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Armature Studio to handle Bloodstained: RotN Wii U port

M3d10n

Member
I don't (and can't!) dispute any of the technical points you've made, but I wanna reiterate something on the Guilty Gear point: they never said "we are chasing the same aesthetic as Xrd", they merely cited it as a broad example of a 2.5D game that looks and feels suitably "authentic", along with some other games like Strider, and when I say "they" I mostly mean Fangamer or Ben Judd or whoever's writing their PR copy, not anyone relevant.

People are riding the Xrd comparison way too hard and I don't think it's to anyone's benefit.

My point is that you cannot do cell shading in UE4 with lighting enabled. You can do cartoonish visuals, of course, but not something that resembles 2D due to the way the lit materials work. Well, you *can*, but that would require either hacking the physically based deferred renderer as to change the entire BDRF or adding a new "shading model", but you'd probably end up with crappy looking post process cell shading. GGXrd's way is much more elegant and actually gives artists control over the cell shading output. It's also damn easy to program.

I just wonder if the game will really need to be cut in any way... if smash could handle 60fps on 1080p, I don't see why this couldn't

Smash runs at spitting distance from dropping the framerate, however. You can get slowdowns in many levels by pausing the game and zooming the camera a little bit, for example, since it makes some effects cover more pixels of the screen than they do during gameplay. Every object, transparency and foliage was placed and moved around to make it possible. It's also not a port of a game from higher end systems.
 
So was I reading this right.... the game uses ureal 4 and that engine will be used for the Wii U version?

I wouldn't expect Armature to port the game and engine to Wii U for $250k.

Like the 3DS / Vita version of MN9, I think this will simply get built from scratch for WiiU.

Probably, wouldn't expect much from the port unless Deep Sliver contributes more than the $250k stretch goal.
 

Hugstable

Banned
Awesome to see that there is going to be a Wii U version! Will probably pick that one up first. If it turns out being as good as Shovel Knight, I'll probably be triple or quadruple dipping again (if the game turns out great).

It's Iga and Castlevania style though, I'm sure it's gonna be amazing!
 

TheMoon

Member
So was I reading this right.... the game uses ureal 4 and that engine will be used for the Wii U version?

You're not reading it right because we know nothing about how the port will be handled outside of Armature being the developer of it.
 

M3d10n

Member
I wouldn't expect Armature to port the game and engine to Wii U for $250k.

I all depends on their internal resources and skills. Only they know what takes more effort: porting a game to a different engine or porting an engine to a different platform.

In my personal experience, I would go with porting UE4 itself, using the mobile GLES2 forward renderer as a base to get better chances at having a good performance and adapting the assets and materials as needed to get it working. The engine already runs on mobile phones, it would be much easier to downgrade the game inside the same engine than downgrade it to another engine.

Since it's a 2.5D game being made by long time Japanese developers, I would dread to have to parse their logic to re-write it in a completely different language. I'd rather deal with Epic's neatly organized source code.
 

RM8

Member
I guess it could be interpreted either way, but "...its brethren on UE4" sounds to me like their brothers are on UE4, but not this version.
 
I guess it could be interpreted either way, but "...its brethren on UE4" sounds to me like their brothers are on UE4, but not this version.

That quote can definitely be taken either way really, personally I'd doubt they've even decided which way they're going to do it yet
 

Zero²

Member
People tend to stop buying games for old systems though. That's why you don't see games for the NES coming out anymore.
Just Dance 2015 Wii says hi. Cross gen PS3 games say hi. I really need to keep going?
That said, I dont expect it to sell like hotcakes, but its hardly a genre that usually underperforms on Nintendo plataforms, and it will do well, even if only to the hardcore.
 

RM8

Member
That quote can definitely be taken either way really, personally I'd doubt they've even decided which way they're going to do it yet
I see it like this: this Jelly Bean phone performs just as well as its brethren on KitKat. I don't know, it seems to be like they imply this version will be developed differently. But again, it's definitely something that can be interpreted both ways.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Zero²;165657332 said:
Just Dance 2015 Wii says hi. Cross gen PS3 games say hi. I really need to keep going?
That said, I dont expect it to sell like hotcakes, but its hardly a genre that usually underperforms on Nintendo plataforms, and it will do well, even if only to the hardcore.
Highly successful platforms tend to see game releases well after retirement. How many GameCube or Xbox games were made after those systems reached end of life? How about Saturn? Or Dreamcast? Wii U isn't exactly a success. Worldwide sales are about on par with Dreamcast yet it's been on the market LONGER than DC.
 

Cathcart

Member
I wouldn't get too excited, looking at the Kickstarter we're far off from getting a Wii U version. Only 14 days left and we're still $121,733 away from hitting the stretch goal. (as of writing this)

There's always a huge bump in the last few days of a big Kickstarter like this, though. They'll hit that easy.
 

lyrick

Member
Highly successful platforms tend to see game releases well after retirement. How many GameCube or Xbox games were made after those systems reached end of life? How about Saturn? Or Dreamcast? Wii U isn't exactly a success. Worldwide sales are about on par with Dreamcast yet it's been on the market LONGER than DC.

about on par?

Is there any actual data out there that puts the Dreamcast near 10M units? Dreamcast numbers always seem to get to around the 8.4M number then magically jump into the 10s without any reliable source...
 

Tom_Cody

Member
This is old to me but I agree that it deserves its own thread.

I'm happy about this pairing. I hope they do a good job.
 

Shiggy

Member
Zero²;165657332 said:
Just Dance 2015 Wii says hi. Cross gen PS3 games say hi. I really need to keep going?
That said, I dont expect it to sell like hotcakes, but its hardly a genre that usually underperforms on Nintendo plataforms, and it will do well, even if only to the hardcore.

Again, those were successful platforms. Don't even see how one could compare Wii/PS3 to Wii U. Better comparison would be the Dreamcast (ok, that actually got a few games years later). The Wii U is already having a very starved future lineup at this point. Even Nintendo acknowledges this and delayed games such as Kirby, Art Academy, or Yoshi to avoid a complete drought.
 

Nairume

Banned
Highly successful platforms tend to see game releases well after retirement. How many GameCube or Xbox games were made after those systems reached end of life? How about Saturn? Or Dreamcast? Wii U isn't exactly a success. Worldwide sales are about on par with Dreamcast yet it's been on the market LONGER than DC.
Going by wiki's list of games released for the system, the Dreamcast actually got a fair amount of games a year for about four years after it was officially discontinued, and then continued to get maybe a couple a year until about two years ago.

Besides, it's not like every WiiU is going to suddenly self destruct upon the release of the next Nintendo console and nobody will ever be able to buy games for it ever again.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Glad you mentioned sales wise... because as a game console that sole purpose is to deliver great games it has been a major success at least to me.
Agreed 100%. I love the Wii U just as I love Dreamcast, Vita, NGPC, and the rest of failed systems.

about on par?

Is there any actual data out there that puts the Dreamcast near 10M units?
Everything I've seen online suggests it sold around 10.6 million. Not sure where those numbers were sources from.

Going by wiki's list of games released for the system, the Dreamcast actually got a fair amount of games a year for about five years after it was officially discontinued, and then continued to get maybe a couple a year until about two years ago.
Mostly obscure shooters and indie stuff. So I guess Bloodstained fits in well.
 

SuomiDude

Member
Wow, didn't know about this, great news. I was disappointed about the news of XBone and PS4 only in the main thread and didn't follow the news anymore. So in for the game!
 

RM8

Member
Wikipedia says:

Dreamcast: 10.6m
WiiU: 9.54m (as of March)

I think they'll end up not too far apart, along with systems like Saturn or TG16. The four of them are pretty cool systems IMO! :p
 

TunaLover

Member
I see it like this: this Jelly Bean phone performs just as well as its brethren on KitKat. I don't know, it seems to be like they imply this version will be developed differently. But again, it's definitely something that can be interpreted both ways.
But the stretch goal say "port", not remake, Wii U version or something like that. I guess the mention of UE4 means they are probably using another engine that they will make look as nice as the UE4 brethren.
 

RM8

Member
But the stretch goal say "port", not remake, Wii U version or something like that. I guess the mention of UE4 means they are probably using another engine that they will make look as nice as the UE4 brethren.
A port is not necessarily a 1:1 copy, is it? Especially back when systems were so different from each other.
 
Wikipedia says:

Dreamcast: 10.6m
WiiU: 9.54m (as of March)

I think they'll end up not too far apart, along with systems like Saturn or TG16. The four of them are pretty cool systems IMO! :p

Wii U still has at least 2 more Christmases on the market though
 

lyrick

Member
Wikipedia says:

Dreamcast: 10.6m
WiiU: 9.54m (as of March)

I think they'll end up not too far apart, along with systems like Saturn or TG16. The four of them are pretty cool systems IMO! :p

The only source for that number is an old bitgamer article that never cites a source. I've seen some cite 9M, but if you track down actual sales numbers and reports you'll be very hard pressed to find a 10M number anywhere.

9.13M actuallly has some reasoning behind it and has been discused quite a bit here
 

RM8

Member
I though you were saying it would be a different version build from the scractch. I read it wrong :p
I think it's likely that it'll be the same game (with the obvious technical downgrades), but indeed built from scratch - again, like the handheld ports of Mighty No. 9.
 
I'm always intrigued by Wii U ports for some reason, hopefully this'll be a great one.

I am too actually, I think it's something to do with seeing how close it gets to the original product. Most don't hit the mark but when you see the occasional Need for Speeds and Trine 2's of the world it is kinda cool to see they pulled it off.
 
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