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Drama Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

Kadayi

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A.Romero

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Are you sure about that? My understanding was that they were angling to be the payment processor but kick-back a percentage to the platform holder.

I also have to say I find it funny that people are angry about this, but got all up in Sony's shit about cross-platform play and purchases. The situation is no different to what MS wanted with Minecraft Bedrock; centralize mt on their servers/sales platform meaning that it was on the platform holder to serve purchases that weren't made on their system.


Yes. I saw pictures of mtx being offered in two ways: the cheaper way was through Epic's payment processor and the more expensive way through Apple Store. Essentially passing Apple's cut to the customer.

They do something similar in EGS, if the payment you chose carries a fee, that fee is passed to the customer. On the other hand, Steam let's you chose the method and customers pay the same, regardless.


I'm not that familiar with Sony's but I would guess that Sony would be happy if they still got their cut, given Microsoft would be absorbing all costs and fees for charging customers. Most likely not the case.

I'm not a fan of Apple (I don't have one single product from them, never had) but I would support that business model regardless of the manufacturer. They are setting up the ecosystem and they can charge whatever they feel is correct. Epic accepted those terms. If Apple was changing by doubling up the fee, for example, I'd be taking Epic's side because it's a huge change on their ToS.
 
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theHFIC

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Damn sucks for the Devs that depends on it Epic is to blamed as much as Apple in this.

this only affects Epic’s games like Fortnite and maybe some Infinity Blade stickers. The Unreal engine is separate and protected by the court order.

The termination is in line with App Store violation policies. 14 days to fix and if you keep it active thats grounds to terminate. Fair decision by the court to allow this and protect the engine.
 
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jaysius

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Epic's greed fucks over it's loyal Fortnite customers(and those people were really sad characters to start with), I kind of feel bad for them, but if you're paying out real world money for in-game cosmetics, then you get what you pay for.

Nobody deserves to have their accounts destroyed because of a company's greed.

Epic should be sued or some sort of action taken for this, if they don't want to give refunds.

I'm glad EPIC owns it's own Gamestore, if they ever lose it somehow though... oh boy.
 
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dottme

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Yes. I saw pictures of mtx being offered in two ways: the cheaper way was through Epic's payment processor and the more expensive way through Apple Store. Essentially passing Apple's cut to the customer.

They do something similar in EGS, if the payment you chose carries a fee, that fee is passed to the customer. On the other hand, Steam let's you chose the method and customers pay the same, regardless.


I'm not that familiar with Sony's but I would guess that Sony would be happy if they still got their cut, given Microsoft would be absorbing all costs and fees for charging customers. Most likely not the case.

I'm not a fan of Apple (I don't have one single product from them, never had) but I would support that business model regardless of the manufacturer. They are setting up the ecosystem and they can charge whatever they feel is correct. Epic accepted those terms. If Apple was changing by doubling up the fee, for example, I'd be taking Epic's side because it's a huge change on their ToS.
To be more precise. the customer pays for all the fees and the publisher take all the savings.
If you compare the price of games between Epic Game store and Steam/App store, the price is always the same.
The only difference is that the publisher is making more money.
 

Al3x1s

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I was waiting for this to happen, but how long till they reach an agreement?

BTW...

I don't see any agreement possible beyond Epic submitting they revert to the apple store policies. A special deal letting epic pay less, or not pay at all in favor of some other compensation unrelated to per-transaction fees, would only mean every other big (or ish) company seeks to make a special deal too. Apple won't be willing unless it seems like they can actually lose the case and get forced to allow third party stores/apps to be installed (outside the app store), but at that point even if they reach an agreement some other company will just finish what Epic started so they're in a lose/lose situation if they do make an agreement for the actual app store.
 
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A.Romero

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To be more precise. the customer pays for all the fees and the publisher take all the savings.
If you compare the price of games between Epic Game store and Steam/App store, the price is always the same.
The only difference is that the publisher is making more money.
At least in Mexico games are cheaper on steam with the exception of nuuvem.

I get your point, though.
 

diffusionx

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Also this is turning into a rallying cry for other app developers like Microsoft and Facebook to pushing against Apple's policies and joining in on the media campaign against them.

uhh doesn't MS take 30% too

I have a serious question:

Microsoft was sued and almost broken into two when they included Internet Explorer on Windows, why Apple gets a pass to have only their store on iphone?

The problem was that by bundling IE with Windows, and mandating it, they were engaging in anticompetitive, monopolistic behavior on an OS that controlled 90%+ of the market. Nobody can seriously say that Apple has a monopoly over the phone business or smartphone OS business, of course.
 
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mickaus

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Kids who want to play Fortnite switching to Android, I'd imagine. Additionally, I honestly feel like Epic's strategy of actively trying to poison kids against Apple might work.
I have an iPhone but I think it would be best to get an android phone to play games anyway. The battery life while playing games is just too low with an iPhone. The ipad has a good battery but that can’t fit in your pocket.
 

Al3x1s

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They do something similar in EGS, if the payment you chose carries a fee, that fee is passed to the customer. On the other hand, Steam let's you chose the method and customers pay the same, regardless.
Worth adding that in this case Steam eats the cost of all the processing and what not, even in countries where they offer expensive payment methods (like the Steam wallet cards they print and sell or a dude going out to confirm the purchase and get the money and approve of the game activation or something as is available in some countries). So, both consumer and developer/publisher get the same cut regardless of the payment method costs, where Epic just passes it all to the consumer.
 
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A.Romero

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Worth adding that in this case Steam eats the cost of all the processing and what not, even in countries where they offer expensive payment methods like cash (like the Steam wallet cards they print and sell or a dude going out to confirm the purchase and get the money and approve of the game activation or something as is available in some countries). So, both consumer and developer/publisher get the same cut regardless of the payment method costs, where Epic just passes it all to the consumer.

That's right. It's one of the reasons why I don't find Steam excessive in their cut.
 

John Day

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These companies don’t make decisions like these on a whim. So it’s really interesting wondering where will all this lead.
 

Lionel Richie

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Corporation who exploits sweatshops in China vs. corporation who IS an actual chinese spy. Who do I root for here?
 

Paulistano

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uhh doesn't MS take 30% too



The problem was that by bundling IE with Windows, and mandating it, they were engaging in anticompetitive, monopolistic behavior on an OS that controlled 90%+ of the market. Nobody can seriously say that Apple has a monopoly over the phone business or smartphone OS business, of course.

You had the option to install another browser, with Apple you don't have the option to install another Store.


pretty sure a major part of that was Microsoft demanding unreasonable terms from oems and bullying them into accepting.

This I don't know, but from my perspective as a consumer I see that Apple don't give me any choice in the matter, with Windows I can install any browser, even Android & Windows Phone let me sideload any application I want.

I just see Apple as something I can't support, I just would not want to depend on their goodwill to let me install what they permit on my phone.
 

diffusionx

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This I don't know, but from my perspective as a consumer I see that Apple don't give me any choice in the matter, with Windows I can install any browser, even Android & Windows Phone let me sideload any application I want.

Apple has what, 10% of the smartphone market? Windows was 90%+ at the time. The point was that MS was accused by the government of abusing their monopoly power by engaging in anticompetitive behavior. This is a breach of antitrust law.

Also: MS' bundling came after companies had established a competitive market, whereas this is the way the app store has been since day one. Epic signed up for it, in fact they benefitted from it when they partnered with Apple for the Unreal engine, Infinity Blade, etc. I see no world where the owner of 10% of smartphone market is engaging in illegal antitrust behavior. They may be violating other laws and regulations but that's for the courts to decide.

Point is the situations are totally different, to the point where it's not even worth bringing up in this context. The history of US vs. Microsoft is all out there if you are interested.
 
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Al3x1s

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You had the option to install another browser, with Apple you don't have the option to install another Store.
As said already these are completely different cases. But either way, you don't buy Apple devices (like me) and that's problem solved, there are alternatives.

Besides, android gives you those options as you say and Epic has beef with it too and wants to be on the actual Play Store without paying... Clearly your wishes aren't Epic's end goal with this.

Regardless of their end goal why not just sue Apple outright while conforming to the rules in the mean time as they did and gained so much money from up to this point, without putting users and developers in the middle of their fight? That's just nasty.
 
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Away with the fairies
A big war is on the way now. Apple provided a lot of customers to them. If other companies turn against Apple then it may turn like a boomerang, the thing is that Apple is not simply a company, it’s somehow a culture in the tech business etc. I’m very interested in how this will turn out. Who will win and who will lose.
The real game wars have started

Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo VS Apple, Google, Facebook and Amazon
 
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It's Apple's platform, I'm all for them terminating dicking partners. And I'm not even an Apple fan to boot.

Just curious, when Apple cracked down on Epic's hidden direct-to-pay method, did Epic ever respond saying "My bad. Ok, let's keep partnering, but we'll get rid of the direct to pay".

Or did Sweeney hold firm to the bitter end wanting direct payments???
 
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diffusionx

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It's Apple's platform, I'm all for them terminating dicking partners. And I'm not even an Apple fan to boot.

Just curious, when Apple cracked down on Epic's hidden direct-to-pay method, did Epic ever respond saying "My bad. Ok, let's keep partnering, but we'll get rid of the direct to pay".

Or did Sweeney hold firm to the bitter end wanting direct payments???
Nah, the only logical explanation is that they did this because they wanted this fight. They knew what would happen.
 
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Nah, the only logical explanation is that they did this because they wanted this fight. They knew what would happen.
I have no skin the game as I don't care about Epic or iOS. I have a company iPhone and have downloaded only maybe 10 free apps ever from the iStore. And can't remember the last time I played an Epic game. Probably Shadow Complex for about 40 minutes. lol

Interesting, if the reverse-psychology strategy by Epic is true.
 

Cunth

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I like a bit of schadenfreude as much as the next guy. Sorry to hear that your toilet time Fortnite sessions are going to be a lot less fun now though 🤔
I can play through an RPG during my toilet time
 

Esca

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I don't really care for either company but I think epic picked a fight they can't win
 
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vaibhavpisal

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Analogy...
Just imagine if a company like Samsung wanted a physical space in a brick and mortar store like Best Buy. Now Best Buy offers companies area within their store for a price to keep that area. other companies like Apple and Google agree to pay to keep that space but Samsung, because they have a hype new phone and loyal fans, think they don't need to pay, or instead try to bypass Best Buy getting any of the sale while being in their store because they feel that Best Buy is asking for too much.


So am actually on the side of Apple in this one, greedy, Steve Job turning in his grave bc Apple pen, Apple. Down goes Epic

But what if best buy space you want to rent costs best buy nothing? And you have to pay a rent premium for them doing nothing.
 

ethomaz

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This will probably hurt Apple more than it will Epic. Fortnite is still really popular.
Heavy doubt that.

Only Epic has to lose in that battle.
 
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FStubbs

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Analogy...
Just imagine if a company like Samsung wanted a physical space in a brick and mortar store like Best Buy. Now Best Buy offers companies area within their store for a price to keep that area. other companies like Apple and Google agree to pay to keep that space but Samsung, because they have a hype new phone and loyal fans, think they don't need to pay, or instead try to bypass Best Buy getting any of the sale while being in their store because they feel that Best Buy is asking for too much.


So am actually on the side of Apple in this one, greedy, Steve Job turning in his grave bc Apple pen, Apple. Down goes Epic

Steve Jobs would have put out a statement with his intent to crush Epic/Tencent as a company about now.

Again, what happens to Unreal Engine licensees when they can no longer use Unreal Engine to develop on iOS? Do they sue Epic?
 
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BWJinxing

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It was pointed out if you cheat in fortnight, in Epic's TOS, access to your Epic account could be banned entirely ... did Sweeny not read the TOS about cheating Apple, when he clicked "I Agree"? :pie_thinking:
 
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MayauMiao

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Remember, Apple took out the earphone jack and still can sell iPhones.

Fortnite is nothing to Apple. Good luck getting entitled kids to part with precious iPhones.
 

John Mullins

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Isn't Fortnite free?

This is wholly about Epic. Them trying to say they are taking a wider stance for the greater good of customers and developers is laughable.

They simply want to be where Apple is right now. Hope it blows up in their face, which it seems to be doing, though I know they have done this on purpose.
 

John Mullins

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I have a serious question:

Microsoft was sued and almost broken into two when they included Internet Explorer on Windows, why Apple gets a pass to have only their store on iphone?

Erm, it's their phone? Their hardware?

Windows itself is software.
 

MegaZoneEX

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The analogy still applies weather or not the space cost anything, it's still Best Buy store.

Same with the App store, though it's not a physical store, each app is a store front. Fortnite is one of the biggest "store front" on any app /software store.

So if Apple starts giving out free space to Epic, other smaller apps will demand it too.
 

Guilty_AI

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But what if best buy space you want to rent costs best buy nothing? And you have to pay a rent premium for them doing nothing.
Its still theirs so they have the right to do so. Besides, thats a poor analogy considering space on a digital store does have costs for the store owner.
 

Paasei

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This is an amazing popcorn show if you don't really care about either side. Poor kids, though, now they have to ask their parents to buy them Android phones.
 
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