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Apple removes Fortnite from app store after Epic launches new payment system (Update: removed from Google Play store too)

Nicktendo_

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Isn't complaining about it and boycotting it exactly what Epic is doing right now?

Yeah, it's the lawsuit part which is dumb as fuck. They knew full well they'd be kicked off. They signed up to the rules, and now they suddenly don't agree and have a nice little propaganda video to turn the kiiiiiids against Apple.

Good luck Tencent.
 
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GiJoint

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They will make up eventually both Fortnight and Apple are two big beasts that can't ignore each other forever.
 

TriSuit666

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This. Apple keeps touting their „all digital goods consumed in-app have to be bought with out in-app payment processing if you offer them for sale in our app“ and „every developer has to abide by these rules“ bulletpoints yet they let Amazon bypass the rule in the Prime Video app (and 2 other apps I forgot the name of).

Yeah, that is weird - you can buy things in the Video app, but you can only browse the store in the Kindle app.
 
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Gorki247

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I don't really agree with that though. Should multiple storefronts be allowed on Xbox and Playstation, otherwise it isn't fair because there is no competition?
The competition is the smartphone market, not within Apple's device itself.
However, you can get your Xbox and PS games from many other storefronts.
 

HE1NZ

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Epic vs Google vs Apple



You love to see it.
If Apple loses, so would Gaf's favorite: Sony :messenger_winking:
 
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llien

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Yeah, it's the lawsuit part which is dumb as fuck. They knew full well they'd be kicked off.
There are things called "laws" which are above "rules greedy assholes at a company that barely pays income tax have made up".
And then there are PRINCIPLES which led to creation of the said laws, which we tend to change over time, when we see the need.
 

Herr Edgy

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They choose to release their game on the store, they need to follow the stores rules. Nothing unfair about that.
They chose to release their rules under countries' laws, they need to follow the laws. Nothing unfair about that.

Not saying Epic does or doesn't have a strong legal leg here, but your stance is way too simplistic and disregarding all context.
 

Hissing Sid

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Fucking lol at the peeps cheering on Epic/tencent just because 'Apple'.

It's like cheering on rapist No.2 because he interrupted rapist No.1 half-way through the digital dry hump.

Not one of these companies would piss on you to put you out; well not without a monthly subscription anyway.
 
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Vangu Vegro

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Well, here's hoping Google and Apple will cut out the cancer that is Epic and this shitstain of a year can yet have a silver lining.
 

Nicktendo_

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There are things called "laws" which are above "rules greedy assholes at a company that barely pays income tax have made up".
And then there are PRINCIPLES which led to creation of the said laws, which we tend to change over time, when we see the need.

And just now, at this moment, after 12 years of these rules, Tence Epic have decided that Apple is too greedy and they have a nicely timed propaga promotional video to launch in sync with their removal form the App Store. Those "greedy assholes" built something that people wanted to use and became immensely successful because of the number of people who though - "yeah, this is good". What have you made?

Maybe Apple's cut is too high, maybe they are too restrictive?

But, them's the rules. There are laws and rules, which people respect and follow and discuss if they think they are unjust. Maybe boycott companies and corporations who's rules / laws they don't agree with.

Then there is the CCP, who disregard all laws because it thinks it is above them and hilariously think they are justified in suing a store for their own store policies now that they have a successful product - "muh, competition!!"

What is really stopping Epic doing what they did with Steam? They have enough money. Nah, it's not about that, it's about financially harming Apple and Google.

Do you have an Apple hate boner?

 

llien

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Those "greedy assholes" built something that people wanted to use and became immensely successful because of the number of people who though - "yeah, this is good". What have you made?
Me, personally?
Are you trolling or seriously?

Maybe boycott companies and corporations who's rules / laws they don't agree with.
Instead of suing the assholes, because... oh, I think I need your help here.
 

-Arcadia-

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China money should always be suspicious, but at the end of the day, as an Xbox/iOS fan who is seriously disappointed in the current Xcloud situation, thinks 30% is ridiculous, and is fed up with Apple's shit in general, this is wonderful, and I absolutely will cheer Epic on.

As turnabout is fair play, I wonder how many salty Apple/Steam/anti-Fortnite warriors are in here?

Epic is putting on this show like they're doing this for the people. Maybe they are, I don't know. They've gotten us cross-platform console multiplayer, set an example of non-predatory microtransactions, and reduced this same 30% fee significantly on their own platform. Pledging that the money, if they win, will go directly to consumers in the lowered V-Bucks prices we've already seen yesterday, is also nice.

I can't help but notice that all those things help them too, though, lol.

End of the day though, does it really matter? Has nobody here heard, 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend'?
 
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Nicktendo_

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Me, personally?
Are you trolling or seriously?


Instead of suing the assholes, because... oh, I think I need your help here.

Greed / profit = bad, got it.
Good luck convincing 1.4 billion people to part with their iOS devices.

"I don't like that you sell my products with a mark up. Yes, you have the best location in town, and you also have the best foot traffic, but I don't like your 30% cut, so I'm suing you."

Amazing argument.
 

DaleinCalgary

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I'm sure Google and Apple have had lawyers preparing for this case for years.

I think it's pretty straightforward. If you don't like the 30% cut on the app stores don't use them.
 
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Apr 19, 2019
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Away with the fairies
I remember when:

Microsoft were bigger than Apple
Yahoo were bigger than Google
Nintendo ruled the market
Sega made consoles


Their downfall/loss of market share, all started with one incident, a catalyst. Maybe this is the one that brings Epic, Google or Apple down?
 

ZywyPL

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llien

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brings Epic, Google or Apple

Setting aside your implication that software juggernaut called Microsoft has somehow fallen (let me spoil it for you, they are at market capitalization of 1.6 TRILLION bucks, Apple is ahead, but not by much, 1.97 billion, oh, and in the beginning Microsoft was much smaller, than Apple) you have referenced 3 companies in a conflict, as if some of them winning or losing the fight has the same implications for users, or if their practices are even the same.

One side is Apple and Google.
While Google takes its cut, it doesn't go nearly as filthy as Apple does:
1) Google allows phone to be connected to other stores (even in parallel) and even side loading apps
2) Google does not ask for a cut from subscription payments (if, say Washington Post sells subscription to an IOS device, Apple keeps getting its cut for years, until subscription is canceled)

Another side is EPIC and... millions of developers.
Them paying less to Apple and Google is a good thing.

It is very clearly not a "let them fight" situation.
 
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decisions

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You have no understanding of the lawsuit or what is actually going on. Epic is far from shameless here. Remember how the iPad was "the future of computing" as told by Apple for so many years? So is iOS not .. a computing platform? Is Apple going to control "the future of computing" by saying what we can and cannot run?

It has nothing to do with a merchant and their own stores, it has to do with being the gatekeeper on general computing platforms, of which there are basically two players who are 50/50 in the US. There is no choice for users.

Go look at what software engineers are saying. Epic is a hero to them right now, and for good reason. It's not a battle of big corp. vs smaller corp. It's about the very ideals of software development and computing platforms and software freedom.

Of course Apple can have their own rules on their own store. That's not what this is about. This is about not being able to install whatever software you want on your own computer. Period.

Again. Read.

lol “read”. Nice condescending attitude while clearly stating falsehoods.

This is about a merchant and the rules of their store. Fortnite was removed because they violated the in-app purchase rule. Epic just wants that money to go to them instead of Apple. But guess what? They didn’t make iOS, so they don’t get to decide how it works. If they don’t like it they can choose not to use it. Google and Samsung removed the game for the same reason. I don’t know why you are saying this isn’t about store policies when it clearly is.

Also, I am a software engineer haha. Why would Epic be a “hero” to me? Sounds like they just want to make more money and have the government make operating systems have to comply by a new law. Don’t know any software engineer who wants all computing platforms to be identical! That would put us all in the same pool and make it much harder to get hired. If I wanted to protest Apple’s store policy, I wouldn’t deploy to their store.
 
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MrFunSocks

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They chose to release their rules under countries' laws, they need to follow the laws. Nothing unfair about that.

Not saying Epic does or doesn't have a strong legal leg here, but your stance is way too simplistic and disregarding all context.
They aren’t breaking any countries’ laws though, epic just don’t want to pay the 30% cut lol.
 
Apr 19, 2019
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Away with the fairies
Setting aside your implication that software juggernaut called Microsoft has somehow fallen (let me spoil it for you, they are at market capitalization of 1.6 TRILLION bucks, Apple is ahead, but not by much, 1.97 billion, oh, and in the beginning Microsoft was much smaller, than Apple) you have referenced 3 companies in a conflict, as if some of them winning or losing the fight has the same implications for users, or if their practices are even the same.

One side is Apple and Google.
While Google takes its cut, it doesn't go nearly as filthy as Apple does:
1) Google allows phone to be connected to other stores (even in parallel) and even side loading apps
2) Google does not ask for a cut from subscription payments (if, say Washington Post sells subscription to an IOS device, Apple keeps getting its cut for years, until subscription is canceled)

Another side is EPIC and... millions of developers.
Them paying less to Apple and Google is a good thing.

It is very clearly not a "let them fight" situation.
Microsoft aren't the giant they used to be and Apple aren't the ginger step-child that they used to be. Billions of people now use IOS, instead of using Windows like they used to.

You took my post to the most serious extreme on one point, for some strange reason, rather than looking at the overall message; companies rise and fall 🤷‍♂️
 

Warnen

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Denton

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Fucking lol at the peeps cheering on Epic/tencent just because 'Apple'.

It's like cheering on rapist No.2 because he interrupted rapist No.1 halfway through the digital dry hump.

Not one of these companies would piss on you to put you out; well not without a monthly subscription anyway.
This moral relativism is dumb. Sweeney may or may not be doing this out of goodness of his heart, but the end result would be the same if he won: all developers, and by extension customers, would be better off, if the store cut got lowered and competition was allowed.
 
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Herr Edgy

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They aren’t breaking any countries’ laws though, epic just don’t want to pay the 30% cut lol.
Yes, sure. Epic Games is suing Apple without referencing any laws they might be breaking. They are just baiting Apple into removing their own app from the App Store and suing for the fun of it with no chance of success, because Epic Games is dumb.
Are you hearing yourself?

I'm giving you a hint: antitrust laws.
 
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phil_t98

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This moral relativism is dumb. Sweeney may or may not be doing this out of goodness of his heart, but the end result would be the same if he won: all developers, and by extension customers, would be better off, if the store cut got lowered and competition was allowed.
Funny thing is the price change was only 20% different not 30% when they asked for direct payment. Who wins Epic not the consumer
 

MrFunSocks

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Yes, sure. Epic Games is suing Apple without referencing any laws they might be breaking. They are just baiting Apple into removing their own app from the App Store and suing for the fun of it with no chance of success, because Epic Games is dumb.
Are you hearing yourself?

I'm giving you a hint: antitrust laws.
They are suing *because* Apple removed them from the store lol. They didn’t bait them to remove it.

epic will lose this. They’ve chosen to put their game on the store knowing that if they do they have to give the store owner a 30% cut.

What part of the antitrust laws are Apple violating? Tell me since you apparently already know it’s an easy win for epic.
 

Warnen

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If the 30% is really to much of a cost for the massive exposure they get from being on the App Store. They should organize and pull apps to force Apple to negotiate, not breach contract this way.

Enough comapnies pull apps won’t be anything good in the App Store and Apple will have to negotiate or lose users.

sadly epic/china doesn’t care about the 30% really they just want more money. Why only discount the vbucks 20% when apple took 30....
 

Holammer

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Any internet lawyers here that can estimate how many years this process will take, two to three years or more?
Are Epic in for the long haul, or are they intent on bringing this to arbitration asap to haggle new revenue share terms.
 

Herr Edgy

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They are suing *because* Apple removed them from the store lol. They didn’t bait them to remove it.

epic will lose this. They’ve chosen to put their game on the store knowing that if they do they have to give the store owner a 30% cut.

What part of the antitrust laws are Apple violating? Tell me since you apparently already know it’s an easy win for epic.
You realize they had a 65+ page lawsuit and PR campaign including an animated fortnite video that mocks Apple's 1984 commercial ready to strike right?
This was a huge bait on Epic's part.
 

Hissing Sid

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This moral relativism is dumb. Sweeney may or may not be doing this out of goodness of his heart, but the end result would be the same if he won: all developers, and by extension customers, would be better off, if the store cut got lowered and competition was allowed.

Epic are free to make their own phones and create their own app store to sell their own digital dogshit.

Brb, just nipping out to the local superstore to demand terms on them selling my shit. If they cave I pinky promise that I'll pass on any savings to my customers. I have an honest face, you can trust me.
 

Denton

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Epic are free to make their own phones and create their own app store to sell their own digital dogshit.

Brb, just nipping out to the local superstore to demand terms on them selling my shit. If they cave I pinky promise that I'll pass on any savings to my customers. I have an honest face, you can trust me.
Cute. I get this hardcore capitalist outlook, I sympathize with it, but in my view business should not be conducted in a cunty way, which is what Apple and Google are doing. Epic too, to lesser extent, with those exclusives of theirs.
 
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Cunth

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this is epic. these two companies can fuck each others faces
 

Elog

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A lot of you are missing the core of this case. It is ultimately about anti-trust legislation and abuse of a dominant market position.

That means that this has very little to do with Sony and Nintendo for example. That also means that the argument 'if you do not like it, do not be there' has no meaning since their dominant market position means you have to be there to not loose out a disproportionate piece of your business.

This will be interesting. This case has potentially much more implications for Google, Amazon and Microsoft (outside games) than anything else that is relevant for this forum.
 

Fuz

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Yeah, it's the lawsuit part which is dumb as fuck. They knew full well they'd be kicked off. They signed up to the rules, and now they suddenly don't agree and have a nice little propaganda video to turn the kiiiiiids against Apple.

Good luck Tencent.
It's not that easy. Apple has a dominant market position and a monopoly on their phones, they can and will leverage on that.

And in any case, this looks a lot like a publicity stunt.
 
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TheSHEEEP

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The 30% cut for in-game sales is utter BS, though, so on one hand I'm with Epic on this.

On the other hand, they agreed to the rules when they signed up, so....
 

PresetError

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A lot of you are missing the core of this case. It is ultimately about anti-trust legislation and abuse of a dominant market position.

That means that this has very little to do with Sony and Nintendo for example. That also means that the argument 'if you do not like it, do not be there' has no meaning since their dominant market position means you have to be there to not loose out a disproportionate piece of your business.

This will be interesting. This case has potentially much more implications for Google, Amazon and Microsoft (outside games) than anything else that is relevant for this forum.

Doesn't Apple have like the 24% of the smartphone pool? Fuck Apple, by all means, but they are hardly in a dominant market position.
 
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Elog

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Doesn't Apple have like the 24% of the smartphone pool? Fuck Apple, by all means, but they are hardly in a dominant market position.

You are pointing out the core argument in the legal case - do they, or do they not?

Several authorities are exactly investigating this right now. It is not random that Apple stated the following just a few days ago:

 
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