I posted a few gifs with smooth animation blend-in, which could only mean one thing - Spider-Man PS4 is a work in progress. Do you get where I'm coming from?
Err, yes? I never disagreed on the fact that the game is still a work in progress. Majority of the animation we've seen of the game all look really smooth and fantastic. I just found the transition in this one in particular to be not so smooth. Or maybe the right description would be that it's too fast? Anyway, it's not to the point that it would really bother me, but it's there and I know about it, so I'd like to see it be done better.

The transition to the last hit in this one is a little too fast for me too--it's almost as if he doesn't jump at all and was just suddenly in the air--although I suppose that's more of nitpicking because I understand the need to make it fast due to combat. But then... it's already slow-mo'd, so it wouldn't really hurt to show Spidey jumping a bit. Ehh.
We're taking about Spider-Man here. Don't compare his animations to how a normal person would move and react.
Okay, that's fair, I did forget to consider that when comparing. The transition from crouch to stand here just looks unnaturally fast and stiff to me. While yes, Spider-Man has superhuman (easier to say than "proportionate...") agility, I always imagined it to still look natural despite that. If that makes any sense... To me, it looks as if it needed a keyframe between the crouching and standing positions, but it wasn't there, so Spidey unnaturally zips back to a standing position.

So, yeah, maybe "not smooth" weren't the right words for me to use...? Or maybe it's right.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Feb 14, 2014
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AKA The Witcher 3 situation. Devs made Geralt react realistically to the world. People just went fuck that and went alternative motion.
Geralt doesn't react realistically to the world of the witcher 3 at all nor does that game have a lot of animation priority, ESPECIALLY compared to the one that came before it.... The only games i've played where animation priority was an explicit constant issue were Rockstar games.

Disagree.

Secondary motion looks great, but not when it interferes with gameplay. Figure the reason why Spider-Man has a short animation after landing is so control is given to the player as quickly as possible.

It's ok for me if it looks a little shit, as long as the control isn't sacrificed.
Again this sort of secondary motion is so commonplace that games have already found a way to include details like this without sacrificing playability. Hence why the lack of it by comparison looks stiff and unnatural.
 

Equanimity

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Yeah, I'm aware of that. I do tweet at devs when it's something that concerns me enough.

Yeah that's good.

Err, yes? I never disagreed on the fact that the game is still a work in progress. Majority of the animation we've seen of the game all look really smooth and fantastic. I just found the transition in this one in particular to be not so smooth. Or maybe the right description would be that it's too fast? Anyway, it's not to the point that it would really bother me, but it's there and I know about it, so I'd like to see it be done better.

The transition to the last hit in this one is a little too fast for me too--it's almost as if he doesn't jump at all and was just suddenly in the air--although I suppose that's more of nitpicking because I understand the need to make it fast due to combat. But then... it's already slow-mo'd, so it wouldn't really hurt to show Spidey jumping a bit. Ehh.

I think I see your issue with that particular move, I believe the actual culprit lies within the fast camera pan; maybe IG should slow it down ever so slightly to show Spidey jumping in style.

Okay, that's fair, I did forget to consider that when comparing. The transition from crouch to stand here just looks unnaturally fast and stiff to me. While yes, Spider-Man has superhuman (easier to say than "proportionate...") agility, I always imagined it to still look natural despite that. If that makes any sense... To me, it looks as if it needed a keyframe between the crouching and standing positions, but it wasn't there, so Spidey unnaturally zips back to a standing position.

So, yeah, maybe "not smooth" weren't the right words for me to use...? Or maybe it's right.

Maybe it's like that for the sake of gameplay but I guess If it's an issue for some, IG should take another look at it.
 

Spring-Loaded

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Apr 16, 2012
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I find your issue with animation blend-in quite odd, especially when you compare them to movies and ACU. You can go to YouTube and find wonky/cancelled and downright poor animations in Unity within a minute. I think it's rather disingenuous for one to compare the animation blend-in between Arno and Spider-Man, for an obvious reason no less.

Do you do this with every tiple A game you have a slight interest in?

1) Spider-Man having superpowers is not carte blanche for him to have weird animations having superpowers is not carte blanche for him to have just any kind of weird animation. Most of what has been shown in this new game looks incredible, but that makes the transitions stand out even more. Since Spiderman is one my favorite superheroes, I definitely want the power fantasy of controlling him to be as consistently good as possible. That includes cool three point landings that transition well into him standing up, or having that slight tug present when changing directions while swinging and launching a new web, or swinging into the side of the building before running up the side of it.

It was a similar situation with the Batman Arkham games and when those games or at their best in regard to animation, they were even more awesome for me (particularly in Arkham City where I found the transitions between individual animations to be even better and more consistent than in Arkham Knight during fights with less teleportation). When they had to resort to Batman simply teleporting from enemy to enemy, that lessened the experience somewhat for me. I actually find Arkham City had less jarring transitions in fight animation on average than what's been shown of Spider-Man so far. There's always the need to "cheat" in order to make the game fully playable, but if Insomniac can make those transitions any better without sacrificing playability, then that would be great.

Little stuff like forward momentum and general sense of space or things that kept me from falling enjoying superhero power fantasies like inFamous 2 or Prototype, even though they got some things right.

2) Whether Crossing Eden does this for every AAA game doesn't really matter if he's actually discussing the fucking game this thread is about, rather than trying to dictate what everyone else should be able to talk about in regard to the game footage that they have shown.

There's a lot of insinuation that that poster is writing about the game disingenuously. But we're having that stupid conversation, I want to add that there's a general sense of defensiveness there's a lot of insinuation that that poster is writing about the game disingenuously. But we're having that stupid conversation, I want to add that there's a general vibe of unwarranted defensiveness and attempts to shut down any prevalent criticism in posts responding to said criticism of a console exclusive. Do you do this song and dance for every PS4 exclusive?

The only current gen console I have is a PS4 and I can see what crossing Eden is talking about. So maybe, just maybe, it's not just some fanboy bullshit. And maybe we can have a discussion about the limited details about the game that we have, rather than some crusade to determine whether someone's arguing disingenuously when everything they're pointing out is at least based on something more than a feeling.
 

Sn4ke_911

If I ever post something in Japanese which I don't understand, please BAN me.
May 9, 2009
45,855
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IF YOU'RE READING THIS INSOMNIAC, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS MARY JANE, SHOW IS MARY JANE.

List of Top Priority goes: Faster Swing Speed>>show us Mary Jane Watson

looks like MJ will be Peter's love interest.

 

bunkitz

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Apr 29, 2016
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I think I see your issue with that particular move, I believe the actual culprit lies within the fast camera pan; maybe IG should slow it down ever so slightly to show Spidey jumping in style.
Yup, seems like it. I took a closer look and Spidey does jump, but the speed of the camera almost made me not see it.

falconbox on reddit combined the two shots into one.

If what the player does here is to web-zip at the edge of the building, I wonder if it's possible to simply web-zip upwards for more verticality, rather than using it as an anchor for forward horizontal movement. I hope the "skill-based" nature of the web-swinging will allow for both at any time, but either ways, it's incredbily exciting to think that we'll be able to pull off such cool-looking moves as Spidey, be it web-swinging or parkour.

looks like MJ will be Peter's love interest.

Jesus. You spotted that? Damn, man. Nice find! If MJ really does end up being Peter's love interest here, I'd be very happy. They're soul-mates, and while we do have the Renew Your Vows book right now, it's been far too long since we last saw Peter and MJ together in a more current timeline. And I sure as hell hope she already knows Peter's secret.
 

Equanimity

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Jun 20, 2015
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1) Spider-Man having superpowers is not carte blanche for him to have weird animations having superpowers is not carte blanche for him to have just any kind of weird animation. Most of what has been shown in this new game looks incredible, but that makes the transitions stand out even more. Since Spiderman is one my favorite superheroes, I definitely want the power fantasy of controlling him to be as consistently good as possible.

I thought you lot were discussing animation blending, where did the wierd animations part come from? And err, yes it does to what I've bolded, for any super hero character. I find it rather disingenuous that some of you just brush past all the gifs that show smooth animation blend-in and hold tight to the ones that you believe might showcase a problem.

1)
That includes cool three point landings that transition well into him standing up, or having that slight tug present when changing directions while swinging and launching a new web, or swinging into the side of the building before running up the side of it.

W.I.P

It was a similar situation with the Batman Arkham games and when those games or at their best in regard to animation, they were even more awesome for me (particularly in Arkham City where I found the transitions between individual animations to be even better and more consistent than in Arkham Knight during fights with less teleportation). When they had to resort to Batman simply teleporting from enemy to enemy, that lessened the experience somewhat for me. I actually find Arkham City had less jarring transitions in fight animation on average than what's been shown of Spider-Man so far. There's always the need to "cheat" in order to make the game fully playable, but if Insomniac can make those transitions any better without sacrificing playability, then that would be great.

You can feel a lot of things but that does not make it true. There's barely any teleportation in the Spider-Man combat presentation. I was playing Arkham City for the 4th time a few days ago, and your comparison doesn't make any sense. You're comparing apples to oranges.

2) Whether Crossing Eden does this for every AAA game doesn't really matter if he's actually discussing the fucking game this thread is about, rather than trying to dictate what everyone else should be able to talk about in regard to the game footage that they have shown.

This isn't a technical analysis thread but yeah go ahead and pick apart these animations right after you've come off from doing the same thing in the Days Gone thread. Talking about Eden here.

There's a lot of insinuation that that poster is writing about the game disingenuously.

I'm not insinuating, I think Eden is clearly being disingenuous in his comparison. I might be wrong but that's what I believe at the moment.


But we're having that stupid conversation, I want to add that there's a general vibe of unwarranted defensiveness and attempts to shut down any prevalent criticism in posts responding to said criticism of a console exclusive. Do you do this song and dance for every PS4 exclusive?

Don't waste my time with your stupid conversation then :)

The only current gen console I have is a PS4 and I can see what crossing Eden is talking about. So maybe, just maybe, it's not just some fanboy bullshit. And maybe we can have a discussion about the limited details about the game that we have, rather than some crusade to determine whether someone's arguing disingenuously when everything they're pointing out is at least based on something more than a feeling.

Who's stopping you two from conducting a discussion? You're in space where other people can and will interject with their opinions.

Yup, seems like it. I took a closer look and Spidey does jump, but the speed of the camera almost made me not see it.

Yeah, IG should slow down that camera pan.
 

Kinyou

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Sep 12, 2009
48,126
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looks like MJ will be Peter's love interest.

God I really hope this will be the Arkham for spiderman with every note worthy character making an appearance.

A mission where you have to juggle between going on a date with MJ and stopping some crimes would be great.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Nov 23, 2015
31,114
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I think the fact we are nit picking a games animation transitions that's a year, or more, before it actually releases is a pretty damn good sign if you ask me.
 

Frostman

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Jan 12, 2016
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I don't know whether I just don't critique games the way some on this forum do, or if this thread is just incredible nitpicking.

The game is probably 12 months from release. I don't see the need to pick on 1 tiny part of animation when so much of it is incredible, 12 months out.
 

onemanasylum

Banned
Aug 12, 2016
2,955
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Geralt doesn't react realistically to the world of the witcher 3 at all nor does that game have a lot of animation priority, ESPECIALLY compared to the one that came before it.... The only games i've played where animation priority was an explicit constant issue were Rockstar games.


Again this sort of secondary motion is so commonplace that games have already found a way to include details like this without sacrificing playability. Hence why the lack of it by comparison looks stiff and unnatural.

I agree with you there, Geralt was anything but realistic.
 

MCD250

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Nov 28, 2016
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I came out of the movie yesterday hyped for all things Spider-Man. Watched this video after and man, it sure sounds like Insomniac are saying all the right things. I'm pretty excited for this game (though I always have been tbh).
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Feb 14, 2014
25,271
2
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1) Spider-Man having superpowers is not carte blanche for him to have weird animations having superpowers is not carte blanche for him to have just any kind of weird animation. Most of what has been shown in this new game looks incredible, but that makes the transitions stand out even more. Since Spiderman is one my favorite superheroes, I definitely want the power fantasy of controlling him to be as consistently good as possible. That includes cool three point landings that transition well into him standing up, or having that slight tug present when changing directions while swinging and launching a new web, or swinging into the side of the building before running up the side of it.

It was a similar situation with the Batman Arkham games and when those games or at their best in regard to animation, they were even more awesome for me (particularly in Arkham City where I found the transitions between individual animations to be even better and more consistent than in Arkham Knight during fights with less teleportation). When they had to resort to Batman simply teleporting from enemy to enemy, that lessened the experience somewhat for me. I actually find Arkham City had less jarring transitions in fight animation on average than what's been shown of Spider-Man so far. There's always the need to "cheat" in order to make the game fully playable, but if Insomniac can make those transitions any better without sacrificing playability, then that would be great.

Little stuff like forward momentum and general sense of space or things that kept me from falling enjoying superhero power fantasies like inFamous 2 or Prototype, even though they got some things right.

2) Whether Crossing Eden does this for every AAA game doesn't really matter if he's actually discussing the fucking game this thread is about, rather than trying to dictate what everyone else should be able to talk about in regard to the game footage that they have shown.

There's a lot of insinuation that that poster is writing about the game disingenuously. But we're having that stupid conversation, I want to add that there's a general sense of defensiveness there's a lot of insinuation that that poster is writing about the game disingenuously. But we're having that stupid conversation, I want to add that there's a general vibe of unwarranted defensiveness and attempts to shut down any prevalent criticism in posts responding to said criticism of a console exclusive. Do you do this song and dance for every PS4 exclusive?

The only current gen console I have is a PS4 and I can see what crossing Eden is talking about. So maybe, just maybe, it's not just some fanboy bullshit. And maybe we can have a discussion about the limited details about the game that we have, rather than some crusade to determine whether someone's arguing disingenuously when everything they're pointing out is at least based on something more than a feeling.
I really gotta thank you for this post.

This isn't a technical analysis thread but yeah go ahead and pick apart these animations right after you've come off from doing the same thing in the Days Gone thread. Talking about Eden here.
This also isn't a hype thread. So if I notice issues in both games am I just supposed to keep my opinions to myself or? It would be one thing if I was being incredibly vague, but I have very clearly pointed out where I find issue and provided a ton of visuals examples as well as counter examples as to how it could be one better. So ti imply that i'm disingenuous because I also critiqued the animation of another game that happened to be a ps4 exclusive is ridiculous, as it implies that I wouldn't do so otherwise. When it's like the first thing I notice whenever I watch a video of a game in action.

I'm not insinuating, I think Eden is clearly being disingenuous in his comparison. I might be wrong but that's what I believe at the moment.
You ARE wrong.

I agree with you there, Geralt was anything but realistic.
That was more because CDPR heard the complaints about animation priority in Witcher 2. Geralt is incredibly responsive during combat. And has a good mix between feeling weighty and moving around the world in a timely fashion.
 

Equanimity

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This also isn't a hype thread. So if I notice issues in both games am I just supposed to keep my opinions to myself or? It would be one thing if I was being incredibly vague, but I have very clearly pointed out where I find issue and provided a ton of visuals examples as well as counter examples as to how it could be one better. So ti imply that i'm disingenuous because I also critiqued the animation of another game that happened to be a ps4 exclusive is ridiculous, as it implies that I wouldn't do so otherwise.

Of course not, this is why I asked you earlier if you did the same for most games that you have a slight interest in, but you clearly brushed my question aside.

I posted counter examples of good animation blend-in, you ignored those too.

You're assuming quite a bit here, I didn't call you disingenuous for your critique on Days Gone and Spider-Man. Take another look at what I've said so far.

You ARE wrong.

Well gee, that changes everything.
 

privitsan02

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Of course not, this is why I asked you earlier if you did the same for most games that you have a slight interest in, but you clearly brushed my question aside.

I posted counter examples of good animation blend-in, you ignored those too.

You're assuming quite a bit here, I didn't call you disingenuous for your critique on Days Gone and Spider-Man. Take another at what I've saying in thread so far.



Well gee, that changes everything.

To be fair, all Crossing Eden had to do is not compare the animations here to Unity, which derailed the topic as there's almost always an Ubisoft game in his comparisons, often unjustified. That game, while also having promising animations and brilliant graphics were bogged down with horrible glitches, bugs and a lack of polish. A lot of those great animations there were easily cancelled or ruined due to games lack of consistency. You're constantly fighting the controls and it's very apparent in small, closed off areas.

I don't think his critiques with regards to Days Gone were unfair. The guns do lack a kick and it's clearly unfinished, more so than Spider-Man here and I feel were more valid in that thread. The situations are mutually exclusive. It's okay to critique certain things but it doesn't help when it creates a pattern for some people.

Best wishes.
 
'

But it's behind him, as you point out, it shouldn't give him acceleration forward.

This works better, as it isn't exactly like the roof segment, the roof segment looks like he webs behind him, as in he already has forward momentum and past the point where he can get more forward momentum based on where his web hits.

... ok I'm getting very nitpicky here I feel. Nevermind :)
It's this


His movement looks like it's straight out of the fucking movies. Insomniac is doing an incredible job.
 

Spring-Loaded

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I thought you lot were discussing animation blending, where did the wierd animations part come from? And err, yes it does to what I've bolded, for any super hero character. I find it rather disingenuous that some of you just brush past all the gifs that show smooth animation blend-in and hold tight to the ones that you believe might showcase a problem.



W.I.P



You can feel a lot of things but that does not make it true. There's barely any teleportation in the Spider-Man combat presentation. I was playing Arkham City for the 4th time a few days ago, and your comparison doesn't make any sense. You're comparing apples to oranges.



This isn't a technical analysis thread but yeah go ahead and pick apart these animations right after you've come off from doing the same thing in the Days Gone thread. Talking about Eden here.



I'm not insinuating, I think Eden is clearly being disingenuous in his comparison. I might be wrong but that's what I believe at the moment.




Don't waste my time with your stupid conversation then :)



Who's stopping you two from conducting a discussion? You're in space where other people can and will interject with their opinions.



Yeah, IG should slow down that camera pan.

1) Spider-Man standing up after landing looks weird, it's a transition between the landing animation and his default standing pose, and all that falls under "weird animation." He's still human, which means no matter how spectacular his moves are, they're still subject to looking uncanny or odd.

In that portion of my post you quoted, I say that most of what has been shown looks incredibly good. Not saying how amazing it looks in every sentence doesn't equal "brushing past examples of good animation/animation blending." I'm referring to the gifs that show a really quick transitions between individual attacks and takedowns, and him swinging into a building before instantly running up the side.

You needing people to constantly reinforce that the game looks good smacks of fanboyism and insecurity.

2) a work in progress? No one's saying the footage is final. no one's refuting when the game is set to release. May as well shout down any and all discussion if that's a problem.

"Uh, what's the point is saying the webslinging looks great if it's coming out a year from now?"

3) people have been talking up the combat and stealth/predator gameplay as looking Arkham inspired—comparison between the two is warranted. Arkham City counter animations, particularly those of Catwoman, blended together exceptionally well even during rapid series of counters. The "teleportation" issue is circumvented somewhat with Spider-Man canonically being able to flip across large distances quickly and having web zip line abilities, and is more jarring in the Arkham series than it is here, but in these fight gifs, I'm noticing an attack animation complete itself, then what looks like a jump cut to another attack animation against a single enemy. It could be that it feels better to lay than it looks, but it's still happening. The equivalent in the Arkham series (animation blending between distinct, basic attacks) has generally looked smoother. Not necessarily better overall, but aspects of what those games achieved are what I hope Insomniac can do with Spider-Man.

4) it's a thread about the new Spider-Man game. Discussing the animation is as valid as people nitpicking over the webslinging, or the voice acting or any other aspect of the game. That all is more valid than some "surely someone criticizing the game must have an agenda" idiocy. Can you not tell the difference between discussing a game and discussing another poster?

5) You suck at being able to tell is someone's arguing in good faith then. Even if Crossing Eden is pulling of some elaborate troll, everything (aside from responding to personal accusations) has been about the game, or comparisons to other games. Whether those are valid or appropriate are a relevant matter of opinion—whether a given poster who's posting stuff about he game itself is doing so with ulterior motives is an irrelevant matter of opinion.

6) The aforementioned "Sony hater witch hunt" is what's stupid, and you're willingly perpetuating it. Your opinion about that is both moronic and irrelevant to this game. Why shitpost and derail a thread about a game if you purport to care about it?

7) Some opinions are asinine and off-topic. I really try to avoid engaging moronic diatribes in threads, but your stupidity needs calling out.

Consider instead that no one is stopping you from ignoring on-topic posts or discussion if they don't interest you. No one is forcing you to show your ass about how paranoid you are when it comes to vg discussion.
 

Crossing Eden

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Of course not, this is why I asked you earlier if you did the same for most games that you have a slight interest in, but you clearly brushed my question aside.
Again like I said, these two games released within the same time frame. And since the retort from you in the last thread was that we shouldn't compare linear games as examples of good animation, I figured it'd be best to name the best of the open world genre.

I posted counter examples of good animation blend-in, you ignored those too.
I actually didn't see your post.
You're assuming quite a bit here, I didn't call you disingenuous for your critique on Days Gone and Spider-Man. Take another look at what I've said so far.
I wasn't being disingenuous with my comparisons., this is incredibly well done given the year it released. Batman also holds up well too. Both are like my go to examples of near perfect animation blending despite the fact that they still have the animation skips that occur based on an immediate reaction to player input.
 

Equanimity

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To be fair, all Crossing Eden had to do is not compare the animations here to Unity, which derailed the topic as there's almost always an Ubisoft game in his comparisons, often unjustified.

So from what I understand, Crossing Eden has an unjustified habit of comparing animation work between Ubisoft and other devs?

That game, while also having promising animations and brilliant graphics were bogged down with horrible glitches, bugs and a lack of polish. A lot of those great animations there were easily cancelled or ruined due to games lack of consistency. You're constantly fighting the controls and it's very apparent in small, closed off areas.

I competed agree.

I don't think his critiques with regards to Days Gone were unfair. The guns do lack a kick and it's clearly unfinished, more so than Spider-Man here and I feel were more valid in that thread. The situations are mutually exclusive. It's okay to critique certain things but it doesn't help when it creates a pattern for some people.

Best wishes.

And that is exactly why I agreed with some of the constructive criticism in the Days Gone Alternative Playthrough thread.
 

Spring-Loaded

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It's this

It does seem like the timing is slightly off like the web comes out too late, even if the concept holds water. Again, it seems like functionality is the priority.

So from what I understand, Crossing Eden has an unjustified habit of comparing animation work between Ubisoft and other devs?



I competed agree.


And that is exactly why I agreed with some of the constructive criticism in the Days Gone Alternative Playthrough thread.

Make a thread about him while you're at it.
 

Equanimity

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Again like I said, these two games released within the same time frame. And since the retort from you in the last thread was that we shouldn't compare linear games as examples of good animation, I figured it'd be best to name the best of the open world genre.

You're free to compare the two but I don't usually expect the same quality of animation work between an open world game and linear title.

I actually didn't see your post.

Alright that's fine.

I wasn't being disingenuous with my comparisons., this is incredibly well done given the year it released. Batman also holds up well too. Both are like my go to examples of near perfect animation blending despite the fact that they still have the animation skips that occur based on an immediate reaction to player input.

But ACU doesn't hold up well in comparison to Spider-Man, that's where I take issue with what you're suggesting.
 

Crossing Eden

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It's this
To be more specific

But due to the unnatural speed of the movement it looks a bit off. Seems they're very specifically emphasizing input.

You're free to compare the two but I don't usually expect the same quality of animation work between an open world game and linear title.
It's 2017. There are open world games doing amazing things these things. The gap is WAYYY smaller than last gen

But ACU doesn't hold up well in comparison to Spider-Man, that's where I take issue with what you're suggesting.
The animation blending certainly does. Then there's the little nuances like the swaying of the arms while jumping and such that's missing completely in the e3 demo and such. It's genuinely excellent.
 

dan2026

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People who hate the suit, just know that they will be more than happy to sell you a ton of alternatives.
 

Paganmoon

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It's this

I get the concept, just looks like the execution is a bit off.

It does seem like the timing is slightly off like the web comes out too late, even if the concept holds water. Again, it seems like functionality is the priority.

Yes, exactly, timing is a bit off/late, so it looks like he's shooting behind himself.

And yes, functionality is key, so as I mentioned earlier, it's a very nitpicky "issue". I'll try to drop it/ignore it :)