Support NeoGAF

[GoldenEye98]

When hackers revealed an unpatchable exploit allowing deep system access in all existing Switch consoles back in April, some industry watchers worried that this would lead to widespread piracy for copyrighted games on the system. Additional work by longtime Nintendo hacker SciresM, though, lays out the relatively robust protections Nintendo has in place to detect systems playing pirated games online and to permanently ban those consoles from Nintendo's network.

SciresM's lengthy Reddit post goes into a good level of technical detail on how Nintendo authorizes games and systems when connecting to the Nintendo network. The core of the protections comes from a unique encrypted client certificate stored in the "TrustZone" core of every Switch unit.

That certificate is used to identify the specific hardware being used to log in to Nintendo's servers, meaning a banned console will stay banned from the network permanently. That's a change from the 3DS, where users could use a fake token to get around a console-level network ban (at least until another ban came down, that is).

For Switch games themselves, Nintendo also uses encrypted certificates to verify that the game in question is legitimate when connecting online. In the case of physical game cards, that certificate is a unique, RSA-2048-signed string that's written at the factory. That means "sharing of certificates should be fairly detectable, for Nintendo," SciresM writes, and the system fills in a 3DS security hole that involved the reuse of legitimate game-specific header information.

For downloadable Switch games, an encrypted ticket inside the game data integrates information about the game with the console's unique Device ID and the Nintendo Account ID used to purchase it. This method "actually perfectly prevents online piracy," SciresM writes, by cryptographically tying downloaded copies of games to the system and account first used to purchase them. If you download an illegitimate copy of a Switch game that was purchased on a different console/account, Nintendo can detect the mismatch as soon as you log in and immediately ban the console from its network.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018...ct-method-for-detecting-online-switch-piracy/

 

[Toe-Knee]

This is all great but don't most pirates just play offline?

 

[GoldenEye98]

This is all great but don't most pirates just play offline?

Probably but making it difficult to play online will definitely disincentive piracy. It sounds like your system will be permanently banned from online if caught.

 

[Pejo]

I guess that's a relief to people worried that pirates and hackers would kill a lot of online gaming on the switch. Still, once Switch has some good homebrew emulators working on it, there's nothing that's going to prevent me from making it the perfect offline emulator. If I absolutely need to go online with a game, I'll just get another Switch.

Funny thing is, if Nintendo wouldn't be so ass backwards with their stance on Virtual Console or having an account based system for old games that you've already purchased, I'd gladly just buy them and play them that way.

 

[jshackles]

Probably but making it difficult to play online will definitely disincentive piracy. It sounds like your system will be permanently banned from online if caught.

It appears that, given the technical information outlined in the article, you run the risk of having your Nintendo account banned as well if you're using it to play pirated games.

The same is true of most modern consoles though - the Vita has been hacked for years but since the hack currently doesn't run on the latest firmware (yet) it means you can't access any online services. The same is currently true of the PS4. Compared to the 3DS though (which was rampant with piracy used to play online) this is a pretty solid counter-measure to prevent griefing and such.

But Toe-Knee is right, most people won't care that much especially since Nintendo doesn't have a lot to offer right now in terms of multiplayer.

 

[Harlock]

Talking about the subject, this video about the PS1 disc checking is interesting:

 

[bufkus]

I guess that's a relief to people worried that pirates and hackers would kill a lot of online gaming on the switch. Still, once Switch has some good homebrew emulators working on it, there's nothing that's going to prevent me from making it the perfect offline emulator. If I absolutely need to go online with a game, I'll just get another Switch.

Funny thing is, if Nintendo wouldn't be so ass backwards with their stance on Virtual Console or having an account based system for old games that you've already purchased, I'd gladly just buy them and play them that way.

since most hackers'/pirates' solution to this is to buy a second Switch for offline play, it sounds like Nintendo has a real winner on their hands by making people resort to double dipping if they want their free games.

 

[Imtjnotu]

I just want to play snes games on it.........

 

[FireEmoji]

Isn't this how Sony/MS have done it since the 360/PS3 era?

And what MS attempted but failed to do in the OG Xbox era.

 

[llien]

Cartridges being unique is a nice touch.
On the other hand, I doubt it would "de-Incentive" people planning to pirate.

 

[llien]

Isn't this how Sony/MS have done it since the 360/PS3 era?

As far as I read this, no, disks are not unique.

 

[Zog]

So if a card is banned and someone buys a banned card pre-owned then innocent consumers get hurt. This is not ok. Getting your console and account banned for buying a pre-owned game is a problem.

 

[jshackles]

So if a card is banned and someone buys a banned card pre-owned then innocent consumers get hurt. This is not ok. Getting your console and account banned for buying a pre-owned games is a problem.

As far as I'm aware, the cart itself doesn't get banned. Since each cart has a unique cert, Nintendo is likely looking for multiple people playing the same "cart" at the same time.

However, backing up your game then selling it could potentially affect the innocent consumer that bought it, since you and them could be playing it at the same time. Nintendo might let those kinds of cases slide though to prevent that sort of thing from happening. My guess is they're looking for instances where hundreds of people are playing the same cart at the same time, and banning those people. It still sucks for the poor chump who buys the second-hand cart used by the hacker group to dump then put it online though, because in Nintendo's eyes he looks identical to the pirates.

There will definitely be some innocent bystanders caught in the mix here.

 

[goldenpp72]

So if a card is banned and someone buys a banned card pre-owned then innocent consumers get hurt. This is not ok. Getting your console and account banned for buying a pre-owned games is a problem.

Nintendo is banning legit cards?

 

[Zog]

Nintendo is banning legit cards?

Each card has a unique ID. Say someone made a copy of Super Mario Odyssey and then sold the original to Gamestop. Both copies of the game would have the same ID and so both copies of the game would be banned (and maybe the consoles and accounts that try to play them).

Imagine you unknowingly (because how would you know) bought a banned game card and when you tried to play it, not only could you not play it but your console and account would be banned. This is about as anti-consumer as I can think of.

 

[n0razi]

Most pirates probably wont be online anyways since its paid now


In the end this screws mostly innocent people (2nd hand cart buyers)

 

[Zog]

Most pirates probably wont be online anyways since its paid now

Online includes just checking the eShop or trying to register a new physical game.

 

[camelCase]

Talking about the subject, this video about the PS1 disc checking is interesting:

I find that thumbnail hilarious because I have an unplayed jpn copy of PaRappa that will stay unplayed as long as I'm squeamish about touching my PS2's DD.

 

[Reallink]

Each card has a unique ID. Say someone made a copy of Super Mario Odyssey and then sold the original to Gamestop. Both copies of the game would have the same ID and so both copies of the game would be banned (and maybe the consoles and accounts that try to play them).

Imagine you unknowingly (because how would you know) bought a banned game card and when you tried to play it, not only could you not play it but your console and account would be banned. This is about as anti-consumer as I can think of.

Such a scenario would be patently and egregiously illegal in every territory Nintendo does business, even the United States of Corporations.

 

[FireEmoji]

As far as I read this, no, disks are not unique.

I know unique disks was part of MS's plan to let people play disk based games from the HD w/o the disk in the drive; I guess I should have known that part was new. (and remember that Sony had been working on that but never got there)

I was mainly referring to the unique crypto key burned into each hardware unit though; that's hardly a new thing and was even attempted to be done on OG Xbox although IIRC that was defeated.

 

[Hotel Security]

I guess that's a relief to people worried that pirates and hackers would kill a lot of online gaming on the switch.

Don't worry. Nintendo's shitty online system will kill it off for them.

 

[Zog]

Such a scenario would be patently and egregiously illegal in every territory Nintendo does business, even the United States of Corporations.

So you don't believe that Nintendo will be banning game cards?

 

[DiscoJer]

This is all great but don't most pirates just play offline?

Back during the PSP days, pirates would play (and cheat) online constantly.

 

[Dontero]

Yeah the same exact Nintendo who allowed for pirate to literally play games online on 3DS with barely any bans. AND THEY HAD TOOLS TO SEE who has legit copy and who doesn't

Piracy isn't a problem anymore. Systems got so hard to hack and run hacked for most of people than it takes very afluent people to get those running and even then you usually miss most of new releases and you wait for new firmaware to be updated.

So basically you are looking at fringe unlike PS2 days. And this is why they don't care. 3DS already has every tool needed to ban consoles, NNIDs etc as they see fit but they never used that outside of games breaking street date before release date. Sony isn't in any better situation.

Pirates got so brave that they even don't bother to download roms from shady sites. They literally download whatever they want from own Sony/Nintendo severs. And both Sony/Nintendo don't care about it despite the fact that this is 5 minute work to check who is downloading against license someone is holding.

So for them it is probably cheaper to let pirates operate than to pay for hotline with people who got mistaken by their system.

 

[llien]

I was mainly referring to the unique crypto key burned into each hardware unit though; that's hardly a new thing and was even attempted to be done on OG Xbox although IIRC that was defeated.

That part is ancient, even for Nintendo devices, I think.

The major news here is "Nintendo did something with security that only mildly sucks, instead of being outright terrible".

 

[Nintendo Switch]

I own all the Switch cartridges but I plan to make backups of them on my Switch using SX Pro so that I don’t have to keep switching cartridges.

Since I own the games and they will register the ID with my Switch, does this mean that I can go online with it despite installing SX Pro on my Switch?

Will this only work if I have the correct cartridge in for my game when I go online?

Or will I be detected and banned just for using SX Pro to back up my games and saves?

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

Meanwhile pirates are buying tablet only Switches on eBay for $150 and playing online with their other consoles. I don't see how this defeats anything. Pirates are certainly willing to spend $150 to pirate unlimited Switch games. That's less than the cost of three games.

 

[herod]

they make money from console sales and are obviously making huge profits from incredibly expensive peripherals

compared to their royalty cut on software sales I don't think they're going to lose a lot of sleep over lost sales to piracy

this is all they need to disincentivise piracy, watch now as more and more games dangle fun tidbits for connecting your game to their servers

pirates are going to pirate regardless, the aim is to make it just awkward enough for the layman not to bother

 

[Mattyp]

Wasn't planning on taking my Switch online anyway, knew they would at least put a stop to that unlike 3DS.

 

[Allandor]

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018...ct-method-for-detecting-online-switch-piracy/

Well, this is nothing new. The only new thing is that they have a unique "key" on the cartridge (which I already expected from 3DS titles .. but well). For digital titles, this is just normal. When you purchase a game you get a certificate that authenticates you and is bound to your account (and console).

What Nintendo just needs is to records those activities and bann those consoles at some time with an update so they could not even used to play something offline after the update is out. That is what Nintendo can do to prevent piracy with this system.
But the lack of security they invested in their previous consoles, I doubt that they will do anything like this.