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Anyone feel like Sega isn't doing enough with the Sonic Franchise?

Alebrije

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Nothing to do with finding a secure gameplay for Sonic. They are either incompetent or doesn't give a shit for Sonic other than make him being remembered out of something.

Sonic Mania wasn't a just sucess "because". Sonic Team never cared for trying to replicate what they did with older titles. They spend ages failing and failing again, trying to thrown whatever the crap on the series in the hopes it sticks. The results are a bunch of failed ideas and a fragmented fanbase.

Frankly I dunno why Sega keeps Sonic Team there. Its a big waste of money. They could do something similar to Sonic Mania or other so death IPs, by allowing more experienced devs/fans to trying making their games. They aways were very tame about fanmade projects, different from Nintendo.

Sonic Mania is the path, they should do the same as Nintendo did with Super Mario Worlds ...a Sonic with 2.5 D world with updated graphics.

3D they need to give the IP to new people , it has been a lot of tries ans only Sonic Adbventures gave some hope.

2.5D is the future of Sonic
 

Miles708

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Sonic Mania is the path, they should do the same as Nintendo did with Super Mario Worlds ...a Sonic with 2.5 D world with updated graphics.

3D they need to give the IP to new people , it has been a lot of tries ans only Sonic Adbventures gave some hope.

2.5D is the future of Sonic

They've already done it with Unleadshed (which is beautiful), Colors, Generations and Forces. It probably can't be expanded further, together with the Rush mechanic.

As others have said, true 3D Sonic already exists in Sonic Adventure, which must "only" be improved upon.
Sega should invest their best people on their mascot for once.
 
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, Colors, Generations and Forces. It probably can't be expanded further, together with the Rush mechanic.
Forces wasn't expanded, it was made to be idiot-proof. Literally anything was worse, while the only thing they actually needed to do was make Generations 2, maybe bring back some fan favorites like Chao Garden or give it competitive multiplayer (the boost titles are basically racing platformer games anyway) and polish it up to the max with creative level designs and cool/fun set pieces. Instead, they degraded the mechanics and made some of the most unimaginative and generic level designs in the whole franchise.
 
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Philfrag

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What if sonic had a son and the game involves reconnecting with him after a long absence. Maybe towards the end they learn something about each other and their relationship going forward is stronger because of it? What if sonic felt fun to play instead of controlling like complete shit?
 
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but it did not bring anything new to the table.
At this point and after trying out basically any idea in the book, that's definitely for the better. You can still be creative while sticking to a known formula. Mario Galaxy shows this exceptionally well. 3D-Mario games in general do this very well. They don't need to reinvent the wheel every time they make a new game.
 

NewChoppa

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They've already done it with Unleadshed (which is beautiful), Colors, Generations and Forces.

Forces was a massive regression. The level designers hadn’t worked on a Sonic game before, hence why every single stage was a straight line that lasted about 37 seconds.

Hell, Unleashed looks like a better game than Forces and it came out 9 years prior on less powerful hardware
 
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NewChoppa

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At this point and after trying out basically any idea in the book, that's definitely for the better. You can still be creative while sticking to a known formula. Mario Galaxy shows this exceptionally well. 3D-Mario games in general do this very well. They don't need to reinvent the wheel every time they make a new game.

This is the weird part. 3D Mario games tend to be praised for sticking to a known formula - 3D Sonic games are criticised for the same thing and people ask for something new (which is why Sonic has gone through about 7 identity crises)

If they just made Sonic Adventure 3 (with a good Chao Garden) they’d save themselves so much trouble, but Sonic Team seem to be allergic to the game itself. They probably know they don’t have the talent to do the name justice right now
 
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Aaron Webber is apparently the Brand Dude who is at SEGA Japan telling Sonic Team how Sonic should be for the Western Audience.

I honestly have little faith in him in helping Sonic Team improve the Brand since his SoA Team messed up the Phantasy Star Universe (and Online 2) Community so badly in the West and was an overall terrible Manager of the Blog.

The dude is my age and Tweets jokes about Sonic under the Sonic Twitter Account. It's self mocking that makes Sonic look much worse than he actually is.

The branding of Sonic is great, it's just the Execution is terrible and Ilzuka should have moved on from Sonic years ago as he has no idea on how to make a good Sonic game (Colours was an accident and an afterthought).
 
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This is the weird part. 3D Mario games tend to be praised for sticking to a known formula - 3D Sonic games are criticised for the same thing and people ask for something new (which is why Sonic has gone through about 7 identity crises)
I think it already started with Sonic Heroes and fanservice Shadow the Hedgehog. They are both based on Adventure's mechanics, yes, but also added unnecessary elements that may sounded good on paper but were poorly executed. They tried again with Sonic 06, but after that failed people were tired of the Adventure formula and the rest is history.
 
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cireza

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while the only thing they actually needed to do was make Generations 2
So a rehash of old levels in corridor/boost mode, and with bad platforming. Generations was nowhere near Unleashed in terms of level-design, and it did not offer any new environment for the series. It is the worst modern 3D Sonic game in my opinion, a game I simply never want to go back to. Colors, Lost World or Unleashed are much better games. And Forces is also much more fun, despite the short levels.

I trust Sonic Team anyway, they won't pick the easy way out "give people a copy of previous game" because they never did, and that's for the better. I can see a small team making Mania 2 though, it will be the same thing all over again, so pretty pointless, but people who want to play the same thing again and again will be happy. It's exactly like Streets of Rage 4, a good game, fun, but it adds nothing to the table compared to the old games. Feels a bit pointless. At least the soundtrack is awesome, and so was Sonic Mania's.
 
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And Forces is also much more fun, despite the short levels.
Forces simplified the mechanics a lot, almost to the point of an automated mobile runner, and has much much worse level designs both mechanically and visually. Furthermore, the whole point of Generations was to recreate old levels as it is an anniversary game, therefore it got a perfect reason to have rehash levels. There is literally nothing Forces does better than Generations. Forces is a parody of the boost formula and pretty much the definition of taking the easy way. Quite literally, as it is an easy and forgettable game.
Either way, you could swap Generations 2 with Colors 2, as the point wasn't to make another anniversary game, the point was to make another boost game with care and thought put into it.
"give people a copy of previous game" because they never did, and that's for the better
 
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cireza

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There is literally nothing Forces does better than Generations.
Introducing new environments ? It does this better than Generations. I am talking about a game being fun, you answer with level-design and shit. But how does it feel when playing it ? Forces is much more fun then Generations to me. Forces also has highly replayable levels, with a lot of routes.

Forces is a parody of the boost formula and pretty much the definition of taking the easy way.
There are also other stages you can play in Forces, and not only the "solo modern Sonic" ones.

Sonic Team does not care anyway, as their target audience are the kids and teens, not old geezers that believe they know everything about what is good and what is bad to sell a Sonic game. Forces had the avatar, and it was great fun. You can be sure that kids loved this feature.
 
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Fat Frog

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Aaron Webber is apparently the Brand Dude who is at SEGA Japan telling Sonic Team how Sonic should be for the Western Audience.

I honestly have little faith in him in helping Sonic Team improve the Brand since his SoA Team messed up the Phantasy Star Universe (and Online 2) Community so badly in the West and was an overall terrible Manager of the Blog.

The dude is my age and Tweets jokes about Sonic under the Sonic Twitter Account. It's self mocking that makes Sonic look much worse than he actually is.

The branding of Sonic is great, it's just the Execution is terrible and Ilzuka should have moved on from Sonic years ago as he has no idea on how to make a good Sonic game (Colours was an accident and an afterthought).
Yup, i don't trust Sonic Team (especially Takashi Iizuka) but Webber gives me a glimpse of hope for the new project.
He knows what we're waiting for even if i'm not sure he'll be able to start a revolution at Sega of Japan...

Daisuke Sato has shown interest in the franchise so Sega could give him a chance. (as a veteran who worked on Saturn games and the first super monkey ball, it could be exciting to see what he has in mind)
 
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Forces also has highly replayable levels, with a lot of routes.

Introducing new environments ?
Literally the first stage is a rehash of Green Hill. And again, Generations' whole point was to recreate old levels.
But how does it feel when playing it ?
Like a simplified Sonic Generations.
There are also other stages you can play in Forces, and not only the "solo modern Sonic" ones.
...that do play exactly like modern Sonic but without boost and gun. Oh wait, they also have drifts.. which they robbed from modern Sonic rooster of mechanics as well, forgot about that.
Sonic Team does not care anyway, as their target audience are the kids and teens,
Sonic Team themselves don't even know their target audience as it is split into a million different groups as a result of their "throw everything on a wall, let's see what sticks" type of design.
 
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BlackTron

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Was it a rumor o is it true that Nagoshi (head of a lot of things in Sega) doesn't particularly like sonic as a franchise? It would partly explain the constant b-tier treatment it gets.

Yes Sega should do much more, starting with assembling a team of outstanding level designers.
Again, incompetence, this would be like the CEO of Nintendo neglecting Mario because he "doesn't particularly like Mario". Because I'm sure Nintendo's shareholders would be more interested in knowing how much he cares for it than how much their customers do lol.

Sega of Japan's ego kept a condescending shadow over their American branch and, to this day, their American customers. SoA did great marketing with Genesis but SoJ kept throwing a monkey wrench into their best efforts to remain successful. They thought they knew the American market better than Americans did. Classic failure by hubris.
 
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They should give us more Sonic Mania style action.

Or maybe a fully digitized adventure, like mortal kombat, but for Sonic!
sonic the hedgehog GIF
 

Komatsu

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Sonic Forces sold well - actually most Sonic games sell decently, even those usually deemed "failures".

The thing with Sonic is that a lot of the people making noises online about the character are simply no longer part of the audience SEGA is targeting.

The franchise occupies a very narrow but profitable niche: it's one of the few multiplat series strictly "for kids", now that Rare's franchises (Banjo, etc.) , Crash Bandicoot, Rayman etc don't keep with the frantic pace of releases.
 
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So... it doesn't play like modern Sonic at all :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Yes it does. Same mechanics. This isn't like in Adventure, were you had different gameplay styles with different controls. The custom character is literally playing like modern Sonic, just without the boost and a gun added. The drift mechanic was taken from Sonic's rooster, which means to give the custom character any purpose they needed to gimp Sonic's moveset. There isn't much difference at all. Not to mention the editor is very limited and build around putting cosmetics on a preset character. Doesn't change the gameplay, but it shows that this feature is poorly done. Did you even play the game?

They know perfectly well, don't worry. But you seem to be an expert, maybe you should try selling some consulting services to them.
The fact that Mania did better commercially and critically is a testament to this. Maybe you should have higher standards for a Sonic game, instead of throwing shade at a lifelong fan for criticisising a franchise he genuenly enjoys. You don't need to be an expert to realise whats is wrong with this franchise. It's on the wall. Literially.
Pretty much any game in the series finds its fans. There are even people that like Sonic 06 or Sonic Boom. They aren't wrong for liking those games, but they aren't well made quality products at all and it doesn't take rocket science to realise this. I certainly played enough of the boost games to see why Forces is much worse then previous games in terms of ambition, design and mechanics. It is a shallow and gimped experience and just one step before being one of those autorunner games on mobile. I am definitely not the only one realizing this.
 
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it's one of the few multiplat series strictly "for kids", now that Rare's franchises (Banjo, etc.) , Crash Bandicoot, Rayman etc don't keep with the frantic pace of releases.
"for kids" should never be an excuse for making a low quality effort. Mario, Rayman, Crash. They are all primarily targeted at kids, but that doesn't stop them from being good games. Even Sonic 06 did over a million in sales. It definitely shouldn't be considered a blue print for the series.
 

cireza

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The fact that Mania did better commercially and critically is a testament to this.
You actually have no source for this, and you are mixing everything up. The fact that recent games are not to your taste doesn't mean they are poor quality. And since we don't have precise sales numbers about both games, you certainly can't use the "sales" argument in favor of Mania.
 
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You actually have no source for this, and you are mixing everything up.
There aren't any hard numbers, but if you go by leaked numbers and the fact Mania had a much better word of mouth, being acclaimed by the community, it makes sense. It certainly made them more profit.
The fact that recent games are not to your taste doesn't mean they are poor quality.
I liked the previous boost games. I know what makes them good as I played those games to death. Forces is a low-quality effort. Face it! It doesn't have anything to do with "taste" as it uses the same formula after all. Plenty levels are basically recycled from Generations. Which would make them the rehash of a rehash.
 

cireza

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Forces is a low-quality effort. Face it!
Well excuse me, but Forces was great fun. You need to accept other people's taste. And you have no clue about sales or profit with these games.

You are simply pushing you personal preferences based on cover of quality/sales, which cannot be discussed as the first is purely personal and unrelated to sales, and we don't know the sales numbers.

I think that Forces sold more copies than Mania, it looks likely to me. You simply don't realize that a game like Forces caters to a younger audience, that is much larger than the old geezers like us.
 
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You simply don't realise that a game like Forces caters to a younger audience, that is much larger than the old geezers like us.
You don't realise that Forces is a worse/gimped Generations. Literially asset flipping levels, gimping mechanics, worse graphics then previous games on the same engine among other things. This would be like Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 sucking, despite being based on the same engine as the first.

Again, it doesn't have anything to do with taste, as I like the games that are based on the literally same formula, it doesn't have anything to do with the target audience being (I am no fucking oldtimer, Jesus) young. Those are weak fucking arguments and doesn't excuse Forces being the shallow and gimped experience it is. Make up your mind. If you wanna be a Forces apologetic, then at least don't come at me with dumb shit like "uhh, you're just not the target audience" or "its just not your taste".
And you have no clue about sales or profit with these games.
I do know that Mania sold more than 1.5 million copies. There are no hard numbers for Forces, but I guess it did 1 million copies as it is the number thrown around. There are leaked numbers too. Now think logically for a second: Mania had a much lower budget and much weaker marketing and still did better or at least as good as Forces. I can't proof it with hard numbers, but I think its safe to say it did made them more profit.

Well excuse me, but Forces was great fun
Some will say the same about Sonic Boom or Sonic 06. Meaning, its irrelevant. You standards for the series have to be very low.
 
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cireza

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You don't realise that Forces is a worse/gimped Generations.
Again, it doesn't have anything to do with taste
If you wanna be a Forces apologetic, then at least don't come at me with dumb shit like "uhh, you're just not the target audience" or "its just not your taste".
I can't proof it
Meaning, its irrelevant.
You standards for the series have to be very low.
You don't lack in self-esteem.

You basically have no argument, except for "I am right you are wrong, and I can't prove anything".

Forces has very high production value. You might not like the game, and don't like its level-design, but the game is very well polished, has no bugs, runs at 60fps and looks great on Xbox One X for example. You are so blinded by your hatred towards the game, and so much convinced that you know everything that you don't even understand how a game like Forces actually addresses a whole audience you don't belong to.

It is probably the same with Sonic Team Racing, which is by far the most polished entry in the series, and the only one running 60fps on console. Some people shit on it because it is "Sonic only", but the game is actually really good, you can tune cars which is a great and fun addition.

With Mania, Forces and Team Racing, SEGA released strong entries for the series and I am quite sure that they made great sales numbers with each of these games.
 

NewChoppa

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It might not have any bugs, and it may run at a solid frame rate, but it doesn’t change that the game surrounding all of that is pretty bad. The level design is easily the worst that’s been seen in a modern Sonic game (the rare split paths that you come into barely even take you away from the “main” path in a level), the story is mediocre at best, it lasts about 3 hours without even rushing the story, the music (IMO) is horrific...

You may not agree, but I think it’s pretty fair to say that Forces is easily one of the most mediocre Sonic games to releases. It reeks of missed opportunity
 
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Forces has very high production value. You might not like the game, and don't like its level-design, but the game is very well polished, has no bugs, runs at 60fps and looks great on Xbox One X for example
It looks worse than Generations on PC. The game is polished. A polished turd. A game that plays it safe and doesn't do anything remarkable at all.
You basically have no argument, except for "I am right you are wrong, and I can't prove anything".
My argument stems from experience with the games in the franchise. Apparently you lack reading comprehension, so for one last time:

1) Forces highly simplified the mechanics of previous boost games to a point where it's literally just spamming the boost button. You don't even need to turn properly because even that is automated.
2) It reuses assets from Generations and in general is super unimaginative in its level design.
3) It is super short, even for a Sonic game.
4) It got a nonsensical story that is poorly written.
5) The main gimmick, the OC editor, is dated.
6) Weaker graphics than Generations and Unleashed.
You are so blinded by your hatred towards the game, and so much convinced that you know everything that you don't even understand how a game like Forces actually addresses a whole audience you don't belong to.
How crystal clear do you need it to be? The whole argument about the right audience is nonsense. I am the audience. I play Sonic games for years. I played the good and the bad, the mediocre and the creative, the absurd and the charming. I am literally someone who would defend Lost World. I even find enjoyment in Sonic 06, despite how bad it is objectively. I'm not 10 years old, but that's irrelevant because that doesn't mean I can't enjoy those games and it certainly doesn't mean I can't criticize them. Games of other franchises like Super Mario, Rayman, Crash are also targeted at kids/teens, but they are well made games than can be enjoyed by adults too.

I am not blinded by my hatred, I just know what makes the boost formula work. Forces is the weakest entry of the boost formula and a recycled mediocre cash grab with gimped mechanics. I got over 100s of hours for each of Generations, Unleashed, and Colors. You know, the games Forces is based on!? I know those games in and out. You on the other hand just claim because I dislike Forces it means I am not the target audience. This argument has no substance at all.
 
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cireza

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I am literally someone who would defend Lost World
I hope you would, Lost World is a great game.

1) Forces highly simplified the mechanics of previous boost games to a point where it's literally just spamming the boost button. You don't even need to turn properly because even that is automated.
2) It reuses assets from Generations and in general is super unimaginative in its level design.
3) It is super short, even for a Sonic game.
4) It got a nonsensical story that is poorly written.
5) The main gimmick, the OC editor, is dated.
6) Weaker graphics than Generations and Unleashed.
1) They did simplify the boost section, but this does not make it a bad game
2) It re-uses some assets, and introduces outstanding new levels. The rest is up to your personal taste, I found the level-design quite good overall, but not particularly for the solo modern Sonic levels. Avatar and classic Sonic stages are pretty good in my opinion. Again, personal preferences.
3) Generations is just as short, but Forces has a lot of routes in each stages. Better replayability.
4) This is a Sonic game, if you want an elaborated story go and read Steins Gate or House in Fata Morgana. They actually made a story in a more serious world, as some fans enjoy this. Not you it seems, but again, that's your personal preferences.
5) It was perfectly serviceable as well as being simple, this is not Code Vein or Cyberpunk, it is perfectly adapted for younger kids
6) This is actually false, Forces has overall better visuals and runs much better than these games, that struggled to reach 30fps on consoles. Targetting 60fps makes for a much better visual experience, and is much more important in a fast game like Sonic.
 
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NewChoppa

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I hope you would, Lost World is a great game.


1) They did simplify the boost section, but this does not make it a bad game
2) It re-uses some assets, and introduces outstanding new levels. The rest is up to your personal taste, I found the level-design quite good overall, but not particularly for the solo modern Sonic levels. Avatar and classic Sonic stages are pretty good in my opinion. Again, personal preferences.
3) Generations is just as short, but Forces has a lot of routes in each stages. Better replayability.
4) This is a Sonic game, if you want an elaborated story go and read Steins Gate or House in Fata Morgana. They actually made a story in a more serious world, as some fans enjoy this. Not you it seems, but again, that's your personal preferences.
5) It was perfectly serviceable as well as being simple, this is not Code Vein or Cyberpunk, it is perfectly adapted for younger kids
6) This is actually false, Forces has overall better visuals and runs much better than these games, that struggled to reach 30fps on consoles. Targetting 60fps makes for a much better visual experience, and is much more important in a fast game like Sonic.

I respectfully disagree with everything you just said. The level design was plain bad. Boost gameplay wasn’t just simplified, it was oversimplified. The physics feel much worse - I mean, there’s a reason why the modding community still makes stuff for Generations while practically ignoring Forces.

There are videos out there of people finishing stages in Forces with one hand, without even having to touch the analog stick. There was nothing memorable about it - every stage feels like a straight line that rarely deviates from its main path, and when it does, the “shortcut” lasts less than 10 seconds. Forces has little to no replayability - if you’ve played through the stage once, you’ve probably seen all it has to offer. It’s the epitome of ‘boost to win’.

Generations may have been short too, but at least it felt like there was actually some time taken to design a level. A few of the later levels take a fair few minutes to finish. The longest level you’ll find in Forces will probably be over in less than 2 minutes.

Nobody is asking for an elaborate story, just a story that isn’t...well, horrible. Forces feels like it takes itself too seriously, and not seriously enough at the same time. Somehow Eggman took over 99% of the world but it felt like a minor inconvenience instead of being a threat

Visually, the stages all look uninspired. Nothing in Forces has the same kind of personality as anything in Unleashed, and yes, while Forces does run at a higher frame rate, it doesn’t change that the graphics surrounding the game simply don’t look as good as previous entries...even though it’s running on a newer version of the game engine used for those games. Play Unleashed on a Series X and you don’t have to even worry about the frame rate issues surrounding certain parts of the game - which makes Forces look even worse in that regard. Generations looks better too. Just because Forces is a newer game on more powerful hardware on a newer engine doesn’t mean it automatically looks better than the games that came out prior to it. It really doesn’t.

 
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1) They did simplify the boost section, but this does not make it a bad game
2) It re-uses some assets, and introduces outstanding new levels. The rest is up to your personal taste, I found the level-design quite good overall, but not particularly for the solo modern Sonic levels. Avatar and classic Sonic stages are pretty good in my opinion. Again, personal preferences.
3) Generations is just as short, but Forces has a lot of routes in each stages. Better replayability.
4) This is a Sonic game, if you want an elaborated story go and read Steins Gate or House in Fata Morgana. They actually made a story in a more serious world, as some fans enjoy this. Not you it seems, but again, that's your personal preferences.
5) It was perfectly serviceable as well as being simple, this is not Code Vein or Cyberpunk, it is perfectly adapted for younger kids
6) This is actually false, Forces has overall better visuals and runs much better than these games, that struggled to reach 30fps on consoles. Targetting 60fps makes for a much better visual experience, and is much more important in a fast game like Sonic.
1) Let's go back to the Tony Hawk comparison. Imagine they automated the grinding. Instead of pressing a button combination to do a certain grind you just have to jump on the rail and it automatically goes into the grind and chooses a random trick for you. Imagine in Super Mario Galaxy 2 they removed the triple jump and as a substitute, you just have to press and hold "A" which makes Mario float in the air. Imagine in Street Fighter IV you just have to mash the "A" button to make your Hadouken.
Simplicity isn't necessarily a bad thing and simplifying the mechanics doesn't necessarily make a bad game, but in case of Forces it takes away the spectacle, it takes away the depth, it takes away the feeling of accomplishment by being challenging.
As I said, it's just one step away from being an autorunning mobile game and after playing previous boost games this is a big step back.

2) Levels in Forces are too tube-like, meaning too straight forward. Nothing ever comes in your way and requires you to do something outside of the box. Environments are pretty boring, nothing you haven't seen before, and often reused from Generations. Compare how each of the boost games starts. Only Generations and Forces start with Green Hill. Generations was made to be a redux of classic levels. Forces just uses it because it's easier than to make an entirely new level. It's lazy and too safe and an outlook of what comes next. It's also the easiest boost game to get S-Rank.

3) Generations also has levels with separate routes and quite frankly, I think they are much better done.

4) I don't expect something deep. However, I expect it to make sense. I don't care much about the story in a Sonic game, at least compared to the gameplay, but it's not a well-written story at all, not even for what it is.

5) It's just presets you can put clothes/accessories on. Most games of the last 10 years with a feature like this do it much better. It's "okay", but dated.

6) "on console" Generations looks much better on PC. Unleashed has nicer aesthetics and more stylized levels.

I expected a bigger jump, especially when you're used to playing Generations on PC.
 
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Saber

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Well excuse me, but Forces was great fun. You need to accept other people's taste. And you have no clue about sales or profit with these games.

You are simply pushing you personal preferences based on cover of quality/sales, which cannot be discussed as the first is purely personal and unrelated to sales, and we don't know the sales numbers.

I think that Forces sold more copies than Mania, it looks likely to me. You simply don't realize that a game like Forces caters to a younger audience, that is much larger than the old geezers like us.

I dunno the point the other one is making, but no way in hell Forces did better than Mania.

Mania appeared in charts for like 6 or 7 months in a roll. Forces, pretty much like Team Sonic Racing never appeared in any chart.

I remember Ruby Eclipse saying about the smashing sucess of Mania but not a word about Forces. And mind you, this isn't about what you like. You can like whatever the crap you want. But you have to face that Forces was a failure, both commercial and as a spiritual sucessor of the boost formula. As a member already explained, some levels were very dumbfied to the point of only needing you to hold boost for the entire section to win.

And don't get me talking about the story, because its cringe and atrocious. Its probably the only Sonic game that is cheaper here than Mania.
 
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cireza

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Forces, pretty much like Team Sonic Racing never appeared in any chart.
Team Sonic Racing has been a long seller, and even resurfaced in UK charts much later.


But you have to face that Forces was a failure, both commercial
I am not going "to face" that Forces was a commercial failure when we have ZERO information that confirms this.

You guys are all stuck into mode : "I did not like this game, and this is why it commercially failed".
The fact that you did not like the game or find it bad has absolutely no relation to its commercial success/failure. You wish it had, but it actually does not. And let's be very clear, I don't care at all for Forces to be a commercial success. However, there is absolutely nothing we know that would bring me to think it was a failure.
 
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Saber

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Team Sonic Racing has been a long seller, and even resurfaced in UK charts much later.



I am not going "to face" that Forces was a commercial failure when we have ZERO information that confirms this.

You guys are all stuck into mode : "I did not like this game, and this is why it commercially failed".
The fact that you did not like the game or find it bad has absolutely no relation to its commercial success/failure. You wish it had, but it actually does not. And let's be very clear, I don't care at all for Forces to be a commercial success. However, there is absolutely nothing we know that would bring me to think it was a failure.

Look who is talking, the one getting sentimental because can't accept this game is a failure. Like the game all you want, Sonic Forces is a bad game and a commercial failure. If anything, it was more of a test for the new engime...which is nothing but the old engime updated.

Feels like we're backing time and I had to deal with 06 defenders. And this isn't me being against you liking those games.
 
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Fat Frog

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Starlight Lotice Starlight Lotice

I wonder which one will be the most disapointing. The rumored Nights or Balan ?
Takashi Iizuka

https://www.metacritic.com/game/wii-u/rodea-the-sky-soldier (Naka)

https://www.metacritic.com/game/3ds/yoshis-new-island (Oshima)

VS his ex teammates with Square Enix
(for Oshima, maybe we could point out Blinx 2 rather than Yoshi New Island ?)


I'm looking forward to many new Sega projects but i don't have a lot of faith in Iizuka or even Naka and Oshima.

I would be excited by a return of Yasuhara for a Sonic Game.
 
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Danjin44

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They do more than Capcom does with Ace Attorney series.
 

cireza

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Look who is talking, the one getting sentimental because can't accept this game is a failure.
I could not care less about a video-game having success. It's just a video-game lol... It was even written in my post :
And let's be very clear, I don't care at all for Forces to be a commercial success.

And the fact that we liked the game or not is irrelevant. We have no fact stating that the game is a failure, that's all there is to it.
 
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Dec 12, 2018
895
957
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Starlight Lotice Starlight Lotice

I wonder which one will be the most disapointing. The rumored Nights or Balan ?
Takashi Iizuka

https://www.metacritic.com/game/wii-u/rodea-the-sky-soldier (Naka)

https://www.metacritic.com/game/3ds/yoshis-new-island (Oshima)

VS his ex teammates with Square Enix
(for Oshima, maybe we could point out Blinx 2 rather than Yoshi New Island ?)


I'm looking forward to many new Sega projects but i don't have a lot of faith in Iizuka or even Naka and Oshima.

I would be excited by a return of Yasuhara for a Sonic Game.
The Wii version of Rodea is actually quite nice as it plays much better and keeps a good flow. Wii U/3DS versions were outsourced and the game just wasn't made to be played that way.


I had Nights Wii. It was weird, never finished it. I just couldn't get a hang of the controls.
 
Oct 24, 2017
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Why everything has to be "open world"? god I'm sooooo sick of open world these days.
Because it has never been done for a Sonic game.

I don't mean go to A, start level, go to B, start level, etc, I mean just a world full of speed traps and loops and shit. AND NO SHITTY FRIENDS (except Chip).