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Analogue NT mini announced - 1080P FGPA NES, $449, Jan 2017, aluminum unibody, 8Bitdo

Chittagong

Chittagong

Gold Member
After running out of original Famicom CPUs and PPUs, Analogue has now created a new device that offers an experience as close as possible to the original NES/Famicom.

Like the original Analogue NT, this new one is using tech by Kevtris, so the device should offer an excellent experience. Selling at equally eye watering price as the original, this is a high end product similar to the excellent original Analogue NT.

What's new?
- FPGA based hardware emulation
- 20% smaller size (a bit shame as the OG NT is cleverly same size as Famicom Disk System)
- Includes free 8Bitdo wireless controller
- Supports HDMI and Component/S-Video in one system
- Works with all region games
- SD card firmware update

What's same
- Analogue unibody design
- Works with Famicom and US NES games
- 4 controller ports
- Works with all accessories, including Zapper (CRT TVs) and FDS
- Scanline and scaler features
- 480P / 720P / 1080P

Price and availability
$449 / January 2017


Official photos

nt-ultra.jpg


sec3-ntimg.jpg


sec-4img.jpg


net-hsecimg.jpg


First thoughts?

- Looks like a clever way to continue the line after CPUs and PPUs ran out
- $449 is very premium, this is a luxury product still
- Should be excellent as it's Kevtris
- January 2017? We'll see, Analogue seems to have learned a lot from the NT
- Analogue customer service has been very good since the early NT struggles
- I'm happy with my OG NT, but this is the second best product in the market
 
T

Timu

Member
...I'll just stick with the AVS, if that's any good. At least this does more connection options, but dat price though!!!
 
C

CrashPrime

Member
SNES NT would excite me a bit more. NES has so much less that intrests me with the Nintendo product coming out this November.

8bitdo controller is a nice touch tho!
 
Kawika

Kawika

Member
I was willing to shell out the money for the real hardware but the FPGA is still unproven tech to me. I think it would be smart to get demo units out to the big RGB youtubers and websites asap. Until Retro RGB or My Life in Gaming gave their 2 cents I am going to hold off.
 
A

AgeEighty

Member
I'm definitely interested, but I need to know first if the HDMI port is 2.0 compatible so I know if it could be updated to support 4K output at some point. I emailed Analogue to ask, but they gave me a "no comment ;)".
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
I already ordered, but I wonder if there will be a dust cover for the NES slot that I will never, ever use (I'm 100% Famicom).

It's worth noting in the OP that it uses DB15 output instead of Nintendo Multi-AV and will require special analog cables.
 
D

Decider

Member
Kawika said:
I was willing to shell out the money for the real hardware but the FPGA is still unproven tech to me. I think it would be smart to get demo units out to the big RGB youtubers and websites asap. Until Retro RGB or My Life in Gaming gave their 2 cents I am going to hold off.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. I'm a bit surprised that people are handwaving this concern away with "it's by Kevtris, it'll be fine" when Analogue struggled with compatibility issues when they were using genuine Famicom innards.

I suppose the proof will be in the results but I'd expect 100% compatibility and accuracy for the price, especially if the Mini being marketed as a premium product.
 
L

Loam

Member
I'm not well versed on the finer points of hardware, would someone mind weighing in on the Analogue's benefits over the AVS? From what I can tell its capable of outputting to 1080p (vs 720p), and has more video options and connections, however both are essentially still 'emulating' certain parts of an authentic NES via FPGA? Obviously they're niche products for enthusiasts, but unless I'm missing something the Analogue seems like a huge step up in an already steep price for minimal benefit?
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
Wren said:
I'm not well versed on the finer points of hardware, would someone mind weighing in on the Analogue's benefits over the AVS? From what I can tell its capable of outputting to 1080p (vs 720p), and has more video options and connections, however both are essentially still 'emulating' certain parts of an authentic NES via FPGA? Obviously they're niche products for enthusiasts, but unless I'm missing something the Analogue seems like a huge step up in an already steep price for minimal benefit?
Click to expand...

The FPGA in the Analogue isn't 'emulating' itself as NES hardware. It's 'reconfiguring' itself as NES hardware.

And yeah, any talk of this is knee deep in the niche/enthusiast/hardcore segment. Regular consumers need not apply. ;)

To that segment, that small niche of consumers, that the Analogue has RGB combined with 1080p integer scaled HDMI, with all the connectors (NES cart slot, Famicom cart slot, 4 controllers, microphone, Fami expansion connector), along with no lag, makes it not that all expensive. Seriously.
 
N

NoFaceNico

Member
Well, I guess the people who complained about the 720p problem with the AVS can now be satisfied.

I think this is a great setup but it's too expensive for me and while the NT doesn't look bad, it dosnt look like 500 bucks either. I like subtlety when done right but I expect a $500 console to look better than a bar of soap.
 
K

Khaz

Member
It's not emulation, it's hardware simulation. Recreating the logic gates inside an adaptive chip, instead of using the original chips. You could just as well clone the design of the original chips (which are fully documented) into a modern immutable chip, but the nature of the FPGA makes it possible to update the device should the designer have made mistakes.

Software emulation is trying to reproduce the output with no regards to the actual process, which can be adapted, modified, simplified, or even made completely differently. It results in computing frames by frames, with no regards to the authenticity of the inner process, or their order. Which is why emulation always have at least one frame of delay, but is very efficient in reproducing satisfactory results similar to observed original input / output.

Hardware simulation is to reproduce the design into a simulator, and observe the output. If the output isn't identical to the original, then the simulator has to be tweaked to simulate better (provided the design is in fact identical). Considering the world of electronics , FPGAs are a very solid chip simulator and any differences in the output may be attributed to the design reproduction.

It's a much more costly process than emulation and with a different goal, but when the simulation is good it behaves just like the original object: doing an undocumented, untested input on the simulator should output the same result as the real object would, whereas doing the same on an emulator would produce unreliable output that cannot be treated as an accurate output. It's not to say that an emulator cannot output an accurate result in the same conditions, but by design it cannot be used as proof that the original object would output the same result.




tl;dr: with emulation you tweak the code in a set box until the output is satisfactory. With simulation you put the object parameters in the box and you tweak the box until it can give real-life results.

For the NES it means no lag, identical response to inputs, identical compatibility with exotic peripheral and exotic code (like crazy demoscene stuff), and a much more expensive product than a cheap emulator box.
 
S

slammer

Member
Looks like a great box and the price isn't to steep either considering what I've paid to import an A/V Famicom + the cost of getting it HDMI modded. I'm actually kind of conflicted whether I should sell it and order an Analogue or just keep the original console.
Hoping for an FPGA SNES next.
 
T

thepenguin55

Member
Wren said:
I'm not well versed on the finer points of hardware, would someone mind weighing in on the Analogue's benefits over the AVS? From what I can tell its capable of outputting to 1080p (vs 720p), and has more video options and connections, however both are essentially still 'emulating' certain parts of an authentic NES via FPGA? Obviously they're niche products for enthusiasts, but unless I'm missing something the Analogue seems like a huge step up in an already steep price for minimal benefit?
Click to expand...

Beer Monkey said:
The FPGA in the Analogue isn't 'emulating' itself as NES hardware. It's 'reconfiguring' itself as NES hardware.

And yeah, any talk of this is knee deep in the niche/enthusiast/hardcore segment. Regular consumers need not apply. ;)

To that segment, that small niche of consumers, that the Analogue has RGB combined with 1080p integer scaled HDMI, with all the connectors (NES cart slot, Famicom cart slot, 4 controllers, microphone, Fami expansion connector), along with no lag, makes it not that all expensive. Seriously.
Click to expand...

Also, isn't the metal the system is made with some military grade aluminum or something crazy like that? I could be wrong but I believe they also sold a batch of Nt systems where their shells were dipped in 24 karat gold that they sold for a couple thousand. Their products are definitely meant to be showpieces.

As for the rough launch they had with the first wave of Nt systems... one would like to think that some lessons were learned. They seem like a smart bunch, so I'm sure this will have a better launch. Having said that, even if it does launch with compatibility issues this new system has SD card support, so installing updates should be far easier this time around than it was for the original system.
 
T

thepenguin55

Member
sixteen-bit said:
Last I heard FGPA SNES consoles aren't ready for primetime yet. NES is more realizable.
Click to expand...

Am I the only one who would be super stoked for a FPGA Sega console with full SG-1000 (including all variations), Sega Master System and Game Gear support? I would be way into that.
 
M

MooMilk2929

Junior Member
This can do 1080p instead of 720p, has screen filters, top loading instead of front loading, and doesn't have online leaderboards. Yes it includes a bad controller but I don't think it's worth it costing twice as much as the AVS.
 
V

Virtua Ben

Member
thepenguin55 said:
Am I the only one who would be super stoked for a FPGA Sega console with full SG-1000 (including all variations), Sega Master System and Game Gear support? I would be way into that.
Click to expand...

I would LOVE that. Genesis, and really anything Sega, doesn't get enough love when it comes to making decent/premium repo consoles.

On a side note, I preordered an NT Mini, but, I think I'll cancel it since I've already got an NT. Honestly, I preordered it because I thought they might run into similar supply issues like they did with the NT, but since this is FPGA and not actual hardware, I don't think that problem will occur again.

Kind of stinks that retroAVS had some of the limelight taken off of them due to the NT Mini. I like both systems, but it seems like the retroUSB guys have a lot harder time getting people to talk about their system.
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
MooMilk2929 said:
This can do 1080p instead of 720p, has screen filters, top loading instead of front loading, and doesn't have online leaderboards. Yes it includes a bad controller but I don't think it's worth it costing twice as much as the AVS.
Click to expand...

The AVS can't do analog out. That's a deal breaker.

Do you know how much it costs to buy an AV Famicom and have it modded for RGB? For HDMI? For both?

That's what you should be comparing to.
 
M

MooMilk2929

Junior Member
Well, that isn't a plus to me. I don't use crt's or light guns. I would use the HDMI port if I ever got one of those systems. More advanced light gun games might be fun, but I never found 8-bit light gun games that fun. They got boring fast. Not until they made 3d scrolling stages did they get fun to me.
 
T

Type40

Member
These guys still haven't learned that their biggest problem is their pricing. If they dropped that aluminum nonsense and went with normal plastic they could bring it down to $300. Why buy this when I can get the same thing from RetroUSB for about $200 less.
Beer Monkey said:
The AVS can't do analog out. That's a deal breaker.
Click to expand...
Analog AV is dead. Pretty soon every tube tv will give up the ghost, even the 3 that I have.

Hesemonni said:
Wait, I was under the impression that 8bitdo wireless controllers introduced lag?
Click to expand...

They sure do. RetroUSB "supposedly" has one in development that is lag free.
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
Type40 said:
Analog AV is dead. Pretty soon every tube tv will give up the ghost, even the 3 that I have.
Click to expand...

Not a problem at all, I have a repair tech and two sons that are apprentices that do CRT repair. A buddy of mine owns an arcade and has CRTs that he repairs that are as old as 1979. My most recent broadcast CRT is from 2005. I'll play on CRTs until I die if I want, I have no worries.
 
D

davidwhangchoi

Member
Beer Monkey said:
Not a problem at all, I have a repair tech and two sons that are apprentices that do CRT repair. A buddy of mine owns an arcade and has CRTs that he repairs that are as old as 1979. My most recent broadcast CRT is from 2005. I'll play on CRTs until I die if I want, I have no worries.
Click to expand...

CRT is best!
 
C

cacophony555

Member
Battlesmurf said:
My only issue with the last one is that scanlines didn't work so well at 1080P on the last Analogue NT. I'd be game for this if it addressed that, but my understanding is that there was some kind of limitation with the Kevtris HDMI nes that prevented that last go around, if this is still HDMI nes based.

http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12019&start=285

^ this - 5x scaling, even scanlines at 1080p.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you're in luck:

In their technical specs (https://support.analogue.co/hc/en-us/articles/224996908-Analogue-Nt-mini-vs-Analogue-Nt) they say:
"Pixel Formatting: 5x, 4.5x, 4x at 1080p and Horizontal Stretch"

And some confirmation here:
https://twitter.com/analogue_co/status/768254308567486469?cn=cmVwbHk=&refsrc=email
 
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