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AOC slams Dem centrists as ‘Tea Party of the left,’ suggests Biden shouldn’t be in same party

Kenpachii

Member
Mar 23, 2018
6,689
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Fixed that for you.

 

Yoboman

Member
Sep 17, 2005
19,390
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We are skewed towards limited government and personal liberty, as a result of our founders leaving Britian, and then defeating them, over British desire to oppress us via religious and economic means.

It's why our founders were so big on freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and the right to bear arms. Worth noting, our Federal government should be far less powerful than it is even now, unfortunately it has seized power [though still less than elsewhere] by abuse of the Commerce Clause and other methods.

The 'leftist' economics of socialism require levels of State control incongruent with personal freedom. It's only through this abuse and misuse of terms that US liberty has been somehow redefined as 'right', state control as 'left', and it's no surprise why the powers that be constantly propagandize state control as being good, since their greedy little paws want as much power as possible.

So now we're stuck with 'progressives from the left' that pretend the moral high ground while calling for state control and authoritarian measures... a bit more introspection may help one realize a smaller State allows more freedom of behavior, not less, and it's been America championing liberty for centuries, not Europe. One might also look at history and realize that once power is obtained by the State, shit inevitably goes sideways. But propaganda is a bitch, so here we are.

AOC being a 'moderate leftie' in Europe should scare the pants off of Europe. You're letting authoritarians rule the roost. But I suppose Europe has always had a problem with that. Now after setting the stage, and redefining words to their liking, they're coming for us.
How do you square away that your personal right to life, liberty, and pursuit to happiness is in fact compromised by the issue that the American system is overrun with crony capitalism and monopolisation of healthcare, education and so on which limit your ability to pursue those rights?

There is nothing radical about identifying that these things should be the right of every American to pursue without coming up against the profit motives of your current system.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
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How do you square away that your personal right to life, liberty, and pursuit to happiness is in fact compromised by the issue that the American system is overrun with crony capitalism and monopolisation of healthcare, education and so on which limit your ability to pursue those rights?

There is nothing radical about identifying that these things should be the right of every American to pursue without coming up against the profit motives of your current system.
???

Crony capitalism, sure, depending on your area we see a lot of it but ironically it is worst in densely-populated areas which typically vote Democrat. Our healthcare is not monopolized, we have more options opening up all the time. For instance, in my state the two major players are the BCBS network (supported by our Democrat governor with personal ties to them) and the McClaren network. There are also a variety of pay-per-visit heathcare facilities which do not require any insurance and are helping drive down the costs of routine visits in the healthcare networks. Education is also not monopolized as there are options between public school, private school, charter schools, and some states even enjoy vouchers and school-of-choice in order to further open up their options.
 

jason10mm

Member
Feb 3, 2009
2,296
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How secure is her seat? Seems like the amazon deal alone should allow a normal dem to oust her, much less the rest of her rhetoric. I imagine a Republican has no shot but can't see why the DNC doesnt stealth back someone to boot her.
 

desertdroog

Member
Aug 12, 2008
6,692
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1,400
How secure is her seat? Seems like the amazon deal alone should allow a normal dem to oust her, much less the rest of her rhetoric. I imagine a Republican has no shot but can't see why the DNC doesnt stealth back someone to boot her.
For AOC? Who knows, A glass of water with a D on it could win according to Nancy Pelosi.

 
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autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
13,888
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1,040
How do you square away that your personal right to life, liberty, and pursuit to happiness is in fact compromised by the issue that the American system is overrun with crony capitalism and monopolisation of healthcare, education and so on which limit your ability to pursue those rights?

There is nothing radical about identifying that these things should be the right of every American to pursue without coming up against the profit motives of your current system.

Because the 'crony' part of crony capitalism is not a byproduct of capitalism, but a byproduct of any system. In fact, given socialism and communism fortify the connection between business and politicians, I would argue both suffer from far deeper cronyism issues.

If you are against crony capitalism [as we should be], we want to sever ties between politics and business, not empower those ties. This is why many on the right are against regulations, for example [and prefer other methods to clean up business, such as lawsuits] because they correctly recognize most regulations are being directly written by corporate lobbyists and are, in fact, creating crony capitalism and not actually regulating what they should. An easy example of this would be regulations on 'organic foods', for example, which put costly fees on getting registered so that indy farmers can not advertise their food as organic, but large corporations can easily use built in loopholes to get that label despite not being organic.

Healthcare is a mess for many reasons, but that does not mean the answer is socializing healthcare. We need to clean up the interaction between large corporate insurers, health care providers, and big pharm. That trinity, operating under a mess of bueracrasy and at cross purposes, is driving up prices. [Hospitals overcharge because they know insurers will underpay, etc.] Where insurers are not as involved [lasik is the go to example] we see competitive prices. Trump's recent move towards forcing providers to show prices is a huge step forward in this direction.

Education? Prices are high because of government. The government subsidized guaranteed loans. The obvious and direct result of that is that universities raised prices to get more of that cash. In fact, they started inventing entirely new product lines [I mean, college majors] to pull in more and more people, further raising prices. The fact is, we don't need every single person getting a college education, and the propaganda against trade jobs that became prevalent in the 80s needs to stop. We need less people going to college.

Just as importantly, we need college loans to not be guaranteed, but to adequately assess risk. A bank should not give you a $200k loan [or worse, govt give you a free ride] if your career choice is underwater basket weaving. And if they didn't, college prices would drop like a rock and loans/career choices would naturally realign. You could get an appropriate loan versus income potential if both a bank and a college thought you would make a good doctor/engineer/etc.

Socializing education is exactly the wrong direction, and would only exacerbate the situation. Imagine if these monstrous universities that already suck up cash for paper thin degrees get a guaranteed paycheck for every student on the taxpayer's dime. Disaster. Absolute disaster. Not to mention, every part of our educational system our Federal government has touched since we formed the Dept of Education in 1980 has went to shit. High school is already near worthless, why are we discussing making it an 8 year program... we need people in the workforce, not behind desks twiddling thumbs, learning some made up major until they're in their mid20s.

As for 'every American has the right to pursue'..... yes, every American has the right to prove themselves in high school as an exemplary student. If they do, colleges will accept them. If a college accepts them, and their major shows promise of allowing a student to pay back their loans, then a bank will rightly make such a loan. What every American does not have a right to is studying 'gender studies' paid for by taxes taken from another 20 year old who is apprenticing to be an electrician.

I have the right to bear arms. That does not mean your tax money pays for my guns.
 
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Torrent of Pork

Gold Member
Aug 29, 2018
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Because the 'crony' part of crony capitalism is not a byproduct of capitalism, but a byproduct of any system. In fact, given socialism and communism fortify the connection between business and politicians, I would argue both suffer from far deeper cronyism issues.

If you are against crony capitalism [as we should be], we want to sever ties between politics and business, not empower those ties. This is why many on the right are against regulations, for example [and prefer other methods to clean up business, such as lawsuits] because they correctly recognize most regulations are being directly written by corporate lobbyists and are, in fact, creating crony capitalism and not actually regulating what they should. An easy example of this would be regulations on 'organic foods', for example, which put costly fees on getting registered so that indy farmers can not advertise their food as organic, but large corporations can easily use built in loopholes to get that label despite not being organic.

Healthcare is a mess for many reasons, but that does not mean the answer is socializing healthcare. We need to clean up the interaction between large corporate insurers, health care providers, and big pharm. That trinity, operating under a mess of bueracrasy and at cross purposes, is driving up prices. [Hospitals overcharge because they know insurers will underpay, etc.] Where insurers are not as involved [lasik is the go to example] we see competitive prices. Trump's recent move towards forcing providers to show prices is a huge step forward in this direction.

Education? Prices are high because of government. The government subsidized guaranteed loans. The obvious and direct result of that is that universities raised prices to get more of that cash. In fact, they started inventing entirely new product lines [I mean, college majors] to pull in more and more people, further raising prices. The fact is, we don't need every single person getting a college education, and the propaganda against trade jobs that became prevalent in the 80s needs to stop. We need less people going to college.

Just as importantly, we need college loans to not be guaranteed, but to adequately assess risk. A bank should not give you a $200k loan [or worse, govt give you a free ride] if your career choice is underwater basket weaving. And if they didn't, college prices would drop like a rock and loans/career choices would naturally realign. You could get an appropriate loan versus income potential if both a bank and a college thought you would make a good doctor/engineer/etc.

Socializing education is exactly the wrong direction, and would only exacerbate the situation. Imagine if these monstrous universities that already suck up cash for paper thin degrees get a guaranteed paycheck for every student on the taxpayer's dime. Disaster. Absolute disaster. Not to mention, every part of our educational system our Federal government has touched since we formed the Dept of Education in 1980 has went to shit. High school is already near worthless, why are we discussing making it an 8 year program... we need people in the workforce, not behind desks twiddling thumbs, learning some made up major until they're in their mid20s.

As for 'every American has the right to pursue'..... yes, every American has the right to prove themselves in high school as an exemplary student. If they do, colleges will accept them. If a college accepts them, and their major shows promise of allowing a student to pay back their loans, then a bank will rightly make such a loan. What every American does not have a right to is studying 'gender studies' paid for by taxes taken from another 20 year old who is apprenticing to be an electrician.

I have the right to bear arms. That does not mean your tax money pays for my guns.
Are you me?
 

Derekloffin

Member
Jun 17, 2013
601
241
555
How secure is her seat? Seems like the amazon deal alone should allow a normal dem to oust her, much less the rest of her rhetoric. I imagine a Republican has no shot but can't see why the DNC doesnt stealth back someone to boot her.

Not very secure. Not only could she probably be primaried herself, but there is good odds that her district may simply disappear as they are soon to redistribute districts and New York is one of the places that may lose a seat.
 

Cato

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,405
8,472
755
Not very secure. Not only could she probably be primaried herself, but there is good odds that her district may simply disappear as they are soon to redistribute districts and New York is one of the places that may lose a seat.

Brave people if they re-draw the electorate map to eliminate her seat.
Absolutely zero chance of angry and violent mobs showing up at peoples houses late at night.
 

Handel

Member
Jun 9, 2017
545
687
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I agree with her. There are no white democrats, only those who haven’t realized yet they are Republicans.

That’s identity politics for you.
So is she mad because all the candidates are white and old?

But for real the infighting is really entertaining to watch unfold.
She has endorsed Bernie for president, skin color isn't what matters to her quotes in this thread.
 

Jezbollah

Member
Jun 14, 2010
12,035
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AOC is Trump's best asset at the moment. Everything she says or does just puts the Democrat party in a bigger hole that they already were in.
 

Cato

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,405
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755
AOC is Trump's best asset at the moment. Everything she says or does just puts the Democrat party in a bigger hole that they already were in.

It is the-enemy-of-my-enemy.

The DNC will pick a moderate as the nominee. They will not pick Sanders or any other far crazy left candidate.

Two things can happen.

1, the DNC moderate loses against Trump.
Good news for Justice Democrats because they can now say that "the american people rejects the moderate left!"
and use it as another weapon to destroy the democratic party (which is their outspoken goal).
It is one more sledgehammer against the wall of centrist moderates.

2, the DNC democrat wins against Trump.
And Pelosi can give long speeches about how the democratic voters rejected AOC and the justice democrats.


Which outcome would AOC and the JD prefer ?
 
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HeresJohnny

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Mar 14, 2018
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She's vastly overestimating her importance and relevance in the party. A Socialist has no chance at winning a General Election. There are far more Democratic Centrists than far left wackadoos. And thank God for that.