Anyone who tries to turn teachers into an enemy needs to be run out of town.

[Joe]

watch this now:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzT5iKpxjFA

Spoiler

yes this is on reddit's frontpage but it needs to be posted here

 

[Tunavi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFHJkvEwyhk

 

[DanteFox]

Teachers are just like any other professionals. There are good ones and bad ones. I've had some really inspirational teachers as well as mediocre ones.

 

[Gaborn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFHJkvEwyhk

First of all, full video here.

Second, he didn't really answer the question. Sure Matt Damon isn't going to get fired if he doesn't do a good job acting, he's just not going to get a call next time from that producer or that director. But how is that a defense for keeping bad teachers around? "teachers want to teach" is not the same as saying that a teacher is GOOD at it.

Also, teachers make a fair bit more than the average person's salary, not a "shitty" salary.

Then again who needs facts? He's Matt Damon!

 

[Monocle]

If Waiting for Superman is to be believed, some teachers are the enemy.

 

[ThisWreckage]

I think a lot of people go into education because it is an easy major and they have no idea what to do with their lives. For years, teaching was thought to be a "safe" profession as well. I'm not completely shitting on the profession, but something makes me think that a ton of teachers are underpaid, apathetic, and only there to hear themselves talk or collect a paycheck.

 

[Nappuccino]

First of all, full video here.

Second, he didn't really answer the question. Sure Matt Damon isn't going to get fired if he doesn't do a good job acting, he's just not going to get a call next time from that producer or that director. But how is that a defense for keeping bad teachers around? "teachers want to teach" is not the same as saying that a teacher is GOOD at it.

Also, teachers make a fair bit more than the average person's salary, not a "shitty" salary.

Then again who needs facts? He's Matt Damon!

This post screams "I've never talked to a teacher about what they do when they leave the building."

I can guarantee you most teachers spend most of their time away from school doing school work. They get paid shit relative to the amount of work they do.

 

[Gaborn]

This post screams "I've never talked to a teacher about what they do when they leave the building."

I can guarantee you most teachers spend most of their time away from school doing school work. They get paid shit relative to the amount of work they do.

I disagree, they get paid a fair wage with GREAT benefits.

 

[devilhawk]

This post screams "I've never talked to a teacher about what they do when they leave the building."

I can guarantee you most teachers spend most of their time away from school doing school work. They get paid shit relative to the amount of work they do.

This post screams "I, like Matt Damon, didn't address the question of why shitty teachers should still be employed."

 

[Nappuccino]

I disagree, they get paid a fair wage with GREAT benefits.

Maybe where you are from, but in missouri and especially St. Louis, they put crazy demands on all the teachers and pay shit as well.

 

[Joe]

i don't give a fuck what matt damon thinks, why has he garnered all the attention? why are you all drawn to stars?

of course shitty teachers shouldn't hold teaching jobs.

 

[spiderman123]

I disagree, they get paid a fair wage with GREAT benefits.

I respectfully disagree, using the recent fiasco in Detriot as my example

 

[Jin34]

This post screams "I, like Matt Damon, didn't address the question of why shitty teachers should still be employed."

But that's not the real question/problem. It is how do I quantifiable know which teachers are good and which are bad?

 

[spiderman123]

But that's not the real question/problem. It is how do I quantifiable know which teachers are good and which are bad?

I always thought teacher evaluations were the best tool but I remember someone posted a similar thread and proved me wrong.

 

[Nappuccino]

This post screams "I, like Matt Damon, didn't address the question of why shitty teachers should still be employed."

But the problem isn't just shitty teachers, its shitty infrastructure and people affecting the learning process who don't understand learning.

Sure, shitty teachers deserve to be fired, but I think there are way more good teachers working their ass off than those who are not.

For instance, a teacher who is given a class of 80% ESL students (refugees) , many of whom are getting their first experience with english in that class should not be expected to have their class perform on par with the states median. And yet, they are.When you have to teach 4th graders how to speak the language AND rather advanced science/math/ english for which they never got the foundation, how can they perform up to par on MAP tests? How does this do anything but hinder the kids who already know the language? They do not get the attention they deserve because the rest of the class needs it even more. There are not enough resources for everyone and the kids are not being placed properly. Yet the higher ups don't care, they just look at the final marks and go from there.

And yes, this is a real scenario, my mom, a teacher of 15 years, had to deal with this for 3 years when she went back to teaching.

 

[harSon]

watch this now:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzT5iKpxjFA

Spoiler

yes this is on reddit's frontpage but it needs to be posted here

I'm pretty sure I saw this on Def Poetry Jam years back

 

[ToxicAdam]

The problem with teachers is that when school systems get pared back (which has been going on for 3 decades now), they do the exact opposite of what they should. They let go the young, more enthusiastic teachers and keep the older, calloused teachers. In my experience, the worst teachers I ever had were the ones who had been there 20 years and we just holding on for their 30 year retirement. If I ever had a young teacher that was bad, it was only because they lacked the confidence and tools to control their classroom. But it was rare

I'm not sure how you rectify that problem and still remain fair to everybody.

 

[dmag1223]

I think a lot of people go into education because it is an easy major and they have no idea what to do with their lives. For years, teaching was thought to be a "safe" profession as well. I'm not completely shitting on the profession, but something makes me think that a ton of teachers are underpaid, apathetic, and only there to hear themselves talk or collect a paycheck.

Agree. I don't hate teachers. I think they can be some of the most influential people in a young person's life. I've had a few teachers who were like this.

However, The vast majority of teachers I came across during my 4 years of high school were just plain mediocre. I was very unhappy with the education at my school, and I don't believe it prepared me adequately for college, And I went to a "National School of Excellence".

Also, There are a huge amount of education majors at my University who just don't give a shit, and only chose that major because they couldn't think of anything else. They also tend to blow off classes and schoolwork frequently. This is Ironic because these are the same people who HATED school, yet they want to teach.

I'm all for raising Teacher salary, as I think it is a very important job, but getting a teaching degree needs to be much more difficult than it is now, just to keep mediocre teachers from flooding our schools.

 

[Joe]

an education system with bigger budgets and no standardized testing will create better teachers and better learning.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

I like Matt Damon, and the interviewer is an idiot, so his response is justified.

 

[N4Us]

Well, that was a shitty cameraman.

 

[Nappuccino]

I'm all for raising Teacher salary, as I think it is a very important job, but getting a teaching degree needs to be much more difficult than it is now, just to keep mediocre teachers from flooding our schools.

I would be all for both these things.

 

[DR3AM]

i just graduated from asu in special ed go matt damond.

 

[mre]

I disagree, they get paid a fair wage with GREAT benefits.

This really varies wildly depending upon (1) the state and (2) the school district. One state may provide their employees with full benefits while another only covers a portion of the cost of health care to its employees. Some school districts provide extra compensation above the base pay provided by the state for teachers.

 

[jtb]

Good video. But it really ignores the fact that there are a shitton of bad teachers out there and they are corrupting and abusing a system that encourages stagnation and does not punish poor performance. How we fix that system is the issue here - not whether or not we vilify teachers.

 

[Slavik81]

Teachers are the enemy when their unions put the job security of the teachers over the learning of the students, and block the reforms needed to improve a dysfunctional system.

an education system with bigger budgets and no standardized testing will create better teachers and better learning

What measure would you use to determine if children are learning better?

 

[mre]

The problem with teachers is that when school systems get pared back (which has been going on for 3 decades now), they do the exact opposite of what they should. They let go the young, more enthusiastic teachers and keep the older, calloused teachers. In my experience, the worst teachers I ever had were the ones who had been there 20 years and we just holding on for their 30 year retirement. If I ever had a young teacher that was bad, it was only because they lacked the confidence and tools to control their classroom. But it was rare

I'm not sure how you rectify that problem and still remain fair to everybody.

This happened to my wife. After my second year of law school (and her second year of teaching in that district) she was pink-slipped (i.e., her contract was not renewed) along with 72 other teachers. Had she taught one more year she would have been tenured, but the school superintendent not only insisted that all teachers in her position be let go, but prohibited the principals in the district from rehiring them to prevent them from getting tenure. She was one of five teachers let go from her school that year, none of whom were able to find a job teaching in the district that year.

The flip side of this was the tenured first-grade teacher with 24 years in who--during my wife's second and final year of teaching in the district--was removed from her classroom by the principal because all she did was pass out coloring sheets for her students to do. That teacher was given an assignment in the library, while the rest of the first grade team had to take on an extra split of her class. However, because the principal didn't document shit thinking she would retire after she hit 25 years, she remained in the school as a "teacher" the year after my wife was pink-slipped.

I hate the tenure system, and that was my opinion prior to what my wife went through. All it does is reward a teacher for surviving 3 years (or however long, depending upon the school district). It's not merit based; it's automatically granted. The tenure system absolutely must go.

 

[beast786]

Seems like a very insecure teacher.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

I've had really amazing teachers that probably deserved 100k+ a year for their efforts and I've had a few that probably should not have been hired in the first place (why would you hire a teacher that can barely speak proper English). I'm not cool with the shit teachers making good teachers look bad and I'm not cool with keeping them around under any circumstances.

 

[Princess Carl]

Seems like a very insecure teacher.

You must be really stupid then.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

watch this now:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzT5iKpxjFA

Spoiler

yes this is on reddit's frontpage but it needs to be posted here

That was awesome.

 

[wenis]

I disagree, they get paid a fair wage with GREAT benefits.

haha sure, maybe where you live and the people you know...tell that to my mom and she'll tell you otherwise.

 

[ampere]

This post screams "I've never talked to a teacher about what they do when they leave the building."

I can guarantee you most teachers spend most of their time away from school doing school work. They get paid shit relative to the amount of work they do.

He's a libertarian

The market is perfect, invisible hand, etc

 

[Gaborn]

haha sure, maybe where you live and the people you know...tell that to my mom and she'll tell you otherwise.

Depends on what you define as a "fair wage" I guess but certainly above average compared to other jobs as my link earlier showed.

ciaossu - Interestingly public school teachers on average get paid significantly higher wages than private school teachers. You can make of that whatever you want.

 

[Evlar]

He's a libertarian

The market is perfect, invisible hand, etc

If the market is so perfect I wonder whether he would consider pursuing a career in teaching, given that it's not a particularly difficult field to enter and, by his own admission the benefits are GREAT.

 

[eastmen]

I worked in a school and its really bad , you have young teachers working their butts off and then you have older teachers who just don't care . Some of the older teachers don't even know how to turn on their pcs and they are teaching the future of this country.


They need to switch to a system where every x amount of years they need to be evaluated again for tenure and they then keep it for a few years before going through the review again.

Also the reviews should be done by outside parties not anyone who is part of the school.

 

[badcrumble]

Depends on what you define as a "fair wage" I guess but certainly above average compared to other jobs as my link earlier showed.

ciaossu - Interestingly public school teachers on average get paid significantly higher wages than private school teachers. You can make of that whatever you want.

You must be even more upset about people getting paid hundreds of millions of dollars!

 

[Gaborn]

If the market is so perfect I wonder whether he would consider pursuing a career in teaching, given that it's not a particularly difficult field to enter and, by his own admission the benefits are GREAT.

You can ask me you know, I'm right here.

And no I wouldn't because I don't have the patience for laziness, stupidity, or slow learners.

badcrumble - If it's a private company why would I be upset?

 

[Wall]

I'm all for raising Teacher salary, as I think it is a very important job, but getting a teaching degree needs to be much more difficult than it is now, just to keep mediocre teachers from flooding our schools.

This, a thousand times, this.

Unfortunately, most of the reform proposals I've seen end up treating teaching like a sales job where the idea is to just higher a bunch of people, let them sink or swim, then fire the ones who don't meet measure up in some way.

It ends up wasting the time of the prospective teachers who aren't even properly trained or prepared in the first place, as well as the students who get used as guinea pigs as the system tries to separate the "good" teachers from the "bad" ones.

 

[badcrumble]

badcrumble - If it's a private company why would I be upset?

Then admit that you aren't upset about public school teachers' wages - admit that what you're upset about is that public education exists whatsoever.

 

[The Teachinator]

The problem with teachers is that when school systems get pared back (which has been going on for 3 decades now), they do the exact opposite of what they should. They let go the young, more enthusiastic teachers and keep the older, calloused teachers. In my experience, the worst teachers I ever had were the ones who had been there 20 years and we just holding on for their 30 year retirement. If I ever had a young teacher that was bad, it was only because they lacked the confidence and tools to control their classroom. But it was rare

I'm not sure how you rectify that problem and still remain fair to everybody.

This is a very popular sentiment but as a young(29) teacher I can say that it is highly inaccurate.

I knew that I wanted to be a teacher after leaving High School and pursued a career in education as soon as I hit college. My major was not easy and my state holds teachers extremely accountable. I needed to complete many hours of observation, student teaching, testing, demonstration lessons in order to receive my undergrad and state license. After this I then had to obtain a Masters degree in order to be a teacher beyond the first 5 years. I did this in conjunction with my employment. I was being paid $39,000 while I was paying about $10,000 a year to receive my masters. I'm not jaded over this. I wanted to make the investment in my education.

I've been in 5 different schools(middle and high school). Of these 5 I've been employed by 2, both in the same city. My first school was a middle school that catered to 1,200 children from grades 6-8 and employed 92 teachers. My current school caters to about 400 children from grades 5-8 and employs 20 teachers.

My first school was in a rough neighborhood and the staff was predominantly young, fresh out of college and just getting their chalk on the board. A few of the young teachers did not take the job seriously. They often took days off. Showed up to work hung over and just did not dress in a professional manner. The school was also very challenging. Students and parents were not invested in education. It was a very combative environment. I myself was physically assaulted with a 20 pound text book. A student walked to the front of my room and hit me with a textbook in the head repeatedly until i passed out. The last thing I remember was the rest of the class cheering him on. After recovering and getting a few weeks off I went back. I needed to. I needed to pay for my masters. I was scared to go to work. I began seeking employment in other fields. No one was on my side. The parents detested when you called home to report a students progress. The kids didn't want to do the work. The principal had to meet certain criteria and threw teachers under the bus as she pleased to avoid the blame(that she deserved).

Through a friend I heard that a good school in the same city was hiring. It was regarded as a school that teacher's died at. Meaning a lot of the staff was OLD. I was excited to be in an environment with these teachers. I went for my interview and thankfully got the position!

There were some major differences at this school. One of the key differences was a SENIOR STAFF. They knew the neighborhood, they knew the culture, they taught the parents, they had routines, and above all they had expectations. This is where I have met some of the best teachers in the world and they are not young. Many of my coteachers are in their 50s. They enjoy what they do. They spend time after school volunteering to enrich the environment for not just the students but the community. These teachers set the expectation for younger teachers to fill their shoes. The school doesn't just expect you to teach it expects you to participate in the community.

80% of people who enter the field of education leave within the first 5 years. It is not what people think it is. It's tough. Mentally and physically draining. Kids require everything of you and they deserve it.

I've seen that statistic come true. I've seen people who left the private sector to come teach because they thought it would be relaxing leave and go back to the private sector. I've seen more young teachers than I can count leave to get higher pay elsewhere.

The supposition that younger teachers do more or are somehow better is false. It's just a political position. Younger teachers make inherently less than someone that has been teaching for 25 years. It is economically prudent for politicians to paint older teachers as some weight that must be shed. These are hardworking and dedicated people who often attend workshops on the weekend to stay on top of educational trends.

Currently standardized tests are being used to link teachers salaries. The better the kids do the better your pay. Some of this has begun to hit my district and it has generally created a hostile work environment. Teachers fighting for the "smart kids" because they'll be paid more. Boring lessons that lend themselves to just teaching for the test. But what are you supposed to do if your salary is linked to your test scores? It's as if a whole 8 years of this child's education will predict my paycheck. These tests have also caused other clases to fall by the wayside. Instead of being scheduled for art, music, social studies and science, students are receiving double time in Math and Literacy. Principals are doing this because they receive bonuses based on how their schools perform on the math and literacy standardized tests.

Most of these tests are dependent on prior knowledge which is totally out of the hands of the classroom teacher! For instances, a few years ago a reading passage was given about Jaques Costeaue with multiple choice questions in our state. Children in the suburbs out performed children in the cities on a scale of 5 to 1 on this section.

Just last year a passage about Shaquile O'Neal was on the teast with multiple choice questions. Urban children outperformed the suburbs on a scale of 5 to 1.

is this because of anything I did or taught or didn't teach? These tests that teachers are being graded on and being held accountable for are not objective. In fact at this point what is preventing the state from creating a test that is so terribly challenging that way they can just pay the teachers less?

The education question is a big one. But if you ask me, someone who's in the field, what's wrong with education. It's not young teachers, it's not old teachers, it's standardized testing that is holding our children accountable for archaic methods and information. It's politicians using our children as poltiical talking points. It's parents who beat and verbally abuse their children. It's poverty that makes education the least of a child's worries. Schools are a mirror for the community in which they are placed. A school puts on display, for better or worse, what a community has to offer. If the schools not performing often times it's because of deep seeded community and social problems. These problems are tougher to quantify and therefore it's easier just to say, "My kid didn't do good because Mr. Smith is old and talks boring."

 

[chessnut]

Teachers do have great benefits. Salaries start at around 40k and increase the longer you teach (granted this varies from state to state, but this is what I've seen in Texas). Also they have about 3 and a half months off a year.

 

[The Teachinator]

I disagree, they get paid a fair wage with GREAT benefits.

Would you agree that you should be paid enough to live within the community you serve? Often times teachers who work for great districts can't afford to live in the same community to send their children to that school. This is a situation I'm currently facing and it's rather sad.

My benefits are actually terrible. I had my wisdom teeth extracted this past year. There was even a cyst around one of them. It cost me $1600. I got $200 back. There isn't a single doctor in my county that accepts my health insurance. In fact I have to travel to the next state to see a doctor and often they aren't the best.

Just because you read a few articles or summations doesn't make you an expert. I love my job and I live it every day. It's just sad to see the American people take a dump on their educators. To insinuate that we are lazy or stupid is just silly. To insinuate that of the children I teach is even further disgusting.

You don't know a man's life until you've walked a day in his shoes. I suggest you leave all the "journalism" and "politiking" out of education. The profession is better than that nonsense. I prefer not to watch the news anymore because it makes me feel sick every time my profession and colleagues are demonized.

You know who is stealing your tax money: McGraw Hill, Columbia Teacher's College, Prentice Hall, Houghton Mifflin, Pearson Publishing, and any other educational publishing company and or professional development service out there.

Take a look at your local school's budget and see how much is being spent on outside services to "develop" teachers. It'll make you sick.

 

[Gaborn]

Then admit that you aren't upset about public school teachers' wages - admit that what you're upset about is that public education exists whatsoever.

What? Where did I say I'm "upset" at public school teachers wages? I've said

I disagree, they get paid a fair wage with GREAT benefits.

If I think it's a fair wage why am I upset?

I also pointed out as a matter of fact that private school teachers get paid less than public school teachers. That again, is simply being factual. I think OTHER PEOPLE have been upset about public school teachers wages in the belief that they're too low (although compared to what, what a fair salary would be in their view etc you'd have to ask them).

And for the record I don't have a problem with public schools. I DO have a problem with the Department of Education at the federal level. Public education was not particularly poor prior to 1979 and I don't think it's gotten any BETTER since then so I would eliminate the DOE at the federal level. Public schools though? The ability to access education has improved the quality of life in the US significantly and I think that's a good thing.

The Teachinator - I think it would make sense for a school district in an affluent area to pay a wage commensurate with attracting a teacher to them. If you choose to work in an affluent area when they're not willing to pay you enough that's not the school district's fault that's your own problem, perhaps you should move to one you can afford to live in and encourage others in your situation to do the same.

 

[The Teachinator]

This, a thousand times, this.

Unfortunately, most of the reform proposals I've seen end up treating teaching like a sales job where the idea is to just higher a bunch of people, let them sink or swim, then fire the ones who don't meet measure up in some way.

It ends up wasting the time of the prospective teachers who aren't even properly trained or prepared in the first place, as well as the students who get used as guinea pigs as the system tries to separate the "good" teachers from the "bad" ones.

So 4 years of undergraduate work.

36 Masters Credits

500 Hours of in service education every 5 years

1 Content Specialty test

4 Content Specialty Essays

1 Teaching foundations test

Paying the local Police Department to finger print me

6 Months student teaching

100 Observation Hours

4 Observations by the schools principal/asst principal a year


Are not enough for you? You'd like to spend even more taxpayer money on the supervision, licensing and accrediting of teachers? What else do you think should be added to that list if you don't mind me asking? Because that's what I am and was held accountable for.

Did you know that if I receive a U(unsatisfactory) in my annual performance rating my salary is locked? Most people don't know this and complain that bad teachers continue to see pay increases. This often DOES NOT happen as these teachers will receive a U rating. Teachers aren't willing to put up with others who make a bad name for them. I've seen it first hand.

 

[RSLAEV]

Teachers are an easy target for critics to focus on because no one wants to tackle the real problem-Parents who are unable or unwilling to properly raise their fucking kids.

Show me a stupid fucking kid and I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts it's the household that's to blame. Teachers aren't there to raise your kids, to teach them right from wrong and impress upon them that it's important to live a good life, be nice to people, take care of the environment and just try to leave this earth a little better than it was when you came into it. That falls on the parents, and most parents are either very bad at being parents, or stretched too thin psychologically from having to work their asses off (or both) that they aren't doing their job. But you can't threaten to fire parents so...

 

[Gaborn]

So 4 years of undergraduate work.

36 Masters Credits

500 Hours of in service education every 5 years

1 Content Specialty test

4 Content Specialty Essays

1 Teaching foundations test

Paying the local Police Department to finger print me

6 Months student teaching

100 Observation Hours

4 Observations by the schools principal/asst principal a year


Are not enough for you? You'd like to spend even more taxpayer money on the supervision, licensing and accrediting of teachers? What else do you think should be added to that list if you don't mind me asking? Because that's what I am and was held accountable for.

Did you know that if I receive a U(unsatisfactory) in my annual performance rating my salary is locked? Most people don't know this and complain that bad teachers continue to see pay increases. This often DOES NOT happen as these teachers will receive a U rating. Teachers aren't willing to put up with others who make a bad name for them. I've seen it first hand.

Any other job if you got an unsatisfactory rating you'd be fired. A failure to get a raise is hardly a deterrent to bad teachers comparatively.

 

[The Teachinator]

What? Where did I say I'm "upset" at public school teachers wages? I've said



If I think it's a fair wage why am I upset?

I also pointed out as a matter of fact that private school teachers get paid less than public school teachers. That again, is simply being factual. I think OTHER PEOPLE have been upset about public school teachers wages in the belief that they're too low (although compared to what, what a fair salary would be in their view etc you'd have to ask them).

And for the record I don't have a problem with public schools. I DO have a problem with the Department of Education at the federal level. Public education was not particularly poor prior to 1979 and I don't think it's gotten any BETTER since then so I would eliminate the DOE at the federal level. Public schools though? The ability to access education has improved the quality of life in the US significantly and I think that's a good thing.

The Teachinator - I think it would make sense for a school district in an affluent area to pay a wage commensurate with attracting a teacher to them. If you choose to work in an affluent area when they're not willing to pay you enough that's not the school district's fault that's your own problem, perhaps you should move to one you can afford to live in and encourage others in your situation to do the same.

Your last point is extremely ignorant of the current job climate, familial ties. It's just so easy to pick up and leave your family? Your home? Your mortgage?

You asked what a fair salary is to a teacher. A fair salary to me is one that allows me to live within the district that I teach. My state is currently on a hiring freeze. It's impossible for me to be hired by another school. But really thanks for your totally not well thought out response.

 

[The Teachinator]

Any other job if you got an unsatisfactory rating you'd be fired. A failure to get a raise is hardly a deterrent to bad teachers comparatively.

And how do you objectively quantify a bad teacher? I've only ever worked with ONE teacher that I felt was deserving of a U. I'm curious what your objective criterion is for assessing wether a teacher is satisfactory or unsatisfactory?

 

[Freshmaker]

I think a lot of people go into education because it is an easy major and they have no idea what to do with their lives. For years, teaching was thought to be a "safe" profession as well. I'm not completely shitting on the profession, but something makes me think that a ton of teachers are underpaid, apathetic, and only there to hear themselves talk or collect a paycheck.

Weird how teaching is a respected profession in every part of the world but the US.

And how do you objectively quantify a bad teacher? I've only ever worked with ONE teacher that I felt was deserving of a U. I'm curious what your objective criterion is for assessing wether a teacher is satisfactory or unsatisfactory?

Student test scores must increase every year you're teaching or you've failed.