-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Apparently Splatoon 2 tickrate is only 16Hz
- Thread starter deoee
- Start date
Revolutionary
Member
wat
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
It is mind blowing to see how much people feel like they have to defend everything about something they like. I fucking love S2, but this is rediculous. Not "noticing" it doesn't matter. If you have played the game, you have been effected by it. That is a fact.
Educate yourself with google and wiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netcode
Tick rate is the frequency with which the server updates the game state. This is measured in Hertz. When a server has a tick rate of 64, it means that it is capable of sending packets to clients at most 64 times per second. These packets contain updates to the game state, including things like player and object locations. The length of a tick is just its duration in milliseconds. For example, 64 tick would be 15.6ms, 20 tick would be 50ms, 10 tick 100ms, etc.
I'm not saying low tick rates don't help with double splats, but double splats are perfectly normal because the ink takes time to travel, unlike teleporting bullets. I played quite a few rounds in LAN and had double splats too.
But yeah, just because I never had a problem or noticed it doesn't mean it's not there, even if it isn't noticeable for most people. It does seem terribly low compared to other shooters.
Retro Edge
Member
Tickrate matters a lot in terms of gameplay...
That said it has become a sort of "blame everything that goes wrong in my game, regardless of how much at fault I was, on tickrate". It gets conflated with latency, hit registration, all the time.
In the other thread on this someone posted a video of a guy who was behind cover for about a second then getting sniped by someone shooting at where he was 1 second ago. That's not tickrate related. That's latency.
Increasing the tickrate can reduce the effects of latency, but going from 20hz to 60hz doesn't mean you're suddenly going to have 3x less latency, for example. It's more that your late reports to the server are going to be a bit more precise.
Tickrate mostly affects high-impact, high-speed things. Things like aiming a headshot with an AK in Counter Strike. You might have missed by a pixel because your opponent's position was 1 tick out of place so to speak, and your shot landed just off it as a result.
It has more of an effect on these things in Splatoon than some other games (like Overwatch) because as far as I can tell, the game checks in with the server/host for confirmation rather than using an overwatch style favour-the-shooter system. People often wrongly blamed tickrate for getting bullshit hooked by roadhog, but it wasn't quite like that. The server knows you moved round the corner, but because the other guy had a 150ms ping the server favours the version he saw where you weren't around the corner. What tickrate does affect in Overwatch is something like getting killed by a Hanzo arrow when you're tracer because your dodge fell between ticks and your hitbox moved a tick too late to avoid the shot. With a higher tickrate, you might have survived.
Splatoon's system probably makes the effects more pronounced, but perhaps not how you'd expect. It'll affect stuff like splatterscopes a lot, with their fast projectile and instant kill on full charge. It'll definitely affect the dodges on the dualies. But a higher tickrate won't fix a poor quality connection. The shooters aren't going to be as affected by this as by and large they fire slower than the tickrate.
I see it affecting high level play a lot where the splatterscopes and the likes are more common. For casual and lower rank play... not so much.
That said it has become a sort of "blame everything that goes wrong in my game, regardless of how much at fault I was, on tickrate". It gets conflated with latency, hit registration, all the time.
In the other thread on this someone posted a video of a guy who was behind cover for about a second then getting sniped by someone shooting at where he was 1 second ago. That's not tickrate related. That's latency.
Increasing the tickrate can reduce the effects of latency, but going from 20hz to 60hz doesn't mean you're suddenly going to have 3x less latency, for example. It's more that your late reports to the server are going to be a bit more precise.
Tickrate mostly affects high-impact, high-speed things. Things like aiming a headshot with an AK in Counter Strike. You might have missed by a pixel because your opponent's position was 1 tick out of place so to speak, and your shot landed just off it as a result.
It has more of an effect on these things in Splatoon than some other games (like Overwatch) because as far as I can tell, the game checks in with the server/host for confirmation rather than using an overwatch style favour-the-shooter system. People often wrongly blamed tickrate for getting bullshit hooked by roadhog, but it wasn't quite like that. The server knows you moved round the corner, but because the other guy had a 150ms ping the server favours the version he saw where you weren't around the corner. What tickrate does affect in Overwatch is something like getting killed by a Hanzo arrow when you're tracer because your dodge fell between ticks and your hitbox moved a tick too late to avoid the shot. With a higher tickrate, you might have survived.
Splatoon's system probably makes the effects more pronounced, but perhaps not how you'd expect. It'll affect stuff like splatterscopes a lot, with their fast projectile and instant kill on full charge. It'll definitely affect the dodges on the dualies. But a higher tickrate won't fix a poor quality connection. The shooters aren't going to be as affected by this as by and large they fire slower than the tickrate.
I see it affecting high level play a lot where the splatterscopes and the likes are more common. For casual and lower rank play... not so much.
Peterthumpa
Member
Nintendo is doomed.
Fucking lol, I foresee people stoping playing the damn game because of this.
Fucking lol, I foresee people stoping playing the damn game because of this.
It's odd because I found the kind of strange behaviour a low tickrate creates (kills being registered late, dying in weird situations/spots) to be very prevalent for me in Splatoon 1, but I've experienced significantly less of it in Splatoon 2 so far, despite it being even lower. So I find this a bit surprising, tbh. I guess I should just pertain it to being lucky enough not to notice or encounter too much of it yet.
Ah, it was in this OP as well.
This is literally nothing at all to do with tickrate. This is latency.
It's a shame the online gaming community has picked up on tickrate in the last few years, because it's continually getting conflated with other issues that have nothing to do with tickrate.
Kikorin
Member
Probably not hardcore enough for this, I play pretty casual just for fun, but I understand can be a problem for who want a competitive experience.
MarkMclovin
Member
It's hardly a twitchy tactical shooter..
Does it need to be high?
Does it need to be high?
And players with high latency are far more disruptive on a server with a very poor tick rate.
It doesn't need to be 64 tick or anything, but it does have an effect on the sniper-type weapons (which can be very twitch) and dualie dodges (think tracer's dash in overwatch).
It is strange. I love Nintendo, they're one of my 2 favorite video game developers (the other being Valve) but I have no problems criticizing the companies and products that I love. I want to see those companies and products get better. Blindly defending the bad decision of a company or product you like is just silly.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
No, it's more important than people think. It determines the game you're actually playing. The game you "see" is just interpolated.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think both are intertwined no?
Goldfishking
Member
Lol, some people in this thread.
OP was just linking to an article and discussing what a bad tickrate is. Just because it's ok for you doesn't mean its ok for everyone else and a potential competitive scene.
Nintendo fans are quickly becoming a hateful and passive-agressive bunch, despite the company they support being the complete opposite.
OP was just linking to an article and discussing what a bad tickrate is. Just because it's ok for you doesn't mean its ok for everyone else and a potential competitive scene.
Nintendo fans are quickly becoming a hateful and passive-agressive bunch, despite the company they support being the complete opposite.
LordOcidax
Member
Some people are calling ignorant to others because doesn't have any issue with this...OK👀.. Actually Splatoon 2 is one of the best online experiences i had in a few years.
I'm not an expert in Splatoon 2 (I've played it for maybe 15 hours) but I don't think so.
A lower tickrate increases latency in the synchronization of the game simulation between the server and the clients with the addition of other latency impacts like network "lag" you only add issues on one another and you will get these things or things like it.
To me both this and the normal measures network latency are both intertwined into one another as one affect the other and both being out of wack affect the game in a big way, at all levels.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Uh, no.
Nope.
Ultravi0lence
Member
I don't think anyone in this thread has personally had a go at Nintendo yet a lot of posters are defending them...what?
sixteen-bit
Member
I wonder how S1 diehards are taking this news.
Do you know if Nintendo can do separate modes with different tick rates?
It was happening non stop playing with japanese, which were the majority of the high rank players pool. Truly rage inducing.
Here the thing where I see it could be better, is as a sniper, when trying to trick an opponent in close quarter, moving around a block, swimming on its sides etc..., I need all the precision I can get to survive in this extremely tight space.
?????
Tickrate is incredibly important. Sometimes the match that you see is different from what's actually going on, so it looks like the game is running flawlessly when it's not
Saint Gregory
Member
I've had that happen to me when up against chargers and .52/.96 players. I thought it was just my wireless, I can't believe that Nintendo actually made the tick rate worse for this game :/
They can make two version of a server/map with different tickrates for differnt modes, i see no hindereance for that, at least in the realms of technology
Goldfishking
Member
No one has called anyone ignorant in this thread? In fact you have plenty of people saying the opposite.
lmao, the game is fun.... who cares. Now when I play Destiny and there are players ice skating around the level I get mad and want Bungie to do something about it, but I've never felt someone else had an advantage in multiplayer in Splatoon 2. And I could give a rats if this becomes an eSport game or not, it's Nintendo.
I can have a go at Nintendo right now cause this thread has already hit peak defense force.
Its ok when Nintendo does it.
Oh no wait here, literally its ok when they do it.
Thanks for the response.
Wouldn't people not knowing this is an issue literally be ignorance?
LordOcidax
Member
It's the Metroid: Samus Returns thread all over again, where the defense is far more hyperbolic and inflammatory than the opposition it accuses the same of :/
Gravy Boat
Member
This is why Nintendo fans get a bad rap. "Who cares", as long as it's made by Nintendo. We expect more from other games, but Nintendo gets a pass.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Of course? It's just a server refresh rate essentially. It would be a really stupid thing to do though. Just up the tick rate all together.
Again, that clip is nothing to do with tickrate. The player was behind the wall for like, 16 ticks at least. Tickrate affects marginal high impact events.
If you take a 16 tick situation like this, and you ran around a corner to escape an enemy, lets say at the beginning of your tick you were still moving round the corner, then at the end of the tick, you were fully behind the corner. The other player fires at the end of the tick (when you're in cover on your screen). Since the data hasn't been sent to the server yet, as far as that shot is concerned, you're still not fully behind the corner as your position didn't get updated to reflect that before your opponent fired.
If you doubled the tickrate, your position gets updated before the opponent fires and you survive.
Tickrate affects marginal situations, not a literal entire second of latency/packet loss or whatever like in that clip. You would literally need to lower the tickrate to like, 1 tick per second before you can blame that clip on tickrate.
Low tickrate sucks in many situations but people need to stop blaming things that are nothing to do with tickrate on tickrate.
Oh it sure is
This. Arms and now Splatoon are being judged on their merits as esports. Who cares? They're fun multiplayer experiences that are not meant to be taken that seriously. What's next? Dissecting the internals of Mario Kart?
Gravy Boat
Member
Don't they both have ranked, competitive modes? Of course they're meant to be taken seriously. At least as seriously as any other game. Nintendo included eSports style arenas in their marketing for the Switch. They care.