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Another huge EVE online battle between the 2 largest coalitions

Valnen

Member
I find the combat in EVE to be great in small scale settings. 5-10 man gangs have a lot of dynamics that offer interesting tactics to implement.

I'm just now scratching the surface of solo combat, which has its own pace.

I just find it to be extremely boring. There's like, no feedback at all. I'm too spoiled by modern games with loads of combat feedback too enjoy the game sadly.
 
I just find it to be extremely boring. There's like, no feedback at all.

Not sure what you mean by that exactly. I do understand that EVE breeds a certain risk aversion that needs to be overcome, though. I've never had a more exciting PVP experience in gaming.
 

Valnen

Member
Not sure what you mean by that exactly. I do understand that EVE breeds a certain risk aversion that needs to be overcome, though. I've never had a more exciting PVP experience in gaming.

I mean there's practically no audio/visual feedback, which is part of what makes combat fun in a video game. I need more than spreadsheets in space to enjoy a game.
 

Armaros

Member
Basically, you take a already slow game (1sec ticks).
That allowed roughly 500-player battles with manageable lag.
Then you slow receive\sends to 10%, that is, 10sec ticks.
That allowed roughly 2000-player battles with manageable lag.
Then the players threw 4000 players on the same grid.
That means that every single of the 4000 needs to know the position of the other 3999 - more players, outside certain controlled istances (that can't be abused with that type of game), the server load is exponential.
And you can't chain more servers, because that'd just mean you'd need the same amount of data going through the two servers you're using.

One of the fundamental laws of EVE is 'Whenever CCP "Fixes" lag, players will unfix it by throwing more bodies at it'.

And CCP are constantly upgrading their servers to keep up with their players, but its never enough. They already have one of the largest and most advanced server farms running EvE atm.
 

KKRT00

Member
I just find it to be extremely boring. There's like, no feedback at all. I'm too spoiled by modern games with loads of combat feedback too enjoy the game sadly.

There is tons of feedback in EVE combat, so dont know what You mean.

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I mean there's practically no audio/visual feedback, which is part of what makes combat fun in a video game. I need more than spreadsheets in space to enjoy a game.

Not true at all. Have You even played PVP in this game? Especially in faster T2 ships?
 
I mean there's practically no audio/visual feedback, which is part of what makes combat fun in a video game. I need more than spreadsheets in space to enjoy a game.

I thought you were speaking in a more figurative gameplay sense in terms of feedback. Now I'm even more stumped since the graphics are pretty great, in my opinion. Admittedly projectile weapons don't have much in the way graphics outside of muzzle flashes, but other than that weapon effects are pretty visible.
 

pulsemyne

Member
And CCP are constantly upgrading their servers to keep up with their players, but its never enough. They already have one of the largest and most advanced server farms running EvE atm.

The problem is that they only run the game on a single thread. It needs to be recoded to run on multiple threads otherwise nothing is going to change.
 

Armaros

Member
The problem is that they only run the game on a single thread. It needs to be recoded to run on multiple threads otherwise nothing is going to change.

That would require them to literally rewrite the entire game from the bottom up. Eve is ancient, multi-threading was barely experimental when Eve first showed up.
 
The problem is that they only run the game on a single thread. It needs to be recoded to run on multiple threads otherwise nothing is going to change.
This is completely incorrect. CCP has done multiple dev blogs over the years explaining how the backend architecture works, you should do a bit of Googling and read up on some of the more recent articles. It's actually pretty amazing how battles like this can occur nowdays and not completely cornhole the game for others milling about or fighting in other not-so-huge battles.
 
An actual capture of the battle itself:

 
In my schooldays such a game would have destroyed me, it's all i have ever dreamed of (except for the real money involved thing).
Now i don't dare touching it!
 
That would require them to literally rewrite the entire game from the bottom up. Eve is ancient, multi-threading was barely experimental when Eve first showed up.

Veritas was talking about the progress of some of the optimization projects during his AMA on the PLEX for Good stream. Brain-in-a-box is coming along nicely according to him and should help quite a bit. Basically anytime a ship is changed the system needs to recalculate everything for the pilot. A ship change will happen anytime a ship is destroyed (going to a pod), so large battles should see a nice bump.
 
Time dilation? How does that work? Can you explain? The battles aren't real-time?

It works like bullet time in Max Payne. Everything slows down by a % factor dependent on the number of players fighting. Assuming something like 2500 people fighting would create something like 50% TiDi. This would mean all actions would run at 50% speed.

Let's say your gun fires one cycle in 2.5 seconds. In this system your gun would fire in a 5 second cycle.

Certain things still run in real time like chat and timers.
 

Valnen

Member
I thought you were speaking in a more figurative gameplay sense in terms of feedback. Now I'm even more stumped since the graphics are pretty great, in my opinion. Admittedly projectile weapons don't have much in the way graphics outside of muzzle flashes, but other than that weapon effects are pretty visible.

I'm speaking of both. The way it's all designed just isn't very much fun. You don't manually aim your ship's weapons, it's all automatic and not very punchy at all. There's no "impact" to the combat. I also never really feel like a pilot in the game because I'm moving my ship just by clicking around on stuff. I'm not really flying.

And visual stuff is subjective but I just feel like the animations aren't flashy enough.
 

bootski

Member

the link and the insinuation being made here is from a single episode that took place seven years ago. eve is an amazingly fun game to play, definitely the most indepth mmo i've ever experienced. however, it's strength is also it's greatest fault; the time that you need to spend on this game to reach the status of some of the things generally shown in EVE would leave little for anything else in your life.
 

pulsemyne

Member
And another bites the dust. 10 titans to 4. Well over 1.5 trillion isk has gone up in flame. This is now likely to be the most expensive single loss in MMO history.
 
Not sure what you mean by that exactly. I do understand that EVE breeds a certain risk aversion that needs to be overcome, though. I've never had a more exciting PVP experience in gaming.

I think he dislikes how the combat is mostly automated and he would prefer if it was something more like War Thunder.
 

sueil

Member
11 N3/PL Titans dead and 4 for the CFC. Easily the bloodiest battle in EVE history and it won't be over til the Node is dead or Downtime in 13 hours. I am trying to log back into my dread and keep shooting fools after my game crashed.
 

Tacitus_

Member
Holy shit! On one of those streams the mentioned that one side had lost 14 of those things and the other side 5. That's about 57,000 dollar on 19 ships alone.

It's not like they cost dollars to make. That's the cost translated to real money from the in-game economy.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Boggles my mind. And also sounds completely stupid ... and wasteful.
Well, what else are you supposed to do with 'em? Ships are made to go pew pew pew.

It's not like they cost dollars to make. That's the cost translated to real money from the in-game economy.
Isn't that nearly the same thing? The money and effort they put into acquiring these things - they could have just cashed out instead.
 
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