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Apparently, Microsoft was supposed to work with Sega to add an operating system and make software for the Saturn.

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Seems like this fell through and a limited variation of this was done instead for the Dreamcast. Of course with the Xbox being planned and designed in 1998 and approved in 1999 I think MS just decided to do the minimum for the Dreamcast and never had much faith in Sega from the start.

This goes double since this deal fell through BEFORE the Saturn launch so Sega screwing up its marketshare and mindshare wasn't a factor yet. Something must have went wrong for MS to drop this deal with the Saturn. Maybe Microsoft saw the PS1 early or Microsoft had difficulty managing the inside turmoil between SOA and SOJ.

Of course the fact that the console still would have been $400 MSRP with this addition makes me wonder. Sega had reacted to the PS1 by making adjustments to the Saturn as this deal was falling through, and the price cut they had to make to compete from the original $400 lost Sega money on hardware, so if the deal did go through could they still keep the price of the Saturn below $450 as promised?

But it really does bring up the question in how much Microsoft put faith in, if any, In Sega, or they just considered it a side-deal that brought in some revenue and never really expected Sega to go anywhere after the Genesis. Dropping this deal early and then approving the Xbox before the DC worldwide release and not too long after the Japanese release is interesting.
 

SCB3

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The Dreamcast died so quickly that MS probably didn't get time to finish the OS stuff and instead put that into the Original Xbox
 
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The Dreamcast died so quickly that MS probably didn't get time to finish the OS stuff and instead put that into the Original Xbox
The Xbox was approved before the Dreamcast launched in most of its markets so I don't know about that. Also what the Xbox ended up with is different than any of the stuff MS was planning to give Sega with the Saturn or the Dreamcast (win CE).
 
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Jeez Gorby, 'ya pull up some interesting info but then load it with your own personal bias and assumptive speculation where it's not needed.

Well like I said, interesting historical tidbit in all, questionably loaded opinion shoved in around it aside.

EDIT: Actually, who is the source of the info from initially? It says an individual but in the pic the person's name isn't present. I'm curious just to know who spoke out on this at the time because they may or may not have been credible.

Some wild, WILD rumors would fly around back in the day that turned out to be appropriated to completely different projects or never being true in the first place. Less "bad" rumors compared to today, because the barrier of entry was a lot higher. But is also meant it took longer for misplaced or wrong speculation to get cleared out due to limitations of print media.
 
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Kadve

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Ah, Mid-late 90s sega.

This was also around the time they set up one team to shop around the US for a hardware partnership And another team do do the same thing internally, all without telling the American team.

The rest is of course history. The American team struck a partnership with 3dfx and Motorola, the internal one struck a partnership with Hitachi and NEC. The sega management preferred the later configuration (which became the Dreamcast) and cut ties with the US companies... and was promptly blindsided when 3dfx (guess Motorola didn't care) sued them for breaching their initial contract.....
 
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Wait it's not Wednesday yet.
What?

Jeez Gorby, 'ya pull up some interesting info but then load it with your own personal bias
How is me wondering why MIcrosoft dropped the deal with the Saturn, and why they factually approved the Xbox deal before the launch of the Dreamcast in most markets a "personal bias? The troll doesn't work here.

It's a pretty clear timeline, Sega and Microsoft were gong to work on the Saturn, the deal flopped, they did some version of it with the DC at the same time as the Xbox was being worked on. Anybody would wonder the same thing about whether MS had faith in Sega if they were going to work on competition behind their backs in the same industry.

Dreamcast had a microsoft OS. It ran Windows CE.

Not really much to do with the thread but yes.
 
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Ah, Mid-late 90s sega.

This was also around the time they set up one team to shop around the US for a hardware partnership And another team do do the same thing internally, all without telling the American team.

The rest is of course history. The American team struck a partnership with 3dfx and Motorola, the internal one struck a partnership with Hitachi and NEC. The sega management preferred the later configuration (which became the Dreamcast) and cut ties with the US companies... and was promptly blindsided when 3dfx (guess Motorola didn't care) sued them for breaching their initial contract.....
I don't think the Motorola part of the contract was actually on paper, which may explain why they didn't freak out like 3DFX.
 

lostinblue

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The Dreamcast died so quickly that MS probably didn't get time to finish the OS stuff and instead put that into the Original Xbox
Nah, Xbox used the Windows NT kernel whereas Dreamcast would have never gone past Windows CE framework.

Their foundations had nothing in common.
 
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What?


How is me wondering why MIcrosoft dropped the deal with the Saturn, and why they factually approved the Xbox deal before the launch of the Dreamcast in most markets a "personal bias? The troll doesn't work here.

It's a pretty clear timeline, Sega and Microsoft were gong to work on the Saturn, the deal flopped, they did some version of it with the DC at the same time as the Xbox was being worked on. Anybody would wonder the same thing about whether MS had faith in Sega if they were going to work on competition behind their backs in the same industry.
Because your "wondering" is only looking at a VERY specific part of the market at that time and not the most obvious areas. You don't think, even for a second, that Microsoft didn't see:

-Philips failing with the CD-i
-Panasonic floundering with the 3DO
-NEC floundering with TurboGraphx and PC-FX (the latter in Japan)
-Atari, a company with name recognition at that point, failing with the Jaguar

and, I dunno, maybe took those as signs to back off from console gaming during the mid '90s to focus on the PC gaming space instead? Especially considering they were already set to make inroads with DirectX and the PC gaming scene was growing thanks to games like DOOM, Microsoft probably chose to focus on that scene and, given Sega's own internal affairs, why don't you posit that Sega of Japan likely were involved in shutting down further talks with MS for this Saturn partnership (y'know, the way SoJ shut down MULTIPLE talks that companies where Sega of America helmed the discussions, both during this period and even into Dreamcast)?

Speaking of which, you just showed even more of your own anti-Sega bias: how do you know Microsoft dropped the deal? What if Sega did instead? Considering SoJ (who held override power over final say in these kind of deals) shot down almost anything from SoA during this time period (including other potential deals driven by SoA such as the Silicon Graphics and Sega PlayStation/Sony Saturn partnership)...wouldn't that pattern tell you it's more likely Sega (via SoJ) were the ones to call off the deal with Microsoft, especially if MS, being an American company, were discussing the deal initially through Sega of America? This seems like the infinitely more logical conclusion TBH.

I strongly doubt PlayStation was a concern for Microsoft in 1993/1994; the industry at large, up until the system was officially revealed (and for some even until it was released) just saw Sony as another large consumer tech company trying to jump in, and likely failing as Panasonic/Matsushita and Philips had done or were in the process of doing. That's how the industry viewed Sony during those early years. If Microsoft saw PlayStation as something to answer to themselves, common sense would tell you that likely came around the 1998 period, when the system's success was clearly visible and Sony had proven themselves. That'd also (IIRC) coincide with Microsoft's early internal WebTV-based console prototyping that eventually lost out to the Xbox project (which Seamus Blackley was trying to push forward)

That's why your "speculation" is unwarranted; you can argue that Microsoft had the Xbox as a contingency plan in case the Dreamcast failed and that would at least make a bit more sense, but you jumped way ahead of the line with speculation where it wasn't needed. Again, digging up that piece of news (if the news discussed was focused on any substantial/credible developments happening at the time; there's no way to say that it was ever a valid rumor unless there's more corroborating article pieces speaking of similar from the time period) is appreciated, but it's unfortunately buried in a speculative opinion that reads more like loaded personal bias ignoring other, clearly larger/more impactful market developments/realities of the time.
 
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Given what a disaster Saturn was, Sega should had partnered up with anyone.

I didn't get a PS1 until a year after launch, but I remember seeing games played on them at game stores.

I still don't think there is a game on Saturn that looked at good as Wipeout 1. And Wipeout was a launch title for PS.
 
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BusierDonkey

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Dreamcast had a microsoft OS. It ran Windows CE.

The Dreamcast itself never used Windows CE as it's OS. It doesn't run a traditional OS at all. The little label on the Dreamcast was only there because Sega and Microsoft partnered during the console's development. The partnership was so that games made for Windows CE could be easily made to work on the Dreamcast in an effort to expand the system's library.


To be clear, the Dreamcast didn't run Windows CE. It never ran anything in the sense of a traditional OS, instead injecting the necessary bits when it booted up a game. What Microsoft and Sega had done was partner up to allow game developers to build titles for Windows CE that would run on the Dreamcast. The dream was real: help game developers create titles for PC and console using Windows-based tools. Any of that sound familiar?
 

Craig of War

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I thought for sure MS is gone to buy Sega after the Dreamcast failed and they file for bankrupt i mean at the time Sega was worth like 150 million lol would have been way cheaper than trying to buy Sega now which is gone to cost 4-5 billion easily.
 

Shmunter

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Ms put Windows ce on Dreamcast. Devs quickly ditched it. Only a handful of games ran under the o/s.
 

Excess

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The Dreamcast itself never used Windows CE as it's OS. It doesn't run a traditional OS at all. The little label on the Dreamcast was only there because Sega and Microsoft partnered during the console's development. The partnership was so that games made for Windows CE could be easily made to work on the Dreamcast in an effort to expand the system's library.
And apparently, barely any developers used it.

 

Havoc2049

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Poor Starlancer, I wish the game would get a re release it was a fun game.

I actually played the online for the 30 days there were actually people online.
Same here. Phantasy Star Online and Starlancer were my go to games for online multi-player on the Dreamcast. Starlancer was an excellent game IMO. I even bought that Panther flight stick with the cool blue trackball on it that lit up. It would have been nice if Microsoft could have kept the series going and brought the series over to Xbox Live.
 

wipeout364

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The Dreamcast itself never used Windows CE as it's OS. It doesn't run a traditional OS at all. The little label on the Dreamcast was only there because Sega and Microsoft partnered during the console's development. The partnership was so that games made for Windows CE could be easily made to work on the Dreamcast in an effort to expand the system's library.

I thought windows ce was on the GD rom and essentially booted the system into windows CE. Over 50 games were built in windows ce for Dreamcast and were running in windows ce so I don’t see how you can say it wasn’t part of the OS. It’s like saying if you run you windows off a usb stick your pc is not really running windows.
 
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Because your "wondering" is only looking at a VERY specific part of the market at that time and not the most obvious areas. You don't think, even for a second, that Microsoft didn't see:

-Philips failing with the CD-i
-Panasonic floundering with the 3DO
-NEC floundering with TurboGraphx and PC-FX (the latter in Japan)
-Atari, a company with name recognition at that point, failing with the Jaguar
Sega fanboys always changing reality to avoid the blunt truth of the matter.

The Cd-i was a media format, it was not a gaming device (which was first to create a full online ecosystem predating the dreamcast so if MS did care about them they clearly would have reacted earlier in 1996.)

3DO would literally be a new console.

Why would MS look at something that would have been dead in NA 2 years before and likely may not even have known it existed?

Atari wouldn't even have launched the Jaguar nation wide yet (which was 1994, 1993 was a market test where they sold all their produced units)

The problem here is your fanboyism isn't paying attention tot he timeframe, this is BEFORE the Saturn launched early on before even the specs released and the PSX last second change. It is clear based on this that something caused the deal to break, and since the Dreamcast had Sega partner with Microsoft it's clear that Microsoft still though there was some viability in dealing with Sega, but at the same time as that they still had the Xbox in the background and were going to launch it, it was not a safety net incase the DC exploded, a legend spread by the fanbois.

The only logical conclusion is that Microsoft, despite find a partnership viable, did not have enough faith for a real full-on partnership with Sega. In addition the other part of the reasoning behind approving that internals teams Xbox project was because of Sony domination so it would also be logical to assume that MS never saw Sega as a way to deal with that.

As for the Saturn deal, Microsoft wasn't even interested in purchasing Sega at the time, but in just under two years they were interested in buying Nintendo to expand their gaming arms and try to block Sony before there was even an approved greenlight to go forward with the consoles, just some prototypes some inside team was fiddling around.

Don't forget Microsoft was in talks about buying Sega and adding BC to Xbox for the Dreamcast not long before the production and MS shot both down.
 
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Sega fanboys always changing reality to avoid the blunt truth of the matter.

The only thing blunt here is your lack of education on the topic. Wipe the condensation off the goggles sometime ;)

The Cd-i was a media format, it was not a gaming device (which was first to create a full online ecosystem predating the dreamcast so if MS did care about them they clearly would have reacted earlier in 1996.)

Doesn't matter; they pivoted it as a gaming platform post-launch after initial tepid sales. Also massive L on your part trying to jockey-position CD-i's "ful online ecosystem" (in this context what does that even mean, given it lacked amenities later online ecosystems would feature) as something of having any notable industry impact.

Essentially it was a footnote; things like Xband, Sega Channel, Netlink and Yazore...hell, even the online connectivity of the Apple Pippin, had more of an impact on the then-future of online gaming Microsoft would later push with Xbox Live, than anything CD-i did on that note.

3DO would literally be a new console.

...and? It had a massive marketing push, from the biggest 3rd-party publisher in the industry at that note who had tons of rapport among PC and console gamers, ran by a man who launched said publisher to success. Doesn't change what happened.

Why would MS look at something that would have been dead in NA 2 years before and likely may not even have known it existed?

Maybe because they would've known it existed as it was flippin' NEC (one of if not the most prominent Japanese electronics companies of the 1980's/early 1990s'), and already had presence in Japan themselves through Windows and DOS, both of which found their way on...NEC computers (among others, like Fujitsu) via variants...let alone devices like the MSX?

This may all be news to you but that's a you issue.
Atari wouldn't even have launched the Jaguar nation wide yet (which was 1994, 1993 was a market test where they sold all their produced units)

Doesn't matter; you're being very limited in how these corporations would be viewing and knowing of this stuff. Who do you think were manufacturing the Jaguars? It was IBM. Who were one of the major tech companies IBM had relations with at the time? Microsoft. People at these companies...know other people at the other companies. They "talk". So they are at least somewhat cognizant of certain developments that might be happening, even if they don't have the details.

1993 was not their market test, dude. That was their launch year; they always intended a 1993 launch, that is one of the reasons the Panther was cancelled. They couldn't reach promised numbers due to IBM, Atari's manufacturing partner for the Jaguar. But maybe this is also news to you as well...

The problem here is your fanboyism isn't paying attention tot he timeframe, this is BEFORE the Saturn launched early on before even the specs released and the PSX last second change. It is clear based on this that something caused the deal to break, and since the Dreamcast had Sega partner with Microsoft it's clear that Microsoft still though there was some viability in dealing with Sega, but at the same time as that they still had the Xbox in the background and were going to launch it, it was not a safety net incase the DC exploded, a legend spread by the fanbois.

Welp, at least we can see your true colors on these type of topics now. I gave the benefit of the doubt before but I'm done with that, it is what it is. Going by how many details I had to correct on your end above, you're in no position to try calling anyone else as being unaware of the full timeline, because at least other people ITT (to my knowledge) haven't been doing Olympian-level mental gymnastics to distort details to pin a point of blame on a certain thing or company just to feed some uncontrollable bias.

Anyway...maybe your memory is foggy, because I gave a clear-cut reasoning as to what most likely caused that Microsoft/Saturn deal (if it was every real btw; you never once question the validity of that rumored printing but cannot pull up even a second case of that rumor surfacing from a different publication of the similar time period. There's this thing called "cross-referencing", might want to try it sometime ;) ): Sega of Japan. Let's try following the pattern, shall we?

SoA tries netting deal with Silicon Graphics: SoJ rejects. SoA tries netting deal with Sony (they previously agreed to work with Sony of America on Sega/Mega CD support): SoJ rejects. SoA tries getting new Eternal Champions, Streets of Rage, Vectorman made: SoJ rejects. Microsoft, an American company, most likely tries netting a deal with Saturn through Sega of America (also an American company, hence "American" in the title). Now, who d'ya think would've likely rejected this?

Not much a point touching on the Dreamcast stuff as I already did so in the last post, and honestly, you don't seem either willing or able to comprehend the logical outcome of this Microsoft OS/Saturn deal (which, again, is a rumor that AFAIK has a single source from some obscure article and may not have even been an accurate rumor, since we have no other proof of this speculation proliferating with other publications during the period).

The only logical conclusion is that Microsoft, despite find a partnership viable, did not have enough faith for a real full-on partnership with Sega. In addition the other part of the reasoning behind approving that internals teams Xbox project was because of Sony domination so it would also be logical to assume that MS never saw Sega as a way to deal with that.

What's any of this got to do with the article clipping you posted in the OP? Did you even read my post on this particular talking point regarding Dreamcast? If you did you'd see I had some similar sentiments but at least I can express mine with some neutrality.
As for the Saturn deal, Microsoft wasn't even interested in purchasing Sega at the time, but in just under two years they were interested in buying Nintendo to expand their gaming arms and try to block Sony before there was even an approved greenlight to go forward with the consoles, just some prototypes some inside team was fiddling around.

Don't forget Microsoft was in talks about buying Sega and adding BC to Xbox for the Dreamcast not long before the production and MS shot both down.

Wow, way to strawman, this is extremely poor logic & reasoning on your part. I know exactly why you mentioned that first sentence (because you are reading like a simple book at this point): you just want to insinuate a quality valuation between those companies to Microsoft's acquisition desires and, going by some of your previous comments, this is probably a quality valuation that isn't merely business-related but also (erroneously) tied to software quality, knowing you. This is the kind of thing I refer to when speaking on your tendencies as displayed in the OP, it's even led to you drawing illogical strawman conclusions.

If you're gonna refer to MS not adding the BC or purchasing Sega at that time, you should at the very least go into the reasons why but...maybe this is yet more knowledge that escapes you? Sega and Microsoft had terms for the BC that could not find a mutual agreement. The acquisition of Sega did not occur because they received a large cash investment allowing them to stay independent, and board members at the company wanted them to go 3rd-party. That...kind of would've been defeated if they got locked into Microsoft as a 1P dev/pub.

Yeah...I think we're done here. I've nothing more to say to you on this.
 
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The only thing blunt here is your lack of education on the topic. Wipe the condensation off the goggles sometime ;)
Everything your wrote even you said you aren't sure it actually happened so there's nothing to educate on, you're just projecting your delusion, I mean look at this:

and? It had a massive marketing push, from the biggest 3rd-party publisher in the industry
Yes it matters because it was a new machine, so there was nothing to "look at" especially since that this deal broke BEFORE Sega even launched the Saturn in Japan. You can't possibly be dumb enough to believe MS backed out because they may have "looked at the 3DO" which completely ignores the partnership happening to a lesser extent with the Dreamcast not long after so you're clearly nuts.

What's worse is for this poor argument, to work you would have to assume MS broke the deal, which is funny because when I pointed out the likelyhood of that you said I was bias, zero consistency.. Here's another example:

Maybe because they would've known it existed as it was flippin' NEC (one of if not the most prominent Japanese electronics companies of the 1980's/early 1990s'),
That doesn't mean they knew what the Turbografx-16, and since they were partnering with Sega likely on the Genesis success with the Saturn, this statement doesn't even make fucking sense. Why would they be "scared" and close the deal because they "looked" at the turbografx16 failing outside japan? (and barely make a dent there after the first few years of momentum they cut off) when the Genesis was a success and they were partnering with the Genesis manufacturer?

You don't even have an argument you're basically saying Microsoft was scared of some random unrelated or dead systems, or systems they likely didn't know about or were struggling, and that's why they pulled, when they went to Sega because of the success of their last consoles in the first place which is why they even considered a deal with Sega for the Saturn in the first place. Why would they pull out a Sega deal because of NEC or Philips which would still run for another 4 years and was slightly picking up some very minimal steam at this point? You're so blind you're forgetting the consoles they were looking at in the first place was the Genesis. Durpy durp.

Also you're ignorance of the CD-i's online ecosystem is noted, but wrong, as they had several features from tiered memberships, DLC, browsing, connected productivity, E-mail, online gaming, feature download, and more. They had the first, doesn't matter what other irrelevant opinions you have about what should count or not the objective fact is they were first, and that's it. No further comment is needed.

It's clear you are just delusional Sega fan so it's ok. I mean the fact you accused me of Bias for thinking MS broke the deal and then your own primary argument involves believing they broke the deal already shows you're a lost cause.
 
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Drew1440

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Didn't Sega already had a high level 3D API for their Saturn console? Forgot what it was called but it was used for a few arcade to Saturn titles.
 
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OP has been ruining the Saturn 3D games thread, and creating other topics to shit on SEGA.
This topic has nothing do to with Shitting on Sega, and I didn't start the argument in that thread, but when you create your own reality you believe stuff like this. What's Ironically is you're here doing exactly what you're accusing me of but you haven't figured that out yet, seems to be a mental lapse. Instead of false accusations maybe you should actually read what's in the OP?
 

ManaByte

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Anyway...maybe your memory is foggy, because I gave a clear-cut reasoning as to what most likely caused that Microsoft/Saturn deal (if it was every real btw; you never once question the validity of that rumored printing but cannot pull up even a second case of that rumor surfacing from a different publication of the similar time period. There's this thing called "cross-referencing", might want to try it sometime ;) ): Sega of Japan. Let's try following the pattern, shall we?

The SEGA/MS deal for the Saturn was real, but it wasn't for an OS. MS just worked on the software interface for the CDROM drive.
 
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This would've been awesome.
Possibly, but then the good games that were exclusive to PS2/GC likely never would have released. I mean not all were good but the ones that people cared about likely would have never com out outside a select few like the Sonic remakes and VF4. Outside of that MS likely would have restricted the releases since many of the cult favorites didn't really do that well.
 

Esppiral

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it didn't run WIndows CE, windows CE was an API that was supposed to make ports of PC games to the Dreamcast easier. the "os" was on the Disc of the games that used it (which weren't many) not on the console
Also games that used WinCe ran and looked like ass.
 
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OP has been ruining the Saturn 3D games thread, and creating other topics to shit on SEGA. I think we get the point. Not sure what SEGA has done to you in the past, but you should maybe give it a rest.

I'm done talking with them; when several people notice a pattern in posting behavior and make note of it, but the person referenced in question is too dense to be humble and do a little look at themselves to see what they're doing, then they're a lost cause. Y'all can have fun with that but I've said my part on their ignorance xD.

The SEGA/MS deal for the Saturn was real, but it wasn't for an OS. MS just worked on the software interface for the CDROM drive.

This sounds like it makes more sense, but OP made it sound like something very different. A single clipping from an obscure print page wasn't doing them many favors.


They got ASCII to do it instead.

Yeah, see now we're finally getting somewhere ITT. I can see MS and Sega trying something for CD-ROM drive interface (MS actually made one of the first CD-ROM drive interface software packages to drive CD-ROM adoption in the '80s/early '90s, I think LGR did a video on it a bit recently for the Hitachi CDR-1503S CD-ROM drive (1987)), but for whatever reason (likely Sega of Japan), this was dropped and they turned to ASCII instead.
 
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Can't respond because above poster knows they are wrong and inconsistent, which is why they accused bias of one thing and then did the same thing back, Poor fella, gotta refer to me without name like a 1st grader.
 

ManaByte

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This sounds like it makes more sense, but OP made it sound like something very different. A single clipping from an obscure print page wasn't doing them many favors.

That looks like it's from the initial leak of the "deal". SEGA was the one trumpeting it because it gave their stock price a nice little boost, but MS wasn't saying anything about it. That went on for about a year and when all the dust settled, it just turned out to be some software for the CDROM controller and not an OS.
 
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Two hits for each it seems on this one, of course the "other guy" won't actually admit he got hit twice as well.

That looks like it's from the initial leak of the "deal". SEGA was the one trumpeting it because it gave their stock price a nice little boost, but MS wasn't saying anything about it. That went on for about a year and when all the dust settled, it just turned out to be some software for the CDROM controller and not an OS.
Assuming this is the case seems Sega's PR move still worked years later.
 
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That looks like it's from the initial leak of the "deal". SEGA was the one trumpeting it because it gave their stock price a nice little boost, but MS wasn't saying anything about it. That went on for about a year and when all the dust settled, it just turned out to be some software for the CDROM controller and not an OS.

Interesting. I'd like to know where it originated; today for example there's always talks of certain companies looking into certain other companies and the ones that might be getting some investment/acquisition etc. letting the news get out to bump up stock values. We saw it recently with the Discord stuff.

Sometimes though that's literally the only reason it's done, and actual intentions behind the scenes could be radically different. With a company like Sega during that time period this was especially true considering how much the American and Japanese branches were being petty and arguing with one another (in SoJ's case, mainly due to ego).
 
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Knock off the personal insults or your time here will be short.
You're constantly shit posting console war nonsense, and you belittle and talk down to people as if they are ignorant fanboys after they point out how you are wrong.

So, who's digging the hole here?
That's not even what was in the post your referring to, you're just an idiot pretending to be some sane party shove off, troll elsewhere.

Dumb ass is in a thread about a Microsoft partnership rumor that technically everyone in the thread was wrong in except one guy, has nothing to do with console wars, what a dumbazz.