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[iconmaster]

Er, wait, what?

Guns are designed to hurt living beings. You know, violence. Just because you can plink paper targets with them doesn't change what they're designed for. You're not using them to open soup cans or fix your car.

Are you including hunting under the heading of "violence"? You're technically correct, but in the context I think we're clearly talking about human violence.

Don't be so quick to dismiss target shooting. It's quite popular. I've done skeet shooting myself.

 

[DanielsM]

Are you including hunting under the heading of "violence"? You're technically correct, but in the context I think we're clearly talking about human violence.

Don't be so quick to dismiss target shooting. It's quite popular. I've done skeet shooting myself.

Probably 95%+ (guessing) of the guns in the U.S. sit and gather dust in a draw or closet while the owner hopes he/she never has to fire it.

 

[lukilladog]

The difference is that some of those things are designed as weapons. Others are either not or makeshift weapons in a pinch. I don't even think Walmart should stop selling guns or even hide them but this argument that "guns are tools, not weapons" is just silly and as I've said before, reeks of bad faith argumentation.

Now to my understanding Walmart only sells hunting guns, like single shot rifles & shotguns. They don't sell ARs or automatic weapons and they actually stopped selling handguns in response to another mass shooting. In that regard Walmart are actually being a good faith actor. A lot of people are also overlooking the fact that the leaked document actually says that they should also stop showing hunting videos (guns in action), just like video game footage.

They aren't not selling violent video games, they're just hiding footage of them.
They aren't not selling gun, they're just hiding footage of them.

This seems fair to me. Any other actions in regards to guns needs to be done on a political level, it's not Walmart's debate and they don't really need to do anything more than what they already have done.

Call them whatever you want, as long as they don´t have a clock and the gun starts firing by itself they lack implicit violence.

 

[48086]

Arguably, yes. Here in Ontario you only see very limited sales of beer in non-dedicated stores, and it's usually the alcohol-free stuff. And cigarettes tend to be sold only in very narrow circumstances -- you usually have to go to a counter and ask for them.

The point is that guns aren't really treated with enough gravity in the US. You can buy a shotgun at the same place you get your groceries and kids' toys... doesn't that sound messed up to you?

That's great, I didn't know that about Canada, I assume it's the same all of the country. The reason I asked is because so many people are making a big deal about gun sales when many more people die from alcohol/tobacco than homicides.

Personally, I think Walmart selling guns is fine because they sell sporting equipment. I can see how people wouldn't think differently than me though, and I certainly wouldn't mind if Walmart didn't sell guns. Also, I would disagree, I think guns are certainly treated with enough gravity in the US. I think other things such as mental illness, SSRIs (antidepressant drugs), pharmaceuticals, broken families, and the impact of media on young minds isn't treated with enough gravity in the US. Ironically enough, I absolutely believe that if those things were treated with more gravity than homicides would lessen.

Also, thanks for taking the time to give a thoughtful reply to my question!

 

[Aurelian]

Gun is just a gun. Its neither violent or non-violent, it can be used for violence just like basically anything else but its not violent by sitting on a shelf. A movie or game, or display can show violence or acts of violence, a gun isn't really that unless its shown in an act.

Its not really that difficult.

Er, no. Guns are designed to inflict violence. Games and movies are not, unless you play Call of Duty by hitting people with the game box. It's ridiculous to suggest that a gun is just a hunk of metal with no specified purpose or differing hazards compared to other objects.

By your logic, we should sell cigarettes on the same shelves as candy in the convenience store. After all, cigarettes are just tobacco sticks wrapped in paper... surely some people will only use them to prop up tables, right? Because they couldn't possibly be designed for a primary purpose that makes people sick.

 

[Aurelian]

That's great, I didn't know that about Canada, I assume it's the same all of the country. The reason I asked is because so many people are making a big deal about gun sales when many more people die from alcohol/tobacco than homicides.

Personally, I think Walmart selling guns is fine because they sell sporting equipment. I can see how people wouldn't think differently than me though, and I certainly wouldn't mind if Walmart didn't sell guns. Also, I would disagree, I think guns are certainly treated with enough gravity in the US. I think other things such as mental illness, SSRIs (antidepressant drugs), pharmaceuticals, broken families, and the impact of media on young minds isn't treated with enough gravity in the US. Ironically enough, I absolutely believe that if those things were treated with more gravity than homicides would lessen.

Also, thanks for taking the time to give a thoughtful reply to my question!

Welcome!

There are some variations from province to province. Alberta is basically Canada's equivalent to Texas and has highly privatized alcohol sales. Quebec is a bit looser as well -- I can go to a dépanneur (basically, convenience store) there and pick up some beer, though you have to go to official stores to buy high-alcohol drinks.

The problem, as I see it, is that Americans have a distorted view of what appropriate gravity is. In many other countries, buying a gun is considered a serious, deliberate act that carries a tremendous burden of care; you have to go out of your way to get one, and acknowledge the risks and responsibilities. I can't help but think the US would be at least slightly safer if you had to go to guns-only stores.

I do think there are factors that need more serious treatment, although media isn't really one of them. The more credible studies to date don't show a correlation between violent media and real-world violence. I should make it clear, though, that I see changes to gun culture in the US as just one part of a larger strategy.

 

[DanielsM]

Er, no. Guns are designed to inflict violence. Games and movies are not, unless you play Call of Duty by hitting people with the game box. It's ridiculous to suggest that a gun is just a hunk of metal with no specified purpose or differing hazards compared to other objects.

By your logic, we should sell cigarettes on the same shelves as candy in the convenience store. After all, cigarettes are just tobacco sticks wrapped in paper... surely some people will only use them to prop up tables, right? Because they couldn't possibly be designed for a primary purpose that makes people sick.

By what logic? I said a gun is neither violent or non-violent, a gun on a shelf is no different than than a knife sitting on a shelf or a hammer, etc. They don't want to show or minimize the showing of acts of violence whether in print, video, etc. A gun is not an act. (assuming all this is true)

I could see someone saying they are hypocrites, if they said video game violence is horrible yet sell violent video games but that hasn't happened. I have no idea what you are trying to say to be honest.

we should sell cigarettes on the same shelves as candy in the convenience store

Many stores do (although the cigarettes are usually behind the counter), its really up to them.

It just sounds like they are trying cut down on M-rated media running in the stores. Not sure what the issue is.

 

[Zog]

Arguably, yes. Here in Ontario you only see very limited sales of beer in non-dedicated stores, and it's usually the alcohol-free stuff. And cigarettes tend to be sold only in very narrow circumstances -- you usually have to go to a counter and ask for them.

The point is that guns aren't really treated with enough gravity in the US. You can buy a shotgun at the same place you get your groceries and kids' toys... doesn't that sound messed up to you?

No. You can also get your oil changed there.

 

[Aurelian]

Are you including hunting under the heading of "violence"? You're technically correct, but in the context I think we're clearly talking about human violence.

Don't be so quick to dismiss target shooting. It's quite popular. I've done skeet shooting myself.

Yes, but at the same time, there aren't really many guns designed just for hunting. And any item that's designed as a weapon has to be treated with caution as a matter of course.

I'm not dismissing target shooting, really, I'm just noting that guns by origin are not meant for shooting clay discs, paper or tin cans. Even BB and pellet guns tend to be regulated and treated differently than other items in a store.

 

[Ceadeus]

Who buys its video game at Wal-Mart?!

 

[Petrae]

Who buys its video game at Wal-Mart?

Walmart has recently started selling first-party Switch games (and some other games) at $10 less than MSRP in store. That’s a significant discount, especially for Nintendo games that rarely go on sale, and a solid reason to shop there.

 

[Ceadeus]

Walmart has recently started selling first-party Switch games (and some other games) at $10 less than MSRP in store. That’s a significant discount, especially for Nintendo games that rarely go on sale, and a solid reason to shop there.

That's a good reason! But here in Canada we try to buy locally and not from any USA . Simply because we try to make our own companies doing well.

 

[iconmaster]

Btw, Wal-Mart is apparently more restrictive than many stores on background checks -- and more restrictive than the law requires.

Current federal guidelines offer dealers a degree of discretion in the small percentage of cases where background checks don’t clear within two hours and are placed under review, after which many retailers will opt to proceed with the sale even if an approval or denial hasn’t been issued when the three-day mark passes. Walmart’s own background check policies have surpassed federal requirements since 2002, when the company decided that it would no longer sell guns to customers without a completed approval from NICS.

In 2008, the company adopted even more rigorous standards by implementing a 10-point code of conduct as part of a partnership with the gun safety group Mayors Against Illegal Guns. In addition to refusing default proceed sales, Walmart agreed to videotape all firearm transactions, require background checks for all employees handling or selling guns, and create a system to trace guns sold by the company that are later linked to crimes, among other measures.

 

[Gamezone]

In America you can buy guns at Walmart. In Norway (my country) guns aren't even carried by the police. If it's an emergency they have permission to get it from their cars, but it's usually locked away. The idea is that if the police aren't armed, the criminals won't arm themself either, and we fire one or two bullets a year.

 

[lukilladog]

In America you can buy guns at Walmart. In Norway (my country) guns aren't even carried by the police. If it's an emergency they have permission to get it from their cars, but it's usually locked away. The idea is that if the police aren't armed, the criminals won't arm themself either, and we fire one or two bullets a year.

But your crime rate per 1000 seems to be 76% higher than USA, so you are trading less deaths for more crime.

 

[DanielsM]

In America you can buy guns at Walmart. In Norway (my country) guns aren't even carried by the police. If it's an emergency they have permission to get it from their cars, but it's usually locked away. The idea is that if the police aren't armed, the criminals won't arm themself either, and we fire one or two bullets a year.

Yeah, you have drastically less killers period. Meaning, more people get killed without a gun in the District of Columbia per year than all homicides in Norway on any particular year. Places like Wyoming have tons of guns, like 1 out of 2 people have guns (it might be the highest ratio in the world) yet homicide rate are fairly low even by Norway standards.

Even, if no private citizen had guns in the U.S., a cop would have to be quite insane to deal with some of these people and areas without one - different place, different people.

 

[lukilladog]

And Norway was or is supossed to be a very stable society I think, so it´s an apples to oranges comparison anyway.

 

[16bitwarzvet]

Update: Walmart Responds, Now Claims No Policy Banning Games Exists - IGN

Walmart's new video game policies following a mass shooting at one of its stores now extends to game sales.

www.ign.com

I can’t believe they are doing this!!

 

[captainraincoat]

As an Aussie I find it really hard to process the need to buy an assault rifle in a supermarket for home defence as in most cases you would end up in jail if you killed someone as it would be deemed as excessive force

 

[josherjohn]

Update: Walmart Responds, Now Claims No Policy Banning Games Exists - IGN

Walmart's new video game policies following a mass shooting at one of its stores now extends to game sales.

www.ign.com

I can’t believe they are doing this!!

What a bunch of shit. Fuck Walmart

 

[#Phonepunk#]

eh, they probably make way more selling guns than games anyways. the people that shop at walmart tend to be 2nd amendments people. all the elite coastals shitting on Wal Mart right now are wasting their time, they don't even go.

i dont think the answer to all our solutions is going to be waiting for Walmart to do the right thing.

 

[Petrae]

Update: Walmart Responds, Now Claims No Policy Banning Games Exists - IGN

Walmart's new video game policies following a mass shooting at one of its stores now extends to game sales.

www.ign.com

I can’t believe they are doing this!!

As usual, IGN’s hard-on for outrage got the best of them. Walmart debunked the story, IGN was fishing for (and got) their clicks by manufacturing an extrapolation, and has now “apologized for any confusion or alarm” raised.

Fucking irresponsible morons, and poster children for why “games journalism” is the biggest load of shit this side of a money tree.

 

[DanielsM]

I was looking at some information. Norway has plenty of guns, and you can own a gun, you just have to apply for hunters license or similar. (of course, some of this is guess work as far as stats)

The difference isn't the guns, its the people.... I misread what the other poster wrote. I thought he was meaning they don't have guns, when actually he is just implying they don't use them. Norway isn't Chicago.

Countries With the Highest Rate of Gun Ownership

Residents of the United States own more guns than anywhere else in the world. Discover which other 24 countries around the world have the highest rates of gun ownership.

www.worldatlas.com

15 nations with the highest gun ownership | Deseret News

Daily Utah and Salt Lake City editorials, opinion, commentary from the online home of the Deseret News.

www.deseretnews.com

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

I was looking at some information. Norway has plenty of guns, and you can own a gun, you just have to apply for hunters license or similar. (of course, some of this is guess work as far as stats)

The difference isn't the guns, its the people.... I misread what the other poster wrote. I thought he was meaning they don't have guns, when actually he is just implying they don't use them. Norway isn't Chicago.

Countries With the Highest Rate of Gun Ownership

Residents of the United States own more guns than anywhere else in the world. Discover which other 24 countries around the world have the highest rates of gun ownership.

www.worldatlas.com

15 nations with the highest gun ownership | Deseret News

Daily Utah and Salt Lake City editorials, opinion, commentary from the online home of the Deseret News.

www.deseretnews.com

Doesn't Chicago have the strictest gun laws?

 

[TGO]

I'm not sure how entertainment products work in stores but doesnt publishers pay for advertising space in stores?
Don't they have someone come out and check display modules and advertising materials are displayed correctly?

 

[Petrae]

I'm not sure how entertainment products work in stores but doesnt publishers pay for advertising space in stores?
Don't they have someone come out and check display modules and advertising materials are displayed correctly?

The likely scenario is that Walmart will compensate the publishers for lost advertising time/space and rework its agreements for the time being to remove any violent games from its ad runs. Given Walmart’s situation, with the recent spate of gun violence in and near its stores, I think publishers will deal with it for now... though, once we get to Q4, that patience may run a bit thin if Walmart doesn’t revert back to what was.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

So wait this was fake news drummed up to get outrage?

No way....

 

[Zog]

I'm not sure how entertainment products work in stores but doesnt publishers pay for advertising space in stores?
Don't they have someone come out and check display modules and advertising materials are displayed correctly?

The retailer can still change it's policy.

 

[Petrae]

So wait this was fake news drummed up to get outrage?

No way....

As the story goes, one store in the chain misinterpreted the memo to pull violent game advertising (which is a legit story) and pulled the games too. IGN went with this and ambushed Walmart for answers, rather than checking at other stores to see if this was a pattern, and the confusion happened. IGN got the vague response it wanted and, combined with the confusion at this one store, manufactured its outrage piece (which worked like a charm).

If I was Walmart’s legal team, I’d be looking into whether there are any litigation possibilities. The prospect of suing IGN for spreading false information and potentially damaging the chain’s business and reputation is certainly with investigating.

 

[Pallas]

 

[Trojita]

So wait this was fake news drummed up to get outrage?

No way....

As the story goes, one store in the chain misinterpreted the memo to pull violent game advertising (which is a legit story) and pulled the games too. IGN went with this and ambushed Walmart for answers, rather than checking at other stores to see if this was a pattern, and the confusion happened. IGN got the vague response it wanted and, combined with the confusion at this one store, manufactured its outrage piece (which worked like a charm).

If I was Walmart’s legal team, I’d be looking into whether there are any litigation possibilities. The prospect of suing IGN for spreading false information and potentially damaging the chain’s business and reputation is certainly with investigating.

Nope you guys are wrong.

A twitter user saw games shelves with no games on them in a walmart he visited. IGN asked if they are stopping sales of Video Games.

Walmart HQ responded:

IGN reached out to Walmart for confirmation, and received the following response from LeMia Jenkins, director of national media relations:

“We’ve taken this action out of respect for the incidents of the past week, and it does not reflect a long-term change in our video game assortment. We are focused on assisting our associates and their families, as well as supporting the community, as we continue a thoughtful and thorough review of our policies.”

So the only explanation is they were stupid and didn't even read IGN's question. This might be a reply that was already formulated about questions surrounding removing advertisements for violent games. If IGN's question specifically asked if games were being removed and why and Walmart's reply was "We've taken this action out of respect for the incidents of the past week" Walmart has no litigation possibilities at all.

 

[Petrae]

Nope you guys are wrong.

A twitter user saw games shelves with no games on them in a walmart he visited. IGN asked if they are stopping sales of Video Games.

Okay. Let’s be clear: ONE STORE. Out of how many locations? IGN couldn’t be bothered to do any, you know, journalism, and check to see if there were multiple occurrences before blowing its load and running to Walmart?

And we don’t know the exact verbiage of IGN’s questioning, either. Given IGN’s rush to publish this shit, it can’t be ruled out that IGN was vague or confusing with its wording.

If Walmart doesn’t sue, that’s fine with me... but IGN’s behavior here is inexcusable and is emblematic of what “games journalism” has become: an outrage farm, fueled by few facts, more conjecture, and a ton of opinion.

 

[Trojita]

Okay. Let’s be clear: ONE STORE. Out of how many locations? IGN couldn’t be bothered to do any, you know, journalism, and check to see if there were multiple occurrences before blowing its load and running to Walmart?

And we don’t know the exact verbiage of IGN’s questioning, either. Given IGN’s rush to publish this shit, it can’t be ruled out that IGN was vague or confusing with its wording.

If Walmart doesn’t sue, that’s fine with me... but IGN’s behavior here is inexcusable and is emblematic of what “games journalism” has become: an outrage farm, fueled by few facts, more conjecture, and a ton of opinion.

You said IGN AMBUSHED Walmart. They asked a question of Walmart HQ that fumbled a question. Asking Walmart to verify a national policy is the correct move, as even another nearby store might have messed up and wouldn't correlate to the whole country.

Games Journalism isn't getting fucked up for asking a question, appropriately, and reporting the information.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

The shooter shot up walmart to kill mexicans apparently. Removing a poster or cutout makes no sense. If Walmart cared they'd make it illegal to carry weapons in the store. Yes, conceal or open carry is allowed inside of Walmart. (Texas) Or get metal detectors that aren't shit. Then you have shit like this.

 

[Jonirenicus]

The shooter shot up walmart to kill mexicans apparently. Removing a poster or cutout makes no sense. If Walmart cared they'd make it illegal to carry weapons in the store. Yes, conceal or open carry is allowed inside of Walmart. (Texas) Or get metal detectors that aren't shit. Then you have shit like this.

Walmart's official policy is they bow to state law on the topic and make no policy. If a state allows open carry, they aren't going to be more strict.


I OC regularly at my local stores and have tons of gunchat with employees at 2am, it's a conversation starter more than anything, nobody cares here in PA

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

I OC regularly at my local stores and have tons of gunchat with employees at 2am, it's a conversation starter more than anything, nobody cares here in PA

What are you doing at 2am in a Walmart?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[GV82]

Fucking hell, they always blame the media like video games, & movies & music etc, I know it’s nothing new but in 2019 you think we’d be past blaming media by now, for a Start with Violence & Murdering has been around longer than those for instance Jack the Ripper was not playing Mortal Kombat then going around on Killing sprees, nor did they have T.V & Film during the Roman Times murdering WAS the entertainment, nor Ghenkis Khan, nor the Vikings.

If Media did influence a person to commit or attempt commit to crimes, it’s usually because that person is a fucking psycho anyway & they would still do it regardless of what they did or not consume.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Fucking hell, they always blame the media like video games, & movies & music etc, I know it’s nothing new but in 2019 you think we’d be past blaming media by now, for a Start with Violence & Murdering has been around longer than those for instance Jack the Ripper was not playing Mortal Kombat then going around on Killing sprees, nor did they have T.V & Film during the Roman Times murdering WAS the entertainment, nor Ghenkis Khan, nor the Vikings.

If Media did influence a person to commit or attempt commit to crimes, it’s usually because that person is a fucking psycho anyway & they would still do it regardless of what they did or not consume.

Absolutely 100% this. Playing the blame game is overall easier and more comfortable than admitting that stuff like this is part of human nature. We want something that we can control to become the issue and since we're lazy, it's usually something involving art.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

God I hate it when asshole politicians blame video games and music and movies for violence. They all look everywhere for answers except for the obvious explanation that's right in front of their fucking face. The pharmaceutical companies. You want some interesting food for thought? Every one of the school shooters over the last 20 years have been on some kind of mind altering drug prescribed by quote-unquote professionals.

Maybe if parents and guardians didn't dope their fucking kids out of their mind just because they're a little sad or a little hyper or a little introverted, we wouldn't be in this fucked up situation.

This. /Thread

 

[Shmunter]

Don’t blame them in times of Outrage, better to keep a low profile

 

[Link1110]

Haha. "specifically PLAYSTATION and Xbox units" (all caps added by me for emphasis.)

So, Sony is already censoring Games worldwide, but it wasn't enough. Guess Sony's gonna have to censor even more than they have.

Not condoning this, but nothing wrong with a little schadenfreude at the expense of those morons.

 

[Collin]

I’ve always disagreed with Colin politically but i find him incredibly insightful, articulate and well educated when it comes to video games. He’s a good guy at the end of the day, this whole stunt is bullshit.

 

[Jonirenicus]

What are you doing at 2am in a Walmart?

Shopping?

Not everyone works a 9-5 you know

 

[Kamfair55]

Doing all this to avoid the topic of domestic white terrorism before video games it was comic books,d&d,rock music and the wolf man movies as the excuse

 

[PUNKem733]

If aliens seen how we deal with gun violence, they'd nuke the planet laughing.

 

[SantaC]

unfounded violence has always existed, long before movies and videogames.

 

[Jonirenicus]

unfounded violence has always existed, long before movies and videogames.

And guns

Doing all this to avoid the topic of domestic white terrorism before video games it was comic books,d&d,rock music and the wolf man movies as the excuse

And yet even with these publicized events, the white crime rate is still drastically lower than otherwise.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

If aliens seen how we deal with gun violence, they'd nuke the planet laughing.

yes they are so superior about violence that they would... kill billions of people. /s

 

[Kamfair55]

And guns


And yet even with these publicized events, the white crime rate is still drastically lower than otherwise.

In regards to what? White domestic terrorism? Which has been going on since the days of slavery and post with mass lynchings of random black people fire bombing of houses, blowing up churches, using fertilizer bombs and our most recent shootings? All those actions from 1800s until now have been hate crimes based on unreasonable fears just like today and the perpetual falsehoods in media targeted towards white people in this country but somehow video games are the scapegoat