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[Miles Quaritch]

Agreed.
Being able to admit being wrong is admirable. Sucks that the kids got rotavirus, but at least they're more safe now.

What's admirable about ignoring decades of science/data and only changing your mind when you're personally affected?

She wilfully ignored data and thought she knew better after scouring the internet for information (how the fuck did she reach the conclusion they were dangerous?). Fuck her for endangering her children.

 

[djplaeskool]

Live and learn.

HANGIN' ON THE EDGE OF TOMORROW INFECTION

 

[Jasup]

The fact that it took her kids getting sick makes it much less admirable to me, if at all.

I don't believe in rigid "one strike and you're out" -philosophy.

 

[Ferrio]

What's admirable about ignoring decades of science/data and only changing your mind when you're personally affected?

I have to agree with them. The woman was stupid to ignore the facts, but it's already hard enough to get people to change their views for the better without also putting on a layer of shame they must go through once they do change. Most people like this would just dig their heels in deeper.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

At least she had the guts to admit she was wrong.

Other anti-vaxxers blame other things if their children get sick. AND STILL DON'T VACCINATE THEM.

Keep in mind we've literally had cases of anti-vaxxers deliberately getting their children sick.

See: pox parties

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I have to agree with them. The woman was stupid to ignore the facts, but it's already hard enough to get people to change their views for the better without also putting on a layer of shame they must go through once they do change. Most people like this would just dig their heels in deeper.

You're not wrong, but I feel when you hold hold views that endanger others who are in your care and rely on you to take care of them, a layer of shame should be expected and is almost a rite of passage so you never make such an idiotic mistake again.

 

[Lmo911]

Keep in mind we've literally had cases of anti-vaxxers deliberately getting their children sick.

See: pox parties

Ya know instead of directly getting their children sick, it would be really neat if we could like expose them to a weaker version of the disease and then they could build an immunity to it without having to go through the entire process of being ill. Someone should get on that.

 

[Ferrio]

You're not wrong, but I feel when you hold hold views that endanger others who are in your care and rely on you to take care of them, a layer of shame should be expected and is almost a rite of passage so you never make such an idiotic mistake again.

So hazing? Ya screw that, I'd like to think we're a bit more mature than that.

 

[Captain Chaos]

So ridiculous people go against the overwhelming evidence provided by a health service thats spent millions of man hours getting to the status quo on whats the best course of action to protect the human race from illness and disease. And why - cause they read some conspiracy bullshit spewed by crackpots on the internet.

Get a grip, dont think you know better, follow professional advice.

 

[FStop7]

Props to the lady for admitting her mistake and for publicly standing up and speaking out. But the "me me me" attitude still kind of sucks. How many other families did hers infect or put at risk during their journey to enlightenment?

 

[Keri]

My son just got his first round of vaccinations a couple weeks ago. At the appointment, before the vaccinations were given, I mentioned to the Doctor that I'd read some children have bad reactions to the vaccinations. She almost immediately launched into an explanation about how vaccinations are important and it's better to have them, before she realized that I brought it up, just to ask: "Yeah, just tell me what to do if he happens to be one of those children? Children's Tylenol?"

I realized afterwards, that she thought I was questioning whether to give him vaccinations (instead of just asking how to handle if he's one of the rare kids that gets a really high fever afterwards). It was never a question that he was getting them. It made me super mad when I thought about it too, because I realized that we live in a super ~hippy~ area and she probably comes in contact with anti-vaxers all the time. UGH. Those parents and children put everyone at risk.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So hazing? Ya screw that, I'd like to think we're a bit more mature than that.

Not so much hazing, but we shouldn't just forget that this person put others in danger and chose to ignore hard data because of a 'gut feeling'.

I'm not of the mind that people should just be forgiven for their stupidity, especially when it endangers others. Shame can be an important part of the learning process.

 

[iPaul93]

If you guys want to go down the wormhole:

https://www.facebook.com/vaccinetruth

This is just depressing.How can people believe this shit?

 

[Ferrio]

Not so much hazing, but we shouldn't just forget that this person put others in danger and chose to ignore hard data because of a 'gut feeling'.

I'm not of the mind that people should just be forgiven for their stupidity, especially when it endangers others. Shame can be an important part of the learning process.

But they've already learned. What are you trying to accomplish at that point? Just to feel morally superior?

 

[SolKane]

Why is she teaching if she's not able to think critically herself?

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Not so much hazing, but we shouldn't just forget that this person put others in danger and chose to ignore hard data because of a 'gut feeling'.

I think people in this thread are equating "she admitted her mistake and is now working on correcting it" to "this absolves her of all guilt".

Guys. I know this is a shitty situation that never should have happened in the first place. But let's not use it to prove how we've got more morals than the random internet person above us.

 

[SURGEdude]

The fact that it took her kids getting sick makes it much less admirable to me, if at all.

Maybe admirable is the wrong word. But in a world where people get proven wrong and double down it's at least worth noting.

Especially in the context of what feels more and more like a cult with all of the barriers that places on the indoctrinated who question the dogma.

 

[BobTheFork]

IF she didn't have more time, why not split her research evenly anyways? That's what gets me, that she only checked one side and said 'that's all I needed to hear!'

 

[Miles Quaritch]

But they've already learned. What are you trying to accomplish at that point? Just to feel morally superior?

After potentially endangering others.

The point is to make sure they understand how stupid and ignorant they were to ignore the data and think they knew better, to understand how irresponsible they were and how dangerous their decision to not immunise was.

 

[Rentahamster]

IF she didn't have more time, why not split her research evenly anyways? That's what gets me, that she only checked one side and said 'that's all I needed to hear!'

Confirmation bias is a powerful phenomenon.

 

[HTupolev]

I kinda see that as child abuse.

What's especially insane about it being difficult to enforce is that you're hurting other people's children as well, even those who have been vaccinated.

Vaccines don't provide 100% immunity; oftentimes the realistic target is to merely achieve good enough immunity across a population that cases won't tend to propagate into outbreaks. This situation where not all individuals are immune, but enough are immune to prevent outbreaks, is called "herd immunity."

Measles is insanely contagious: for herd immunity, we need 90-95% of the population to be immune.
Now, here's the problem: the MMR vaccine only achieves about 93% chance of immunity after one round, and 97% after two rounds. As such, MMR is on the very edge of being sufficient: it only takes a few non-MMR'd people to bring the immunity rate low enough to break herd immunity and allow outbreaks to occur.
When outbreaks have occurred recently, a large fraction of those affected are people who have been vaccinated, sometimes around half.

Anti-vaxxers aren't just putting their own families at risk, or even themselves and other anti-vaxxers. The movement is a threat to public health.

 

[Tedesco!]

My first child ended up being hospitalized after his first round of vaccinations. The doctors advised that we actually hold off for a few years before trying again. We moved shortly after he was born and to this day our current doctor dismisses our original doctor's diagnosis and never fails to give us shit about it.

 

[Wag]

Oops!

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

The point is to make sure they understand how stupid and ignorant they were to ignore the data and think they knew better, to understand how irresponsible they were and how dangerous their decision to not immunise was.

Okay.

So to feel morally superior.

Gotcha.

The fact that she's turned around means she knows all this shit.

 

[Karsticles]

There are when you don't know any better.

She's admitting her mistake and getting shit on for it.

I agree with you. I would prefer it if the thread's tone were "Good on her for fixing the mistake" instead of "lol she was so dumb".

 

[Messofanego]

is she the lady in this gif?

This was definitely her during her research.

 

[Rentahamster]

I agree with you. I would prefer it if the thread's tone were "Good on her for fixing the mistake" instead of "lol she was so dumb".

That's the tone I was trying to set with the OP. She didn't have to open herself to public ridicule by being on the news, but she said that she wanted to spread awareness, which is a good thing.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

It's was the shits that did it? She couldn't handle diarrhea and tapped out? Wtf?

There's some brutal stuff with polio and measles and she got shook over the runs.

I've theorized that anti vaxxers wouldn't be able to reconcile their actions with the full effects of terrible diseases. Like, let them walk their grown ass kid whose back is a curly Q, then talk to me about vaccines.

 

[CharminUltra]

Good on her for finally seeing the light. I know a couple of people who would've doubled down on their idiocy.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

I agree with you. I would prefer it if the thread's tone were "Good on her for fixing the mistake" instead of "lol she was so dumb".

But why good on her? She changed her mind only after her kids got sick.

I'm obviously very glad the kids recovered, but I'm not going to applaud the mom.

 

[Ferrio]

But why good on her? She changed her mind only after her kids got sick.

I'm obviously very glad the kids recovered, but I'm not going to applaud the mom.

If our end goal is to get people to vaccinate then she should be applauded. Unless that's not what you really care about.

 

[Zoe]

Keep in mind we've literally had cases of anti-vaxxers deliberately getting their children sick.

See: pox parties

I wouldn't necessarily blame pox parties on anti-vaxxers, more lack of education. My generation didn't have the chicken pox vaccine, and it was treated as a harmless (although itchy) disease that got you out of school and then you'd never have to deal with it again.

 

[Loudninja]

I agree with you. I would prefer it if the thread's tone were "Good on her for fixing the mistake" instead of "lol she was so dumb".

It never reach this point at all she does not get a pat on the back for this.

I mean its good she did change her mind but took her family getting sick.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I think people in this thread are equating "she admitted her mistake and is now working on correcting it" to "this absolves her of all guilt".

Guys. I know this is a shitty situation that never should have happened in the first place. But let's not use it to prove how we've got more morals than the random internet person above us.

It's not really about morals or feeling morally superior, it's about her ignorance and how that put others in danger. The fact that she's a teacher makes this all the more depressing and frustrating that she still chose to ignore the data because she thought she knew better.

This should be ignored because she realised she was wrong after the fact? After her children got sick and she potentially endangered others who could have died?

Yeah, sorry if I don't want to applaud or congratulate her for changing her mind at that stage. She didn't change her mind because of the data or because she realised she was wrong, she changed her mind out of fear and only got her kids vaccinated because they got sick. If they hadn't, do you think she would have changed her mind or do you think she'd be on the internet telling others that she hasn't vaccinated her kids and they are all fine?

 

[Rentahamster]

But why good on her? She changed her mind only after her kids got sick.

I'm obviously very glad the kids recovered, but I'm not going to applaud the mom.

She was wrong about her initial stance, but I think we can all agree that her efforts to try to spread awareness is a good thing, right?

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

If our end goal is to get people to vaccinate then she should be applauded. Unless that's not what you really care about.

I don't know what you're suggesting. She directly caused her children harm. I'm glad she changed her mind, but I'm not going to praise her for it.

 

[Messofanego]

Keep in mind we've literally had cases of anti-vaxxers deliberately getting their children sick.

See: pox parties

Hardcore vaccination!

It's like they don't even know vaccines are basically that, but a weakened enough version to not get you all the way sick.

 

[mrkgoo]

The problem is that many lay people don't understand the scientific process, and what it means to have scientific research vs quake theories.

"Science" is often considered some kind of faction or side, when it's nothing of the sort. It's like arguing "logic" and "reasoned thinking" as some kind of "side". Science is a way of deducing how things work and a process. It's not a belief system, or something to be "followed".

In this woman's (and many other people) thinking, she probably was considering her sides to be "for" and "against" vaccinations, which is fair, but the evidence and arguments on those were likely from vastly different sources.

So many quacks write books and information, and add credibility in very dubious ways. Anecdotal evidence, scientifically rigourless experiments, undermined by dodgy or even fake credentials.

 

[Alienfan]

A nurse at my friends work was ant-vax as well before her kids got sick. She should have lost her job for having beliefs like that

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

This should be ignored because she realised she was wrong after the fact?

Okay, once again: nobody is saying that.

But it is beyond clear by now that you just want to get into eFights.

 

[Llyranor]

See: pox parties

To be fair, some normal people did chickenpox parties for kids too before the vaccine was available, since the symptoms are worse when you get it at an older age.

 

[mrkgoo]

But why good on her? She changed her mind only after her kids got sick.

I'm obviously very glad the kids recovered, but I'm not going to applaud the mom.

TO be fair, it should be a positive thing when people learn from mistakes and come around.

I don't know about "applauding", but some people will not even see and let their children become sicker. Hell, we've all heard those stories where the children even die and the parents still don't come around for their remaining children.

 

[Shmuppers]

HANGIN' ON THE EDGE OF TOMORROW INFECTION

Fucking LOL.

What is the case for anti-vacc?

 

[Casimir]

I should show this to one of my co workers who every time I bring up the subject his face goes beet red and then he starts yelling out loud about how they are trying to kill us and that the holocaust never happened. I should also film his reaction and put it on youtube. Its quite the glimpse into insanty.

I would report him to HR instead.

 

[Messofanego]

I should show this to one of my co workers who every time I bring up the subject his face goes beet red and then he starts yelling out loud about how they are trying to kill us and that the holocaust never happened. I should also film his reaction and put it on youtube. Its quite the glimpse into insanty.

Sounds like an easy million views.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Okay, once again: nobody is saying that.

But it is beyond clear by now that you just want to get into eFights.

And shame is part of that process, which some people in this thread are against.

And no, I'm more concerned about applauding people like this. People who claim they scoured everything and still came to the conclusion that vaccines are bad. It's not bad enough they endanger others, they also lie about looking at the data objectively when all they've likely done is go on facebook, read a few anecdotes and stories from armchair experts and make their mind up that vaccines are bad.

 

[jay]

Once I personally understand and can reproduce all science, then I will accept it. I am still sorting out gravity.

 

[Izayoi]

Reading an awesome book right now "Deadly Choices: How the Anti-Vaccine Movement Threatens us All".

A must-read for anyone who has family or friends on the other side of the "debate." Knowledge is power.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

The fact that it took her kids getting sick makes it much less admirable to me, if at all.

It took her kids and herself and her husband getting sick.

 

[Tuck]

I kinda see that as child abuse.

It is child abuse.