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(ARTICLE) Microsoft's Xbox at crucial stage in battling Sony

Sorry if old.

A very pro-Microsoft article that rates their prospects very highly for the next generation. They do seem to take a little liberty with facts such as the installed bases (comparing WW Xbox vs US PS2) as well as with the PS2 online base. They also expect the Xbox to be profitable by 2007.



Microsoft, Sony in video-game joust
$10 billion U.S. market about to move to new level

NEW YORK (CBS.MW) -- The video game industry is at an inflection point, a Microsoft officer told analysts at the software giant's annual meeting last week, and whoever dominates it will "win the next console cycle."

Whereas game console sales used to be driven by the unit's power and speed, said Bryan Lee, CFO of Microsoft's Home and Entertainment Division, sales will now come from the software that supports them. That includes the online platform, where players can play on a worldwide stage via mobile devices, computers or their game consoles.

"The company that can define those scenarios and execute on them will win the next console cycle," said Lee. "That company will either be Microsoft or it will be Sony."

A lot of money is at stake, with $10 billion a year spent in the U.S., roughly the same amount Americans spend on movies and music.

"What you're seeing is video games are rising to be an entertainment icon that's on par with a lot of other parts of the more established entertainment medium," Lee said.

Lee added, however, that while box office receipts are largely flat and the music industry's sales are falling, spending on video games has risen 60 percent over the past six years.

"And when you think about what can happen in the future, there are actually a lot of reasons why that trajectory can continue," said Lee.

In the U.S., he said, barely more than a third of U.S. households have a video console. In foreign markets, such as India and China, the numbers are even lower.

"The industry is ripe for a lot of growth," he said.

Microsoft's contender in the video game industry is the Xbox, with a total of 15.5 million sold since its introduction in late 2000. For each Xbox, the company has also sold an average of 6.9 games.

Microsoft's main competitor in consoles, Sony's (SNE: news, chart, profile) PlayStation 2, has sold about 25 million units.

Online gaming

But the real growth prospects are in the game sales and the expansion of gaming online, where players battle over high-speed Internet connections.

Microsoft's foray into that market is its Xbox Live service, which offers about 100 games and typically costs $50 a year. About 1 million customers have subscribed.

Microsoft plans to introduce "Halo 2" on Nov. 9 and add 50 more titles with online capability by the Christmas season. Lee expects the number of Xbox Live subscribers to swell to 1.5 million by the middle of 2005.

Sony has sold 3 million PlayStation 2 versions equipped with Internet connections in the U.S. This service is largely free, and the number of users has been about 1.2 million.

Showing the importance of the online segment, Lee said that Xbox's success will be based on its Xbox Live system, which he said is "redefining what gaming is about. We are the undisputed leader in online."

Analysts at the meeting appeared most impressed by the launch of Halo 2, which a McAdams Wright Ragen analyst called "one of the most anticipated games in history."

Next-generation consoles

Many analysts wondered about when the new version of the Xbox (dubbed "Xbox2") would be launched.

"Microsoft and Sony are in a game of Prisoners Dilemma as they strategize about when to release the next-generation console," said analyst David Hilal, at Friedman, Billings and Ramsey.

Goldman Sachs analyst Rick Sherlund said he expects Xbox2 to be introduced by Christmas 2005, which will beat Sony's introduction by about a year. With this introduction, he added, the company's Home and Entertainment division should reach profitability by fiscal year 2007. The division lost $1.2 billion in fiscal 2004.

In a note to clients, Morgan Stanley analyst Mary Meeker appeared more impressed. "The most important takeaway from the Xbox business should be what Microsoft has done and on how little time it has accomplished it," she said. "It has achieved a No. 2 market position, established a true consumer brand for the home, generated strong IP franchises, and developed third party relationships."
 

cvxfreak

Member
So they say.

It's interesting that Xbox's userbase will be roughly half that of PS2's when it's all said and done - an admirable achievement.
 

nubbe

Member
Microsoft's contender in the video game industry is the Xbox, with a total of 15.5 million sold since its introduction in late 2000.

Microsoft's main competitor in consoles, Sony's (SNE: news, chart, profile) PlayStation 2, has sold about 25 million units.

good stuff... spin spin
 
Luscious LeftFoot said:
That's a pretty glaring error.

It's funny how Nintendo's not even hinted at in the article.

That's how it's been for most of this gen. Nintendo's basically taken themself out of the picture.

Even with that error it just shows how dominant the PS2 is. There's still a big gap between sales even with the Xbox's worldwide sales compared to the PS2's US only sales.
 

Deg

Banned
SolidSnakex said:
Even with that error it just shows how dominant the PS2 is. There's still a big gap between sales even with the Xbox's worldwide sales compared to the PS2's US only sales.

It shows Sony is doomed.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
that sort of flagrant disregard for cash surely has to have the fear of god into sony?

wow - 15.5 vs 25.5 - didn't realise that these were the figures for PS2 vs Xbox.
so how are the other 50 million PS2 units spread?
 

open_mouth_

insert_foot_
DCharlie said:
that sort of flagrant disregard for cash surely has to have the fear of god into sony?

Why do you think Sony has been trying to counter everything Microsoft is doing, despite their best efforts to dismiss the Xbox as a competitor...

Sony is aping XNA, Live, HD support, Voice Chat, price drops, and even Halo! Granted Microsoft copies Sony too, but anyone who says Sony doesn't worry about Microsoft is foolish.
 
It's not worrying, it's playing the game right. You don't let people get the upper hand on you. Some companies understand this logic, other companies have no idea about it and continue to fall behind. :p
 
DCharlie said:
that sort of flagrant disregard for cash surely has to have the fear of god into sony?

wow - 15.5 vs 25.5 - didn't realise that these were the figures for PS2 vs Xbox.
so how are the other 50 million PS2 units spread?

Based on shipments, relatively evenly, with Japan having a slightly lower percentage and the US having the highest.

2004/06/30 72.01 million units (Japan: 17.52 million*/ USA: 29.53 million/ Europe: 24.96 million
 

myzhi

Banned
jedimike said:
MS is absolutely brilliant... they can lose over a billion a year on Xbox and investors come away impressed. :)


The biggest factor for investors are continuing growth. Profits are important, but not the most. Look at Nintendo, they continue to make profits, but since they have pretty much no growth, their future outlook does not look good. Sony is in the same position. Thus, need to find new markets, ie portable gaming.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
that sort of flagrant disregard for cash surely has to have the fear of god into sony?
Why? According to you Sony's been selling PS2 at a loss for nearly 5years now, clearly they have no regard to cash :p

wow - 15.5 vs 25.5 - didn't realise that these were the figures for PS2 vs Xbox.
Someone should write an article where they "mistake" XBox Korean sales for worldwide and compare them to PS2 worldwide :)
 

jedimike

Member
SolidSnakex said:
It's not worrying, it's playing the game right. You don't let people get the upper hand on you. Some companies understand this logic, other companies have no idea about it and continue to fall behind. :p

hehe.. so true SSX.
 
open_mouth_ said:
Why do you think Sony has been trying to counter everything Microsoft is doing, despite their best efforts to dismiss the Xbox as a competitor...

Sony is aping XNA, Live, HD support, Voice Chat, price drops, and even Halo! Granted Microsoft copies Sony too, but anyone who says Sony doesn't worry about Microsoft is foolish.

That is the most pathetic statement I think I've ever seen you post and that's saying a hell of alot.

You do know that SOCOM was on display at E3 2000 when Xbox announced Live and was already an online shooter that used voice chat, right? They also had planned for the HD before the Xbox was even announced. Sony has dropped thier price 3 years in a row at E3 like clockwork, but because Microsoft dropped it in March, Sony suddenly copied them.

You did get the last part right. Microsoft has copied Sony a hell of alot more than the other way around.
 

ypo

Member
"Why? According to you Sony's been selling PS2 at a loss for nearly 5years now, clearly they have no regard to cash "

HAHA, so true.
 

open_mouth_

insert_foot_
sonycowboy said:
That is the most pathetic trolling statement I think I've ever seen you post and that's saying a hell of alot.

You do know that SOCOM was on display at E3 2000 when Xbox announced Live and was already an online shooter that used voice chat, right? They also had planned for the HD before the Xbox was even announced. Sony has dropped thier price 3 years in a row at E3 like clockwork, but because Microsoft dropped it in March, Sony suddenly copied them.

You did get the last part right. Microsoft has copied Sony a hell of alot more than the other way around.

I'm talking about Sony's transition to an Xbox live-like service (that they talked about @ E3), not online in general. For the price drops, Sony could have just ignored Microsoft's drops and kept the PS2 at a higher price, but they reacted quickly after they saw the positive effects for the Xbox. The point is that Sony IS paying close attention to Microsoft, despite their dramatic lead, and that says alot about Microsoft's position in the present ant their prospects in the future.
 
jedimike said:
hehe.. so true SSX.

It's definetly the truth. The Sony vs. MS fight is very interesting because Sony wants to stay at the top so bad and MS wants to be up there. So you've basically got 2 companies doing whatever it takes to get there. Then you've got the other one.
 
open_mouth_ said:
For the price drops, Sony could have just ignored Microsoft's drops and kept the PS2 at a higher price, but they reacted quickly after they saw the positive effects for the Xbox.

You do mean drop as in the singular, right? Since they've only dropped the price before Sony once. And they did keep the PS2 at a higher price for six weeks until E3, despite numerous analysts predicting a reactionary drop and a ton more predictions likewise on this board. It was guaranteed that Sony was going to drop thier price at E3 and Microsoft took the opportunity (a smart one, I'll add) to do a preemptive drop to gain some positive PR and a nice bump before the PS2 drop.

My contention is with your assumption that Sony panicked.

I will agree that Sony is copying Xbox Live functionality as clearly Microsoft has done an extraordinary job of developing that service. I think it's a testament to using their expertise in the PC world and bringing it to the console market.

I also agree that Sony is definitely watching Microsoft and you could certainly quantify it as worrying. In business you worry about everything. Anything that can affect your business is an area that must be thouroughly examined and considered. Sony's worried about Nintendo, Sega, & Microsoft.
 

pilonv1

Member
Catchpenny said:
It would be more interesting if those two companies weren't offering the same product under different brand names.

Catchpenny's guide to business:

1. Sell something people dont want
2. ...
3. Profit
 

alejob

Member
Microsoft's contender in the video game industry is the Xbox, with a total of 15.5 million sold since its introduction in late 2000. For each Xbox, the company has also sold an average of 6.9 games.


Xbox was released in 2001 right?
Where's this article from anyway?
 
Nice non-sequitur, thanks for playing.

When you have something like PSP vs. DS, that's a hardware battle worth talking about. Two very different devices to compare. PS2 vs. Xbox vs. Gamecube is utterly boring. It's like discussing what brand of DVD player you like the best. If it weren't for exclusive games, most people wouldn't really give a shit.
 
Catchpenny said:
When you have something like PSP vs. DS, that's a hardware battle worth talking about. Two very different devices to compare. PS2 vs. Xbox vs. Gamecube is utterly boring. It's like discussing what brand of DVD player you like the best. If it weren't for exclusive games, most people wouldn't really give a shit.

That statement is an indictment on the very core of GAF! Take it back, now!
 

pilonv1

Member
Catchpenny said:
If it weren't for exclusive games, most people wouldn't really give a shit.

It's those with an intense emotional attachment to a less relevant company that are the ones usually giving a shit about it. Most of us really don't care, it doesn't make the games any better or worse.
 

open_mouth_

insert_foot_
sonycowboy said:
You do mean drop as in the singular, right? Since they've only dropped the price before Sony once. And they did keep the PS2 at a higher price for six weeks until E3, despite numerous analysts predicting a reactionary drop and a ton more predictions likewise on this board. It was guaranteed that Sony was going to drop thier price at E3 and Microsoft took the opportunity (a smart one, I'll add) to do a preemptive drop to gain some positive PR and a nice bump before the PS2 drop.

My contention is with your assumption that Sony panicked.

I will agree that Sony is copying Xbox Live functionality as clearly Microsoft has done an extraordinary job of developing that service. I think it's a testament to using their expertise in the PC world and bringing it to the console market.

I also agree that Sony is definitely watching Microsoft and you could certainly quantify it as worrying. In business you worry about everything. Anything that can affect your business is an area that must be thouroughly examined and considered. Sony's worried about Nintendo, Sega, & Microsoft.

agreed. My qualm is with those people who argue that because Sony is so far ahead of Nin/MS, they don't (or don't need to) bother keeping track of them. Anyhow, Sony is being much more proactive/reactive as the market leader to keep that position than Nintendo ever wask, which says alot for their market saavy. IMO, MS will put up a better fight next round and Sony will do everything to counter and stay ahead, which is why it's going to be VERY EXCITING for us.
 
Catchpenny said:
It would be more interesting if those two companies weren't offering the same product under different brand names.

In a way, I agree with this. Sony got on top because they weren't Sega and they weren't Nintendo. They pushed for a better distribution model with CDs, they pushed to usher in more 3D, they aimed for the older demographics, and they understood the importance of third parties. Now we basically have two companies essentially offering the same things where one wants to be up where the other is. So the question becomes, who's going to give us something really different?
 

Squeak

Member
SolidSnakex said:
That's how it's been for most of this gen. Nintendo's basically taken themself out of the picture.

Let's get this straight once and for all (at least in this thread), according to all sources

Nintendo is #2

xbox is #3

http://archive.gamespy.com/icfj/september03/import7/

According to the source in the below link, even in the US where xbox has a slightly larger installed base than Gamecube, GC is leading in software sales. GC: 17.549.167 and xbox: 16.994.961

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14434

open_mouth_ said:
Why do you think Sony has been trying to counter everything Microsoft is doing, despite their best efforts to dismiss the Xbox as a competitor...

Sony is aping XNA, Live, HD support, Voice Chat, price drops, and even Halo!

How is the OpenGL variant Sony is planning, aping XNA? It's not like middleware and APIs was invented by microsoft. Next gen all contestants will need a strong development platform; the power of the machines will simply necessitate it.
Broadband and HD support was planned for PS2 long before xbox launched.
Again, voice chat is not microsofts invention, Dreamcast had it, as well a older consoles in more simple implementations.
Killzone is not a Halo killer, PS2 just needs a good fps.
 

AniHawk

Member
Um, Squeak, I don't think Nintendo's leading in software sales (or the attach ratio would be MUCH higher), and they're #3 WW as of about March-June (pick whichever month you like).

EDIT: Unless you meant worldwide software sales... then it's possible the GC to have sold more games (115 million, I thought it was).
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
The thing is, the GC and X-box are so damn close to each other, it's pretty pointless to argue about it, especially when there really aren't official, simultaneously released numbers to back them up. We get X-box shipped numbers, we compare them with GCs sold two months back, we take estimates and warp them around for our own interest.

The fact of the matter is, X-box is beating the GC by a moderate margin in the US. It's commonly thought that the X-box is kicking the GC's ass in Europe, too, although the race is much, much closer there than most realize. It's definitely closer than in the U.S. I think most people think otherwise because the country whose sales are released most often is the UK, in which the X-box outsells the GC by a pretty significant margin. And we all know the situation in Japan.

I'm still stumped as to why Nintendo is always seemingly ignored by the press. Is it because they don't advertise nearly as much as the competition? Because of their image? I really don't know. But the fact of the matter is, in the console and handheld market of the industry, Nintendo owns the majority of the market. Yeah, they own a monopoly in the handheld division, and yes, their console isn't near 1st place, but still, they have more pieces of hardware sold than their competition in all markets combined do. And software wise, they're definitely #1 (it's pretty well known that they're #2 worldwide in the console market to EA, or so most would believe, but EA's presence in the handheld division is pretty small, and Nintendo's software sales in handhelds are ridiculously high.)

A lot of people would say I'm spinning facts, and that I should include PC as well, but the thing is, consoles and handhelds share many of the same developers, and PC devs tend to develop for the PC, and not for consoles or handhelds. Of course, there are exceptions, but console developers tend to also be present in handhelds, and vice versa. They may be different hardware markets, but they're intertwined with each other, and the PC is separate, pretty much. Which is why I consider games to have two markets: Consoles and handhelds is one, and PC is the other. You could argue that cell phone gaming is another market, but I think that, if it continues to grow, will be connected with the Handheld and console market.

Ok, now I'm just rambling. But, anyways, Nintendo is in a much better position than most people realize, when you look at the video game industry as a whole. That could change with the introduction of the PSP as a handheld, but then again, Nintendo could bounce back with the Revolution and reclaim the home console market. We really don't know. But at the moment, Nintendo sells more hardware and software in the video game industry than anyone else. So why the negative press?
 
GaimeGuy said:
The thing is, the GC and X-box are so damn close to each other, it's pretty pointless to argue about it, especially when there really aren't official, simultaneously released numbers to back them up. We get X-box shipped numbers, we compare them with GCs sold two months back, we take estimates and warp them around for our own interest.

Squeak said:
Do you have at source on that?
Nintendo and microsoft have had trouble proving their claim on the second place before, but last time I checked (recently) most sites agreed that GC was #2 world wide.

Both numbers are as of June 30th. And the source is earnings reports by both companies.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
"Why? According to you Sony's been selling PS2 at a loss for nearly 5years now, clearly they have no regard to cash"

"HAHA, so true."

No, i never said that.

I said Sony hasn't recouped thier initial and subsequent investment in the PS2, not that they weren't making cash on each unit they sell.
 

Squeak

Member
sonycowboy said:
Both numbers are as of June 30th. And the source is earnings reports by both companies.
Can we be sure those numbers mean the same thing (is it shipped, sold or manufactured units?)?
 

Izzy

Banned
OMG DCharlie's avatar is Monty Mole!!! I still play the series on Specc, what with that miners' strike stunt and all.
 

jarrod

Banned
Squeak said:
Can we be sure those numbers mean the same thing (is it shipped, sold or manufactured units?)?
Both are shipped... though Microsoft's shipped numbers to Asia/Pacific are suspicously high (1.5M).

Hey sonycowboy, do have GBA & PS2 total shipments by chance?
 
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