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[MidgarBlowedUp]

Got a new 4k tv and I'm just thinking about sticking one of these between my receiver, (which does component to hdmi conversion), and my tv. I have a ps2 and ps3 connected to the receiver.

Anyone done this or using the 2017 version of the cable?

I'd love some examples or comments.

 

[TLZ]

Adam Koralik on YouTube has a few videos with comparisons. This one for example:



Just skip to the comparisons section and you'll see the part with mcable. He's done that for a good number of times in his videos comparing the many options.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Adam Koralik on YouTube has a few videos with comparisons. This one for example:



Just skip to the comparisons section and you'll see the part with mcable. He's done that for a good number of times in his videos comparing the many options.

Thanks for this.

It looks like my old receiver iether can't output 480p when doing the conversion, our my tv doesn't like the ps2s oddball progressive scan.

I'll watch the video soon. But my idea was to buy a PS2/HDMI converter from eBay or limited run games. Then i can just pass the signal through my receiver and into an mcable. Assuming they make one long enough or i can get an extender.

 

[Chozofication_]

I've often thought about getting one of these for wii / cube games since they almost universally don't have AA. But I would need an ossc or something since my tv still has component and I use that.

These cables are pretty amazing though.

 

[TLZ]

Thanks for this.

It looks like my old receiver iether can't output 480p when doing the conversion, our my tv doesn't like the ps2s oddball progressive scan.

I'll watch the video soon. But my idea was to buy a PS2/HDMI converter from eBay or limited run games. Then i can just pass the signal through my receiver and into an mcable. Assuming they make one long enough or i can get an extender.

He has a dedicated video for mcable and talks about it extensively. No comparisons in that one though, just his later ones after that one.

In case you didn't know, like 99% of PS2 games are 480i not P. Probably that's why your TV is having issues with it?

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

He has a dedicated video for mcable and talks about it extensively. No comparisons in that one though, just his later ones after that one.

In case you didn't know, like 99% of PS2 games are 480i not P. Probably that's why your TV is having issues with it?

My receiver converts 480i to 480p, and that works fine. It's when i select 480p from a game on the ps2 that the tv throws up. 480p ps3 works, so I'm guessing it's either the ps2 odd resolution or the receiver isn't passing the signal correctly.

If the mCable will accept 480p from the receiver i should be able to pass that on to the tv as 1080p..

I'll know soon enough. I ordered one.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

OK, so it came in the mail today. I only had a short time to test it out and it almost solves my issue.

My pioneer receiver will convert a 480i signal to 480p and the mCable does processing on it and sends the signal to my tv no problem. DOA2 Hardcore for ps2 was my first test and everything worked correctly. AA was definately working.

My next test was Tekken 5. Receiver 480i conversion to 480p worked fine. mCable AA processing worked fine.

Switching to 480p in the game is where problems start. It will work for a few seconds, sometimes a minute, then the screen will blank for a few seconds then everything is back. It continuously does this.

So I'm thinking i can try another ps2, which i have somewhere, then if that doesn't work, get myself a better stand alone scaler, or wait on the mCable classic, which could be forever.

Update;
I'm thinking out must be the receiver since the mCable should be converting 480p to 1080p. So I'll need too try and convert the ps2 output to hdmi before it hits the receiver so there is no conversion going on in the receiver.

Not sure what to get.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Got a cheap component to hdmi scaler/converter. It takes 480i and converts it to 480p and takes 480p and leaves it at 480p. This seems to make a huge difference to let the mCable do the upscaling.

480p games on ps2 look unreal compared to how they looked before. A big improvement from 480p on my xs955 CRT. I'm using the new x950g 4k TV from Sony. Even 480i games, when converted to 480p look great.

I'll post pictures later this weekend. Absolutely 100% worth it. Now i just wonder if a used dvdo is worth it.

 

[Mista]

Excuse my ignorance but what does it do exactly?

 

[TLZ]

The best picture you could get out of your PS2 games should be from a fully BC PS3 connected through mCable. Only issue those first PS3s aren't easy to find, well for me.

 

[TheShadowLord]

Excuse my ignorance but what does it do exactly?

It adds AA into games which makes them look more smoother.

 

[Riven326]

I just use the monster component cables ive had for years. Dont know if this is any better.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Got a cheap component to hdmi scaler/converter. It takes 480i and converts it to 480p and takes 480p and leaves it at 480p. This seems to make a huge difference to let the mCable do the upscaling.

480p games on ps2 look unreal compared to how they looked before. A big improvement from 480p on my xs955 CRT. I'm using the new x950g 4k TV from Sony. Even 480i games, when converted to 480p look great.

I'll post pictures later this weekend. Absolutely 100% worth it. Now i just wonder if a used dvdo is worth it.

Okay, this is amazing. Can you please tell us which items you used exactly to achieve this because I WANT to buy those said items ASAP.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

The best picture you could get out of your PS2 games should be from a fully BC PS3 connected through mCable. Only issue those first PS3s aren't easy to find, well for me.

I owned a 40 for 2 years before it ylod. All 4 I was sent after that died within a year. I eventually gave up and got a slim. I do not remember ps2 games looking this good on a BC model but it's been a long long time. I've never had an mcable. This is my first. I'm just blown away that it actually works.

Come to think of it, I still have my last 40gig model in storage. Maybe i could get it working and make some comparisons. I'm assuming the BC models upscale the ps2 games but surely the upscale mechanism used has been surpassed with newer or more expensive tech. The smoothing algorithm used is probably the same one used in my Sony x950g, which is listed as a digital noise reduction, will smooth out edges of jaggies and textures. However, the mCable works better with it disabled, at least on games I've tried.

So today my Spyder 5 colorimeter [$140] came in. I'll need to use it with Calman for Bravia [$150?]on my new TV [$1300] to get each hdmi input calibrated. I'll be busy for a few days so no idea when I'll have some images posted.

Even if this isn't the best way to get the best possible picture out of the ps2 (i don't have a Sony reference monitor) i still think it might be worthwhile to post some images.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Okay, this is amazing. Can you please tell us which items you used exactly to achieve this because I WANT to buy those said items ASAP.

Well, i can't recommend the cheap component to hdmi adapter as it appears to line double instead of properly deinterlace 480i. But it works fine for native 480p games you want too send HDMI. But I'll hold off cause i got more toys in the mail to test out. I'm deciding on whether our not to get a DVDO device or see what else is out there. The TV I picked was the 55 inch Sony x950g. It has low lag in game mode, won't suffer from burn in, allows for proper calibration through Calman for Bravia app/software, and has the X1 Ultimate processor used in their Master Series TVs. The panel used is the same or an upgrade to the popular x900f. A Sony rep called it the ZD9's little brother. I prefer Sony to other brands as the panel lottery is very good and they design their tvs around accuracy. Their upscaling is the best in the business.

I also have my ps2s soft modded and keep in mind some games can be run in 480p native through the xploder disc/software. Some games can also be hex edited for true 16/9.

I have a few games i test with. DOA2HC[480i line doubling easy to spot jaggies are huge] Tekken 5[480i/p], FF12[Can be forced to 480p] Silent Hill 3[Can run 480p or fake 720p], GT4[480i/p & although not true 1080i it still adds resolution at 60fps] Other games work too but those are the ones i have around that let me do different tests on them.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Well, i can't recommend the cheap component to hdmi adapter as it appears to line double instead of properly deinterlace 480i. But it works fine for native 480p games you want too send HDMI. But I'll hold off cause i got more toys in the mail to test out. I'm deciding on whether our not to get a DVDO device or see what else is out there. The TV I picked was the 55 inch Sony x950g. It has low lag in game mode, won't suffer from burn in, allows for proper calibration through Calman for Bravia app/software, and has the X1 Ultimate processor used in their Master Series TVs. The panel used is the same or an upgrade to the popular x900f. A Sony rep called it the ZD9's little brother. I prefer Sony to other brands as the panel lottery is very good and they design their tvs around accuracy. Their upscaling is the best in the business.

I also have my ps2s soft modded and keep in mind some games can be run in 480p native through the xploder disc/software. Some games can also be hex edited for true 16/9.

I have a few games i test with. DOA2HC[480i line doubling easy to spot jaggies are huge] Tekken 5[480i/p], FF12[Can be forced to 480p] Silent Hill 3[Can run 480p or fake 720p], GT4[480i/p & although not true 1080i it still adds resolution at 60fps] Other games work too but those are the ones i have around that let me do different tests on them.

Sounds great so far! Okay I'll wait for your final update and thoughts about which items and setup works best for PS2 generation in the era of 4K tv (which scare me to death when it comes to not being able to revisit older games).

 

[TLZ]

MidgarBlowedUp if you can somehow try that 40gb PS3 of yours for comparison would be great.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

MidgarBlowedUp if you can somehow try that 40gb PS3 of yours for comparison would be great.

If i can find it i would have to fix it. Any good tutorials on YouTube or somewhere to fix a ps3?

And i know this stuff has been covered to death and maybe I'm beating a dead horse but it's all new to me. I'm coming from a HD CRT and a few LCDs. It's my first new 4K TV and i was paranoid my older ps2/ps3 games would look terrible.

I also can't find many good comparisons of the newer mCable. They are also working on a retro mCable that works on even older consoles. But no release date, and the sign up page to be notified is dead.

 

[TLZ]

If i can find it i would have to fix it. Any good tutorials on YouTube or somewhere to fix a ps3?

And i know this stuff has been covered to death and maybe I'm beating a dead horse but it's all new to me. I'm coming from a HD CRT and a few LCDs. It's my first new 4K TV and i was paranoid my older ps2/ps3 games would look terrible.

I also can't find many good comparisons of the newer mCable. They are also working on a retro mCable that works on even older consoles. But no release date, and the sign up page to be notified is dead.

Ah damn. Looks like that'll be a long while.

About the PS3, was it ylod? Yea there are YouTube videos and ifixit blogs I think but it doesn't look simple.

 

[Iamjash]

I have one, the uses vary from game to game. Some games look great while others look only a little better.

I scored it on ebay for $20-25. Would reccomend, but only at that price.

 

[LOLCats]

Does your reciever have a pass through setting.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Stuff I tested today.
My mCable is connect from my receiver to my tv. PS2 goes into the receiver.

China PS2 to HDMI Adapter = doesn't do anything. Won't even pass a signal.

PS2 Pound Cable = Having to use RGB output producess cleaner textures with better color and color accuracy. I do think it's a decent solution but it won't pass 480p properly, at all really. Not sure why, but I assume its due to RGB mode or just the chip it's using or it could be the mCable.

I'm getting a new sony receiver to replace mine. I'll connect an hdmi switch so i can go between no mCable to mCable.

So far, i think My Life In Gaming did a great time consuming and tremendous job with explaining things.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Does your reciever have a pass through setting.

Yes. But a new one is on the way.

 

[Pagusas]

Stuff I tested today.
My mCable is connect from my receiver to my tv. PS2 goes into the receiver.

China PS2 to HDMI Adapter = doesn't do anything. Won't even pass a signal.

PS2 Pound Cable = Having to use RGB output producess cleaner textures with better color and color accuracy. I do think it's a decent solution but it won't pass 480p properly, at all really. Not sure why, but I assume its due to RGB mode or just the chip it's using or it could be the mCable.

I'm getting a new sony receiver to replace mine. I'll connect an hdmi switch so i can go between no mCable to mCable.

So far, i think My Life In Gaming did a great time consuming and tremendous job with explaining things.

Have you tried bypassing the receiver and just sending the signal strait to the TV as a controlled experimented? If 480p works then you know it was the receiver. If it doesn’t than its the tv or PlayStation

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

I'll post some comparison stuff later. [Eventually]

After seeing the quality of RGB compared to component, with the pound cable, I've decided to get an OSSC to use with the PS2. I picked up a good quality scart for the PS2 as well.

I'm going to try...

Scart > OSSC > Mcable > 4K

I'm calibrating the TV using Calman Autocal and a new Syper 5 Pro Colorimeter. If anyone cares, I'm sure there are youtube videos out there, I'll explain the whole process and show examples.

This is just all new to me, 4K + Mcable + PS2 HDMI.

 

[Karak]

I use them for some games but not when reviewing of course. I think that for some games they REALLY do help. Others less. But its a great idea overall.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

OK, so I'm back again.

Here's what I've learned so far.

• Calibrating your TV is essential if you want perfection. (I had to purchase Calman for Home Sony and A Spyder 5 Pro Colorimeter. I also used Mobile Forge with my Android's HDMI out to get proper levels)
• OSSC is great for RGB 480p HDMI in pass-through mode (It's about as perfect as you can get)
• OSSC is also great for 240p content (line double and add scan-lines)
• Pound HDMI Adapter is very good for PS2 480i content. It will not pass 480p.

Other Observations:
OSSC is a line doubler and it somewhat ruins 480i PS2 games in my opinion.

• The line doubling isn't perfect and makes jaggies more pronounced on my set.
• It does have some of that flicker as well.
• However, it does provide cleaner textures, even with component. (something to do with how it processes colors)
• It lets you choose the color reference output (like rec 709)
• Makes some PS1 240p games look really nice.
• Has a tweak-able scan-line option.
• Can also pass 960i/1080i? though I havne't tested GT4 or Valkyrie Profile JPN yet.
• N0 Lag
• Again, 480p titles look fantastic, especially with the mCable.
• Doesn't seem to pass much if any video noise.
• I recommend a quality RGB SCART cable. (I ordered one from Retrogamingcables)

The PS2 Pound Cable isn't perfect, but I prefer it for most 480i PS2 games on my display.

• It actually de-interlaces 480i instead of line doubling.
• Allows for RGB for cleaner textures. (Although not as clean as OSSC)
• Very Low Lag, but I play worse when playing DOA2:H with the Pound than with OSSC.
• Does pass some video noise..
• No Scan-lines.

For now I have 2 PS2's. One for 480p/1080i and some PS1 games, the other for 480i and some PS1 games.
I would imagine the Framemeister would be a better option for 480i PS2 games, to get better image quality, but it is very expensive.
It will be a long while before I fork over $400 for one.

I will post pics and videos eventually.

 

[Flying Toaster]

OK, so I'm back again.

Here's what I've learned so far.

• Calibrating your TV is essential if you want perfection. (I had to purchase Calman for Home Sony and A Spyder 5 Pro Colorimeter. I also used Mobile Forge with my Android's HDMI out to get proper levels)
• OSSC is great for RGB 480p HDMI in pass-through mode (It's about as perfect as you can get)
• OSSC is also great for 240p content (line double and add scan-lines)
• Pound HDMI Adapter is very good for PS2 480i content. It will not pass 480p.

Other Observations:
OSSC is a line doubler and it somewhat ruins 480i PS2 games in my opinion.

• The line doubling isn't perfect and makes jaggies more pronounced on my set.
• It does have some of that flicker as well.
• However, it does provide cleaner textures, even with component. (something to do with how it processes colors)
• It lets you choose the color reference output (like rec 709)
• Makes some PS1 240p games look really nice.
• Has a tweak-able scan-line option.
• Can also pass 960i/1080i? though I havne't tested GT4 or Valkyrie Profile JPN yet.
• N0 Lag
• Again, 480p titles look fantastic, especially with the mCable.
• Doesn't seem to pass much if any video noise.
• I recommend a quality RGB SCART cable. (I ordered one from Retrogamingcables)

The PS2 Pound Cable isn't perfect, but I prefer it for most 480i PS2 games on my display.

• It actually de-interlaces 480i instead of line doubling.
• Allows for RGB for cleaner textures. (Although not as clean as OSSC)
• Very Low Lag, but I play worse when playing DOA2:H with the Pound than with OSSC.
• Does pass some video noise..
• No Scan-lines.

For now I have 2 PS2's. One for 480p/1080i and some PS1 games, the other for 480i and some PS1 games.
I would imagine the Framemeister would be a better option for 480i PS2 games, to get better image quality, but it is very expensive.
It will be a long while before I fork over $400 for one.

I will post pics and videos eventually.

Thanks for the writeup and taking the time to put it all out there. I purchased a Framemeister almost two years ago and its absolutely brilliant piece of tech that is a hard pill to swallow at the price range it is set at. I am not a visual fanatic to the point of specs/specification sheet reading but the hobbiest in me decided that it was the most idiot proof way to do what I needed to do and I just figured as a one time purchase it was acceptable. On that front I can suggest it if you are on the fence.

Thanks again for taking the time and great thread.

 

[Chozofication_]

Thanks for the writeup and taking the time to put it all out there. I purchased a Framemeister almost two years ago and its absolutely brilliant piece of tech that is a hard pill to swallow at the price range it is set at. I am not a visual fanatic to the point of specs/specification sheet reading but the hobbiest in me decided that it was the most idiot proof way to do what I needed to do and I just figured as a one time purchase it was acceptable. On that front I can suggest it if you are on the fence.

Thanks again for taking the time and great thread.

I tried the Framemeister but hated it because of the visible noise evident in solid colors. I sold it for more than I paid and got the ossc lol.

 

[Flying Toaster]

I tried the Framemeister but hated it because of the visible noise evident in solid colors. I sold it for more than I paid and got the ossc lol.

How do you like the OSSC?

 

[Chozofication_]

How do you like the OSSC?

I quite like it, besides it feeling/looking like a diy hobby project compared to the Framemeister. But it scales my wii/gc/64 games well. No noise in solid colors

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Thanks for the writeup and taking the time to put it all out there. I purchased a Framemeister almost two years ago and its absolutely brilliant piece of tech that is a hard pill to swallow at the price range it is set at. I am not a visual fanatic to the point of specs/specification sheet reading but the hobbiest in me decided that it was the most idiot proof way to do what I needed to do and I just figured as a one time purchase it was acceptable. On that front I can suggest it if you are on the fence.

Thanks again for taking the time and great thread.

Thanks for the reply. I have quite a way to go. I really like the OSSC for ps1. It has a 5x line doubler for 240p that allows you to change the output mode to a few different resolutions. Its a nice option that helps with display compatibility. I haven't tried the pound cable with ps1 games yet though.

I'll eventually get a Framemeister, as I fully expect 480i games too look better on it than the pound cable. And the pound cable looks pretty damn good in my opinion.

 

[TLZ]

Thanks for the reply. I have quite a way to go. I really like the OSSC for ps1. It has a 5x line doubler for 240p that allows you to change the output mode to a few different resolutions. Its a nice option that helps with display compatibility. I haven't tried the pound cable with ps1 games yet though.

I'll eventually get a Framemeister, as I fully expect 480i games too look better on it than the pound cable. And the pound cable looks pretty damn good in my opinion.

A question that might sound silly, can you pass the 480i signal as a 240p signal on the ossc? If yes, maybe that'd fix the issue you're having?

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

A question that might sound silly, can you pass the 480i signal as a 240p signal on the ossc? If yes, maybe that'd fix the issue you're having?

I assume I could but my TV won't see it at just 240p, it would have to line double at least 2x and that's kinda what it does. So, everything gets line doubled, which is fine for older PS1 stuff with the right output settings. For PS2 though, it just ruins anything 3D in my opinion.

So, the question is how does the FrameMeister do at 480p? If it's as nice and clear (not crystal but close) as the OSSC then it's probably the only unit you would need for the PS2.
If it doesn't, and it sounds like it doesn't, then you could use an HDMI switcher between the OSSC and the FM. From what I understand the FM has 2x HDMI inputs and one can be used as a pass-through.
So, you should be able to use an HDMI switcher in-front of it so HDMI #1 can handle 480i/240p on the FM, then HDMI #2 can pass SCART 480p from the OSSC, or anything else from the OSSC actually, and without lag.

PS2-RGB-SCART -> OSSC -> HDMI Switcher -> FrameMeister's 2xHDMI -> TV

But it's late and I'm probably way overthinking this right now.
Anyway, I guess I'll buy a FraeMei$ter, and some more money while I'm at it.

 

[TLZ]

I assume I could but my TV won't see it at just 240p, it would have to line double at least 2x and that's kinda what it does. So, everything gets line doubled, which is fine for older PS1 stuff with the right output settings. For PS2 though, it just ruins anything 3D in my opinion.

So, the question is how does the FrameMeister do at 480p? If it's as nice and clear (not crystal but close) as the OSSC then it's probably the only unit you would need for the PS2.
If it doesn't, and it sounds like it doesn't, then you could use an HDMI switcher between the OSSC and the FM. From what I understand the FM has 2x HDMI inputs and one can be used as a pass-through.
So, you should be able to use an HDMI switcher in-front of it so HDMI #1 can handle 480i/240p on the FM, then HDMI #2 can pass SCART 480p from the OSSC, or anything else from the OSSC actually, and without lag.

PS2-RGB-SCART -> OSSC -> HDMI Switcher -> FrameMeister's 2xHDMI -> TV

But it's late and I'm probably way overthinking this right now.
Anyway, I guess I'll buy a FraeMei$ter, and some more money while I'm at it.

Since it's just the PS2 480i, and if you want a cheaper option, have a look at this video. He talks about the RetroTink, which is a cheaper option for retro devices to play on modern TVs. He also has cables in there that he says are the best ones for retro consoles, and one of them is for the PS2. If you only want to jump straight to the PS2 part, go to 34.19. I think I may have timestamped it anyway. The caveat is though, it's made for 480i and below, so 480p games won't work correctly on it. But if you're only after PS2 480i games looking their best using a PS2, and a cheaper option than ossc and framemeister, maybe have a look at this one




Oh, the cables he's using for PS2 are component. So component > RetroTink > mCable.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Since it's just the PS2 480i, and if you want a cheaper option, have a look at this video. He talks about the RetroTink, which is a cheaper option for retro devices to play on modern TVs. He also has cables in there that he says are the best ones for retro consoles, and one of them is for the PS2. If you only want to jump straight to the PS2 part, go to 34.19. I think I may have timestamped it anyway. The caveat is though, it's made for 480i and below, so 480p games won't work correctly on it. But if you're only after PS2 480i games looking their best using a PS2, and a cheaper option than ossc and framemeister, maybe have a look at this one




Oh, the cables he's using for PS2 are component. So component > RetroTink > mCable.

Thanks for this. I took a look at the video. The issue is that, like the ossc, the retrotink is a line doubler instead of a de-interlacing scaler. This is why i prefer the pound cable for 480i and the ossc for passing 480p and line doubling 240p x5. With the correct output settings 240p games can look really slick.

I've been reading that the frame miester issues can partially be corrected with calibration, correct settings, and profiling.

An overview is here

General Framemeister Notes

He notes that 1080p output gives the best image from the frmiester and mcable gaming 4k will accept, process, and pass 1080p to the tv.

I'm anxious to test it out. I'd say before this month is over I'll have one and then I'll get images and video posted.

Then, maybe I'll get another BC PS3 as i haven't been able too locate my old one. I'd like to test one of them out too on my 4K TV

 

[Trimesh]

...

OSSC is a line doubler and it somewhat ruins 480i PS2 games in my opinion.

• The line doubling isn't perfect and makes jaggies more pronounced on my set.

There is really no point in using the OSSC on 480i sources - it will normally make the image worse. It was intentionally designed to ignore the equalizing pulses that normally indicate an interlaced signal and treat everything fed into it as being 240p, since most of the old consoles it was designed to work with output signals that looked like 480i despite really being 240p60. So the net result is that it takes a 480i signal and outputs a 480p signal that's line doubled and has the even and odd fields in separate frames - but the downstream device now has no way of knowing that it's dealing with an interlaced signal because it's being fed a 480p EDTV type signal, and that's progressive scan and doesn't need deinterlacing.

Also note that on a formal technical basis the OSSC line doubling IS perfect - line n+1 is an exact copy of line n for all even n (if you look at the HDL, you can see that it outputs exactly the same data twice) - the reason it sometimes doesn't look that great is that this effectively halves the resolution in the vertical axis - but, as you've noticed, "technically correct" doesn't always equal "looks good".

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

There is really no point in using the OSSC on 480i sources - it will normally make the image worse. It was intentionally designed to ignore the equalizing pulses that normally indicate an interlaced signal and treat everything fed into it as being 240p, since most of the old consoles it was designed to work with output signals that looked like 480i despite really being 240p60. So the net result is that it takes a 480i signal and outputs a 480p signal that's line doubled and has the even and odd fields in separate frames - but the downstream device now has no way of knowing that it's dealing with an interlaced signal because it's being fed a 480p EDTV type signal, and that's progressive scan and doesn't need deinterlacing.

Also note that on a formal technical basis the OSSC line doubling IS perfect - line n+1 is an exact copy of line n for all even n (if you look at the HDL, you can see that it outputs exactly the same data twice) - the reason it sometimes doesn't look that great is that this effectively halves the resolution in the vertical axis - but, as you've noticed, "technically correct" doesn't always equal "looks good".

Maybe I'm expecting miracles with 480i PS2 content. I do know 480i looked really nice on both my WEGA CRTs. 480p PS2 looks better on my 4K IMO. Then again, I didn't have an OSSC to run a pure 480p signal into the HDMI on my HD Wega.

I'm really amazed by the OSSC though. I'll just have to get a FrameMiester for 480i.

 

[Trimesh]

Maybe I'm expecting miracles with 480i PS2 content. I do know 480i looked really nice on both my WEGA CRTs. 480p PS2 looks better on my 4K IMO. Then again, I didn't have an OSSC to run a pure 480p signal into the HDMI on my HD Wega.

I'm really amazed by the OSSC though. I'll just have to get a FrameMiester for 480i.

Oh, I'm certainly not knocking the OSSC - it was designed basically to do a certain job very well, and it does. It's just that the only way you can handle 480i->480p while maintaining the zear-zero latency that's the main feature of the OSSC is by not doing any field merging and just outputting the odd fields offset by one line (aka "bob deinterlacing"). Since this process outputs a progressive scan image, even if one of the downstream devices has a better deinterlacer than the OSSC, it won't use it.

On a CRT, it's not an issue at all, since it's basically your eyes that are doing the de-interlacing

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

It's just that the only way you can handle 480i->480p while maintaining the zear-zero latency that's the main feature of the OSSC

That's one reason why I got it. I figure if I'm playing a game where that kind of timing matters, like a fighting game, I'll use the OSSC. Then if it's something else where perfect timing isn't so important, like an rpg, I'll use something else like the Framemiester.

I ordered one yesterday.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

I'm so tired of buying stuff.

So the miester won't accept 480i over Hdmi. So, if you want to use the Ossc for 480p and FM for 480i you'll need a scart switcher (with two outputs) or two PS2s.

PS2#1 (480p & PS1 240p 5x)
RGB Scart -> Ossc HDMI-> TV

PS#2 (480i & PS1 240p)
RGB Scart - > Framemiester HDMI -> TV

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

So I got everything hooked up today and ran into some surprises and issues.

1. Framemiester is a different animal with the latest firmware. 2.3a I think. Gamma is now correct. Colors are correct. Lots of adjustments can be made now.

2. Framemiester doesn't appear to process 480p or 1080i from the ps2 using scart rgb. No idea what is going on there.

3. OSSCs 240p, even at 5x line doubled, just doesn't look any where near as nice as the framemiesters upscaling for 3D stuff. Haven't tested 2D.

4. I love OSSCs 480p pass through.

5. Something isn't right with the way the OSSC handles 960/1080i. Or my TV isn't handling it properly. Gt4 in 1080i looks line doubled on the OSSC even when set to passthrough. It's like 2x and passthrough look identical, which leads me to believe something isn't working correctly with the OSSC. I haven't checked the firmware version, it could need an update.

6. Framemiester can accept 480i through HDMI, but from what I've seen so far it isn't ideal. Kinda noisy or dirty looking. Could be something else, I plan on testing with shorter cables.

7. There are some games nothing can fix outside of emulation. Some just look like garbage no matter what.

In the future...
*I'll get around to posting pictures soon.
*I'm going to try and get component d terminal cable for the PS2 and see if that let's the framemiester accept PS2s 1080i

*As of right now I'm running component into the OSSC. But, I do have another rgb scart on the way and I have a component scart I can try too. Maybe one of those will get 1080i pass through from the ps2 correctly.

*One could always buy a separate component 1080i to 1080p upscaler.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

So, I've went down the rabbit hole and this is some mess.

For the PS2, you ideally want an RGB signal into whatever your final or near final device is. In my case it's the OSSC, Framemiester, or both. Anything RGB above 480i on PS2 is RGsB. The framemiester doesn't accept this signal which is fine as long as you use 2 PS2s or a Scart switcher. The OSSC has no problem with either signal but passing 480i /480p/1080i from the OSSC to the framemiester via HDMI doesn't really work optimally. This is because the framemiester isn't getting the analog RGB signal for it to process.

You can get RGsB converted to an RGB signal the framemiester can accept, but you'll need an extron converter unit (ebay) and some special cables.

So, as it stands we can do a scart switcher for 480p passthrough with the OSSC. Then 480i into the framemiester. The only inexpensive option for 1080i would be OSSC passthrough or, if you want the framemiester to do the deinterlacing, a high quality component cable.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Sorry for the hilariously bad phone picture. The moire is just due to using a phone to take a picture of the screen. I don't have a capture device yet.

Top Picture is DOA 2: HC run through a Framemiester 480p RGB scart without the mCable.

Bottom picture is the same with the mCable.

1080p output from the framemeister looks the same whether the mCable is connected or not. It doesn't seem to process the 1080p output of the framemiester. Not sure if it's just from the scaling or what. Strange to me though.

 

[Alexios]

From those pics it seems to work wonders for AA without softening the image too much. It almost looks like a low-ish poly model in native res rendering there. Crazy. We need that algorithm in AA injection software. How about in motion, is aliasing shimmering still evident?

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

From those pics it seems to work wonders for AA without softening the image too much. It almost looks like a low-ish poly model in native res rendering there. Crazy. We need that algorithm in AA injection software. How about in motion, is aliasing shimmering still evident?

I guess I'd have to know exactly what is meant by shimmering. I think of FFX shimmering textures when I hear that word and it absolutely does not do that. That isn't too say it's perfect, far from it, for the games I've tried so far though, the mCable only makes them look better to me.

But I'm running Ps2 Scart into a Framemiester then into the mCable then to the TV. The TV has a full Calman enabled CMS with a 20 point grayscale adjustment. I've calibrated it using Calman software. The Sony sets also have some of the best scaling in the business and don't adjust the image with bad algorithms like Samsung or other high end manufacturers.

If you do the same setup on a poorly calibrated display with mediocre component cables, which I've done, then the mCable output can make background scenes pretty blurry and almost undesirable. This is the main reason I went ahead and spent extra money, time, and effort. Framemiester can't process RGsB 480p so I have FM for 480i and OSSC for native 480p/1080i passthrough only. Both using high quality Scart cables.

Keep in mind those images are from a very old and jaggie 480i PS2 game. Something like Tekken 5 running into the OSSC via Scart then 480p passthrough to the MCable is a whole other level. You get a much sharper image with even better and cleaner AA.

 

[Alexios]

Shimmering is basically jaggies but in motion so far more evident than in any screenshot, things are constantly in flux, usually especially evident in small/thin elements like say, cables, grass, hair, fence grids, lately in pixel shader aliasing in some games. Dunno how else to explain it.

Edit: it's pretty evident at the start of this video for example:

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Shimmering is basically jaggies but in motion so far more evident than in any screenshot, things are constantly in flux, usually especially evident in small/thin elements like say, cables, grass, hair, fence grids, lately in pixel shader aliasing in some games. Dunno how else to explain it.

Edit: it's pretty evident at the start of this video for example:

There can be lots of that going on, or very little. It really depends on the game. You hardly notice it at all in Tekken 5 in 480p, you do see it in DOA but it's not bad, but throw in say FF12, especially forced at 480p with xploder boot disk, and head into the city and you see it everywhere. But go 480i into the framemiester then out at 480p and it's not bad again. But keep in mind this is ps2 at pseudo 480p so jaggies and shimmering will always be present to some extent. It's ultimately up to game being used and personal preference.

Another one with some heavy shimmer is GT4, but you can run the game at it's half baked 1080i and it isn't near as noticeable. But you get some heavy dithering and a few more jaggies. You will get a bit more motion resolution though, contrary to popular belief. You also have to deal with switching from rgb to rgsb with the ossc remote since gt4 switches to 480i when you aren't actually racing, then back to 1080i when you are.

The cable won't work miracles but it can really help. It just depends on a lot of factors and slightly subdued expectations.

 

[CrisPy2019]

Well not the latest but one from around 2015 but it's good enough.

Bought 4 for 7euros each from a local store that didn't know what they were and I can't complain especially considering the price I paid.

It does however fuck up text because it tries to apply AA on letters merging them.