Yeah I revised my post, I hit submit reply too early.
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As bad as things seem for the Wii U, I still think NIntendo can turn things around
- Thread starter Yuripaw
- Start date
Yeah I revised my post, I hit submit reply too early.
I think the term you are looking for is overall value. The xbone and ps4 have the third party support, power, and good online infrastructure. The WiiU is the exact opposite.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
No, YOU are unimpressed with the WiiU at a technological level and don't care what software it has on it as a result.
MOST PEOPLE would buy a console that has enough compelling software to them available on it.
The DS and to a lesser extent the 3DS.
Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick.
I think I got a nose bleed reading that. This is propaganda that puts the North Koreans to shame.
I mean, seriously, this is Crackberry level insanity. Maybe Nintendo should buy Blackberry. The fans could unite and end the Earth.
Usually Right
Banned
It's not just that; the value proposition is instantly visible because people play the games and go "wow this looks better". Wii U doesn't look better unless you never owned a 360 or PS3. It also doesn't play any better than those systems because the controller doesn't offer anything meaningful. So the hardware, taken as a single $300 purchase, is unappealing. Of course SOME people will buy it for games, but I don't see releasing a bunch of good games for it being able to overcome the inherent flaws the system possesses in comparison to its competition. Wii U isn't ever going to have more "good games" than Xbox One and PS4.
outunderthestars
Banned
Agreed. I think the 3DS is one of the worst pieces of gaming hardware ever release by a major company, but love the games that have been released for it.
Weren't the DS and 3DS pretty much in line with the GBA launch/first year numbers?
Sure, they didn't see immense growth right away but the situation wasn't anywhere near like that of the Wii U's.
Also, you are delusional if you think people would have bought as many PS4/XBOs as they did if these consoles hadn't offered such a big improvement in graphics and infrastructure.
moltonasty
Member
Interesting. Still, I feel like the handheld market is different enough that just because Nintendo turned around the momentum on two of their products in the past, it doesn't mean they can for the Wii U. I think that will be WAY harder.
Usually Right
Banned
Not unless it has significantly more "compelling software" than the alternatives. Which it never will. A Wii U with some good games would outsell a PS4 with no games. But that isn't a scenario that is ever going to happen. So with the libraries being equal (at best) why would anybody ever buy a Wii U over a PS4? Because it's slightly cheaper?
If they had good hardware, like Wii was (in its way) you could say "well it has a unique selling point that necessitates its ownership over or in addition to PS4 or Xbox One". You can't say that now and almost certainly never will. Xbox One and PS4 will always have more good games released for it because they don't rely entirely on one publisher to carry them.
shouamabane
Member
Log4girls is a Nintendo fanboy scorned. He/she doth protest way way way too much.
Apophis2036
Banned
I wonder if Nintendo now licencing their products could lead to Bayo 2 being released for PS4 and Xbone if it completely bombs on WiiU ? (under 10k sales like Splinter Cell and Batman Origins). I own a WiiU but at this point I would actually rather play it on my PS4 :/. It would probably sell half a million a piece on those systems and actually claw back some of the development costs Nintendo have put into it, makes business sense...
it's like if you read it too long you get radiation poisoning
PS3?
Dr. Randy Marsh
Member
The "what if Steve Jobs announced the Wii U" fanfiction guy?
What the fuck
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Let's travel back in time to a random GAF thread where GBAs were still selling, the PSP was expected to significantly eat into Nintendos handheld marketshare, and the Ds hadn't begun its rise to heaven
I never mentioned the PS4 or Xbone.
Who here is saying the WiiU is going to outsell the PS4?
Who here is saying one publisher making games will create more "good games" than all third party publishers combined?
You said that people don't buy consoles for the games libraries.
I said, to paraphrase, that that's a steaming pile of horse shit.
Nothing can stop Nintendo now, Ami! Nothing!
Usually Right
Banned
I said some good games can't make up for fundamentally flawed hardware. And I stand by it. It'll be demonstrated when Smash Bros and Mario Kart result in short blips of sales improvements and nothing more. Some people will buy consoles to play specific games, but for most people their hardware purchase is based on the perceived quality of the system. And that's more than just "does it have good games".
The Wii U was the first legitimate "plugs-into-your-TV" console I've bought since the glory days of the SNES. I think it's a pretty good device and don't regret buying it. It's unfortunate that it probably won't get much support since it's selling so poorly.
So it may be the last console I buy too.
I guess there's always the PC.
So it may be the last console I buy too.
I guess there's always the PC.
wasn't that marc^o^? That's not who I am thinking of, although that post was quite reminiscent of the poster I am thinking as well.
This guy got permbanned years ago. God, I wish I could remember. His posts are probably a treasure trove of comedy waiting to be unlocked now that we have historical context on our side.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
And again you're playing this "most people" card when that is simply not true; most people buy the platform that has the games they want on it and it doesn't matter what that consoles technical specification is.
This is demonstrated by every console generation ever released.
Stop saying "most people" when what you mean is you.
YOU don't care what games are available on the WiiU, and cannot see there ever being ANY games on it that would make it worthwhile because you have some arbitrary problem with it on a technical level.
You are not most people.
Usually Right
Banned
My issues with it are primarily software. I'm actually not most people. I could easily end up buying a Wii U just to play Zelda, if it's good. Your argument is that good software can always overcome perceived inferiority with hardware. I disagree. As a value proposition some good games aren't going to make Wii U as attractive as PS4 unless there's never another game released for PS4.
Again, if software was all that counted, Wii, which had the worst software library, wouldn't have sold the most units last generation. Dreamcast wouldn't have been a failure when it had a ridiculously good lineup. NES would have outsold Master System in Europe. Etc.
To his defense though, judging by the sales of WiiU, vast majority of people out there (especially in gaming demographic) indeed do not care what games are available on the WiiU.
I'm sure they've considered it. The issue with it has always been how to allow communication between kids, and (i assume) the problems of forcing monthly payments/microstransactions onto them as well. I know most over 18's that love Pokemon would love to see it happen, but it just doesn't seem like a feasible genre for the core Pokemon audience.
Chie Satonaka
Member
I think this is true, but I think that there's much more to this than technical specifications. The entire thing has been mismanaged.
Jesus my brain is full of fuck.
okay? what does that have to do with the fact that the DS/3DS weren't doing anywhere near as bad as the Wii U?
You are right it's horse shit, it's just that people just don't give a shit about Nintendo's games on the Wii U.
What does this even mean?
It means I would have liked it if the Wii U succeeded because it seemed like a nice console that offered something different from the PC that I already own. It's not succeeding though, so it's back to PC.
I think many people (including myself) have simply outgrown Nintendo. Most of their catalog is no longer competitive nor difficult. I think they lost me as a fan during the Wii era when they started dumbing down their games. I have always looked to Nintendo consoles for local play and something just doesn't feel right when one person is using a different controller than everyone else.
To bring me back they would have to start giving more of a challenge in their single player offerings, stop dumbing down their competitive games, lose the controller gimmicks, and implement a better online infastructure.
To bring me back they would have to start giving more of a challenge in their single player offerings, stop dumbing down their competitive games, lose the controller gimmicks, and implement a better online infastructure.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I don't see them remotely turning the Wii U around, but they'll probably be fine as a company in the long-run if they seriously learn from the experience of this generation.
As much as I like him in certain areas, I don't think Iwata's that great a fit anymore.
As much as I like him in certain areas, I don't think Iwata's that great a fit anymore.
Shaqiri1287
Banned
I don't think it's reasonable to think that Nintendo can turn it around. The only product that is making Nintendo money is close to the end of it's life cycle, and Nintendo found out the hard way that tablet and smart phone gaming have already made people less willing to buy dedicated handheld gaming unit's for 200+ dollars. Their next handheld device is going to be released at a time where mobile gaming has never seen so many competitors vying for consumers time and money.
Wii U is a dead console. I own one, but it will only be used 1-2 times a year for Mario and Zelda. They are going to have less and less money from 3DS sales, and the Wii U will continue to be a complete disaster which will result in Nintendo bleeding even more money, but at an accelerated pace, because of the 3DS being at the end of it's life cycle.
Wii U is a dead console. I own one, but it will only be used 1-2 times a year for Mario and Zelda. They are going to have less and less money from 3DS sales, and the Wii U will continue to be a complete disaster which will result in Nintendo bleeding even more money, but at an accelerated pace, because of the 3DS being at the end of it's life cycle.
"Decent number of units" and "some kind of profit" are both unrealistic pipe dreams for Wii U.
Nintendo has seemingly made 12 million consoles and 12 million gamepads, and sold less than 6 million, at a rate that's dropping. "Business as usual" should take more than two years to get rid of this excess, if the console even survives that long. Production on the console has apparently shut down. For reference, Nintendo said that the GameCube's 22 million was far below their standards for failure (even though GameCube was profitable, 22 million as purely a hardware number was really bad).
Wii U hardware was made at a loss (considering it's current price). Costs will never come down, because the consoles are already made. Wii U games cost a lot to make, and they're not making their money back on a 6 million userbase. The 3DS hardware is more profitable, it's games are cheaper to make, and they sell better, and even that can't hold Nintendo's head above the water with the Wii U dragging them down.
Iwata needs to admit that the Wii U is dead and there's no saving it, the only question is how it ends, but he's lying to the faithful in order to try and bring about the best possible ending for Nintendo. He's hoping that Mario Kart and Smash Bros will make people buy the doomed system at full price, and then it can die. That way we all lose, but Nintendo doesn't lose quite as badly, which is what's best for Nintendo (and the faithful will probably agree, that's what's best for them too).
I agree. It's been out on the market for now 14 months, going on 15 next month. System is still collapsing in sales everywhere. How can anything turn it around?
It can't.
It's essentally a machine to play Nintendo games. These games may be mostly excellent, but it's too much of an expensive proposition to need to fork out $300 for the privilage of playing one or two Mario games a year.
If they don't want to compete with Sony and MS with a more powerful 'hardcore' machine, then I think they need to look towards offering something for $100 that will stream games much like OnLive.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I'm actually expecting Nintendo to go 3rd party by the end of this gen.
They had a good run, but unfortunately they didn't evolve fast enough to maintain relevance in today's interconnected world.
They had a good run, but unfortunately they didn't evolve fast enough to maintain relevance in today's interconnected world.
Chie Satonaka
Member
I don't understand who he's supposed to admit that to. Investors aren't going to want to hear that. They're going to want to hear that the company is doing whatever they can to get as much as they can out of the WiiU. Nintendo isn't likely to release a mid generation console. People who have bought the system aren't going to want to hear that, myself included. I paid 350 bones for this thing. I want the system to last an entire lifecycle. It doesn't matter if it's a Nintendo only system or not.
What good does admitting defeat do anyone?
Nintendo is not Sega.
Nintendo is not Sega.
Nintendo is not Sega.
Usually Right
Banned
Yet.
There's no logical reason to assume Nintendo will never release software for other platforms. Just because it's not happening this year doesn't mean it'll never happen.
Dangoesforth
Member
Thing is, Nintendo probably has the most lucrative IP out of all of the major players. Just needs to be managed more effectively, they can turn it around. At least I hope they do.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
You're right, where Sega somewhat managed to adapt for their new role, I'm expecting Nintendo's first forays into 3rd party business to be rife with failures from them not understanding the hardwares they will be forced to develop for.
Chie Satonaka
Member
There's no reason for them to.
The reason I illustrated Sega is because Sega was mismanaged for YEARS. Their hardware after the Genesis was a joke, and as good as the Dreamcast is/was, it couldn't compete with the Juggernaut of the Playstation 2. This is a completely different situation than Nintendo has had, where they misfired with WiiU.
Additionally, Nintendo does still have a successful portable console. It's more likely that Nintendo goes portables only than going third party.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I wonder how many people were actually around for GC and especially those who posted here on GAF. They weren't good times. In hindsight it's easy to forget this, but there were loads of games that didn't make it to the system. Once it started losing support, it was a downward spiral and the last 2 - 3 years of the system were extremely sparse with game releases. To put it bluntly, if you were a Nintendo fan it was emotionally painful to see this happen. About 2 years after launch, I remember when the only big games on the horizon were RE4 and Zelda:TP which were both heavily delayed. The first few years were great, but the difference there was that the games coming out were on par with what was on the other systems. They were new games and something to get excited about whereas the same time period for Wii U has instead been ports (and old ones at that) from last gen.
This isn't to say that Wii U can't be turned around and be a decent system, but I haven't seen anything from Nintendo to indicate this. They really only have one option to make Wii U a more attractive system and that will require them keeping the gamepad. At this point, it isn't a good idea for them to drop it. Here's what people need to consider.
1. Amazon is rumored to be releasing a micro-console. We have no idea of what the specs are for this machine, but I'm going to guess that it will be closer in power to Wii U than PS4 & XB1.
2. There's a good chance Nintendo may merge their console and handheld architecture. This may not happen, but it's one way of interpreting their new "platform" talk recently.
3. The tablet enables ports from DS & 3DS.
As mentioned, there are rumors Amazon will release a microconsole and that it will likely run mobile games at high end specs. Controller standards have now been set and games being developed with them in mind will start trickling out soon. Wii U is in a good position hardware wise for ports of these games. The gamepad features every control option available for mobile games and should have enough power to run the games at high end settings for a few years at least. This is an area I think Nintendo should be addressing when seeking third party support. They can probably still continue to get the CoD's and possibly Madden, but the AAA games PC, PS4 & XB1 get won't even be considered. At least this is an area Nintendo can seek content from though and it's content that may not be available on PX4 & XB1. In other words, it differentiates Wii U's library from the competition even more because they will not only have exclusive first party games, but third party ones as well.
The other area I think Nintendo should consider is remaking older 3DS games for Wii U as well as developing future games for both systems jointly. Not only should this start preparing people mentally for the new platform that could be coming, but it should enable Nintendo to release a wider variety of games. It's already been discussed a lot before, but essentially it's something Nintendo has alluded to (merging their handheld and console developers) and it as it stands right now, a lot of their games are repeated across the two different systems anyway. They're just given different names. Ex. SM3DL/SM3DW, NSMB2/NSMBU, DKCR3D/DKCR2, etc.
These ideas seem pretty obvious and apparent, but as Micheal Pachter has said, Nintendo is "kind of blissfully ignorant that they're not doing well. It's almost like they're the only ones who don't know it." So to me, these seem like realistic, logical steps Nintendo could take to turn the Wii U around, but there's also an incredibly high chance they'll repeat what they did with GC and not find a solution. I've been here before w/the GC and it sucks.
Usually Right
Banned
Apart from the fact the portable system business can't possibly survive past this generation to anywhere near the level it has previously.
They've already talked about licensing their ip to other people. The idea they'll try to find a way to put their characters in other platforms isn't far fetched to me. Certainly not this year or next, but 5 years from now? I don't see how Nintendo can still be making hardware. They're too far behind everyone else.
nope, not for me. The WiiU is toast, and I say this as the biggest Nintendo fanboy this board ever had. If anything it will be sad to see such incredible games like SM3DW, Smash, Pikmin 3 and MK8 getting their amazing sales potential dragged down because of the console's flop
but it teached Nintendo to think long and hard about their next console, and all signs are pointing out it will be a radical tuyrnaround for them, both in philosophy and tech. I love my WiiU, it's going to be my only gaming device this generation (along with 3DS and PC), but I already cannot wait for what they're cooking up for the future. It's make it or break it, and Iwata seems to have acknowledged it. God, it will be glorious
but it teached Nintendo to think long and hard about their next console, and all signs are pointing out it will be a radical tuyrnaround for them, both in philosophy and tech. I love my WiiU, it's going to be my only gaming device this generation (along with 3DS and PC), but I already cannot wait for what they're cooking up for the future. It's make it or break it, and Iwata seems to have acknowledged it. God, it will be glorious
Punchy4486
Banned
Only way to get Wii Us on store shelves.