I remember there being a decently sized hype train rolling for this one not too long ago, and it was rather panned by critics recently. Did a search and I didn't see any commentary on it, and it's certainly a game I had at least a passing interest in. Anyone end up picking it up? How spot on are the reviews?
Edge 4'd it. I like Grasshopper but I don't feel like getting burned again after Contact's grind. I'll probably pick it up when it is reduced.
the game gives you less and less incentive to continue and in fact mocks you for doing so. Characters frequently launch postmodern assaults on the fourth wall, pointing out the games clunky mechanics, audiovisual failings and the near-negligible level of challenge from the puzzles all of which are limited to a numerical input and rarely derived from an act of logic.
I picked it up on release and finished it a week back. Most of the complaints about FSR have been about the graphics, which is due to it originally being a PS2 title. If you're willing to look past it, you're in for a world of suprises.
Essentially, it plays like a classic Lucasart/Sierra adventure game, except it a whole lot more focus on its plot. The game is divided into 18chapters, that cover the groundhog day cycle of Sumio Mondo's stay in Lospass Resort. You'll run around Lospass Resort talking to people, and then solving puzzles via jacking into them with your partner "Catherine".
The main reason why you want to play this, is for the story. Flower Sun Rain easily deserves the best story of 08, though english players are going to be completely confused during its final chapters, as FSR is one part in a major arc (others being the 2 Silver Case games & Moonlight Syndrome).
To put it simply, if you enjoyed Killer7; you'll love FSR.
I'm at day 7 (R-07), and so far this game has been great. If you can appreciate games that are very different from the norm, and don't care too much about graphics (they really aren't THAT bad for a DS-game to be honest) I think one will be pleasantly surprised by this game. And if you like any of Suda's earlier games this really is a must.
I played the first two days. Too weird for me. The solution for the second puzzle is buried in a 43 page pamphlet. Yeah, no thanks.
Suda fans will like it, but it probably doesn't have much appeal outside of that group.
I'm at day 7 (R-07), and so far this game has been great. If you can appreciate games that are very different from the norm, and don't care too much about graphics (they really aren't THAT bad for a DS-game to be honest) I think one will be pleasantly surprised by this game. And if you like any of Suda's earlier games this really is a must.
I ordered it today as a Christmas present, it seems very interesting in terms of structure and how the game is mockingly aware of the tedium it forces the player to endure. For me there is a lot of symbolic goodness that allows me to overlook what would traditionally be regarded as flaws in the game design. I think the idea of repeating the same day over and over, never fulfilling your goal or potential, is something most people can relate to!
Suda 51 reminds me of Jodorowsky, a comparison he would probably admire, but I mean it in the sense of a false rebel who creates some very interesting yet deeply flawed works that I can still find lots of meaning and depth in.
Suda 51 reminds me of Jodorowsky, a comparison he would probably admire, but I mean it in the sense of a false rebel who creates some very interesting yet deeply flawed works that I can still find lots of meaning and depth in.
Suda51 is practically a reincarnated Jodorowsky/Lynch as a game designer. His Silver Case/FSR/Killer7 works are very evident of this.
Shame is more recent stuff is nowhere as near arthouse as his earlier titles. To see him come to make self-parody games in order to sell more than 5k is a sad sight.
Rewrite said:
Completely agreed. It's like No More Heroes. People saying the same shit and I didn't enjoy NMH.
Except Suda had nothing to do with Contact, creatively input wise. And NMH is the exact opposite of Killer7 in pretty much every regard.
The only similarities between his works is the off-the-wall uniqueness that cant be compared amongst the other titles you see in the market. To the point where "its a suda51 game" has become a classification for grasshopper manufacture titles.
Suda51 is practically a reincarnated Jodorowsky/Lynch as a game designer. His Silver Case/FSR/Killer7 works are very evident of this.
Shame is more recent stuff is nowhere as near arthouse as his earlier titles. To see him come to make self-parody games in order to sell more than 5k is a sad sight.
No More Heroes was pretty much a video-game version of El Topo set in suburbia with an otaku as the protagonist. Hopefully The Silver Case will hurry its was to DS, that's the one I really want to play.
No More Heroes was pretty much a video-game version of El Topo set in suburbia with an otaku as the protagonist. Hopefully The Silver Case will hurry its was to DS, that's the one I really want to play.
I played the first two days. Too weird for me. The solution for the second puzzle is buried in a 43 page pamphlet. Yeah, no thanks.
Suda fans will like it, but it probably doesn't have much appeal outside of that group.
I've finished this game just the other day. I'd like to share my impressions and ask a few questions as well.
First of all, I adored the music. Notwithstanding their midi format, the remixes were fantastic. I am a big fan of George Gershwin's work, so it was a real pleasure to hear Masafumi Takada's reinterpretation of some of my favourite pieces of classical music. It made so many aspects of the game a lot more fun (and tolerable). Running back and forth all the time was made bearable thanks to the lovely soundtrack. It was also a very nice touch to name the chapters after the songs.
Now, the sound. I must admit, the first conversation I heard scared me. Suda had used gibberish sound for dialogue before in Killer7 and NMH, but I didn't expect the entire game to use it. Along the way though, I grew fond of it. Edo's voice in particular had a strange allure to it. It felt relaxing somehow. I actually looked forward to hearing his garbled voice. For the rest, the sound effects are all really neat. I think some of them were even re-used in Killer7 and NMH.
Visuals. The 3D models and environments are pretty horrible. However, the low-detail, somewhat cel-shaded look of the characters and the little visual touches here and there "saved" the game from being a complete visual disaster.
As for the gameplay, that's a tricky matter. There's a lot of running around. The puzzles usually come down to "check the guidebook". It's generally bizarre, unchallenging and sometimes feels like a way to stretch gameplay time (
The 2 "lovers" and the defusing of all those human bombs come to mind.
). Luckily, I enjoy math puzzles so I really didn't mind it. I always checked the Lost&Found list, hoping for a nice riddle. As Stephan Charbonie even says in the game, that feeling of seeing those red pixels form the word HIT can be very satisfying. Certain puzzles did feel very strange though, and I have some questions regarding those at the end of the post.
Finally, the main draw, the highlight, the raison d'être of FSR: the characters and the story.
I'll be frank. This is the most complex videogame story I have ever experienced. The cast is unforgettable. Sumio, Edo, Chris(tina), Toriko, Sundance Shot... All of them are loveable, mysterious, bizarre, amusing, intriguing and so on. The (first two-thirds of the) game feels like a mixture between Groundhog Day, Mulholland Drive and Franz Kafka's The Castle. Sumio Mondo is a kind chivalrous hero (except to naughty little children) on an epic quest to save the surreal paradise of Lospass Island. Within its own logic, the story makes sense yet at the same time you never really know what the hell is going on. Each answer begets more questions, yet, as Sumio says it himself in the game, perhaps there's no need for an explanation.
Some matters do feel slightly unresolved due to the fact that FSR is related to other Suda games in the Kill The Past framework, so I have some questions to ask, especially to those who have played The Silver Case and Moonlight Syndrome:
- Sundance Shot. I know he's also in The Silver Case. What exactly is his role in all of this? In FSR, he is the terrorist that places the bomb on the plane. He also seems to be a clone of Sumio. What I'd like to know is what is his connection to Toriko? On top of the roof they talk and seem to know eachother. Does he have a Silver Eye, as the eyepatch seems to imply. And if so, how is both a "god" and a clone of Sumio? What about those other clones? How does the clone-theory fit in with the timeloop-theory?
- Edo MacAlister. Late in the game, he grows angry with Sumio and claims he's not the real Edo at all, but he faints before he can "reveal his true identity". What happened here? Why did he faint? Is he really a fake or was he trying to trick in a way to show Sumio that he's far too naïve? Oh, and is there a link with The Silver Case regarind the Silver Eye's production?
- Step and Peter. Step is suddenly given a large role. He also shows up as a guide for Sumio in the garden. He barely has any lines, so what exactly is his connection to Sumio? As for Peter, at the very end he reveals that he's been trying to capture Sumio. I get the feeling this related to the Sumio Kodai from The Silver Case?
- Eleki Island. In Remy's chapter, you explore this underground facility. Yet, instead of fake Hyenas for the Silver Eye, there's clones, not only for Sudo, but for Remy as well. Are all the natives articially produced here?
I sure hope we get The Silver Case DS soon. I feel it could clarify certain plot elements, especially the story behind Sumio Kodai and Sundance Shot.
There's also a few puzzles that I felt were completely out of place/a huge jump in difficulty.
Take the one where you need to find out how many pieces of fruit there are. How the hell are you supposed to do this, without brute-forcing it (as in just trying all the combinations with a calculator) or writing your own little computer program to see what matches between x mod 7 = 3, x mod 11 = 7 and x mod 13 = 1?
Then there's also the one where you need to calculate the volume of a 12-sided column. I skipped that one in the game, though I think you can solve it using Pythagoras' theorem and some use of sinus and cosinus. Still, that's pretty advanced compared to all the other riddles. Is there some kind of fast formula?
There's a few other questions like this that feel more like something out of an advanced mathematics exam, compared to all the other riddles, most of them which you could solve without using a calculator at all.
Nice review, though I must remind you that the PS2 version looks a lot better, especially the outdoors areas. Your review almost makes it sound as if the graphics are identical on both platforms, which is certainly not the case.
It looks interesing, but the bad reviews have really put me off. I know "reviews, lol" etc. But I just have too many games to play through as it is, so I saw reviews as an excuse to skip it....for now.
I think the reviews have been negative because they haven't appealed to the author. Flower Sun And Rain is definitely one of those games that simply not EVERYONE will enjoy. It's a real shame too, I've been playing through it slowly and I am really enjoying it. It's definitely an acquired taste in gaming, but I just so happen to love this completely abstract and removed style of gameplay and storytelling, and that's why I really really like Flower Sun and Rain. It's definitely worth a try I reckon. =)
can't review a Suda game, son. It can only be experienced!
I don't have the money to buy this now, so I'm waiting. I bought my DS for contact which turned out to be a dud, but I don't think that had the marvelous music of Masafumi Takada -so this is most certainly better!
Shame is more recent stuff is nowhere as near arthouse as his earlier titles. To see him come to make self-parody games in order to sell more than 5k is a sad sight.
Pretentious gamer is pretentious. NMH was every which way as much of a Suda51 game as any of his other more art-house titles. It was obvious right from the games opening that Suda had poured a lot of time, effort, and love into creating something he genuinely wanted to create.
Just because it is more accessible and doesnt follow the aggressive art-house style of the likes of FSR, Silver Case, and K7 isnt sad at all. If anything, its testament to how he doesnt want to be pigeon-holed as a developer and is willing to branch out and try (successfully, at that) new things.
The rest of the game is using logic. If that's too difficult for you, perhaps you'd prefer other adventure games where you need to look for and combine a random assortment of items to open a door.
Honestly, the guidebook riddles and the math puzzles are just fine. None of the obligatory storyline puzzles are hard. Only the optional Lost&Found ones can be tricky at times. If you're randomly guessing numbers, then you're just not trying or plain dumb.
No I like logic. Using lateral thinking to figure out puzzles based on the ruleset of a particular game-universe is fun. Looking at a charming world filled with rudimentary puzzles based on a 'number code' system that most games use as throw-away quest filler is not fun
No I like logic. Using lateral thinking to figure out puzzles based on the ruleset of a particular game-universe is fun. Looking at a charming world filled with rudimentary puzzles based on a 'number code' system that most games use as throw-away quest filler is not fun
Is there any case you're having troubles with? It's a different system than most adventure games, but it's still a puzzle system. Perhaps a comparison with games like Prof Layton are more in order. Just use your lateral thinking to solve the math puzzles. As I said, most of them are pretty easy.
The rest of the game is using logic. If that's too difficult for you, perhaps you'd prefer other adventure games where you need to look for and combine a random assortment of items to open a door.
Honestly, the guidebook riddles and the math puzzles are just fine. None of the obligatory storyline puzzles are hard. Only the optional Lost&Found ones can be tricky at times. If you're randomly guessing numbers, then you're just not trying or plain dumb.
Its been a while since i analysed what i could make out of the story, so bear with me
Dascu said:
- Sundance Shot. I know he's also in The Silver Case. What exactly is his role in all of this? In FSR, he is the terrorist that places the bomb on the plane. He also seems to be a clone of Sumio. What I'd like to know is what is his connection to Toriko? On top of the roof they talk and seem to know eachother. Does he have a Silver Eye, as the eyepatch seems to imply. And if so, how is both a "god" and a clone of Sumio? What about those other clones? How does the clone-theory fit in with the timeloop-theory?
Sundance's role in Silver Case was minimal, apparently he only shows up in the opening sequence and manual.
Recall back that to Ritz's dialogue about the 11 children. Sundance and Sumio were apart of that group. The thing that separates them is that he is in possession of a silver eye, hence why he was able to do the time resets.
Dascu said:
- Edo MacAlister. Late in the game, he grows angry with Sumio and claims he's not the real Edo at all, but he faints before he can "reveal his true identity". What happened here? Why did he faint? Is he really a fake or was he trying to trick in a way to show Sumio that he's far too naïve? Oh, and is there a link with The Silver Case regarind the Silver Eye's production?
Edo was drunk.
That or he felt that he was in danger by aiding Sumio shutting the silver eye production factory, whom he worked for
Dascu said:
- Step and Peter. Step is suddenly given a large role. He also shows up as a guide for
Sumio in the garden. He barely has any lines, so what exactly is his connection to Sumio? As for Peter, at the very end he reveals that he's been trying to capture Sumio. I get the feeling this related to the Sumio Kodai from The Silver Case?
IIRC, Step was recruited to France in order to take down the terrorist groups. The Steps you meet in the game, are nothing but clones.
Sumio Mondo and Sumio Kodai are the same person, fitting the Kill The Past theme.
Dascu said:
- Eleki Island. In Remy's chapter, you explore this underground facility. Yet, instead of fake Hyenas for the Silver Eye, there's clones, not only for Sudo, but for Remy as well. Are all the natives articially produced here?
I personally never recovered from experiencing that moment. But from what i assume, it would imply that the 11 children were cloned there.
Like i said. FSR is a strange and fascinating game. But midway, it twists into a mindbending arthouse experience.
Oh and Vook. The PS2 version looks a lot better due to the higher resolution, better draw distances, and much more detailed textures; except everyone has manhand syndrome which was corrected in the DS version. Though it still looks like a low budget 2001 PS2 title
EDIT: Oh, if you loved the Takada remixed of classical tunes; pick up the 2 FSR albums for the complete audio experiences (no shortened lengths and complete samples). http://vgmdb.net/album/7229 http://vgmdb.net/album/1845
Oh and Vook. The PS2 version looks a lot better due to the higher resolution, better draw distances, and much more detailed textures; except everyone has manhand syndrome which was corrected in the DS version. Though it still looks like a low budget 2001 PS2 title
To be quite honest when I first loaded it up on DS, I was kind of, well, not surprised at all. I have to go back and have a look at the original, I think I'm looking at things through rose tinted glasses (but, well, the opposite of them :lol )
Edo fainting. There's little grounds for it, but, assume that the entire experience actually is just a dream of Sumio, or at the very least, that Sumio's thoughts have an impact on the island of LosPass and its inhabitants. In this case, I think that maybe Sumio's thoughts forced Edo to try and be something he isn't. In other words, Sumio was beginning to feel very obstructed and annoyed by the fact that he didn't know what the hell was going on. He wanted an explanation, a plot-twist, a deus ex machina that would clarify the whole deal. Sumio wanted Edo to be the terrorist, the mastermind behind it all. He wanted Edo to confess and explain what happened, to unravel the plot. So that's why Edo suddenly turned vicious and almost started to feel like a villain. Sumio wanted Edo to be a scapegoat of sorts, and, as the "dreamer/god" of LosPass, he made Edo the scapegoat. However, at the crucial point where Edo would have to say who he "really" was, Sumio's thoughts didn't provide the answer either. Edo blacked out because Sumio's subconscious didn't know what role to finally give him. Therefore, Edo fainted and was immediatly replaced by Sue.
Oh, and the point where Edo forced you to save; "Don't you dare take out that Game Card" had me spitting out my drink. I loooove all the 4th wall breaking in this game.
