Geki-D
Banned
...Yeah, this guy is deep down the "anti SJW" rabbit hole at this point. Guess he's gotta grift to the audience he's cultivated.
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Angry Joe reviews The Last of Us Part II (Story spoilers obv.)
- Thread starter Senua
- Start date
...Yeah, this guy is deep down the "anti SJW" rabbit hole at this point. Guess he's gotta grift to the audience he's cultivated.
GymWolf
Member
I stopped when he says that abby has the best skills and weapons, factually not true, just the fact that ellie can kill clickers from behind without creating shivs is a far better feature than anything abby does, also his melee combo with the knife do more damage than abby's punches.
Ellie even get a fucking silenced smg ffs and abby doesn't get to use molotov like he said in the video...
This guy is so eager to scream for show that sometimes he can't even get his fact straight.
The other joe as ellie is hilarious as ever tho.
The game is clearly not a 10\10 but 6\10 is a bit harsh imo.
Ellie even get a fucking silenced smg ffs and abby doesn't get to use molotov like he said in the video...
This guy is so eager to scream for show that sometimes he can't even get his fact straight.
The other joe as ellie is hilarious as ever tho.
The game is clearly not a 10\10 but 6\10 is a bit harsh imo.
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Airbus Jr
Banned
This game has so much potential for dark humor comedy.
They should just make a Scary Movie-like parody.
Then this is the review you want
Man Alex is so big...
Joe and Other Joe look small next to him..
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Wait, CohhCarnage wasn't a big fan? My bad, I take it all back, clearly it's a bad game.
Yoboman
Member
If Abby never clicks with you at least on an empathetic level in any way it falls apart. For me I ended up understanding her perspective, I didn't think she was redeemed at all and thinking she deserved to die but Ellie had been through enough and didn't want her doing it. I also thought Lev had been through enough shit, which is where I think the writers wanted me to land
I think it asks a lot though to put yourself in that mindset to even want to mildly be in her shoes. I hated it at first. And if I was doing my playthrough as a live stream with funny memes about how shit Abby is constantly flying from the chat I don't think I'd ever buy into her story either
I think it asks a lot though to put yourself in that mindset to even want to mildly be in her shoes. I hated it at first. And if I was doing my playthrough as a live stream with funny memes about how shit Abby is constantly flying from the chat I don't think I'd ever buy into her story either
Stuart360
Member
You're allowed to like what you want, thats what makes us human, thats a GOOD thing. Just dont get salty and cry about when other people dont feel the same.
HawarMiran
Banned
Why are you even in this thread? You have Xbox brandmarked over your buttcheeks
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
by how far she travelled?
I don't care if it was left or right of Jackson
From where they was overlooking and the amount of ground she covered
She would have been closer to Jackson
The tracks in the snow from the patrol kinda reveals how close she was
But you're probably right
Honestly if it didn't have to live up to the first game a lot of stuff would be overlooked.
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Explosive Zombie
Banned
You're saying that like I WANT these people to agree with me.
Stuart360
Member
Well you certainly get very defensive to say you dont care.
At the end of the day, when you get 10's across the board you open yourself up for this level of scrutiny. The same thing happened with Read Dead 2, and its happening here.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I didn't say I didn't care, I said I don't want them agreeing with me.
What happened with Red Dead 2? Fantastic game, among the best of the generation, did someone as intellectually hefty as Peeved Pedro critique it on Youtube?
Stuart360
Member
You cant talk to you, you are in constant Alamo mode.
sobaka770
Banned
I mean I can accept people not liking the execution if they played through the whole game and could argue their topics straight. I fully admit that some parts may drag, some scenes could be longer etc. However we can say that about 99.5% of games, unless it's a 6hour CoD campaign.
Based on the video you linked, I would say again that a lot of these "reviewers" have hard time accepting that in a character-driven story, characters, at a minimum need to go through a transformation and have an arc. Joel's arc, unlike Ellie's, was very much done in the first game. He was not such a complicated muilti-layered character to begin with (usually people like simple characters or comic reliefs more btw, cause they are simple and funny even though they have very limited depth), he had one major arc: emotional trauma from losing his daughter. By the end of TLOU he reconnected with other important people in his life, found surrogate daughter to love and accepted his sins. His development is complete. I do not see how in that video you linked the reviewer points to him being an "important character" after that point.
Keeping him and giving him a second arc after the whole emotional bonding issue that he had for half of his life has been resolved would be bad writing. 99% of time it leads to bad fanfiction cause there's nothing for character really to do apart from being a mentor, so they are just there to please the fans. Or you'd have to break him again as late Luke Skywalker and see how people hated that.
I know most people like to see more of the same shlock: Luke Skywalker going on crazy adventures, more Darth Vader killing people (Rogue One!), more Jack Sparrow, more Iron Man. But the truth of basic good storytelling is that every major character should have some form of an arc to go through and at some point you just run out of those based on the depth of character: Luke and Darth Vader don't need more context cause their arc was complete in 3 movies, Jack Sparrow (loveable one-note comic relief!) was done in the first Pirates of Caribbean, look how much worse other Pirates movies fared because they simply milked the characters whose story was done in round 1!
I don't expect people to immediately accept Joel's demise, in fact, that's the point of that scene to elicit hatred. But if after 30 hours, different perspectives, world and character building, you're still pissed at that one thing and can't see the other perspective and then call it "bad writing" cause people loved Joel (?) then yeah, you pretty much completed the game but got a fail ending for empathy and relativity. In fact the game pretty much calls out all these people.
Paracelsus
Member
That was more an issue with gameplay, "this doesn't play like a 10/10 game", like God of War.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I've seen some of those, they feel like if you critiqued an RPG for lacking platforming.
SleepDoctor
Banned
I forgot you can't criticize anything Sony related. Since you're too triggered to do anything than offer petty insults, reported
.
Ass of Can Whooping
Banned
Now it all makes sense
Niels intent all along was to call out us bigots by giving us a character that only the reee demographic would like
Well played golfman abby
sobaka770
Banned
Now it all makes sense
Niels intent all along was to call out us bigots by giving us a character that only the reee demographic would like
Well played golfman abby
So... you're saying that only "Reee" dempgraphic would like a character who saw her father killed by a murderer, her whole organisation and major life goal to cure the disease potentially saving millions of lives collapsed because of his actions? Character who lost everything and has to rebuild from scratch and harbors an emotional trauma with a need for revenge that she satisfies in the most brutal way only to find no solace, people shunning her, not able to sleep, screwing up the relationships she has, going on soldier missions with quiet determinance not even believeing in the cause? Character who has done bad, unforgivable things in her past but sees atonement and purpose by taking care of a child who may cure her emotional issues and reminds her of better sides of her character (wait... Joel?)
Yeah, if only REE dempgraphic can get it, I worry about the demographic in general.
Halo is Back
Member
Joel dying is the least of the games problems
HawarMiran
Banned
let me guess it is the "PaCiNg" and "BaD wRiTiNg"
GymWolf
Member
You talk like the first game was not the most useless journey ever...
You know after 30 min from the beginning of the game that joel is gonna love ellie as a substitite daughter so all of their angry banthers are hilarious at best because YOU ALREADY KNOW that he is not gonna leave her and that by the end of the game he is gonna see her as a substitute daughter, the stakes during angry discussions in that game are lower than low if you have any experience with this type of stories.
And the trip to get the cure? Totally useless because you know thet joel is not gonna sacrifice her.
And even the supposedly poignant finale? Joel find documents where it's clear that fireflies don't know what they are doing and the chance of getting a cure is smaller than abby's breast (they try to retcon this in the sequel but it doesn't work for people with good memory), but joel is an idiot and he doesn't even explain this to ellie just to create artificial tension...let's see if ellie is so eager to sacrifice herself after reading some fireflies documents about the chances of getting a cure...
So what exactly is more significant in the first game compared to the second one? A useless trip to get a cure? The useless banther with zero stakes because you know that joel is never gonna leave her?
Both games are pretty meaningless journeys and people act like the first one had this incredible story and meaningfull journey, when there is none of that.
What is the meaning of the first game?
The cure? No
The most predictable bonding ever between a girl without family and a guy who lost his daughter forced to stay together during a journey? No if you haven't lived in a cave in the last 20 years.
The finale where ellie is mad that joel take it from her the 1% chance of creating a cure?? Lol
At least in the sequel you save an innocent child (lev) from a very bleak future, it's already more than what you accomplish in the first one.
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sonomamashine
Member
Don't throw insults at people if they don't feel the same as you.
Soulblighter31
Banned
Not that abby didnt kill ellie. These are not real persons, they dont exist. He says the developers made it at such. Its really not that difficult to see. Dual protagonists, both women. One lesbian. One buffed that she looks like a man (strong, independent woman that can do as much a man trope), trannies in the game which they said they even consulted someone. They took every single thing that was trending when they started development and put it in the game.
As Jonathan Cooper said recently, ND designes games to score high. They chose nuances that apeal to the culture at that given time and focus test the living shit out of the same formula they use for 15 years almost. What that means is they found the narative and cinematic aspects make a lot of folks ignore the actual game playing aspect to a certain degree. Then they form a test group made up of varieties of individuals that they feel represents their audience. Then every time they complete a segment they run it through the focus group, observe their reactions, then go back and redo it if they have to.
Its a game very clinically made for the purpose of getting high scores. Sounds weird, but it is what it is.
You put together most of the gaming press which grades ND games how they think the audience expects them to. How they "should", not necesarily how they actually think, because you have the tribal hordes of sony worshipers after you and maybe sony reaches out to you about your review which doesnt allign with the "consensus". Maybe you wont get invited to that 5 day trip, all expenses paid, parties, work in progress access and socialising with the industry peeps in the future. So maybe you feel compeled to write the "correct" type of review
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HawarMiran
Banned
FREEEEE SPEECH
. Btw I bet that is a compliment for him. So shush it. Thanks
nowhat
Member
Ehh, Joe is amusing at times, but I feel his critique misses the mark this time around. I'm not saying the story is without issues, I said as much in my "impression" in the OT, but it's not those Joe lists here IMHO.
Here's an analysis that I pretty much entirely agree with WRT the story and what doesn't work in it (and full of SPOILERS obviously):
(yeah, the title of the video is a bit clickbaitey)
Here's an analysis that I pretty much entirely agree with WRT the story and what doesn't work in it (and full of SPOILERS obviously):
(yeah, the title of the video is a bit clickbaitey)
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Don't usually watch Joe at all, thought I'd give this one a go to see if he shares my feelings. Couldn't make it more than 20 minutes, it's all skits and screaming and reaction footage.
I still don't buy the argument that the game's bad because of the direction they choose to take the plot. Did anyone that saw the very first trailer actually think Joel wasn't gonna die..? They've spelled it out plain as day the entire time. And you can quite easily make the character change work too, I just don't believe the story is bad because of where Druckman tried to take it or his apparent political agenda. He wrote the first game too remember, it's his baby and he's entitled to do what he wants with it. We weren't "owed" the game people expected.
The problem is that somewhere in the last few years, Neil has forgotten how to achieve this, and what he tries to do is so badly executed. High school level emotional manipulation/exploitation. The most by-the-numbers morally grey "gee isn't bloodlust bad" "who are the real monsters" narrative beats. Paper thin characters with often illogical motivation that changes at the drop of a hat, very few of whom are even remotely likeable for one reason or another, and most of whom are essentially cannon fodder with the sole purpose of racking up a body count for dramatic effect. An incredibly disjointed narrative that does its best to completely dissolve the long-running tension it had previously attempted to establish. It has the same issue as Haneke's Funny Games in that it absolutely revels in what it condemns and constantly winks at the participant asking them if they feel bad yet. Nobody should.
The Last of Us' original story was only great for a game. Compared to books, film or shit, even a lot of TV, it was quite predictable and middle-of-the-road. Part Two's plot can't even manage middle-of-the-road. You're free to enjoy it much more than others did, but if your entire argument boils down to "you just didn't get it, you're not mature enough to understand", stop shitting your diaper. There's nothing here to "get". I've stepped in puddles deeper than this. This applies equally to those whose entire argument boils down to "muscle woman bad, gays bad". There was potential here and it was squandered.
I still don't buy the argument that the game's bad because of the direction they choose to take the plot. Did anyone that saw the very first trailer actually think Joel wasn't gonna die..? They've spelled it out plain as day the entire time. And you can quite easily make the character change work too, I just don't believe the story is bad because of where Druckman tried to take it or his apparent political agenda. He wrote the first game too remember, it's his baby and he's entitled to do what he wants with it. We weren't "owed" the game people expected.
The problem is that somewhere in the last few years, Neil has forgotten how to achieve this, and what he tries to do is so badly executed. High school level emotional manipulation/exploitation. The most by-the-numbers morally grey "gee isn't bloodlust bad" "who are the real monsters" narrative beats. Paper thin characters with often illogical motivation that changes at the drop of a hat, very few of whom are even remotely likeable for one reason or another, and most of whom are essentially cannon fodder with the sole purpose of racking up a body count for dramatic effect. An incredibly disjointed narrative that does its best to completely dissolve the long-running tension it had previously attempted to establish. It has the same issue as Haneke's Funny Games in that it absolutely revels in what it condemns and constantly winks at the participant asking them if they feel bad yet. Nobody should.
The Last of Us' original story was only great for a game. Compared to books, film or shit, even a lot of TV, it was quite predictable and middle-of-the-road. Part Two's plot can't even manage middle-of-the-road. You're free to enjoy it much more than others did, but if your entire argument boils down to "you just didn't get it, you're not mature enough to understand", stop shitting your diaper. There's nothing here to "get". I've stepped in puddles deeper than this. This applies equally to those whose entire argument boils down to "muscle woman bad, gays bad". There was potential here and it was squandered.
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Cato
Banned
Show me on the doll where bad Joe touched you?
He did not like the game. Lots of people did not.
You are so fragile that someone else did not like your favv game you spaz out?
Do you participate in normal society outside your basement? How does that go?
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Darius87
Member
my mini review i played on moderate difficulty
visuals - 10(pretty amazing no explaining here)
sound/ost = 8(ost is good though many tracks just with guitar, sound is great)
gameplay = 8(pretty standart)
story = 6(not gonna spoil it but we know why)
value = 8(game is longer then i expected).
giving an 8.0/10 good game with amazing visuals and with 1 critical flaw.
still gonna do platinum. is there trophy for harder difficulty?
visuals - 10(pretty amazing no explaining here)
sound/ost = 8(ost is good though many tracks just with guitar, sound is great)
gameplay = 8(pretty standart)
story = 6(not gonna spoil it but we know why)
value = 8(game is longer then i expected).
giving an 8.0/10 good game with amazing visuals and with 1 critical flaw.
still gonna do platinum. is there trophy for harder difficulty?
SleepDoctor
Banned
Just report and move on. Look at his posts in this thread. He's offering nothing but insults and antagonizing anyone with differing opinions.
OT: As soon I saw Ellie was taking the lead, my hype began to deflate. Spoilers just confirmed how bad the writing was. I'll probably play through it when its released with Factions. If so just for the gameplay, cuz obviously the rest is a mess.
GymWolf
Member
The fact that this event are more organic doesn't mean that the writer is not trying to manipulate you, some of these moments are very cheap and on the nose, like dina's big nose level...
Halo is Back
Member
Dude that is not what I said at all. The heart of the first game is in the relationship of Joel and Ellie. Joel finally finds something to live for in Ellie and commits murder to save her so she can have a future with her and he can finally make up for his own daughters death. Joel did what he did to give Ellie a meaningful life, not a meaningful death. Ellie throws all of that away for petty revenge and is only allowed to live because Abby said so TWICE. Yet Ellie still throws all of that away (a life with Dina on the farm) for more petty revenge even after she was spared TWICE. Ending The cycle of revenge and the meaningful act of forgiveness could have been satisfied at the end when she could have told Tommy no when he said he found Abby at the farm.
But no, Ellie throws all of that away even though she has already learned (or started) to forgive him before his death. Do you expect any human being let alone Ellie to throw everything away while threatening a CHILD with a knife to his throat to all o the sudden flip again at the last second "because now she forgives her"?
Even after learning to forgive Abby and spares her life ,she still loses everything in one of the most empty endings I have even seen. What was the point of making a third confrontation only to have the exact same outcome?
GymWolf
Member
You said "what is the point of everything" and that is exactly how i feel about the first game, the most useless journey with the most predictable bonding and the most predictable finale, no stakes whatsoever during discussions and a finale that is more dramatic than he needs to be just because the main character is a dumbass who doesn't speak about the chance of a cure being extremely small.
I was not even talking about you specifically but to the people who thought that the first game was more meaningfull compared to the second game when it's really not.
Maybe i have a more grounded way of seeing things but for me the first game story was an exercise in futility, far more than the second one.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Because for Ellie by that point its about not living in fear as much as anything. She "beats" Aby, as in has her at her mercy at the point of death, she finally is taking control back.
Which if you think about it is exactly the same issue that caused her falling out with Joel.
At which point suddenly the awful cost of this whole sequence of events comes rushing in, and showing mercy is the only way to salvage anything from this long nightmare.
sonomamashine
Member
Free speech requires respect for others, you are insulting people so you can feel better since you're hurting.FREEEEE SPEECH
Live & learn i guess, you'll discover that the world doesn't evolve around you, people don't have to agree to everything you say/like.
GymWolf
Member
Skill up...
the guy gush a lot about the game even if he disliked 4 big part of the gameplay like stealth, melee, hacking and investigation mode, seeing how much excited he was while disliking almost everything about the actual gameplay was a very strange experience, not dissimilar to reviewer who talk shit about a game but then they still gave a 10\10 because reasons.
I usually don't listen to yt people but he really lost me as a viewer with that fucking preview of cyberpunk...
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Ellie wasn't going to move on and forgive Abby after a mere 3 days. Ellie begins to slowly understand why Abby killed Joel and starts to question her decisions. She gets beat up and moves to a farm with Dina.
While living on the farm, she's unable to move on so she needed closure.
Halo is Back
Member
Now you are getting it. The pacing ruins the game for me and the emotional impact. They try way too hard to make you like Abby when all they had to do was show you WHY she killed Joel and some backstory with her family. By the time I got to the Lev arch I was so disinterested in the character and rather go back to the theater confrontation. That was the emotional climax of Ellie's revenge for Joel yet it is sidelined to give us a full character story (and other characters) It grinds the pacing to a halt when it keeps going on and on. Finally, when Ellie gets her face beaten in and STILL spares Ellie, Ellie still needs to drop everything with Dina months later and travels across the US to still not kill her in the end. I could at least respect the ending if Ellie killed Abby in the end as it would show her that the petty revenge cost her everything including her humanity. But no, she learns to forgive somehow at the last minute only to still be punished in the end. What is the point of that? What am I supped to learn from that even though you did the good thing in the end, your life still sucks. The ending feels so empty. At the very end we see that Ellie is in the process of forgiving Joel for what he did, but we are supposed to believe she can forgive Abby minutes later after threatening to kill a child for revenge? "You made him apart of this" . Someone who says that is already morally gone.
Azurro
Banned
He's a great reviewer in terms of getting the opinion of an every day guy, he won't talk about how some plot point elevates the human condition but he will still talk at length at what he enjoys and didn't enjoy from a game in terms of story, gameplay, graphics, etc, and his skits are really entertaining sometimes.
I don't see why you dismiss his opinion, he even gave the first game a 10/10, which is a rating I agree with. He has the benefit of not having to be in the good graces of publishers, so you can at least believe his take to be more honest.
Halo is Back
Member
I get that. Believe me, I have had that same type of trauma in real life having flash backs of abuse but I never would have given up everything just to get back at her. If she really forgave Joel then she would know that her life on the farm is what Joel would have wanted for her. Tommy was the one in the beginning of the game telling Ellie to not go for revenge yet I am supposed to believe later on he tries to guilt trip her into it when she seems clearly conflicted about it when he mentions Abby? Tommy was the POS who tied to get her back into it.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Yeah, not the mention incosistent, since he praised Alpha Protocol abou many things and then so he would not deviate from mainstream, he gave it 4/10...
I don't care as much
Geki-D
Banned
Imagine thinking professional gaming sites are more beholden to game publishers for early review copies than Youtubers are on pandering to their audiences who finance them to such a point their entire existence both online & offline is based on Patreon & views.
This whole idea that Youtubers are just inherently more honest is utterly ridiculous.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Wasn't it pretty much accepted Joel was gonna die though?
Most of the negativity comes from how poorly handled it was.
Fuz
Banned
I respect his integrity. Quite a lot, actually.
I don't respect his tastes.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
People were mad because you had to play as Joel's killer. They thought Joel would die later in the game. People accused ND of wanting to get rid of white men because a woman\trans character kill Joel and it was the result of identity politics. This is why they were calling the game woke.
There was also a fake plot leak going around that Abby would kill Ellie at the end of the game.
Moriah20
Member
What I disagree on with Joe is Joel's death - I think that was fine. I think if ND actually wanted to subvert expectations there, then Joel would've lived - I swear everyone called him dying the moment the game was announced. It's a natural conclusion to his character arc. He was already very lucky to make it to the age he did, given the shit he pulled, in that kind of world. But it's pretty much everything afterwards that I had the issues with. I didn't really enjoy any of the new side characters, there were far too many conveniences in the story to drive it forward and the incredibly on the nose attempts at making Abby likable. Abby's part of the game didn't feel natural at all, the writers drew way too many similiarities between her and Ellie, making her feel more like a fictional creation rather than a real person. What I liked about TLOU 1 is how understated and "real" it felt, despite the setting. TLOU 2 on the other hand, you have a pregnant woman on either side, both main characters lost a father figure, Abby and Lev speedrun a bond very very similiar to Joel and Ellie's from TLOU 1 in the matter of 2 days (it took Joel and Ellie several months).... shit, even the fucking dog - you killed this one specific dog in a brutal manner in a QTE as Ellie, then 30 mins later you learn that this dog belonged to Abby's crew and she was super cute and everything. Like yeah come on. I get it. Why does it need to be so hammered in? To me, all this actually achieved the opposite of the intended effect.
I actually ended up liking TLOU 2 more than I thought I would based on the leaks, but I always figured the greatest challenge of this narrative would be to make the player empathic towards Abby, and for me and I think several others it just didn't really work. i didn't really care wether she lived or died in the end, personally, because I just didn't care about her all that much in the first place.
I actually ended up liking TLOU 2 more than I thought I would based on the leaks, but I always figured the greatest challenge of this narrative would be to make the player empathic towards Abby, and for me and I think several others it just didn't really work. i didn't really care wether she lived or died in the end, personally, because I just didn't care about her all that much in the first place.
D