• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Analogue Nt mini: NES/Famicoms final form - Kevtris FPGA, aluminum, 1080P, $449

pete_clarf

Member
Feb 17, 2014
2,227
2
0
Nebraska
I totally missed the September thing when I ordered it. I see it now, plain as day. Thanks for answering, everyone! I have a long wait ahead of me.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
May 28, 2014
2,038
0
360
Finally took the plunge, as well. The price is hard to swallow, but nothing matches as well to my wants and needs. The investment needed for a solid scaler makes it an easier decision. Supporting the work of folks like kevtris is also a no brainer. Maybe we will get that 16-bit ALL MACHINE at some point. Until then, this will simplify a considerable amount of things for me, so September cannot come soon enough.

Now to figure out what the first game I'll play will be... hmm..
 

GreenMonkey

Member
Apr 26, 2011
867
0
0
So for anyone trying one of the new retroUSB wireless controllers on this, just a heads-up. When I plug it in, it hangs the mini with the A symbol (like when the console shuts down / boots up).

Seems to work fine as long as you plug in before you boot up.

Took me a while to figure out what was going on.
 

sixteen-bit

Member
Aug 16, 2006
169,296
27
0
So basically avoid hotswapping? I've always had an irrational fear of blowing out controller ports by plugging in controllers while a system is on (prolly cuz Dreamcast was so finicky with this).
 

GreenMonkey

Member
Apr 26, 2011
867
0
0
So basically avoid hotswapping? I've always had an irrational fear of blowing out controller ports by plugging in controllers while a system is on (prolly cuz Dreamcast was so finicky with this).

Yup, seems to work fine as long as they are plugged in before it boots up. If you forget and hang it up, you can just power down and power back up, but I worry about corrupting something in the file system.
 

Gintamen

Member
Jun 6, 2011
2,742
0
660
And it's still ugly and made of expensive aluminum. People should get the Retro USB AVS instead.

And this reads more like an Advertisement then an OT.
Aluminium isn't expensive... but agree to the second point.

Willl survive with a Rpi3.
 

GreenMonkey

Member
Apr 26, 2011
867
0
0
How does the new RetroUSB controllers work? Do they feel good? Responsive? Worth it?

I posted in the 8bitdo thread, but I really like it. The buttons and pad are clicky / microswitch-y like a joystick, including the d-pad, (which I'm not a big fan of for a d-pad, but the control is really good).

I like it enough that I ordered another, just because these kinds things tend to be in short supply. Look at the pre-order backlog for the AVS.

I haven't had a lot of time with it yet (maybe half an hour) since I got it on Monday, but I'll try to play with it a little more tonight. I'm going to be trying it in my NES classic (via mayflash NES classic adapter) and my fledgling retropie setup via a retrobit NES adapter.
 

Decider

Member
Sep 18, 2012
1,068
0
0
Slight delay to shipping:

https://support.analogue.co/hc/en-us/articles/115001555652-Nt-mini-2nd-Production-Shipping-in-Oct

The Nt mini second production units are currently in transit via Sea Freight to our office in Seattle. We expect the freight to be delivered to us in the last week of Sept. We might be able to get units shipped out in the last days of Sept, but it will likely be the couple weeks of Oct to get them all shipped out.

Fortunately, all units arrive to us pre-packaged and ready to ship. Once in our hands, we should have all orders shipped within one work week. All pre-orders will be shipping prioritized in the order they were received. As soon as your order ships, you will receive an email with your tracking number.

We appreciate your patience and apologize for this slight delay. We look forward to getting your Analogue Nt mini in your hands. Please follow us on social media (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram) and we will be sure to notify everyone once the units arrive to us in Seattle.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
May 28, 2014
2,038
0
360
Delay is a very slight bummer but no big deal and still looking forward.

Looking to pick up an SD card, has anyone tried an SDXC on it? I'd like to never have to think about storage at all. Might grab an SDHC instead just to play it safe.

Also, starting to stack up some homebrew/hacks that I'd like to check out as I've never had a way to play on "real" (or at least close enough) hardware. Might make a thread about it after I've been able to play through stuff. Send suggestions my way.

This looks cool.. Metroid - Rogue Dawn


 
Jan 28, 2014
133
0
450
Delay is a very slight bummer but no big deal and still looking forward.

Looking to pick up an SD card, has anyone tried an SDXC on it? I'd like to never have to think about storage at all. Might grab an SDHC instead just to play it safe.

Also, starting to stack up some homebrew/hacks that I'd like to check out as I've never had a way to play on "real" (or at least close enough) hardware. Might make a thread about it after I've been able to play through stuff. Send suggestions my way.

This looks cool.. Metroid - Rogue Dawn


I am currently using a 32gb sd card. I have it loaded up with all of the systems that the jailbreak currently supports and there is still plenty of space left. I do recommend doing a google search for "smoke monster roms" and the first link that pops up will have some great collections to get you on your way. They update them on a somewhat monthly basis and they make great additions to the Mini Nt's jailbreak functionality.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Mar 3, 2005
23,925
5
1,225
Cincinnati
www.tehbias.com
I really hope Kevtris gets to add a few more systems someday. I know Intellivision is a given. Neo Geo Pocket Color would be amazing as would Atari Lynx. He once said he might be able to get around the memory bandwidth issues with PC Engine. I can dream.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
May 28, 2014
2,038
0
360
I am currently using a 32gb sd card. I have it loaded up with all of the systems that the jailbreak currently supports and there is still plenty of space left. I do recommend doing a google search for "smoke monster roms" and the first link that pops up will have some great collections to get you on your way. They update them on a somewhat monthly basis and they make great additions to the Mini Nt's jailbreak functionality.

Fair, I am probably over thinking growth space. I might fiddle with some other cores initially just to get a feel for things but I plan to focus on just NES for a little while. I'm very prone to the problem of if there are 900 things to play I will dabble with all of them for 15 mins rather than settle down on one and focus so I'd like to avoid that.

My rough plan is to focus on a single game and either play/replay and also check out various romhacks. For example I am very curious about what playing through the Simon's Quest re-translation feels like fresh.
 

ToastyFrog

Inexplicable Treasure Hate
Nov 21, 2004
1,220
1
0
SF, CA
I really hope Kevtris gets to add a few more systems someday. I know Intellivision is a given. Neo Geo Pocket Color would be amazing as would Atari Lynx. He once said he might be able to get around the memory bandwidth issues with PC Engine. I can dream.

How does NGPC compare in terms of power to PC Engine? It used a proper 16-bit chip. I'd love to have NGPC on there, but I don't want to get caught in dreams that can only lead to heartbreak…
 
Jan 28, 2014
133
0
450
Fair, I am probably over thinking growth space. I might fiddle with some other cores initially just to get a feel for things but I plan to focus on just NES for a little while. I'm very prone to the problem of if there are 900 things to play I will dabble with all of them for 15 mins rather than settle down on one and focus so I'd like to avoid that.

My rough plan is to focus on a single game and either play/replay and also check out various romhacks. For example I am very curious about what playing through the Simon's Quest re-translation feels like fresh.

Good plan. I usually tend to play lots in little bursts than to take my time with it. Also, Rouge Dawn is awesome. Well worth digging into.
 

Decider

Member
Sep 18, 2012
1,068
0
0
Fair, I am probably over thinking growth space. I might fiddle with some other cores initially just to get a feel for things but I plan to focus on just NES for a little while. I'm very prone to the problem of if there are 900 things to play I will dabble with all of them for 15 mins rather than settle down on one and focus so I'd like to avoid that.

Same. I'm planning to have a carefully curated set of games and fan translations for each core, instead of everything and the kitchen sink. I don't think I've looked at half of what's on my Everdrive N8.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Mar 3, 2005
23,925
5
1,225
Cincinnati
www.tehbias.com
How does NGPC compare in terms of power to PC Engine? It used a proper 16-bit chip. I'd love to have NGPC on there, but I don't want to get caught in dreams that can only lead to heartbreak...

I don't think 16 bit CPUs are an issue; Kevin has said that the Genesis/Megadrive may be in reach. SNES is not, despite having a weaker CPU; it's all the specialty processors that make it hard. Complex silicon; not enough gates in the FPGA.
 

catabarez

Member
Mar 20, 2011
5,128
0
0
I wonder since Kevtris is making those cartridge adapters for the NT Mini, if we'd be able to dump the ROMs like the CopyNES function.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
May 28, 2014
2,038
0
360
I don't think 16 bit CPUs are an issue; Kevin has said that the Genesis/Megadrive may be in reach. SNES is not, despite having a weaker CPU; it's all the specialty processors that make it hard. Complex silicon; not enough gates in the FPGA.

I wonder since Kevtris is making those cartridge adapters for the NT Mini, if we'd be able to dump the ROMs like the CopyNES function.

I read through the bulk of that AA thread to get a better feel for things and that is the same impression I got. Sounds like there is still plenty he would like to explore and get back to, but no major promises beyond what is already on the list.

I am genuinely curious what his current project is and when we will hear more. The ALL machine that covers everything up to mid-ish 90s would simplify so much for me that I would love for it to be something along those lines, but interested in whatever it is regardless of my own selfish wants.
 

Kawika

Member
Jun 20, 2014
527
20
505
I read through the bulk of that AA thread to get a better feel for things and that is the same impression I got. Sounds like there is still plenty he would like to explore and get back to, but no major promises beyond what is already on the list.

I am genuinely curious what his current project is and when we will hear more. The ALL machine that covers everything up to mid-ish 90s would simplify so much for me that I would love for it to be something along those lines, but interested in whatever it is regardless of my own selfish wants.

I have so many consoles hooked up at the moment. Honestly, I don't know if its worth it. I am glad my retro systems live in a closet, not under my tv. If I could get the all console to the mid 90s I think I would be so happy. I would retire so many of my consoles and bring them out on special occasions. Playing these are all possible on Raspberry pi but I just don't want to go that route. I like real hardware and fpga seems like the only reasonable option for someone like me as an alternative.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Jul 21, 2015
10,086
12
0
Why should I buy this when I can just get a Retron5 where I can use 5 different cartridges and also have a razor sharp native pixel clear 1080p picture?

I also don't understand why it costs more than a PS4 Pro. Is it the aluminum? That's stupid.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Mar 3, 2005
23,925
5
1,225
Cincinnati
www.tehbias.com
Drive by shitposters who think this is expensive GTFO. The NT Mini does far more and better than the alternatives. Sheesh, it's like it's a new thread all over again. I'd need a dedicated room full of RGB modded consoles and stuff like a console-ized Game Gear to replace it and it wouldn't be cheaper, it would cost more.

If it's not for you that's fine, go elsewhere.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
May 28, 2014
2,038
0
360
Hot takes coming in toasty.

There are a plethora of reviews you can seek out on the advantages of FPGA hardware emulation over cheap android/pi/or whatever else solutions. No point in reiterating it all but in summary this is the best it gets beyond modded og hardware.

If the value proposition doesn't work out for you, cool. But there are loads of resources to get informed that is only a YouTube search away.
 

CharlesDangus

Member
Sep 28, 2012
119
0
0
I wonder since Kevtris is making those cartridge adapters for the NT Mini, if we'd be able to dump the ROMs like the CopyNES function.

While it's possible, he would have to write additional "dumping cores" for each console, since each console had its own quirks regarding mappers and ROM layout etc. as well as making sure the dumps match the corresponding format currently in use for each console. I believe Kevtris said while it's possible, it's not a priority.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Mar 3, 2005
23,925
5
1,225
Cincinnati
www.tehbias.com
What are the key advantages of this to the AVS?

Currently? The main differences are 1080p support, RGB support and in addition to NES/Famicom it also runs these via SD card:

Atari 2600
Atari 7800
Arcadia 2001
Adventure Vision (Entex)
Channel F (Fairchild)
ColecoVision
CreatiVision (VTECH)
Gamate
GameKing (Timetop)
Kevtris's NSF Player
Nintendo Game Boy
Nintendo Game Boy Color
Odyssey² (Magnavox)
Sega Game Gear
Sega Master System & SG-1000 Computer Videogame
Studio II (RCA)
Supervision (Watara)
VideoBrain Family Computer

Also it has better support for the Famicom games with enhanced audio. And it runs the NES/Famicom games via SD card also, so you largely get free Everdrive-ish functionality.
 

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Mar 31, 2009
21,803
2
755
Also it has better support for the Famicom games with enhanced audio. And it runs the NES/Famicom games via SD card also, so you largely get free Everdrive-ish functionality.

So it has actual better emulation of certain games compared to the AVS? By enhanced audio do you mean it better emulates games like vania 3 or lagrange point that had extra chips?
 

CharlesDangus

Member
Sep 28, 2012
119
0
0
Hot takes coming in toasty.

There are a plethora of reviews you can seek out on the advantages of FPGA hardware emulation over cheap android/pi/or whatever else solutions. No point in reiterating it all but in summary this is the best it gets beyond modded og hardware.

If the value proposition doesn't work out for you, cool. But there are loads of resources to get informed that is only a YouTube search away.

It's similar to saying "why do I need blu ray when I can get by on VHS and much cheaper?".

Also the retron5 is particularly shitty. It just dumps the carts then plays in an Android emulator. If you're going to emulate, just do a retropie, that way you can choose the best emulation cores for each system.

I will admit, the NT Mini didn't seem worth it at all to me when it was only an NES. When I found out about the "jailbreak" firmware with all the additional FPGA cores, it almost seems like 500 bucks is theft.

Assume you can get over the philosophical/nostalgia/categorical hangups regarding FPGA hardware simulation vs original hardware. Here's all the gear and mods the NT Mini collapses into one 500$ box:

FrameMeister or OSSC
NES/Famicom console
NES RGB mod
Hi Def NES
NES Everdrive

Sega Master System
SMS Everdrive

Sega SG-1000

Sega Game Gear
Game Gear Everdrive
Game Gear RGB/VGA/TV-out mod

Gameboy/Color Everdrive
Gameboy Player/PAL GameCube/RGB cable

Ditto to all these below systems
Colecovision
Supervision
Gamate
GameKing
Atari2600
Atari7800
Arcadia 2001
Fairchild Channel F
Creativision
Odyssey^2
RCA Studio 2
Adventure Vision
Videobrain
 

catabarez

Member
Mar 20, 2011
5,128
0
0
While it's possible, he would have to write additional "dumping cores" for each console, since each console had its own quirks regarding mappers and ROM layout etc. as well as making sure the dumps match the corresponding format currently in use for each console. I believe Kevtris said while it's possible, it's not a priority.

Hopefully he's able to find the time to do it. I'm still waiting for those cartridge adapters to come out!
 

CharlesDangus

Member
Sep 28, 2012
119
0
0
waiting for 32-bit NT

Kev did say that PS1 is probably the limit for the current tech/ his skills. I think he said N64 would push beyond either current clock speeds or bandwidth, I can't remember which. I think Saturn is probably too exotic and undocumented.

Edit: I also asked Kev about 32X and Sega CD and he said they're very complicated and shouldn't be expected at any point in the foreseeable future.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
May 28, 2014
2,038
0
360
Kev did say that PS1 is probably the limit for the current tech/ his skills. I think he said N64 would push beyond either current clock speeds or bandwidth, I can't remember which. I think Saturn is probably too exotic and undocumented.

Edit: I also asked Kev about 32X and Sega CD and he said they're very complicated and shouldn't be expected at any point in the foreseeable future.

Entirely speculation on my part, of course, but reading through the thread Kevtris made it clear that having another FPGA would make things easier/solve so many problems, so my totally weak and obvious prediction is he is working on a dual FPGA machine that would be way more capable across the board in how it could divide its workload.

And I would gladly give him an arm and a leg, as well as rob a few graves for bonus limb payment for such a beast of a machine.
 

CharlesDangus

Member
Sep 28, 2012
119
0
0
Entirely speculation on my part, of course, but reading through the thread Kevtris made it clear that having another FPGA would make things easier/solve so many problems, so my totally weak and obvious prediction is he is working on a dual FPGA machine that would be way more capable across the board in how it could divide its workload.

And I would gladly give him an arm and a leg, as well as rob a few graves for bonus limb payment for such a beast of a machine.

As far as I understand it, the dual FPGA solution would be to offload all the scaling to its own FPGA, and free up space on the other FPGA for the system logic. The real hard work is reverse engineering custom, sometimes undocumented system components to figure out exactly how they behave.
 

Sanic

Member
Oct 30, 2009
5,313
0
935
I'm a little unclear - could I order one of these now and still get a unit from that first batch that's shipping later this month/early October, or am I out of luck?
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
May 28, 2014
2,038
0
360
As far as I understand it, the dual FPGA solution would be to offload all the scaling to its own FPGA, and free up space on the other FPGA for the system logic. The real hard work is reverse engineering custom, sometimes undocumented system components to figure out exactly how they behave.

Point. I was under the impression transistor counts was one of the bigger limitations, but I also suppose raw clock speed can't be forgotten when it comes to these things. Not to mention, as you say, just the legwork of reverse engineering it all.


I'm a little unclear - could I order one of these now and still get a unit from that first batch that's shipping later this month/early October, or am I out of luck?

Kevtris a few weeks back had this relevant exchange..

Q: Hey Kevtris, had a quick ? For you. I am thinking hard about putting a preorder down for the Analogue NT Mini before they start shipping this month, but i'm afraid that if I do that now that i'll be stuck at the end of the preorder line waiting for months for mine to ship. Do you know if there will indeed be enough stock to fulfill preorders that are placed now vs months ago? I tried contacting Analogue thru the website but haven't been able to reach anyone.

Kevtris: Pretty sure it will ship when they arrive if you preorder now.

Q: Will preorders be up for at least a few more days if I need time to decide?

Kevtris: I don't know how long they will be up, I only do the programming/hardware end and not the sales end of the equation.

So looks likely but probably best to reach out to Analogue themselves if you want to be sure. I'd assume they would take the pre-order down if they were unable to fulfill them.