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Andrew Sullivan: Why Is Wokeness Winning?

EviLore

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Good read by Andrew Sullivan on why woke culture went mainstream, and why it's difficult to push back against:


"




A question I’ve wrestled with this past year or so is a pretty basic one: if critical race/gender/queer theory is unfalsifiable postmodern claptrap, as I have long contended, how has it conquered so many institutions so swiftly?

It’s been a staggering achievement, when you come to think of it. Critical theory was once an esoteric academic pursuit. Now it has become the core, underlying philosophy of the majority of American cultural institutions, universities, media, corporations, liberal churches, NGOs, philanthropies, and, of course, mainstream journalism. This summer felt like a psychic break from old-school liberalism, a moment when a big part of the American elite just decided to junk the principles that have long defined American democratic life, and embrace what Bari Weiss calls “a mixture of postmodernism, postcolonialism, identity politics, neo-Marxism, critical race theory, intersectionality, and the therapeutic mentality.”

It’s everywhere. Across the country, schools and colleges are dumping SATs so they can engineer racial equity, and abolish the idea of merit. The Smithsonian backed the idea that working hard, showing up on time and perfecting a task are functions of “whiteness”. In California, there’s a ballot initiative to legalize government discrimination on the basis of race; and a new mandate that company boards add members from under-represented communities. Corporations who haven’t publicly committed themselves to the full woke project are being hounded by their employees into doing so, meaning hiring and firing on the basis of race, or forcing employees into re-education sessions, guided by DiAngelo and Kendi. The NBA, for Pete’s sake, is now a festival of wokeness, even as viewership collapses. CRT propaganda like the NYT’s 1619 Project can be exposed as untrue and unethical, but the paper can both debunk it in its own pages and still hail it as a triumph. And the pièce de resistance: 21 percent of liberal students in the Ivy League favor some level of violence to stop campus speech they disapprove of.

There seems no stopping this. But why? Why this powerful, seemingly inevitable shift, especially among white elites? I’d posit some obvious reasons, but this is a rough guess and I hope we can start a conversation here about the reason for this astonishing change — and how better to engage it.

The first, it seems to me, is emotional. The reason so many people marched this summer was because of a righteous revulsion at the visceral image of a black man being murdered slowly on the street by a bad, white cop. This revulsion is a vital and important thing — and it’s completely compatible with a liberal attempt to reform the cops and criminal justice to ensure equal treatment under the law for everyone of every race. In fact, there is considerable bipartisan support for a pragmatic shift.

But this was emphatically not the core message of the Black Lives Matter movement, rooted in critical theory. BLM’s critical race activists do not support reforming the police, they want to abolish them entirely. In fact, they demonize all cops as “bastards”, and they justify violence and exonerate crime as legitimate resistance to the far greater crime of white oppression.

Liberals, concerned about resilient racial inequality, have simply decided to ignore this. Or they think that a little radicalism is no bad thing in a polarized time: the usual “no enemies to the left” mantra in the era of Trump and white nationalism. I can see why people take this path of least resistance, but what we’ve seen is simple avoidance of the deeper issue of CRT’s profound illiberalism, a dismissal of it, or an anti-anti-woke position that sees opponents as mere hysterics (and maybe racists).

And the CRT advocates have brilliantly managed to construct a crude moral binary to pressure liberals into submission. Where liberalism allows neutrality or doubt or indifference, CRT demands an absolute and immediate choice between racism and anti-racism (defined by CRT) — and no one wants to be a racist, do they? Legitimate anguish about racial inequality and the sheer terror of being publicly labeled a bigot have led liberals to surrender their core values to the far left.

The second reason for CRT’s triumph is that it’s super-easy. Social inequalities are extremely complicated things. A huge variety of factors may be in play: class, family structure, education, neighborhood, sex, biology, genetics and culture are some of them. Untangling this empirically in order to figure out what might actually work to improve things is hard work. But when you can simply dismiss all of these factors and cite “structural racism” as the only reason for any racial inequality, and also cover yourself in moral righteousness, you’re home-free. Those who raise objections or complications or cite nuances can be dismissed by the same easy method.

Then there’s the deep relationship between CRT and one of the most powerful human drives: tribalism. What antiracism brilliantly does is adopt all the instincts of racism and sexism — seeing someone and instantly judging them by the color of their skin, or sex — and drape them with a veil of virtue. You don’t have to correct yourself when your tribal psyche makes you more cognizant of someone’s visible racial differences, and pre-judges them. You don’t have to resist this any more. You can give in to your core nature, and feel pride, rather than shame. You get to have all the feels of judging people entirely by their involuntary characteristics, while actually dismantling racism and sexism! What’s not to like?

Social aspiration also plays a part. The etiquette of wokery is increasingly indispensable for high society. They mark you as someone high up in the American social hierarchy. The right words and phrases signal your ease in this elite; the wrong ones — “sexual preference”! — expose you as a rube, a bigot or, worse, a middle class provincial. Rob Henderson argues that this aspiration to be in the upper classes helps explain why Asian-Americans, who are targeted for direct race discrimination under CRT, nonetheless often support it: “While money and education are tickets to the middle class, prizing diversity is a requirement to join the upper class. It’s part of what the sociologist Pierre Bourdieu referred to as cultural capital — tastes, vocabulary, awareness and mannerisms which give social advantages to those higher in the social hierarchy.” Reihan Salam has also written brilliantly about this.

There’s little doubt, either, it seems to me that there is a religious component to wokeness. A generation of nones can feel bereft of transcendence and meaning, and “becoming woke”, like being “born again,” fills that spiritual hole. In an atomized and lonely age, feeling as if you are on “the right side of history”, banishing doubt, joining with countless of your fellow converts in marches and seminars, can abate the isolation and emptiness of it all. Many moderns want the experience of religion without God. With CRT, as in the past with communism, they can have it.

But what also make CRT so successful is ruthlessness. Those who hold a view of the world in which only power, and the struggle for power, matters, have few qualms in exercising it. After all, under CRT, power is always on the side of the white cis-heteropatriarchy, so payback is always fair play. Discriminating against the unwoke or whites or males or the cis-gendered or Asian-American, is not just fair, but vital. Shutting down speech protects the oppressed; bullying on social media and in the workplace becomes a form of virtue; mercy and forgiveness are mere buttresses for white supremacy; HR departments diligently identify dissidents, and discipline them. Once you set up this system of censorship and fear, persecute a few prominent sinners pour décourager les autres, and encourage snitches, dissidents will increasingly self-censor, and dissent peter out, until the new orthodoxy is the only one.

In the past, a new set of ideas could be engaged in a clash of argument and debate. But you’ll notice that the advocates of what Wes Yang has called “the successor ideology” never debate any serious opponents of their position. This is because debate in a liberal society implies equal standing for both sides, and uses reason to determine who’s right or wrong. But there can be no “both sides” within CRT, no equation of “racists” and “antiracists”, and debates are inherently oppressive. Logic, evidence, and reason are, in this worldview, mere products of white supremacy, forms of violence against the oppressed. In CRT, remember, there is no truth or objectivity; there are merely narratives. So, yes, 2 + 2 = 5, and math is inherently a function of whiteness. And what racist is going to deny this?

The truth is that liberal democracy is hard, counter-intuitive, complicated and requires self-restraint, reason, and toleration at levels most humans are incapable of. That’s why it is such a rare and fleeting exception in the world today and all but non-existent for the vast majority of human history. Critical race theory is much more attuned to human nature. It gives you the simplest template for understanding the world, it assigns you virtue if you assent, it gives you instant power over others purely because of your and their identity, and it requires nothing more than tribal instinct to thrive. That’s why it is here to stay. And why the fight for liberalism is going to be long and hard and require as much courage, steel, and rigor as we can muster.
"
 

showernota

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It's a parasite that is easily transmissible to education, work, social life, and religion. I don't think it will ever be eradicated, there may just be lulls between flare ups from now on.
 
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CloudNull

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Fantastic read. He hit it the nail on the head with "What antiracism brilliantly does is adopt all the instincts of racism and sexism — seeing someone and instantly judging them by the color of their skin, or sex — and drape them with a veil of virtue. You don’t have to correct yourself when your tribal psyche makes you more cognizant of someone’s visible racial differences, and pre-judges them. You don’t have to resist this any more. You can give in to your core nature, and feel pride, rather than shame. You get to have all the feels of judging people entirely by their involuntary characteristics, while actually dismantling racism and sexism! What’s not to like? "

The woke has taken a human characteristic that has been around since the evolution of man, one that we have constantly been trying to get away from, the idea of judging people on appearance alone and flipped it. Now judging people without getting to know them is praised. This is probably one of the most unique ideas of wokeness I have read.

Also, the religious aspect is huge but that is something I have been aware of for a while. Thanks for the article.
 

Shodan09

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I think its just that the vast majority of people want to be seen to be doing the right thing. If social media screams loud enough about what that right thing is, then many won't argue. Chuck in issues of race and bigotry and you've instantly got a concept nobody is going to feel comfortable disagreeing with even if its founded on lies and half truths.
 

Whataborman

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It is winning because if you go against it you are labelled a racist of course with no proof and that can kill a person's career, family life and social life.
And in order to stop it from winning, people are going to have to go against it despite this.

It's winning because (most) conservatives don't have the balls to stand up and fight it.

Case in point: Look at all of the conservative talking heads that bitched and moaned about twitter and facebook censoring the Biden story earlier this week. What else did they do? How many of them said "Fuck twitter" and cancelled their accounts so they wouldn't be associated with the company? I bet I could count the number on one hand.

"Wokeness" is going to continue to win until people actually start to fight back, consequences of doing so be damned.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Good read. Wokeness is definitely "easy", that's for sure. It makes average (and below-average) people feel like history-shaping heroes.

I don't think wokeness is winning, though. I think the secular artifices (media, academia, watchdog orgs) are going through the same enema that the "christian majority" did in the West. We have placed too much trust in them for too long, and bad hombres have used these artifices to manipulate us and leash us. These artifices are now dying as a result until the nozzle gets inserted, and then we deal with a lot of smelly blowback until things hopefully return to "normal".

What appears to be "wokeness winning" is the True Believers running the show without enough Practical Men Of Action to temper their insanity. Yes, they are "winning" in specific spheres of influence from which many people get their meaning in life, but again I do not believe this is no different than past religious subversions / radicalizations.

I think it's a mistake to fight wokeness by fighting its peons. They aren't going away. They will move to the next cult. The way to fight against wokeness is to reclaim / rebuild / out-compete the artifices that are currently feeding wokeness to the masses via nutrient tubes. I think the new artifices already exist (like the internet) and society is already in the process of rebuilding.
 

Scotty W

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I am persuaded that the psychological function of wokeness is to atone with God, even though God is dead.

Without God, the value of pity cannot be established, and so it must be proclaimed by fiat. The danger is that it is easier just to simply reject all morality. These people will be much more dangerous.
 

CloudNull

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I think it's a mistake to fight wokeness by fighting its peons. They aren't going away. They will move to the next cult. The way to fight against wokeness is to reclaim / rebuild / out-compete the artifices that are currently feeding wokeness to the masses via nutrient tubes.
This is the key right here. Too many times I have to remind myself that the people dont actually believe the stuff they are spouting they are just doing it to be part of the movement. Arguing with them wont matter because they will move onto the next "hip" thing soon as this has died down.
 

NorwayBot

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“While money and education are tickets to the middle class, prizing diversity is a requirement to join the upper class. It’s part of what the sociologist Pierre Bourdieu referred to as cultural capital — tastes, vocabulary, awareness and mannerisms which give social advantages to those higher in the social hierarchy.”
"If you want to dine with the "fine" people and gain access to their "safe spaces" you've to know the "combination code(s) to these "spaces" to get in".

I read Bourdieu at University over 20 years ago, this was my "cheat sentence" to summarize what Pierre was talking about.

With "high culture", things tend to get thrown out of that segment when something get "bastardized", my prediction or hope rather ,- is that when the inevitable "monetization" of "wokeness" occurs, our overlords at the top will make it toxic.
 
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Grinchy

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It is winning because if you go against it you are labelled a racist of course with no proof and that can kill a person's career, family life and social life.
Yeah, it's the same tactic that was used only 70 years ago in the McCarthyism era. Just accuse someone of being a communist, and their life can be ruined overnight.

But now, it's the communists accusing people of being racists or bigots or sexual assaulters and ruining their lives overnight.
 

NorwayBot

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The Smithsonian backed the idea that working hard, showing up on time and perfecting a task are functions of “whiteness”

hell yea boys
"All cultures are equal" :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Whiteness is such a dumb word, what they mean is the "sad effect" traditional European culture has on "other" cultures (the protestant work ethic) , and even more importantly - what sad effect the "Scientific Method" has on "other cultures" that choose not to adhere to that method - either by neglect or lack of ability.

These communists should just come out and say it, that they are Anti-European.

Funny thing is, sad really, the "scientific method" is almost non-existent in the "field" where all these theories about "wokeness" come from - Social Sciences.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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i think it is entirely too easy to call CRT a "triumph" and assume it has won just because you see all your news friends and Twitter friends talking about it if you are a talking head like Andrew Sullivan. it dominates your professional pundit class so it must dominate us all. true, some statues will fall, some names will change, but fundamentally, NOTHING WILL CHANGE. the history books will not be burned. the 1619 project and white fragility will be considered race baiting trash when we look back on them in a decade. CRT is a fake narrative invented by the NYTimes and adopted during an election year in an attempt to influence the election through the educational system. which was already a hotbed of wokeness and always has been. it is the corporate leftist elite performatively and embarassingly virtue signalling for the world, largely as an attempt to influence this election. i almost think it could all be gone by next year.

that's the thing, this isn't anything new, it's just that we are hearing all this lunatic woke shit because of the internet. before the internet, women's rights students were doing all kinds of crazy shit, far left activists were looting and partaking in riots, racial and sexual justice has been a thing in academia for 50+ years now. it just never got reported on TV. now, we hear when any thing happens in the entire world.

honestly i don't see the influence leaving a lasting impression. for one thing, it is not a coherent ideology, it claims to be socialist, yet is entirely dependent on corporate leadership and messaging. there are no new socialist ways of structuring things being proposed. even the "green new deal" is largely a capitalist money making PR scheme for energy companies and utilities. with all CRT's supposed "power" the Democratic presidential candidate has no intention of supporting Medicare 4 All. the man who wrote the Crime Bill that caused much of the racial pain necessitating the CRT in the first place, this is their man! the same racist friend of KKK members and segregationists that had fucked POC lives over. incoherent. the power of CRT, it's largely for show. how else do you explain Joe Biden?

furthermore the idea of "tearing the system down and building back up" is a shockingly naive theory to base constructing a society around. as if you could tear down the entire United States one statue at a time. do they have a single example of a new way to structure society? how did CHAZ work out? they have no ideas, only marketing destruction. they cannot make an influence because they have nothing to offer. furthermore, these socialists have no clue the amount of unprecedented historical genocide by historic socialists they are co-signing with their faux revolutionary rhetoric and virtue signal posturing (with store-bought guillotines, how cute).

they are anti-intellectual, which means they cannot create culture. this is why they try to tear it down.

we have nothing to fear, they have nothing to offer to replace western civilization. it's a most absurd suggestion to even say you could try. then again these people are certifiably, genital-mutilatingly insane.
 
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furthermore the idea of "tearing the system down and building back up" is a shockingly naive theory to base constructing a society around. these socialists have no clue the amount of unprecedented historical genocide they are co-signing with their faux revolutionary rhetoric and virtue signal posturing (with store-bought guillotines, how cute).

they are anti-culture, which means they cannot create culture. this is why they try to tear it down.

we have nothing to fear, they have nothing to offer to replace western civilization.
I think the folks in control do not particularly care about replacing western civilization, I think they just want to see it collapse.

And no the average person has no idea about what they are cosigning, any forward thinking is discouraged, but also they think they are on a righteous mission. This is zealotry stuff.

It's not 'new' perse, we've had warnings about the universities for decades already. It's just that now there is some sort of critical mass, pun not intended.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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I am persuaded that the psychological function of wokeness is to atone with God, even though God is dead.

Without God, the value of pity cannot be established, and so it must be proclaimed by fiat. The danger is that it is easier just to simply reject all morality. These people will be much more dangerous.
Great insight. There's definitely an emotional/spiritual/psychological element here that animates these people, in a way that they do not fully understand.

They are "caught up" in a movement and that's what they want, to be caught up and pulled along into something greater than themselves.
 

MrRogers

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My conclusion after reading that is, the only thing that can stop CRTs march, is an opposing, equally unforgiving force. Maybe old school traditionalism thats aggressive and violent, of which would represent a type of nationalism thats probably undemocratic in form. Classical Liberialism is no match for CRT totalitarism. Classical liberal types like Sullivan are a endangered species in this modern world.

In the end everything has a equal and or greater reaction to the intial action. The CRT leftists could ultimately win this powerplay for the future direction of the west, or be crushed by an ultra traditional nationalist force.... my bet is on CRTs winning though, because i believe that the majority of elites have chosen it for whatever reason to be the new foundation for their brave new (pedo) world.
 
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MrRogers

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I am persuaded that the psychological function of wokeness is to atone with God, even though God is dead.

Without God, the value of pity cannot be established, and so it must be proclaimed by fiat. The danger is that it is easier just to simply reject all morality. These people will be much more dangerous.
Yup, bubbled intellects thought the atrocities of the 20th century (and before) were the endpoint of human violence. The new CRTs are merely a new form of the worst of human instincts. A friend of mine scoffed at a theory i had a few years ago that heretics would be burned alive in public squares ala medieval societies, come this midcentury, in formerly 1st world western nations (hint they'll be 3rd worldish by then). At our last meeting though he warmed (ha!) up to the possibility due to the religious zealotry that Critical race theory demands. We are regressing everyday and all you need to see that fact, is the verbal rants from places like resetera etc.. and the violence worshipping that bubbles to the surface there. They want blood, and the cruelity that comes from that along with absolute power will i believe, bring back a society that reverts to purity which brings the fire to the pyre.
 
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Durask

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One thing about wokeness and CRT - right now woke white people are doing penance and praying but logically they should soon start walking the walk, namely getting rid of white people in every possible position of influence because logically this is the only way to dismantle "white privilege".

Shouldn't they be starting, like, right now?
 

Rikkori

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The real answer:

https:// medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15
 
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Goro Majima

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I think most white people have some level of “white guilt” that we’ve been engrained with since a young age. It’s not a bad thing entirely because you can clearly look at our society and see disparity and plenty of racial issues do exist in our society.

The problem I foresee is that a good portion of this “woke” movement likely preys upon that inner white guilt that we carry. Well what happens to that white guilt when you dial things up to insanity and essentially overburden and exhaust that empathy receptor? You create an environment that formally allowed for the slow and measured pursuit of progress that now becomes polarized, entrenched, and instills resentment where there used to be empathy.

Demanding for the use of and actually using a hatchet on society’s ills instead of the scalpel will not have the long term effect that these people are trying to work towards. There will be a backfire at some point.
 
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CloudNull

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i think it is entirely too easy to call CRT a "triumph" and assume it has won just because you see all your news friends and Twitter friends talking about it if you are a talking head like Andrew Sullivan. it dominates your professional pundit class so it must dominate us all. true, some statues will fall, some names will change, but fundamentally, NOTHING WILL CHANGE. the history books will not be burned. the 1619 project and white fragility will be considered race baiting trash when we look back on them in a decade. CRT is a fake narrative invented by the NYTimes and adopted during an election year in an attempt to influence the election through the educational system. which was already a hotbed of wokeness and always has been. it is the corporate leftist elite performatively and embarassingly virtue signalling for the world, largely as an attempt to influence this election. i almost think it could all be gone by next year.

that's the thing, this isn't anything new, it's just that we are hearing all this lunatic woke shit because of the internet. before the internet, women's rights students were doing all kinds of crazy shit, far left activists were looting and partaking in riots, racial and sexual justice has been a thing in academia for 50+ years now. it just never got reported on TV. now, we hear when any thing happens in the entire world.

honestly i don't see the influence leaving a lasting impression. for one thing, it is not a coherent ideology, it claims to be socialist, yet is entirely dependent on corporate leadership and messaging. there are no new socialist ways of structuring things being proposed. even the "green new deal" is largely a capitalist money making PR scheme for energy companies and utilities. with all CRT's supposed "power" the Democratic presidential candidate has no intention of supporting Medicare 4 All. the man who wrote the Crime Bill that caused much of the racial pain necessitating the CRT in the first place, this is their man! the same racist friend of KKK members and segregationists that had fucked POC lives over. incoherent. the power of CRT, it's largely for show. how else do you explain Joe Biden?

furthermore the idea of "tearing the system down and building back up" is a shockingly naive theory to base constructing a society around. as if you could tear down the entire United States one statue at a time. do they have a single example of a new way to structure society? how did CHAZ work out? they have no ideas, only marketing destruction. they cannot make an influence because they have nothing to offer. furthermore, these socialists have no clue the amount of unprecedented historical genocide by historic socialists they are co-signing with their faux revolutionary rhetoric and virtue signal posturing (with store-bought guillotines, how cute).

they are anti-intellectual, which means they cannot create culture. this is why they try to tear it down.

we have nothing to fear, they have nothing to offer to replace western civilization. it's a most absurd suggestion to even say you could try. then again these people are certifiably, genital-mutilatingly insane.
I agree with you but your first part will only be true if Trump wins. If Trump loses I think CRT will spread fast and free. The last decade has already been one for the record books and it will only get worse of the next 4 years if Biden wins. If Trump wins I think it could be gone In a year or two.
 

It's Jeff

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Do you feel like a loser? Do other people have things that you want? Is it too painful to introspectively examine your own weaknesses?

No problem! CRT and intersectionality have you covered! If you can check any of the many disadvantaged boxes with bonus combo multipliers if you have two or more, you can virtuously cast all of your failings on white men who are nebulously institutional! And the best part is that because blaming others for a lack of accomplishment has no inherent value, you'll continue to feel awful for the rest of your life with a persecution complex feedback loop that cements your misapplied logic.

Wokeness winners are on par with George Noory's callers on Coast to Coast AM. Replace institutional white male racism with the Reptile Elite.
 

boo

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I agree with you but your first part will only be true if Trump wins. If Trump loses I think CRT will spread fast and free. The last decade has already been one for the record books and it will only get worse of the next 4 years if Biden wins. If Trump wins I think it could be gone In a year or two.
This is just fascism under a new name.

Make fun of it when you can. Ask them to walk the walk not just talk the talk.

You‘re woke you say? So you are born a racist then? Why don’t you give away your job to fight oppression?

Wait, did you just assume my gender? No that was my gender one minute ago. Right now I self-identify as the exact opposite.
 
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IDKFA

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Interesting read.

I was listening to the Joe Rogan podcast with Douglas Murray yesterday (the one from this year) and Douglas made a point that more people are not standing up to this because they're afraid.

And you can see why. People don't want to say the wrong thing and be called a racist, fascist or bigot, or even worse in some cases, lose their jobs and have their lives destroyed by saying All Lives Matter or supporting the police forces etc.

Fuck sake, JK Rowling is now labeled as a hateful bigot for standing up for women's rights!

At the risk of sounding like a loon, if we don't stand up to this nonsense then we'll all soon be living in true communist societies where saying the wrong thing will land you in the gulag.
 
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Doczu

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A question I’ve wrestled with this past year or so is a pretty basic one: if critical race/gender/queer theory is unfalsifiable postmodern claptrap, as I have long contended, how has it conquered so many institutions so swiftly?
Because you didn't beat the living shit out of the hippies back in the sixties when you still had the chance and now the US is reaping what was sown.
Seriously, there were KGB defectors literally speaking out that the academia of the US is being infiltrated by helpful idiots, literally called "shit eaters" by the KGB and GRU (for wanting to help spreading the agenda for little to no reward). All those students and academic teachers going on the trips of their life to those exotic places like India, Philipines and got in contact with soviet agents (and did some stuff while on drugs that were used as blackmail). There are handbooks and lectures on how to destroy ones country by turning their children against them, but i guess enough people laughed that this is some conspiracy theory level 4D chess with the illuminati lizardmen to make it a non-issue.
 

Boswollocks

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It's not winning.

Nowadays people have very small social groups vs 20 years ago, as fractures amongst social cliques have turned into chasms, catalysed by labelling of racism, homophobe and trans-rights. As these social groups splinter and shrink - which is an inevitable by-product of pigeon-holing everyone in to smaller and smaller categories, grouped with and reinforced by 'right-think' - it skews ones perception of how many people there really are.

This leads to local groups being super-imposed over global issues. When 100 people, out of 100 million, agree with your cause or insane beliefs, it reinforces people to think that this is a huge and important deal. Soon after that, 'pop' culture begins hoovering up undecided nay-sayers (think Kony 2012) and this in turn snowballs in to what is perceived to be a huge movement.

Basically, it may seem like a big thing on the internet, but the internet is a very little fish in a very very big ocean. Remember, the internet is global, so while 20 people is a lot to you locally and IRL, it doesn't count for crap on the global scale.
 
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MastaKiiLA

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Jun 11, 2020
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It's "winning" because more people are progressive than conservative. It's why modern civilization has been stumbling in the general direction of equality. We're still a long ways away from that, but it's been trending in this direction for decades, and will continue to do so. At least until we reach an equilibrium where forces for change and against it equal balance out. Until then, keep eating those Ls. If you don't like it, learn to love it.
 

Doczu

Member
Aug 17, 2012
3,019
1,393
830
Poland
..From the 1980's fiction (I think??)



Still not too late, but its getting mighty close to reality
It's Cyberpunk baby.

I also loved how Heinlein threw his opinion about the downfall of democracies in Starship Troopers. The book that is, Verhoven shat on the material.
 

KiNeMz

Member
Aug 6, 2019
560
810
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I think a penny drops for all woke ideologues at some stage. I think the intentions are good for most people as they want the best for everyone. But the woke academics have been extremely crafty in tapping into those who begin searching for something that is not what the mainstream sells. Eventually the wokeness around them will turn no them, as that's its true nature, as its design is to devour all due to the fact that it can not be policed. No one can state that its gone too far. There is no left boundary. It just keeps going. Eventually it becomes too much for even the most left.

Its been fascinating and frustrating to watch. I mean it infected our video gaming a long time ago. It was before gamer gate when i started noticing it. I used to love reading the kotakus and the gamespot. Gaming magazines. Great videa gaming news. It was something you yearned for. Then slowly it crept in. My cousin (a non gamer) called me the other day and said something to me that was quite a knockback. He said "You told me this was going to happen 10 years ago." I asked "What would happen?" He said "the bullshit Politcal Correctness. Its in everything now. They even changed the name of "Coon" Cheese because of it." I was taken back, but then got thinking, was Video Gaming wokeness the canary in the coal mine? Maybe not for all but it was for me.

It would be interesting to hear you experiences with this place EviLore EviLore . I remember hearing about this place on the giantbomb, kotaku podcasts. I tried to join back then but my account was never approved. Then that event happened and these podcasts and sites vilified you and this place. It was absolute slander and at that time i knew nothing of it and took their word for it. NOw i realise it was a woke targeted disinformation attack. Which happens all day everyday now. So I went to visit the resetere due to the buzz and it took me only a few thread reads to realized, Whoa, This is not the place for me. These people are out of their minds. So I joined here. Glad I did.

But yea, I think their will be a turning point. The camels back will break for all people at some stage. The woketevism will turn on those at something that is dear to them at some stage which will be their second awakening. We just need to be patient. This time will be looked back on in history as the time those went to far.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
May 30, 2004
27,511
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It would be interesting to hear you experiences with this place EviLore EviLore . I remember hearing about this place on the giantbomb, kotaku podcasts. I tried to join back then but my account was never approved. Then that event happened and these podcasts and sites vilified you and this place. It was absolute slander and at that time i knew nothing of it and took their word for it. NOw i realise it was a woke targeted disinformation attack. Which happens all day everyday now. So I went to visit the resetere due to the buzz and it took me only a few thread reads to realized, Whoa, This is not the place for me. These people are out of their minds. So I joined here. Glad I did.
The damage was done all in one shot, to my character and to GAF, without being able to mount a defense. There was nothing left to do but press on and rebuild, address the underlying community issues that I could identify, and let people draw their own conclusions as you have. It's taken a few years but things are headed in a positive direction.
 

Durask

Member
Feb 6, 2012
2,506
1,731
770
But yea, I think their will be a turning point. The camels back will break for all people at some stage. The woketevism will turn on those at something that is dear to them at some stage which will be their second awakening. We just need to be patient. This time will be looked back on in history as the time those went to far.
Well I wonder if some people in Russia were saying the same thing in 1917.

Sure there was a turning point - after 75 years and a few million dead people. 😕
 
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